#NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby Weezy on Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:13 pm

Yes Roos, I agree. Again, thrilled to have Dwight, he IS a franchise player, he is absolutely a top player in the league, but he hasn't proven to me to be that guy that has the drive and will to win like Kobe has, so I can't say he's better. I can't say you can't debate it because Dwight is in his prime and seemingly continues to improve, but he took his team to one Finals and while that was quite an accomplishment, he did kind of get contained by Pau Gasol that Finals, sometimes even downright shut down by him.
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby John3:16 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:14 pm

lakers_09tv wrote:1. Lebron
2. Chris Paul
3. Dwight Howard
4. Durant
5. Wade (I have him over Durant when healthy.)

Rose in the top 5 is laughable to me.


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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby jlkr on Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:19 pm

D12 at 3 is reasonable. No one impacts the defensive end like him. Far and away the most dominant defender in the league. That alone is worth a lot.

Kobe has declined athletically. That's he still as high as 6 at 34 is testament to his skills and his fitness. But he is declining, just no way to get away from that. If the team wins at least one title during the two years left on his contract, I won't be surprised if he hangs up his sneakers at that point.
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby lakers_09tv on Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:24 pm

Weezy wrote:
lakers_09tv wrote:1. Lebron
2. Chris Paul
3. Dwight Howard
4. Durant
5. Wade (I have him over Durant when healthy.)

Rose in the top 5 is laughable to me.


Do you have Kobe at #20 or even lower still?

He is somewhere in the 6 to 9 range. Rose, Westbrook and Kobe are all around the same level. The difference isn't that great between them.
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:28 pm

I understand why you guys don't like my list and it would be foolish of me to expect a lot of people to agree with me since this is a Lakers forum, however I think a lot of you form your opinions of certain players by reading this website instead of finding more impartial sources and that ends up skewing your perspective. That's why my list looks so ridiculous to you guys because you don't expose yourselves to people who won't always think the same way.
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby Weezy on Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:34 pm

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:I understand why you guys don't like my list and it would be foolish of me to expect a lot of people to agree with me since this is a Lakers forum, however I think a lot of you form your opinions of certain players by reading this website instead of finding more impartial sources and that ends up skewing your perspective. That's why my list looks so ridiculous to you guys because you don't expose yourselves to people who won't always think the same way.


Uh...yeah, that or the people that don't agree with you actually watch tons of NBA games and see these players with their own eyes and judge them based on that as well as stats. I watch tons of NBA games, as many as I can really, not just the Lakers, my not agreeing with your list has nothing to do with me being a Laker fan, it has to do with me watching games and having a different take on the top 10 list. I really don't have a problem with ESPN's list even. They have Nash and Pau in the top 20, I think that's fair, and they have Dwight and Kobe in the top 6, I think that's fair.
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:38 pm

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:I understand why you guys don't like my list and it would be foolish of me to expect a lot of people to agree with me since this is a Lakers forum, however I think a lot of you form your opinions of certain players by reading this website instead of finding more impartial sources and that ends up skewing your perspective. That's why my list looks so ridiculous to you guys because you don't expose yourselves to people who won't always think the same way.


Oh dear god...... Really?... I've been "exposed" to a lot of basketball and a lot of BS.... and I know the difference.

You're list IS ridiculous unless your slotting players for a Jr High Fantasy league......
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby lakers_09tv on Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:42 pm

His list isn't that ridiculous. If you go on realgm a lot of 10 lists look like his. The players in his top 5 look accurate to me. I don't necessarily agree with the order that they are in.
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:48 pm

Weezy wrote:
JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:I understand why you guys don't like my list and it would be foolish of me to expect a lot of people to agree with me since this is a Lakers forum, however I think a lot of you form your opinions of certain players by reading this website instead of finding more impartial sources and that ends up skewing your perspective. That's why my list looks so ridiculous to you guys because you don't expose yourselves to people who won't always think the same way.


Uh...yeah, that or the people that don't agree with you actually watch tons of NBA games and see these players with their own eyes and judge them based on that as well as stats. I watch tons of NBA games, as many as I can really, not just the Lakers, my not agreeing with your list has nothing to do with me being a Laker fan, it has to do with me watching games and having a different take on the top 10 list. I really don't have a problem with ESPN's list even. They have Nash and Pau in the top 20, I think that's fair, and they have Dwight and Kobe in the top 6, I think that's fair.


Just because someone watches a lot of NBA games doesn't mean they understand the game any better than someone who watches fewer games. Some people pick up things you may have never even noticed or thought about even after years of watching the game. I learn something new nearly every day about players and I don't arrogantly mock what other people say if I don't agree with it. I look more into what they are saying and try to understand if it makes sense.
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby Weezy on Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:49 pm

If you're referring to me, I don't remember mocking anything you said, arrogantly or otherwise.
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:52 pm

I wasn't referring to anyone in particular, although I did get ridiculed pretty badly in this thread after I posted my list :man10:
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby Weezy on Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:55 pm

Well, I for one didn't do any mocking, I simply disagreed with you.
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby thkthebest on Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:13 pm

Weezy wrote:Wow. Wade, Dirk, Love, Westbrook, all better than Kobe? Come on, especially Dirk, he stunk it up most of last season. Paul, Dwight, and Rose are debatable, LeBron and Durant are IMO not debatable, better than Kobe at this point. Dwight's great, he really is, but he had some stinkers last season, very low scoring games, which you never get from Kobe. Until I see Dwight be the man of our team, a guy who can close games with his limited offense and poor free throw shooting, I'm not calling him better than Kobe. And as for your comment that if anyone thinks Kobe is better than Dwight they are a Kobe-first fan and not really a Laker fan is just insulting and I really don't see what you're trying to accomplish with a comment like that other than bait people. Aldridge right behind Kobe? Please. Kobe was the 2nd leading scorer in the NBA last year, he's still a guy that can carry you to tons of wins, he's still elite, and there still aren't many players that can do all he does.


Personally, I think you are judging others a lot more harshly and giving Kobe a pass, which I can understand because he IS Kobe Bryant, but I still disagree on a few things.

For example, Dirk had a bad start to the season...like almost everyone in the entire league did. He had a great last 2/3 of the season though.

Last 44 games: 23.7 ppg, 57.7 TS%, 7.2 rpg, 2.2 apg, 2.0 topg in 34.5 mpg.

Meanwhile, Kobe stunk it up for 2 straight months, and people are conveniently forgetting that. Kobe shot 38.7 FG% in March. In February, he barely shot over 40% (40.2 FG%) and averaged over 4 turnovers per game. In those two months, he averaged 50.0 TS%. If Dirk's going to get flack for stinking it up for 22 games, Kobe should get just as much flack for stinking it up even more for 30 games.
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby thkthebest on Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:15 pm

Since Nash and Pau were brought up, I actually have Nash around 12-14. Pau is also in my top 20. Same with Bynum.

Oh, and just because I know many CLers are going to disagree, Rondo is not in my top 20. :)
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby Weezy on Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:24 pm

I'm not giving Kobe a pass, he did have long slumps and he did have bad playoff games. I said I really don't have an issue with ESPN ranking him 6th, though I still believe he's 3rd behind LeBron and Durant, just my opinion based on value to team and the fact that he's still one of few guys that have proven they can close the deal and win championships.
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:26 pm

That's why I think it's pretty strange that ESPN completely shat on Dirk just because he started off poorly even though he stepped his game up in the second half of the season, mean while guys like Deron and Rose were somehow rewarded even though Deron mailed in the season and Rose wasn't even playing. Dirk dropping from #5 to #11 makes no sense.
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby thkthebest on Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:36 pm

Weezy wrote:I'm not giving Kobe a pass, he did have long slumps and he did have bad playoff games. I said I really don't have an issue with ESPN ranking him 6th, though I still believe he's 3rd behind LeBron and Durant, just my opinion based on value to team and the fact that he's still one of few guys that have proven they can close the deal and win championships.

I know what you mean. Kobe has been killing other teams for so long that it's hard to doubt him. My ranking for Kobe is more of a "mix" between what my heart believes and my head thinks.

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:That's why I think it's pretty strange that ESPN completely shat on Dirk just because he started off poorly even though he stepped his game up in the second half of the season, mean while guys like Deron and Rose were somehow rewarded even though Deron mailed in the season and Rose wasn't even playing. Dirk dropping from #5 to #11 makes no sense.

It's definitely strange. I think a lot of people rank players on what they "can" do as opposed to what they "did" do...if that makes sense. Even then, I still don't fully understand. Dirk just sort of goes unnoticed.
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby Finwë on Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:04 am

lakers_09tv wrote:1. Lebron
2. Chris Paul
3. Dwight Howard
4. Durant
5. Wade (I have him over Durant when healthy.)

Rose in the top 5 is laughable to me.

/facepalm.
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby Finwë on Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:05 am

Weezy wrote:
lakers_09tv wrote:1. Lebron
2. Chris Paul
3. Dwight Howard
4. Durant
5. Wade (I have him over Durant when healthy.)

Rose in the top 5 is laughable to me.


Do you have Kobe at #20 or even lower still?

Weezy wrote:
lakers_09tv wrote:Kobe is done as an elite player in this league. I doubt he is even in the top 20 anymore.


http://www.clublakers.com/lakers-gameday/sat-lakers-hornets-predictions-comments-t133810-200.html

:man10: Oh boy that's a good one, I think I'll bookmark this page and save that one for come playoff time. Not top 20, talk about an overreaction, name me 20 players better than Kobe, I'd love to see the list.


Been saving that for a while. :man12:

LMAO I remember that.
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby Finwë on Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:13 am

lakers_09tv wrote:His list isn't that ridiculous. If you go on realgm a lot of 10 lists look like his. The players in his top 5 look accurate to me. I don't necessarily agree with the order that they are in.

Oh my, I wish he would've said so, who could possibly disagree with the experts on realgm? :man10:

No one that watched the NBA last season could possibly rank Wade & Dirk ahead of Kobe, or suggest Aldridge is right behind him. Blatantly ludacris conceptions. Won't even waste time explaining why.
Rose shouldn't rank ahead of him either because he played very few games, will be out till like the all-star break, and we don't know how he'll come back. In fact, there were many games (especially one against Miami) when Rose's presence on the floor wasn't necessarily a good thing for Chicago after he came back from a minor injury he had.
You can debate Howard (since he isn't healthy and didn't have a great season; isn't as good a leader and isn't a closer -FTs-), Kevin Love (doesn't play D, shoots a low % for a big, didn't get to the playoffs), Westbrook (chucker, makes a ton of mistakes, is frequently detrimental to OKC) and even CP3 (who despite being extremely talented is overrated. He relies way too much on flopping and playing the refs, he couldn't perform in the playoffs -maybe he wasn't healty, but that's not a plus is it? that he's frequently not healthy-)
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby JGC on Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:08 am

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:I understand why you guys don't like my list and it would be foolish of me to expect a lot of people to agree with me since this is a Lakers forum, however I think a lot of you form your opinions of certain players by reading this website instead of finding more impartial sources and that ends up skewing your perspective. That's why my list looks so ridiculous to you guys because you don't expose yourselves to people who won't always think the same way.


Problem is, the inevitable response you will get is "but i watch LOTS/TONS/MANY NBA games, not just Lakers" but we all know that in most cases, it probably isn't true. But I think you're spot on in your analysis but just know that in here, it is predictably going to be met with much ... resistance. I mean didn't you know, all the impartial observers post at ClubLakers! Haha.

Kobe's season last year was Iverson-esque (aka 'HORRIBLE' by Kobe's standards) in my opinion, and if I knew he would have the same season this year that he had last, then 6th best player in the league is probably too high. So the only reasonable justification for #6 is if one thinks he can have a better season than last year.

But of course, all Lakers fans think he can have a better season than the previous year. I'm not sure that outside of haters who continually bag on Kobe, I have ever seen anyone in here ever predict he'd do worse in a season compared to the previous one.

If you're looking for objectivity in here, you're not going to get it no matter how many people claim to watch other games.
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby therealdeal on Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:16 am

So much elitism in this thread... it's suffocating.

I'm on my phone now but I'll be back here when I can be.
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby JGC on Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:19 am

therealdeal wrote:So much elitism in this thread... it's suffocating.

I'm on my phone now but I'll be back here when I can be.


Well, I wouldn't call it elitism, it's just fanaticism. I think most fans actually think that they are objective.
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby nameant on Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:24 am

lakers_09tv wrote:1. Lebron
2. Chris Paul
3. Dwight Howard
4. Durant
5. Wade (I have him over Durant when healthy.)

Rose in the top 5 is laughable to me.


About as laughable as Wade over Kobe.
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Re: #NBArank 6: Kobe Bryant

Postby TIME on Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:37 am

JGC wrote:
therealdeal wrote:So much elitism in this thread... it's suffocating.

I'm on my phone now but I'll be back here when I can be.


Well, I wouldn't call it elitism, it's just fanaticism. I think most fans actually think that they are objective.


He's referring to you and a couple of others. :wave:

Look we get it that there are some Lakers / Kobe homers here. But being an anti-Kobe homer doesn't gain you any more credibility than being a Kobe homer does. If you, Scrotal, and lakers_09tv think that everyone here that disagrees with you are blind homers why do you waste your time here?

The list was pretty bad though... no homer. :man12:
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