No one likes the Sky Hook

Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby TIME on Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:12 am

Pffffft. Best low post players in the league now is a tie between... Deandre Jordan and Blake Griffin. :bow:
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:06 am

I don't think the big man situation is as bad as some make it out to be. I just think fans are spoiled from what they saw in the mid 80's to early 90's and assume every era should be that stacked with great Cs. But it's hard to find a true 7 footer with the touch, light feet, coordination and agility to possess a post up game. They are truly a diamond in the rough. Most 7 footers are stiffs.

There are quite a few bigs with post games right now, although only a few of them are 7 feet tall. So just because theses guys are an inch or two below 7', that means the big man is dead? I don't know if I necessarily agree. I mean I can conceded it's a weak era but I think people go a little overboard. Guys like Cousins, Jefferson and Randolph are monsters in the post. And you throw in young guys like A. Davis and Drummond and possibly Embiid and the future of the bigs is not that bad. Not to mention, the old beards like Garnett, Duncan and Gasol.

I think the rule changes had a big impact on the game itself and what type of style teams want to play. When the rules so heavily favor the wing players, it makes sense to go that route. So in some instances, I think some talented bigs aren't really given the chance to show their true skills given the open court play of today. But there's plenty of bigs with post up games. It's just that most of them aren't quite 7 feet tall. So if you define a C as being 7 feet or taller, than it is a weak era for the big man. But in terms of "bigs" (as in 6'10" to 6'11") with post up games, there are plenty.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby lakerfan2 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:11 pm

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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby LTLakerFan on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:35 pm

Nah he made some good points. There aren't a lot of coordinated 7 footers in the league.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:43 pm

There aren't a lot of coordinated posts from him either......
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby LTLakerFan on Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:10 pm

A lot of the master of the obvious type statements mixed into randomly decent analysis. imo.
Last edited by LTLakerFan on Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby John3:16 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:04 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:I see two factors among several others which contributed to the decline of the post game C.


Lets Go Lakers wrote:I don't think the big man situation is as bad as some make it out to be.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:17 pm

John3:16 wrote:
Lets Go Lakers wrote:I see two factors among several others which contributed to the decline of the post game C.


Lets Go Lakers wrote:I don't think the big man situation is as bad as some make it out to be.

when arguing with one's self one must always look at both sides equally.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Doc Brown on Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:46 pm

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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby halekulani on Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:54 pm

John3:16 wrote:Huh? All this time I thought Shaq was a back to the basket center.
Seriously, how did his dunks, power, and kids looking up to him contribute to the decline of the post game center? He had a little shot from 8 feet out and was a lot more then just dunks and power. Even he's been quoted as saying he's the last of the back to the basket centers. He's not, but he clearly viewed himself as that type of center you're saying he helped kill.


that wasnt his point
shaq single handedly forced the nba to change the defensive rules because he was impossible to ref fairly and consistently

zone defenses make it easier to crowd the paint. it only makes sense that the game has progressed away from back the the basket players.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:59 am

John3:16 wrote:
Lets Go Lakers wrote:I see two factors among several others which contributed to the decline of the post game C.


Lets Go Lakers wrote:I don't think the big man situation is as bad as some make it out to be.


I also said the following in the first post you quoted, "I just think the league is going through a weak era in bigs, not because of the factors I mentioned but because it's just one of those things that happen from time to time."

So in the same post, I am even questioned what I said. There is no right or wrong answer. I am trying to encourage discussion on this topic, that's all.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby John3:16 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:46 am

^^^ I agree it's a weak era. I think players like Al Jefferson are overlooked, but we have guys like Howard who are regarded as the best, who have no go-to offensive moves. I felt like Bynum was on his way. The kid really dominated for stretches, but just couldn't stay healthy. But he had the tools. Phil did a great job coaching him. He played with his back to the basket, limited his dribbles, kept the ball up high (especially after an offensive rebound), and could go to his left or right.

Anyway, we're definitely in agreement that it's a weak era. Is it the players or the style of play being employed? I think it's a bit of both, but if I had my choice, I'd take an Al Jefferson or a healthy Bynum over plugging a PF into the slot.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby lakerfan2 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:18 am

Pau was probably the last skilled big man in the post, of this current generation. Duncan is pretty good, but he doesn't have the array of moves and quality of finish that Pau did. His combination of size and intelligence, despite not having the explosive athleticism of the likes of Shaq or Hakeem, made Pau truly unique in his own right because his post game incorporated much of Hakeem's finesse work, but didn't have Hakeems agility.

Bynum was at the point where his post game was guided by his unmatched length. His footwork was getting there, but he was thinking about it too much, rather than it being second nature to him. Couple that with the fact that he wanted to work on other parts of his game (jumpers), rather than in the post, mostly because the offense was already loaded with Pau and Kobe, that he didn't get the run to learn.

If healthy, Embiid will probably be the next great post big. Since the "highlight" era (MJ, Nique, Shaq, Kobe) of Top 10 dunks etc...dominated US media, I've always felt that the next skilled big man again be international. On the international level, a lot of coaches and teams stress fundamentals still, instead of being hyped for dunking the ball 20 times a game. If you think about it, the last few good big men have been from abroad. Yao, Pau, Dirk, Marc. They may not possess the same physical prowess the US players are known for, but they sure as hell are a lot more dedicated to learning the game.
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