No one likes the Sky Hook

No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Barnstable on Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:22 pm

I just don't understand why NO ONE asks Kareem to teach them the Sky Hook.

I use to use the Sky Hook myself in highschool and it was not a hard shot to learn IMO. I was never a very good player, and only about 6', but the Sky Hook was probably one of the easiest shots for me to make.

Kareem's very willing to teach it seems, and the Sky Hook in general was super effective for him. Even for a player like Randle, that has shorter arms; developing a Sky Hook would allow him to shoot over players much taller than him without having to waste energy with a bunch of pump fakes.

Kareem's going to be working with Hibbert, but he should be working with Hill and Davis and Randle especially teaching them the Sky Hook giving them another tool for success.

Why does no one want to learn it?
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Kobe8Fan on Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:32 pm

What cha talkin' 'bout? Kobe loves the sky hook!





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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby lakerfan2 on Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:33 pm

I feel ya on this. I like to use it too, and it's quite effective even against taller guys too.

One reason to be honest: Shaq (and Michael and Nique to an extent), but big guys are focused usually on one thing, dunking. It's the easiest thing to do, and requires little coordination on their part. It's the post "highlight" era, where all you see on espn/youtube are highlight reels of dunks, but no post up moves or footwork. That's what kids grow up on these days.

The Center position was easily my favorite position to watch growing up. From Kareem, to Hakeem, and even parts of Shaqs game.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby 432J on Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:36 pm

probably because today's centers are so far behind on the basics of footwork and post-play (see dwight howard), that teaching them a sky hook is last on the list behind the basics. plus, the center position is essentially dead in today's NBA

hibbert and bynum are the only players i know of who play a true center position with their backs to the basket
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby revgen on Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:05 pm

Bynum said that he worked with Kareem on the skyhook, but it wasn't working for him. IIRC he said that a player has to have the right balance when executing the shot. If not, it's easy for the defender to push him offbalance and he'll miss the shot entirely. On top of that, Bynum had the big butt and wide shoulders to bump guys out of the way ala Shaq. He didn't absolutely need a skyhook to be a highly efficient postup player.

Personally, I think Pau could have used the Skyhook more than Bynum, since his body is more like Kareem's. Tall and lanky. Ditto with Kaman. It's these kind of guys that make me wonder why they shoot jumpers instead of using traditional hook shots. Shaq and Bynum have an excuse not to use a traditional hook. Pau and Kaman don't.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Weezy on Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:13 pm

I'll throw a few weird/different theories out there. I'd say most players today didn't grow up watching Kareem, so they might not understand how truly great he was other than by hearing it all the time, like say with Bill Russell. They might mistakenly think his style is outdated and this is a different game. A lot of players today go work with Olajuwon for example, a guy they probably actually saw play. Lastly, dunking is "cooler", fundamentals and finesse hook shots are not I assume, plus I think a lot of tall guys don't want to put in the work to master it, but rather coast on being tall alone.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Rooscooter on Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:18 pm

The Sky Hook as Kareem is famous for was not used by anyone else that I know of......in any era. Lanier used a similar hook but the footwork was completely different. It's a difficult shot to master if you do not have huge hands from what Kareem has said. There aren't many centers with the coordination and athletic ability to use it actually. He routinely used to shoot it by elevating 3' off the floor. The game winner he made against Boston in the early 70's was on a full run from 18' out and 3' off the floor......
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Barnstable on Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:27 pm

Kobe don't count :man10: He can literally do every type of shot/move ever made in the game.

You would think there would be more players that are students of the game like Kobe and would want to learn the shot.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby LTLakerFan on Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:32 pm

Rooscooter wrote:The Sky Hook as Kareem is famous for was not used by anyone else that I know of......in any era. Lanier used a similar hook but the footwork was completely different. It's a difficult shot to master if you do not have huge hands from what Kareem has said. There aren't many centers with the coordination and athletic ability to use it actually. He routinely used to shoot it by elevating 3' off the floor. The game winner he made against Boston in the early 70's was on a full run from 18' out and 3' off the floor......


Yeah wasn't Kareem 7'2" tall on top of it? And he did get that kind of crazy elevation going up off of one leg and then the arm and ball as high as he could extend with the wrist flip at the end. Most of these tall guys are not that athletic and mobile.

More certainly should have adapted it though, as best they could, for certain situations if not their "money" shot. Magic could do it and as mentioned Kobe obviously too.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby ZenMaster4President on Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:37 pm

Think a bit further.

Current generation of FO types that are, typically, older than current players, will "die out" and the current players and around-basketball people, those raised on dunks and flops, will take their place.

With time - noone in the FOs in the NBA will know anything about fundamentals, Duncan will become a distant memory, like Russel today. That, in turn, will make them choose players based on their beliefs on how the game should be played, so the players will invest even less in fundamentals and will dunk and shoot 3s even more.

In 50 years - it will look like slamball:



Grim future ahead.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby dmaul on Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:43 pm

In addition to what everyone has said above, I'll throw this out there too. Players of today probably look at Kareem no different than Russell or Mikan or basketball on black and white TV. Sure, the sky hook may be effective if mastered, but it doesn't look cool to them and they wouldn't want to be caught dead playing an "old man game." Just like the worst free throw shooters would still never shoot the ball underhanded, granny style. Or purposely shooting a bank shot. It's like taboo. Only a handful of players with the skills, fundamentals, appreciation and respect for basketball history do the stuff the legends before them employed.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby John3:16 on Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:05 pm

Off the top of my head, these players used the hook shot, to some extent: Ralph Sampson, Hakeem, Joe Berry Carroll (Joe Barely Cares), Magic, Kobe.......... annnnnnnnnd that's about it.

Obviously, no one had anything close to the success with the Sky Hook as Kareem. And I'm with Barns, I think it's an easy shot to learn and be effective with. I'm 6'4, but in high school I was a lot shorter and was actually the shortest player on my teams up until 11th grade. I used the sky hook in practice a lot and it almost felt like I was cheating because it was so easy to get my shot off.

I'd love to see more players use it.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby therealdeal on Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:11 pm

It's not sexy. Screw that shot.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Barnstable on Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:57 pm

John3:16 wrote: And I'm with Barns, I think it's an easy shot to learn and be effective with. I'm 6'4, but in high school I was a lot shorter and was actually the shortest player on my teams up until 11th grade. I used the sky hook in practice a lot and it almost felt like I was cheating because it was so easy to get my shot off.


I literally use to take and make Sky Hook 15 footers on out to the three point line a lot. I'd be playing 21 or something with friends and some random guys that joined in. A random guy guarding me at the top near the 3pt line. I dribble to the left towards the sideline/baseline, two steps for rhythm, take and make a 3pt bank Sky Hook. The guy guarding me twists his face up and says "Lucky shot" and my friends shake their head and say "no, he makes that a lot". I had the hook down, problem was I couldn't make a regular jump shot to save my life :man10:
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby gcclaker on Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:35 pm

therealdeal wrote:It's not sexy. Screw that shot.

That is what Abdul-Jabbar really thinks. It's either the dunk or an outside J. He learned the shot at an early age, then refined it when the NCAA outlawed the dunk in his college years. It really helped his longevity. Walton quipped that Abdul-Jabbar's left leg that he balances himself on the shot belongs in the Smithsonian.



Kaman in the above piece states that no one utilizes it because it belongs to only one player and nobody else wants to be associated with it. Loved Cartwright's analogy.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Fulzgold on Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:35 pm

revgen wrote:Bynum said that he worked with Kareem on the skyhook, but it wasn't working for him. IIRC he said that a player has to have the right balance when executing the shot. If not, it's easy for the defender to push him offbalance and he'll miss the shot entirely. On top of that, Bynum had the big butt and wide shoulders to bump guys out of the way ala Shaq. He didn't absolutely need a skyhook to be a highly efficient postup player.

Personally, I think Pau could have used the Skyhook more than Bynum, since his body is more like Kareem's. Tall and lanky. Ditto with Kaman. It's these kind of guys that make me wonder why they shoot jumpers instead of using traditional hook shots. Shaq and Bynum have an excuse not to use a traditional hook. Pau and Kaman don't.


I totally agree that Pau could have added the sky hook to his low post game and been a lot more lethal. I even mentioned it once to Kareem on his FB page :man1:

I think it takes a combination of touch and agility that a lot of bigs just dont have (Pau does, though).
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:51 pm

It's an incredibly difficult shot to master. That's why only 1 player ever mastered it. If most bigs today don't even have the basics of a post up game to rely on, it's outlandish to expect anyone to master this difficult shot. It takes great coordination, touch and skills just to have a chance to execute this shot, let alone master it.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:53 pm

Also, Kareem's skyhook was without a doubt the single most devastating and unstoppable offensive move in history and no other move comes close.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:00 pm

Barnstable wrote:
John3:16 wrote: And I'm with Barns, I think it's an easy shot to learn and be effective with. I'm 6'4, but in high school I was a lot shorter and was actually the shortest player on my teams up until 11th grade. I used the sky hook in practice a lot and it almost felt like I was cheating because it was so easy to get my shot off.


I literally use to take and make Sky Hook 15 footers on out to the three point line a lot. I'd be playing 21 or something with friends and some random guys that joined in. A random guy guarding me at the top near the 3pt line. I dribble to the left towards the sideline/baseline, two steps for rhythm, take and make a 3pt bank Sky Hook. The guy guarding me twists his face up and says "Lucky shot" and my friends shake their head and say "no, he makes that a lot". I had the hook down, problem was I couldn't make a regular jump shot to save my life :man10:


3 pt, bank, sky hook? Lol. Wtf?

Some of you guys in here must be hidden NBA gems that haven't been discovered yet. Saying how easy this shot is. To me, it's an incredibly difficult shot to master. Once you bring that ball back in a hook, you need great coordination to make the shot because you are on one foot, facing sideways to the basket and the ball needs to be guided in coming from behind you with just one hand. Some of you might be able to make some in practice but to master it at the highest level against the best in the world in game situations over and over again is another story.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby jlkr on Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:31 pm

First, remember it was "sky" hook when Kareem did it because he had mastered the skill of putting the ball at the very top of his extended right arm before shooting it. At the same time, he got some air. So at his height and with his jump, the shot looked like it was being dropped out of the sky. For everyone else who shot it, they never had release points like Kareem's.

Key to Kareem's mastery of the shot is that he started shooting it in the 4th grade as a way of getting shots off against older and taller players. Then at UCLA, the NCAA did not permit the dunk, that forced Kareem to keep practicing the hook, to refine it and to extend his range. Another part of Kareem's mastery was knowing how to respond to the pushing and shoving that is routine in NBA post play. So it was routine for him to adjust to the defender's hand on his hip or waist. Or to the bodying up to him. Or the double teaming. Finally, consider the range he had extended himself to by the time Magic came on the scene: he was routinely hitting the sky hooks from as far as 18 feet out. Dig up that video of Magic's very first game as a rookie where Kareem hits the last second 18 foot hook shot that wins the game... Made it look easy.

So Barn thinks it's an easy shot, eh? It may be easy to get started, but mastery like Kareem's is something else. Think of the other guys who shot hooks, no one ever had Kareem's range. No. One. Further, when I played against guys who used hooks, I'd shove them in subtle ways designed to throw them off. But Kareem mastered responding to defensive tactics like that.

It's a beautiful looking shot yet I despair of ever seeing anyone master that shot and rely on it to become a dominant scorer in my lifetime ...
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:48 pm

The sky hook goes against the logic of shooting. Because in a normal shot, you are relying on correct form so that when you shoot, as long as your form is right, so should your shot. At least it should be consistent. And the correct form relies on many obvious factors like feet should width apart, knees bent, form the T on your shooting hand and correct follow through, etc.

But the sky hook is all wrong in terms of having a reliable base or form to rely on because you are not balanced. You are sideways to the basket (in a normal shot, you are squared up to the basket), you are jumping off of one foot (obviously two feet and balanced in normal shot) and you have to properly guide the shot with only one hand AND coming from behind you (normal shot uses two hands). It goes against all logic in terms of how you should shoot the ball. That's why it's an incredibly difficult shot to master.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby wcsoldier81 on Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:26 am

1. Not a flashy shot
2. Type of "non conventional" shot very few would be very comfortable with in game situation ... like the MJ( then Kobe) turnaround fadeaway in the post, the Dirk one legged J , Timmy bank shot ect ...
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby LTLakerFan on Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:43 am

ZenMaster4President wrote:Think a bit further.

Current generation of FO types that are, typically, older than current players, will "die out" and the current players and around-basketball people, those raised on dunks and flops, will take their place.

With time - noone in the FOs in the NBA will know anything about fundamentals, Duncan will become a distant memory, like Russel today. That, in turn, will make them choose players based on their beliefs on how the game should be played, so the players will invest even less in fundamentals and will dunk and shoot 3s even more.

In 50 years - it will look like slamball:



Grim future ahead.


OK I've been under a rock :man10: WTF?? Yeah that looks like no injuries waiting to happen. :man3: :disagree:
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:55 am

Yep, incredibly hard shot to master. That's why you haven't seen it since.

MJ's fadeaway jumper is up there too, the one he mastered for his second 3 peat. Kobe can do it well, but MJ went to it consistently every game. His release was high and like a half second into the fadeaway, after a high jump. It was impossible to block.
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Re: No one likes the Sky Hook

Postby Savory Griddles on Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:05 am

jlkr wrote:Then at UCLA, the NCAA did not permit the dunk, that forced Kareem to keep practicing the hook, to refine it and to extend his range.


I thought that was the main reason. He made dunks illegal so he decided to develop the hook shot.
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