No one likes the Sky Hook

Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:57 pm

Doc Brown wrote:Image

McGee, though, has been studying at UCLA under the tutelage of Scott Garson. Kind of a big step for the son of a USC grad. As a result, not only is McGee one of the few NBA centers that actually pulls out the Kareem-esque skyhook from time to time, but Garson has no issues with going on- record in lauding JaVale. McGee, Garson told Wise, is a "very hard worker who did everything I asked of him."


So this one pic and a quote from someone means what? What has he done at the NBA level as an offensive player to warrant such praise? Not much besides use his athleticism, just like a D. Jordan. Just because a guy made a few Kareem like skyhooks in a game doesn't necessarily mean he can perfect it and use it as a reliable weapon like Kareem. Two completely different scenearios.

If you guys are going to use this pic and quote as PROOF that McGee has the potnetial to master the skyhook, we can just agree to disagree. No, I do not think he has the potential to master this shot. For someone to even have a chance, at least imo, you need to have certain traits like touch, great coordination and footwork. He has demonstrated none of that at the NBA level. So I don't understand how one can think he can master this shot without possessing the required traits to do it.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby John3:16 on Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:58 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:I explained several times in this thread why I think the skyhook is a very difficult shot to master.


You continue to use the word "mastered." No one has to master it to be successful using it. Did Kobe "master" the 3 point shot? I'd say no, as he's not viewed as a great 3 point shooter. But it's surely a successful part of his game.

The sky hook is viewed as old, outdated, and un-cool. Just like Rick Barry and his underhanded FT shot. Highly successful way of shooting that many players utilized in the 50s and 60s. But it's not cool now, just like the sky hook, so no one does it. But surely one can be successful with the underhanded FT shot without "mastering" it like Rick Barry did.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:14 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
I explained several times in this thread why I think the skyhook is a very difficult shot to master.

I actually you didn't explain anything. Instead what you did was go over the top with "really, really OMG! You are kidding me.... Explain to me how this is true....." Every once in a while you defended your point but most of all you just danced around with weak attempts to keep people from noticing that you didn't have a point. When I continued to point that out you, per usual, ran from the points of the conversation and went with outlandish claims. Now, my point came before I ever knew McGee was working at UCLA and working on said hookshot. I came to the conclusion that he was gifted enough by watching him play and not just seeing a dumb player. I challenged you to show how he was not equipped to master it and again, as usual, you had nothing. FInally you posted that YOU couldn't do it which cleared up the nonsense you have been saying.

Another thing you enjoy jumping on a key word or phrase. Since I am the one that said "master" in the first place let me explain that, again so it works for you, so you know what I mean. To master a shot means you make it at a much higher clip than you miss it. It does not mean you are perfect. Steve Nash is a 90% freethrow shooter he is automatic but he has missed. He (and I cant remember the #1 guy is) has absolutely mastered the free threw at the highest level. That being said someone with an 80% or above free throw average is considered a great free throw shooter. You don't have to be perfect to have mastered the shot. 3-point shooters to be considered great shoot over 35%, while bigs in the paint are considered great at 55%+ in the box. With that in mind Kareem shot a career average of 56% and is considered one of the greatest of all times. Kareem has said the sky hook is not a difficult shot to get and he doesn't understand why more guys don't use it. That is the GUY who MASTERED the SKYHOOK who said that. Why you are arguing was beyond me until the revelation that you are unable to do it which means that it is impossible. Maybe you should re-evaluate your actual basketball skill so that you don't try to minimize other guys because you can't do it.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:16 pm

The Skyhook is a very difficult shot to develop. Kareem took a number of years to develop it and he had all of the mental and physical tools necessary to do it.

I'm not sure I buy the argument that players think it's old fashioned or that they would not look cool shooting it.... cooler is making big money because you have an advantage on everyone and even cooler yet is extending your career with a shot like this. It's a lack of dedication and the fact that almost no one can teach it because no one knows how at the lower levels anymore.

Rule changes and the evolution of the center position to essentially a second PF on the floor has a lot to do with it as well. Traditional post up offenses are a thing of the past.... eggs and chickens IMHO... traditional centers are a thing of the past as well. In the last 20 years you have maybe 3 or 4 true back to the basket centers who have played at this level..... It's a lost position.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:19 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:Image

McGee, though, has been studying at UCLA under the tutelage of Scott Garson. Kind of a big step for the son of a USC grad. As a result, not only is McGee one of the few NBA centers that actually pulls out the Kareem-esque skyhook from time to time, but Garson has no issues with going on- record in lauding JaVale. McGee, Garson told Wise, is a "very hard worker who did everything I asked of him."


So this one pic and a quote from someone means what? What has he done at the NBA level as an offensive player to warrant such praise? Not much besides use his athleticism, just like a D. Jordan. Just because a guy made a few Kareem like skyhooks in a game doesn't necessarily mean he can perfect it and use it as a reliable weapon like Kareem. Two completely different scenearios.

If you guys are going to use this pic and quote as PROOF that McGee has the potnetial to master the skyhook, we can just agree to disagree. No, I do not think he has the potential to master this shot. For someone to even have a chance, at least imo, you need to have certain traits like touch, great coordination and footwork. He has demonstrated none of that at the NBA level. So I don't understand how one can think he can master this shot without possessing the required traits to do it.

in other words you A) have no real clue as to what McGee can and cannot do, B) you are unable to get past your own ego to see what people are trying to TEACH you, C) you wont learn from those (not even including myself in this statement) that clearly have a better understanding of the game.

I believe if KAP himself came out and said McGee can master (yup ill even use that word) the skyhook you'd probably come back with "what does Kap know he retired 400 years ago."
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:20 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:The sky hook goes against the logic of shooting. Because in a normal shot, you are relying on correct form so that when you shoot, as long as your form is right, so should your shot. At least it should be consistent. And the correct form relies on many obvious factors like feet should width apart, knees bent, form the T on your shooting hand and correct follow through, etc.

But the sky hook is all wrong in terms of having a reliable base or form to rely on because you are not balanced. You are sideways to the basket (in a normal shot, you are squared up to the basket), you are jumping off of one foot (obviously two feet and balanced in normal shot) and you have to properly guide the shot with only one hand AND coming from behind you (normal shot uses two hands). It goes against all logic in terms of how you should shoot the ball. That's why it's an incredibly difficult shot to master.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby John3:16 on Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:20 pm

Rooscooter wrote:I'm not sure I buy the argument that players think it's old fashioned or that they would not look cool shooting it....


Dale Brown brought up the idea of having Shaq shoot his FTs underhanded. Shaq wrote in his book that he had tears in his eyes and begged Coach Brown to not make him shoot "that old man shot" because it would be "too embarrassing."
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:23 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:
Lets Go Lakers wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:Image

McGee, though, has been studying at UCLA under the tutelage of Scott Garson. Kind of a big step for the son of a USC grad. As a result, not only is McGee one of the few NBA centers that actually pulls out the Kareem-esque skyhook from time to time, but Garson has no issues with going on- record in lauding JaVale. McGee, Garson told Wise, is a "very hard worker who did everything I asked of him."


So this one pic and a quote from someone means what? What has he done at the NBA level as an offensive player to warrant such praise? Not much besides use his athleticism, just like a D. Jordan. Just because a guy made a few Kareem like skyhooks in a game doesn't necessarily mean he can perfect it and use it as a reliable weapon like Kareem. Two completely different scenearios.

If you guys are going to use this pic and quote as PROOF that McGee has the potnetial to master the skyhook, we can just agree to disagree. No, I do not think he has the potential to master this shot. For someone to even have a chance, at least imo, you need to have certain traits like touch, great coordination and footwork. He has demonstrated none of that at the NBA level. So I don't understand how one can think he can master this shot without possessing the required traits to do it.

in other words you A) have no real clue as to what McGee can and cannot do, B) you are unable to get past your own ego to see what people are trying to TEACH you, C) you wont learn from those (not even including myself in this statement) that clearly have a better understanding of the game.

I believe if KAP himself came out and said McGee can master (yup ill even use that word) the skyhook you'd probably come back with "what does Kap know he retired 400 years ago."


If that's what you believe, all power to you. I have my opinion on this situation and have stated them. If you think McGee has the talents to master this shot, fine.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:23 pm

John3:16 wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:I'm not sure I buy the argument that players think it's old fashioned or that they would not look cool shooting it....


Dale Brown brought up the idea of having Shaq shoot his FTs underhanded. Shaq wrote in his book that he had tears in his eyes and begged Coach Brown to not make him shoot "that old man shot" because it would be "too embarrassing."


The Skyhook is different than an underhanded free throw. That shot is a last resort for complete failure and yes it would be embarrassing.... the skyhook is a weapon that is unstoppable for a 7 footer to have. Shaq could still be playing if he had it...... and a treadmill.....
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:26 pm

Rooscooter wrote:The Skyhook is a very difficult shot to develop. Kareem took a number of years to develop it and he had all of the mental and physical tools necessary to do it.

I'm not sure I buy the argument that players think it's old fashioned or that they would not look cool shooting it.... cooler is making big money because you have an advantage on everyone and even cooler yet is extending your career with a shot like this. It's a lack of dedication and the fact that almost no one can teach it because no one knows how at the lower levels anymore.

Rule changes and the evolution of the center position to essentially a second PF on the floor has a lot to do with it as well. Traditional post up offenses are a thing of the past.... eggs and chickens IMHO... traditional centers are a thing of the past as well. In the last 20 years you have maybe 3 or 4 true back to the basket centers who have played at this level..... It's a lost position.

I think it was hard to develop cause Kap was the first. The foundation is there now. I honestly think its part of what you said but it is also part of it not being cool. These guys want flash instantly. Very few players try to evolve their skillsets past what has gotten them to the show. We are in a generation of 1-trick ponies who are "specialist" at one or two things.

My point this whole time has been that if someone were to put in the work then it would not be hard to master. No harder than a turn around jumper imo. Not just anyone will be able to get it thats for sure but the idea that only 1 man in the history of the world is capable of doing that shot with regular success is crazy.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:30 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:The Skyhook is a very difficult shot to develop. Kareem took a number of years to develop it and he had all of the mental and physical tools necessary to do it.

I'm not sure I buy the argument that players think it's old fashioned or that they would not look cool shooting it.... cooler is making big money because you have an advantage on everyone and even cooler yet is extending your career with a shot like this. It's a lack of dedication and the fact that almost no one can teach it because no one knows how at the lower levels anymore.

Rule changes and the evolution of the center position to essentially a second PF on the floor has a lot to do with it as well. Traditional post up offenses are a thing of the past.... eggs and chickens IMHO... traditional centers are a thing of the past as well. In the last 20 years you have maybe 3 or 4 true back to the basket centers who have played at this level..... It's a lost position.

I think it was hard to develop cause Kap was the first. The foundation is there now. I honestly think its part of what you said but it is also part of it not being cool. These guys want flash instantly. Very few players try to evolve their skillsets past what has gotten them to the show. We are in a generation of 1-trick ponies who are "specialist" at one or two things.

My point this whole time has been that if someone were to put in the work then it would not be hard to master. No harder than a turn around jumper imo. Not just anyone will be able to get it thats for sure but the idea that only 1 man in the history of the world is capable of doing that shot with regular success is crazy.


I'll go see if I can dig it up but there was an analysis of Kareem's career shooting % on the skyhook. I think he shot over 63% right handed and 58% left handed skyhooks in his career..... he shot around 51% on all other types of shots. Keep in mind that most of them were against double and triple teams as well. Again.... not sure why anyone with the ability to do it wouldn't..... it's the only indefensible shot in the game.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby trodgers on Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:33 pm

I've shot underhanded in a game - it was a three from near half court, and my coach promptly removed me from the game. I also took hooks from the arc. But I never cared what I looked like playing.

I do think that players think it would be uncool to shoot the skyhook, but weirdly if they did they'd be stars - it'd be "their" shot in the league because no on does it regularly.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:35 pm

trodgers wrote:I've shot underhanded in a game - it was a three from near half court, and my coach promptly removed me from the game. I also took hooks from the arc. But I never cared what I looked like playing.

I do think that players think it would be uncool to shoot the skyhook, but weirdly if they did they'd be stars - it'd be "their" shot in the league because no on does it regularly.



Hmmm..... two things here T..... first, If I was on your team and you shot underhanded from half court or a hook from the 3 point line the coach wouldn't have to take you out...... :man12:

...... second.... now I know why you like Bynum as much as you do......
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:43 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
puffyusaf#2 wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:The Skyhook is a very difficult shot to develop. Kareem took a number of years to develop it and he had all of the mental and physical tools necessary to do it.

I'm not sure I buy the argument that players think it's old fashioned or that they would not look cool shooting it.... cooler is making big money because you have an advantage on everyone and even cooler yet is extending your career with a shot like this. It's a lack of dedication and the fact that almost no one can teach it because no one knows how at the lower levels anymore.

Rule changes and the evolution of the center position to essentially a second PF on the floor has a lot to do with it as well. Traditional post up offenses are a thing of the past.... eggs and chickens IMHO... traditional centers are a thing of the past as well. In the last 20 years you have maybe 3 or 4 true back to the basket centers who have played at this level..... It's a lost position.

I think it was hard to develop cause Kap was the first. The foundation is there now. I honestly think its part of what you said but it is also part of it not being cool. These guys want flash instantly. Very few players try to evolve their skillsets past what has gotten them to the show. We are in a generation of 1-trick ponies who are "specialist" at one or two things.

My point this whole time has been that if someone were to put in the work then it would not be hard to master. No harder than a turn around jumper imo. Not just anyone will be able to get it thats for sure but the idea that only 1 man in the history of the world is capable of doing that shot with regular success is crazy.


I'll go see if I can dig it up but there was an analysis of Kareem's career shooting % on the skyhook. I think he shot over 63% right handed and 58% left handed skyhooks in his career..... he shot around 51% on all other types of shots. Keep in mind that most of them were against double and triple teams as well. Again.... not sure why anyone with the ability to do it wouldn't..... it's the only indefensible shot in the game.

I think that is the point John was making the Skyhook isn't sexy.

Why the hell did it take Lebron 8 years to even attempt to develope a post game? Cause he could rely on his speed and taking guys off the dribble. Even today his post game is average at best. He should be Karl Malone but better on the block. Dwight Howard has zero post game. Thats where I also agree with your point that the evolution of the Center has changed. The mentality is the problem IMO. To this day I never understood why Shaq (well it was ego) never developed a sky or sweeping hook. He had a hook of sorts but it was a shotput type thing. In one of the first post I talked about this I said Kaps greatest gift was he was thinker. How many players now do we consider "students" of the game? not a ton thats for sure.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:52 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
puffyusaf#2 wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:The Skyhook is a very difficult shot to develop. Kareem took a number of years to develop it and he had all of the mental and physical tools necessary to do it.

I'm not sure I buy the argument that players think it's old fashioned or that they would not look cool shooting it.... cooler is making big money because you have an advantage on everyone and even cooler yet is extending your career with a shot like this. It's a lack of dedication and the fact that almost no one can teach it because no one knows how at the lower levels anymore.

Rule changes and the evolution of the center position to essentially a second PF on the floor has a lot to do with it as well. Traditional post up offenses are a thing of the past.... eggs and chickens IMHO... traditional centers are a thing of the past as well. In the last 20 years you have maybe 3 or 4 true back to the basket centers who have played at this level..... It's a lost position.

I think it was hard to develop cause Kap was the first. The foundation is there now. I honestly think its part of what you said but it is also part of it not being cool. These guys want flash instantly. Very few players try to evolve their skillsets past what has gotten them to the show. We are in a generation of 1-trick ponies who are "specialist" at one or two things.

My point this whole time has been that if someone were to put in the work then it would not be hard to master. No harder than a turn around jumper imo. Not just anyone will be able to get it thats for sure but the idea that only 1 man in the history of the world is capable of doing that shot with regular success is crazy.


I'll go see if I can dig it up but there was an analysis of Kareem's career shooting % on the skyhook. I think he shot over 63% right handed and 58% left handed skyhooks in his career..... he shot around 51% on all other types of shots. Keep in mind that most of them were against double and triple teams as well. Again.... not sure why anyone with the ability to do it wouldn't..... it's the only indefensible shot in the game.

I think that is the point John was making the Skyhook isn't sexy.

Why the hell did it take Lebron 8 years to even attempt to develope a post game? Cause he could rely on his speed and taking guys off the dribble. Even today his post game is average at best. He should be Karl Malone but better on the block. Dwight Howard has zero post game. Thats where I also agree with your point that the evolution of the Center has changed. The mentality is the problem IMO. To this day I never understood why Shaq (well it was ego) never developed a sky or sweeping hook. He had a hook of sorts but it was a shotput type thing. In one of the first post I talked about this I said Kaps greatest gift was he was thinker. How many players now do we consider "students" of the game? not a ton thats for sure.


You don't understand why Shaq didn't develop a sky or sweeping hook? Maybe because he couldn't hit anything beyond 8 feet and lacked touch? Correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to think that any big who works on this shot can be good at it. And I am saying you need certain traits (touch being one of them) to even have a chance to perfect this shot.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Doc Brown on Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:55 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
So this one pic and a quote from someone means what?.


I read Puffy's post about how JaVale has the necessary components to pull off the sky hook and found a picture comparing both Kareem and JaVale. I also found a quote and others I didn't post about JaVale working on and shooting the sky hook in games. I thought maybe him and others would find it interesting that he is actually trying to develop his sky hook and that a comparison has already been linked between the two.

I haven't even posted in this thread before that, so the rest of your post is pretty pointless since I'm not even involved in this argument, even though you included me.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby therealdeal on Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:00 pm

I wish Embiid hadn't broke his back. I think he might have been one of the few Centers who would be alright playing with his back to the basket and might make it cool again. Who is the last Center that you identified with his post prowess?

I think two of them were on this team together: Pau and Drew. I think those two might have been the last real efficient post players. Maybe Brook Lopez before all of his foot injuries?

If Kareem's hook isn't sexy that's fine. Are players going to really tell me though that the incredible diversity of Hakeem's post game wasn't sexy? That was maybe the most fun for me to watch besides Kobe in the last 25 years. His footwork was amazing. Nobody wants to play like that? Why not?
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Weezy on Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:08 pm

I still think there is a mentality today with young players that the sky hook, traditional hook, sweeping hook, whatever you wanna call it, is not "cool". Players today want to dunk, do crazy layups, and shoot jumpers, that's what's cool. The hook shot, in most of my experience is thought of as an old man shot, an old style thing. I've been laughed at before for using a traditional sweeping hook shot in a game. I think that mentality is absolutely stupid, but it is there, I have experienced it.

When I have practiced hook shots that is what goes through my head too, that it's an old school shot, that I'm trying to emulate the great players of decades ago, because nobody great or maybe no huge star I should say, has used it for a long time IMO. And until some huge stars of today add that shot to their game, I think it will continue to be thought of as an out of date thing. Big men don't rule the game like they used to, and the ones that are good/great shoot jumpers, and everyone else mostly relies on athleticism and speed and can easily get their shots off, so a hook as a weapon is not "needed".

I was watching a high school all stars type game right now on ESPN U, and all these kids do is go one on one, run wildly into the paint and throw up bad layups/floaters, and jack up tons of 3's. There are no post games at all, the best they manage are pump fakes to layups or dunks, or short little one-handed throw in shots a few feet from the hoop that only slightly resemble hook shots. "Old school" or "old man" game seems to not even be on these kids minds, and that's a shame because there is a ridiculous lack of fundamentals out there. Fundamentals aren't "cool" though, dunking and bombing threes is "cool".
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Weezy on Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:16 pm

therealdeal wrote:Are players going to really tell me though that the incredible diversity of Hakeem's post game wasn't sexy? That was maybe the most fun for me to watch besides Kobe in the last 25 years. His footwork was amazing. Nobody wants to play like that? Why not?


I think that even Hakeem now, played in his prime too long ago for these players coming in to have watched him growing up. I'm 30, I can barely remember watching him during his title runs because it was almost 20 years ago now. Kids coming in now or even 25 year olds aren't going to vividly remember the guy unless they grew up watching tape and being students of the game. I think players that were really using hook shots as weapons date back to the 80's and 70's at the soonest now. That doesn't sound like a long time ago, but if you think about it, it really is. And maybe I'm cynical about a lot of today's players, but I think another reason players don't "want to play like" Hakeem, is they don't want to put in the work. If you're big and super athletic, why not just dunk. That's what we have in Dwight Howard and Blake Griffin, and that's what has been celebrated above everything else thanks to stuff like ESPN.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby trodgers on Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:20 pm

Roo; it was an exhibition game - boys all-stars vs. girls. I always wanted to take the underhand three; golden opportunity. I hit the rim, FWIW.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Juronimo on Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:28 pm

i have to agree with Lets Go Lakers here.

Kareem started perfecting the sky hook in elementary school. That means he spent years mastering it.

Most big men are basically in the NBA due to being tall and the skilled big men are more face up guys than back to the basket big men. There are only a few big men in today's NBA with good back to the basket games.

I think that in today's NBA the big men just don't have the touch, coordination, the dedication to the game to master that shot. That guy in Houston is the poster child of that above point. Also making a shot in a pickup game versus making a shot against NBA competition are two completely different things.

Kareem had a dedication to the game that only a handful of NBA players over the years have had which is why he was able to master that shot, play 20 years, win 6 rings and become arguably the best basketball player in history. I don't think someone like Javale McGee or most of the big men in today's game have the ability to master that shot because they're not Kareem, they haven't dedicated themselves the same way Kareem did starting as a child, even if they do work on their games, which is a must I'd imagine for any professional.

There's a reason why Cap is considered to be arguably the best to ever do it.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:32 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
puffyusaf#2 wrote:I think that is the point John was making the Skyhook isn't sexy.

Why the hell did it take Lebron 8 years to even attempt to develope a post game? Cause he could rely on his speed and taking guys off the dribble. Even today his post game is average at best. He should be Karl Malone but better on the block. Dwight Howard has zero post game. Thats where I also agree with your point that the evolution of the Center has changed. The mentality is the problem IMO. To this day I never understood why Shaq (well it was ego) never developed a sky or sweeping hook. He had a hook of sorts but it was a shotput type thing. In one of the first post I talked about this I said Kaps greatest gift was he was thinker. How many players now do we consider "students" of the game? not a ton thats for sure.


You don't understand why Shaq didn't develop a sky or sweeping hook? Maybe because he couldn't hit anything beyond 8 feet and lacked touch? Correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to think that any big who works on this shot can be good at it. And I am saying you need certain traits (touch being one of them) to even have a chance to perfect this shot.


Ill give you one thing you are persistent. Inside the () you will se I wrote "well it was ego" cause Shaq never worked on his game. Shaquille Oneal was arguable the most talented big man we have seen. People praise Lebron for size, speed and ability but that is nothing compared to what Shaq was naturally. Shaq had the intelligence and the ability just not the humility to do it. Yes, his shot, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, was more shot put and forced but he has shown soft touches to infact he would run the fast break. Shaq had soft hands when he wanted to but he didn't need to because he simply overpowered guys. Kareem wasn't overpowering guys he developed his shot based off that because he wasn't out-muscling the bigs of his day. Again, my contention is the fundamentals of a sky hook are not that hard. It takes work like any other shot to be able to use effectively. Kobe taught himself to shoot with the other hand when he hurt his right and he does in the game with efficiency when he uses it. People put in the work to do it then it is possible. You seem to be intent on thinking that no one can do it. You are wrong. In fact, Doc just showed you at least 1 player who is working on that shot. Coincidentally it happens to be the one I mentioned.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby trodgers on Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:34 pm

It's one thing to say that anyone can be good at it; it's another to say that no one in the NBA would benefit from developing a skyhook. Both views are stupid.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:38 pm

trodgers wrote:Roo; it was an exhibition game - boys all-stars vs. girls. I always wanted to take the underhand three; golden opportunity. I hit the rim, FWIW.


:man10:

I played with a guy who went on to play in college way back in the day for a small school in Oregon. They were beating Gonzaga and John Stockton.... he had over 40 in the game and was dribbling out the final 15 seconds of a 20 point victory and tossed up a Globetrotters hook from nearly half court and it went in..... fight ensued... :man10:

He practiced the hook shot every practice and hit them quite a bit.......

Interesting part of this is that he played for the Trailblazers for a season and is now the Coach of that small college team..... and had Stockton come to his BB camp a few summers ago....
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:38 pm

Juronimo wrote:i have to agree with Lets Go Lakers here.

Kareem started perfecting the sky hook in elementary school. That means he spent years mastering it.

Most big men are basically in the NBA due to being tall and the skilled big men are more face up guys than back to the basket big men. There are only a few big men in today's NBA with good back to the basket games.

I think that in today's NBA the big men just don't have the touch, coordination, the dedication to the game to master that shot. That guy in Houston is the poster child of that above point. Also making a shot in a pickup game versus making a shot against NBA competition are two completely different things.

Kareem had a dedication to the game that only a handful of NBA players over the years have had which is why he was able to master that shot, play 20 years, win 6 rings and become arguably the best basketball player in history. I don't think someone like Javale McGee or most of the big men in today's game have the ability to master that shot because they're not Kareem, they haven't dedicated themselves the same way Kareem did starting as a child, even if they do work on their games, which is a must I'd imagine for any professional.

There's a reason why Cap is considered to be arguably the best to ever do it.


Juranimo, NO one is arguing that todays players have the dedication or drive to do it. Kareem was the architect of the shot he had the hard part. Once it was perfected then it could be emulated thats just fact for any thing done on the field/court. The fundamentals of the hook shot are not some crazy nuclear math puzzle its actually fairly basic. So to think that guys who are just as talented can't get it if they dedicated to learning is crazy to me. Kap was the best to ever do it cause he was the only one to ever do it. Granted even if others did Kap would still be considered the best in my book but it isn't impossible like LGL is trying to claim.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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