Steve Nash Discussion: Retiring; Lakers Disabled Exception

Re: Steve Nash Discussion: hopes to play in Playoffs (149)

Postby Weezy on Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:21 pm

lakersyunowin wrote:retirement time.

it's not even the production alone. i always saw this dude as a guy who galvanizes others around him and leads. doesn't shy away from big moments. i saw nothing of that this year. maybe a glimmer...once.


It's crazy isn't it? What happened to the firey old gamer Nash? Directing the offense, leading his guys, making brilliant passes making the game easy for everyone, playing with his fire in his eyes and blood gushing from his nose? Of course he's older now, but man it's like he's not even the same person, like he's just trying to blend in and be a shooter. I don't expect him to be that same old guy exactly at 39, but not even a little bit of that guy?
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: hopes to play in Playoffs (149)

Postby hollywood swinger on Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:22 pm

borri wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:It's going to be a rough next two years if he's our starting PG. 10 million to be put on a minute limitation under 30 minutes is just the wrong way to go about spending money and taking up capspace.

This.

It's time to let go for Steve Nash.


Yeah, I'd be pretty happy if Nash decides to retire this offseason. Beyond wishful thinking.


just a question. were any of you 3 bashing me for saying nash was done earlier in season and not a starter in league anymore ?
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: hopes to play in Playoffs (149)

Postby The Rock on Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:34 pm

^ he was playing well before the recent injury in March. Nobody thought he'd be impacted this much by injuries.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: hopes to play in Playoffs (149)

Postby Doc Brown on Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:34 pm

hollywood swinger wrote:
borri wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:It's going to be a rough next two years if he's our starting PG. 10 million to be put on a minute limitation under 30 minutes is just the wrong way to go about spending money and taking up capspace.

This.

It's time to let go for Steve Nash.


Yeah, I'd be pretty happy if Nash decides to retire this offseason. Beyond wishful thinking.


just a question. were any of you 3 bashing me for saying nash was done earlier in season and not a starter in league anymore ?


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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: hopes to play in Playoffs (149)

Postby lakersyunowin on Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:39 pm

Weezy wrote:
lakersyunowin wrote:retirement time.

it's not even the production alone. i always saw this dude as a guy who galvanizes others around him and leads. doesn't shy away from big moments. i saw nothing of that this year. maybe a glimmer...once.


It's crazy isn't it? What happened to the firey old gamer Nash? Directing the offense, leading his guys, making brilliant passes making the game easy for everyone, playing with his fire in his eyes and blood gushing from his nose? Of course he's older now, but man it's like he's not even the same person, like he's just trying to blend in and be a shooter. I don't expect him to be that same old guy exactly at 39, but not even a little bit of that guy?

maybe the lifestyle got to him. sporting that stylish haircut, wearing those suits. he didn't seem to care about that in phoenix, that's for sure.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: hopes to play in Playoffs (149)

Postby BuzzerBeater on Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:44 pm

Finwë wrote:I wasn't really expecting much, I assumed he'd be kinda rusty and not really effective.
I liked that he was agressive looking for his shot to start, but unfortunately it just wasn't falling, uncharacteristically so.

I don't think we should be talking retirement yet. His contract is kinda ridiculous, yet, but when healthy the guy is still a very good PG.
The problem is staying healthy, and his back does concern me, but we can't say his first injury was an age-related thing or something like that, it was just a freak injury. We can't know what we would've looked like if he hadn't been sidelined for that much time to start the season. It's likely that his chemistry with others and leadership (something lakersyunowin was talking about) would've been much better and effective, not to mention that his own individual production would've probably been better too.
The personnel doesn't really suit him, we lack shooters, we clog the lane, we play a slow pace..
Maybe we should trade him, but I don't think he should retire, and I'd bet in a team with personnel more suited to his skillset (like his previous one) he'd look a lot more like the Steve Nash we all are familiar with.
He said himself that aside from the injuries and their unfortunate consequences he's actually felt very well, and that adapting to the team was the bigger struggle.


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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: hopes to play in Playoffs (149)

Postby Nashty Gal on Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:45 pm

I still believe in Nashty
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: hopes to play in Playoffs (149)

Postby Armani on Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:51 pm

Meh... mostly overreaction from an injury game. He might not play well this series, but should be fine and healthy next year. Limiting minutes won't be a challenge, if Blake plays the way he did this year. Limit Nash to 25 mins in the regular season, and move it up in the postseason.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: hopes to play in Playoffs (149)

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:55 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote::man10: @ people who thinks Nash makes us worse


Yet you're the one that thinks Kobe makes us worse....

Keep trying..... :man10:


How obtuse do you have to be to repeatedly ignore my posts explaining that I do NOT think we're better without Kobe, but that we're better defensively. It seems most of your posts hinge on fabricating a bunch of non sense just so you have something to say.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: hopes to play in Playoffs (149)

Postby BuzzerBeater on Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:56 pm

Armani wrote:Meh... mostly overreaction from an injury game. He might not play well this series, but should be fine and healthy next year. Limiting minutes won't be a challenge, if Blake plays the way he did this year. Limit Nash to 25 mins in the regular season, and move it up in the postseason.


+1

We have problems at SG (without Kobe), SF and PF.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: hopes to play in Playoffs (149)

Postby Weezy on Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:58 pm

Armani wrote:Meh... mostly overreaction from an injury game. He might not play well this series, but should be fine and healthy next year. Limiting minutes won't be a challenge, if Blake plays the way he did this year. Limit Nash to 25 mins in the regular season, and move it up in the postseason.


It's not overreaction, he hasn't been fine and healthy half of this season. Even when he's played most of the time he hasn't looked like himself. He had some great games this season, he had some good ones, some ok ones, and some really, really bad ones. I see nothing based on his play and health this season that leads me to believe he will be fine and healthy next season, when he's even OLDER. And we're talking about 'Antoni as coach here, he's not going to play Nash 25 mpg, he's just not. I'm not counting on Blake next season either, we need to get a starting guard and make Nash a backup, get a better quality young backup that CAN allow Nash to play much fewer minutes, or Nash needs to really think about calling it a career. Now I see why Kobe says he doesn't want to play as a diminished, aging role player, it's sad to see once great players go out like this.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: hopes to play in Playoffs (149)

Postby borri on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:02 pm

hollywood swinger wrote:
borri wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:It's going to be a rough next two years if he's our starting PG. 10 million to be put on a minute limitation under 30 minutes is just the wrong way to go about spending money and taking up capspace.

This.

It's time to let go for Steve Nash.


Yeah, I'd be pretty happy if Nash decides to retire this offseason. Beyond wishful thinking.


just a question. were any of you 3 bashing me for saying nash was done earlier in season and not a starter in league anymore ?


If you want, i can start bashing you now. :man12:
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: hopes to play in Playoffs (149)

Postby BuzzerBeater on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:10 pm

Weezy wrote:
Armani wrote:Meh... mostly overreaction from an injury game. He might not play well this series, but should be fine and healthy next year. Limiting minutes won't be a challenge, if Blake plays the way he did this year. Limit Nash to 25 mins in the regular season, and move it up in the postseason.


It's not overreaction, he hasn't been fine and healthy half of this season. Even when he's played most of the time he hasn't looked like himself. He had some great games this season, he had some good ones, some ok ones, and some really, really bad ones. I see nothing based on his play and health this season that leads me to believe he will be fine and healthy next season, when he's even OLDER. And we're talking about 'Antoni as coach here, he's not going to play Nash 25 mpg, he's just not. I'm not counting on Blake next season either, we need to get a starting guard and make Nash a backup, get a better quality young backup that CAN allow Nash to play much fewer minutes, or Nash needs to really think about calling it a career. Now I see why Kobe says he doesn't want to play as a diminished, aging role player, it's sad to see once great players go out like this.


Gimme names...Vasquez? Rubio? Holiday? Lawson? maybe Calderon? i wish we could hire Curry.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: hopes to play in Playoffs (149)

Postby SpencerHarrison on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:13 pm

Another game of bad shooting, and ugly weird looking half court play. He had a couple of decent passes sprinkled in, but Nash just hasn't played winning basketball for the Lakers all season long. I'm sick of hearing announcers talk about how legendary Nash's shooting is. Fine, great. Then hit a shot.

I would rather see Morris on D at the point, and Nash sitting. He's playing losing basketball, end of story.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: hopes to play in Playoffs (149)

Postby Weezy on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:17 pm

BuzzerBeater wrote:
Weezy wrote:
Armani wrote:Meh... mostly overreaction from an injury game. He might not play well this series, but should be fine and healthy next year. Limiting minutes won't be a challenge, if Blake plays the way he did this year. Limit Nash to 25 mins in the regular season, and move it up in the postseason.


It's not overreaction, he hasn't been fine and healthy half of this season. Even when he's played most of the time he hasn't looked like himself. He had some great games this season, he had some good ones, some ok ones, and some really, really bad ones. I see nothing based on his play and health this season that leads me to believe he will be fine and healthy next season, when he's even OLDER. And we're talking about 'Antoni as coach here, he's not going to play Nash 25 mpg, he's just not. I'm not counting on Blake next season either, we need to get a starting guard and make Nash a backup, get a better quality young backup that CAN allow Nash to play much fewer minutes, or Nash needs to really think about calling it a career. Now I see why Kobe says he doesn't want to play as a diminished, aging role player, it's sad to see once great players go out like this.


Gimme names...Vasquez? Rubio? Holiday? Lawson? maybe Calderon? i wish we could hire Curry.


At the moment, I can't, because the playoffs still have to play out, we have to see who does what, and who becomes available because of it, and what teams would be willing to take Pau, what free agent backup PG's would be willing to take whatever MLE we have, mini, part of full, or full.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: hopes to play in Playoffs (149)

Postby Armani on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:34 pm

Weezy wrote:
Armani wrote:Meh... mostly overreaction from an injury game. He might not play well this series, but should be fine and healthy next year. Limiting minutes won't be a challenge, if Blake plays the way he did this year. Limit Nash to 25 mins in the regular season, and move it up in the postseason.


It's not overreaction, he hasn't been fine and healthy half of this season. Even when he's played most of the time he hasn't looked like himself. He had some great games this season, he had some good ones, some ok ones, and some really, really bad ones. I see nothing based on his play and health this season that leads me to believe he will be fine and healthy next season, when he's even OLDER. And we're talking about 'Antoni as coach here, he's not going to play Nash 25 mpg, he's just not. I'm not counting on Blake next season either, we need to get a starting guard and make Nash a backup, get a better quality young backup that CAN allow Nash to play much fewer minutes, or Nash needs to really think about calling it a career. Now I see why Kobe says he doesn't want to play as a diminished, aging role player, it's sad to see once great players go out like this.


Age does matter, but Kobe this year was better than he had been in the past two. I distinctly remember Nash schooling guys like Deron midway through the season, too. I didn't really envision him being his all star Phoenix self. I mean... this guy was really only required to be our 3rd or 4th best player - and he's played that way when healthy. Just move back a few pages in the thread, and you'll just see praises about his money shot/decision making.

As far as D'Antoni controlling minutes or not... out of our control, but he's generally made adjustments this year when he felt something was working. I would love to have him off the bench next season, in any case. Sort of like Andre Miller is with the Nuggets, ya know? I can totally see Nash filling in that role.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: hopes to play in Playoffs (149)

Postby Weezy on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:41 pm

Kobe's a different breed though, and even though he was in his 17th season, he's still 34, not 39, big difference. Kobe's played more basketball in minutes overall than tons of all time greats, but Nash has played just as long when you count college and take into account his age. I just don't see Nash getting back to anything close to what he was at 40 and 41. Andre Miller is a good example, but IMO he's a little craftier on defense, has more bulk and knows how to use it on defense AND on offense to back guys down, Nash doesn't have that ability. Miller has ALWAYS played without real athleticism and been successful, I know Nash has for the most part too, but again 37 vs 39, and I take Miller's D over Nash's.

That said, yeah I wouldn't mind Nash off the bench controlling the team, being a scorer and playmaker like Miller, but man 9 mil is a lot for a backup PG. We'd have to find a better starter too, and that's gonna be tough.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby 432J on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:43 pm

missed way too many open looks

those are shots he would always make in the past. i can remember clearly him sinking those shots time after time against us in the playoffs. i'll cut him some slack because of his age and the time he missed but he's gotta start hitting those to give us just some chance of winning
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby kblo247 on Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:58 pm

Problem as I see it was that we started out the game trying to play pnr aka Nash ball. Rather the team likes it or not, Dantoni likes it or not, or message boards like admitting it .... Kobe dictates inside out to start games. He generally spends the first few possessions feeding the post or posting himself. He doesn't run around using Pau or Dwight as his personal turnstiles to start off because he's too smart for that. He knows very well that you keep the bigs honest and then look for your shot and the outside attack with pnr dribble drives. This team did the opposite, they posted secondly after the outside pnr mucked up the floor to start and dug them a hole. That's a setback of not having Kobe

Second issue is that we simply need better shots. I'm not mad at him for taking the shots he took totally, but I'm mad that he didnt convert more of them or draw fouls as he took some horrible floor balance shots without guys between the 3pt line and rim. Fact is both Steve's need to put up around 30 shots to keep teams honest without Kobe. The thing is without Kobe you have no bail outs, no one who can get to the rim and finish among the trees, no one who can draw fouls, and that means you must have floor balance. If you're taking the shots he took off the pnr he has to either hit them or make damn sure Metta and Blake are between the 3pt line and the Spurs basket because e Spurs aren't going to be in a scramble like 3. Or 4 of them would be off instinct even if its Kobe firing a 27ft fade. They just don't generate the same respect for multiple guys to run at them and that means you will be run at.

Last issue is Meeks should have started period. Is just always mixed messages. The guy with back and hip problems just comes back to start, when Pau was made to come for the bench? The team was what 5-0 without him to close the year in must win games and versus the spurs, so you bring him off the bench and let him attack Joseph/Neal while also getting Jamsion and Clark involved. Meeks should have started. He did just fine vs Green the other day. He should have started because he's quicker and better than Nash on D, as there's always effort like Sahsa. We were also 5-0 without Nash to end the year, in all must win games, 6-0 if you take away Sac where he hardly played

Nash should have come off the bench . We were out scored 10 to 40. He should have come off that bench just like Manu. Played 5 minutes stretches, and 10 minute halfs like Manu. He should have play made for that second unit like Manu. Dantoni just doesn't have the balls of Pop and Nash's pride is too big unlike Manus to take one for the team like they tried to force Pau to do early this year. This team has never done well Pau and Nash both starting, but Pau has been the one told to go to the bench and everything else, but its funny we are over 500 with Pau, over 500 with Kobe, over 500 with Metta, over 500 with Blake, over 500 with Dwight, and below 500 with Nash this year
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: hopes to play in Playoffs (149)

Postby LTLakerFan on Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:06 pm

lakersyunowin wrote:i know rust from injury, but...

where's the nash who was bloodied, one eye swollen completely shut, still closing out games

we have this hollywood froufrou version who seems devoid of passion, heart, and soul...


Bad "but" IMO. Your first sentence said it all. Rust. It's pretty amazing he played as long as he did considering he could hardly run to get ready and back to the team. He got his looks just couldn't drop them.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: hopes to play in Playoffs (149)

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:38 pm

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote::man10: @ people who thinks Nash makes us worse


Yet you're the one that thinks Kobe makes us worse....

Keep trying..... :man10:


How obtuse do you have to be to repeatedly ignore my posts explaining that I do NOT think we're better without Kobe, but that we're better defensively. It seems most of your posts hinge on fabricating a bunch of non sense just so you have something to say.


Well.... you're right... I do ignore most of your posts... My mistake is that I'm not "ignoring" all of them.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:48 pm

Two things I saw from Nash today....

First, he's way past his prime. Most of what we saw out there getting "healthy" won't help.

Second, the pick and roll, undersized point guard, approach in the playoffs has never been successful. Even his Phoenix teams got bounced by teams that could game plan for that offensive philosophy and Pop did it to him when the teams he was on were a lot better than this one and he was a lot younger. I don't like that type of offense at all and guys like Nash and Paul have gone nowhere running it in 7 game series.

He missed some easy shots for him (well if you look at his averages anyway). The defense was about what I expected as well.... All in all he played as good as can be expected from a guy with a hamstring injury at his age after 2 weeks of sitting....
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby SpencerHarrison on Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:55 pm

I remember being so stoked to get Nash. I thought a player that good and skilled could ONLY help. Even when things got bizarre and the losses piled up, I still regarded him as "Dfish on Crack" and that was all we needed. But now? I just see him as a liability. He brings the offense down, and it becomes a bunch of [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] nonsense in the key. Make a pass into the post. Set yourself at the 3 line. DONE. Enough of the intercepted feeds inside and dangerous baseline dribbles. When Nash goes baseline, 3/4 times it's a turnover. Blake? I expect 2 points.

And all I hear the commentators say during the games is how mind blowing the Spurs are, and how great Nash is at the PnR. Meanwhile, the guy who actually makes this team win games? Pau? Nary a word on his near back to back triple doubles.

It's crazy. I wish Nash had stayed injured. I'd rather roll with Blake, Pau and D12 triangle win or lose.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:03 pm

SpencerHarrison wrote:I remember being so stoked to get Nash. I thought a player that good and skilled could ONLY help. Even when things got bizarre and the losses piled up, I still regarded him as "Dfish on Crack" and that was all we needed. But now? I just see him as a liability. He brings the offense down, and it becomes a bunch of [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] nonsense in the key. Make a pass into the post. Set yourself at the 3 line. DONE. Enough of the intercepted feeds inside and dangerous baseline dribbles. When Nash goes baseline, 3/4 times it's a turnover. Blake? I expect 2 points.

And all I hear the commentators say during the games is how mind blowing the Spurs are, and how great Nash is at the PnR. Meanwhile, the guy who actually makes this team win games? Pau? Nary a word on his near back to back triple doubles.

It's crazy. I wish Nash had stayed injured. I'd rather roll with Blake, Pau and D12 triangle win or lose.


I can agree on Nash.... but a triple double from Pau is a statistical win and a loss on the court IMO.... and especially so when Kobe is out. If Pau is leading your team in assists when Kobe's out that is not a good thing. He consistently passes out of deep post position to our Community College level players on the perimeter for 3 point shots... That isn't smart IMO... what he should do, as the most gifted post player in the league, is attack and either score or draw fouls.... those two results are far better for our team than another shot attempt from Morris or Meeks....
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby last stand on Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:36 pm

we have to set screens just for this guy to get up the court. i really hope he retires. that way we can get some athleticism at PG and hopefully SF as well
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