Is Our Season (Possibly Our Future) Screwed?

Re: Is Our Season (Possibly Our Future) Screwed?

Postby Lakerjones on Tue May 22, 2012 5:43 pm

eltoro wrote:
Lakerjones wrote:As interesting as it would have been to pair up Bryant with another all out competitor like CP3, I'm not sure that back court would have worked out completely. Also with Bryant, CP3 and Bynum as your core, that's 4 bum knees to count on for your future.

Don't get me wrong, I hated the "basketball reasons" and the turmoil caused by Stern and Co. as much as anyone here. I was also very intrigued about the possibility of adding Howard to that triumvirate, which would have been the ultimate move by Mitch and the Buss's.

All that said, I think we can survive that squashed trade. We're going to have to make some very smart moves, though.

You are delusional if y don't think 40 million dollars aged would not have afforded us a better team than what we have now. And 40million is exactly the amount we would've saved if th CP3 trade did not get vetoed by David Stern.


^^Maybe it's a language thing, but I'm not sure what you're talking about here.

You seem to be going after my opinion in some way, but I'm not getting it. I said I was basically in favor of the trade that was consummated and then reneged on by David Stern and Company (the other owners around the league) of Odom and Pau for Chris Paul and TPE.

But even at the time I had worries about CP3 and Kobe co-existing in the backcourt, and I was even more worried about the four bad knees between those guys and Bynum. If we had traded Bynum for Howard, I would have been ecstatic. I admired what the Lakers were trying to do and I was in favor of it, even if I had some doubts.

As this is all retrospect though, I'm more ok with the fact that it didn't go down now. It was hypocritical of David Stern and the league - that's my biggest issue with it getting squashed with the rationale: "Basketball reasons." Especially since Stern had sent out a memo after the NBA took over the Hornets expressing that he would not do what he ended up doing - overstepping the front office of the team.

Again, I'm confused as to what you're arguing with me about. I never said we wouldn't possibly be better, just that I think we can survive it. I never mentioned money so I don't know what you're talking about in that regard.

But regardless of whether we are actually agreeing or disagreeing, even if I did have an idea that ran counter to your own, I can assure you that I'm not delusional. It kind of irritates me that you're starting off a post with that sort of nonsense. If I don't happen to agree with you then I'm delusional? Really. People disagree about plenty of things all of the time. It's called discussion, debate. It doesn't mean anyone has mental illness.
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Re: Is Our Season (Possibly Our Future) Screwed?

Postby dj vitus on Tue May 22, 2012 6:25 pm

Lakerjones wrote:But even at the time I had worries about CP3 and Kobe co-existing in the backcourt, and I was even more worried about the four bad knees between those guys and Bynum.

4 bad knees? Didn't Kobe get his knee healed by some new technology in Germany or something? Bynum's getting it this Summer, too. CP3 would no doubt ride that gravy train as well. Zero bad knees. :man12:
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Re: Is Our Season (Possibly Our Future) Screwed?

Postby eltoro on Tue May 22, 2012 7:34 pm

40 million dollars. That's right forty million. That is how much the Lakers would have savd if the CP3 trade had gone through. Tell me, how you can't buy the best perimeter shooters and bench players with that amount of money.

See link:
http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/post/_/id/30591/8-questions-facing-the-lakers-this-offseason
Scroll down to point 3
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Re: Is Our Season (Possibly Our Future) Screwed?

Postby TIME on Tue May 22, 2012 8:43 pm

eltoro wrote:40 million dollars. That's right forty million. That is how much the Lakers would have savd if the CP3 trade had gone through. Tell me, how you can't buy the best perimeter shooters and bench players with that amount of money.

See link:
http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/post/_/id/30591/8-questions-facing-the-lakers-this-offseason
Scroll down to point 3


You do realize that there is a salary cap right? The CP3 deal would have reduced the Lakers cap number by 20 million. Since they would STILL be over the cap number that 20 million is a real world savings of 40 million. But that does not mean that the Lakers could then go out and sign players for 40 million or even 20 million. It simply represents profit margin for the Buss family. The team would have still been under the exact same restrictions regarding signing free agents that they are now.
Vitti uttered three words that surely applies to how Bryant made two free throws on one leg, walked off the court on his own and processed his rehabilitation plan amid the pain, frustration and tears.

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Re: Is Our Season (Possibly Our Future) Screwed?

Postby JGC on Tue May 22, 2012 9:49 pm

Just thought I'd add, regarding the CP3 deal, that as I understand it, Stern vetoed the trade as the owner of the Hornets. Not as commissioner of the NBA.

Not saying it wasn't a dbag move because it was, but, Jim or Jerry could veto a move made by Mitch right? As far as I know, the deal was only agreed to in principal but executed via contract so the ownership would still have the ability to shut it down and they did. So it would be like if Mitch made a move and then Jerry came out, vetoed it and said I want younger players or we're not doing this deal.
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Re: Is Our Season (Possibly Our Future) Screwed?

Postby eltoro on Tue May 22, 2012 11:04 pm

JGC wrote:Just thought I'd add, regarding the CP3 deal, that as I understand it, Stern vetoed the trade as the owner of the Hornets. Not as commissioner of the NBA.

Not saying it wasn't a dbag move because it was, but, Jim or Jerry could veto a move made by Mitch right? As far as I know, the deal was only agreed to in principal but executed via contract so the ownership would still have the ability to shut it down and they did. So it would be like if Mitch made a move and then Jerry came out, vetoed it and said I want younger players or we're not doing this deal.



Whenthe Hornets found themselves without an owner, the ownership of the club lieswith the NBA. Stern lied to the Hornets and entire New Orleans bball front office when he repeatedly told them that all basketball decisions including drafts, trades, free agent signings, etc would be made by New Orleans front office without any influence from the NBA office including him.
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Re: Is Our Season (Possibly Our Future) Screwed?

Postby therealdeal on Wed May 23, 2012 8:53 am

JGC wrote:Just thought I'd add, regarding the CP3 deal, that as I understand it, Stern vetoed the trade as the owner of the Hornets. Not as commissioner of the NBA.

Not saying it wasn't a dbag move because it was, but, Jim or Jerry could veto a move made by Mitch right? As far as I know, the deal was only agreed to in principal but executed via contract so the ownership would still have the ability to shut it down and they did. So it would be like if Mitch made a move and then Jerry came out, vetoed it and said I want younger players or we're not doing this deal.


Except that at the time his excuse was "basketball reasons", not "I want a better deal". If I remember correctly he hinted at the idea that a Hornets team without Chris Paul would look unattractive to buyers. That's not a legitimate reason for an objective owner to veto that decision. If he had said from the beginning that he wanted a better deal, that's different. Instead he waffled and made excuses which is why most people were upset with the result.
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Re: Is Our Season (Possibly Our Future) Screwed?

Postby The Rock on Fri May 25, 2012 10:01 am

http://www.ocregister.com/sports/lakers-355878-million-nba.html

EL SEGUNDO – There has been plenty of genius in Lakers management making the playoffs 31 out of the 33 seasons Jerry Buss has owned the team, winning the Western Conference almost half those years (16 times!), collecting 10 perfectly gold NBA championship trophies.

Some genius stuff.

And the rather useful ability to throw money at their problems.

They've thrown it wisely, make no mistake, but they've thrown it.


The image of the Lakers' front office as Mitch Kupchak, Jim Buss and Jerry Buss walk unsteadily toward the future of this NBA under this new CBA is having to hand over all their familiar weaponry.

There's Kupchak slouched over even more than usual to remove a stack of bills tucked into the back of his waistband, Jim Buss lifting up his familiar headgear to show he's not hiding any of the big, old mid-level salary exceptions under the cap, Jerry Buss raising a frayed cuff of those youthful jeans he won't stop wearing and handing over for ridiculous revenue-sharing contributions whatever private checkbooks are tucked into his socks.

It's a veritable political cartoon that makes NBA owners in Cleveland, Sacramento and other small markets happy even if their own teams aren't winning.

"The rules," Kupchak said Wednesday, "are different."


And that economic reality, even more than Kobe Bryant nearing his 34th birthday, makes the Lakers' spiral the past two seasons all the more worrisome for fans oh-so-spoiled when it comes to on-court success.
Not only do the Lakers need to improve their team now, they need to do it while shedding payroll – not adding it.

Insert grim-faced video clip (and scary background music foreshadowing bloodshed) of NBA deputy commissioner Adam Silver from the lockout last year, saying: "A GM that is given $100 million to spend, as opposed to a GM that is given $50 million to spend, is at a huge competitive advantage. And that's something we want to fix in this deal."

Now the Lakers must slash payroll dramatically by the season after next to get under the luxury-tax threshold and avoid the whopping new tax penalties they would then have to pay in 2014-15.

Although it has become so commonplace that hardly anyone ever mentioned it this season, the Lakers were the highest-spending team in the NBA again at $85.7 million, easily ahead of Boston's $79.5 million and Miami's $77.3 million. Their seven highest-paid players are all under contract for next season also unless Ramon Sessions opts out, in which case the Lakers probably wind up paying Sessions even more so that trading away two first-round draft picks to get him in March wasn't a complete waste.


Kupchak's comments Wednesday made clear the club has no intention to use the amnesty clause soon, validation of the impression Metta World Peace made with his return to health and vigor the last half of the season.

The only free-agent lure the Lakers can throw out there this July to add a player is the mini-mid-level salary-cap exception that starts around $3 million. To show you how little that is worth, $3 million is what the Lakers spent to sign Josh McRoberts last year. (And sadly for them, he didn't come close to earning it.)
There's also the issue of the Lakers not wanting to offer more than a one-year contract – McRoberts got only a two-year deal for the same reason – because they don't yet know how they're doing to dodge those looming tax penalties in 2014-15. (Those future salary concerns also limit the talent the Lakers are willing to take back in trade for Pau Gasol or for the trade exception that was Lamar Odom.)
Other NBA teams will be able to offer free agents wanting to change teams their room under the cap or mid-level exceptions starting at $5 million-plus and maybe lasting four years.

So in summary, if the Lakers are going to sign anyone good, that player will probably be very old, very confident in Bryant's ability to win another title or just very stupid.

But before the letting looming money matters guarantee all gloom and doom in Lakerland, let's get back to the other basis for the franchise's past success: the genius.

It's hard to imagine a better deal than one that would've teamed Bryant with Chris Paul, then 26, and Andrew Bynum, 24. But the one tangible takeaway from the non-trade trade is that the Lakers were prepared to take that big risk and make that radical change.

They were going to jettison Gasol and Odom despite Gasol being an All-Star the three previous seasons, Odom just being named Sixth Man of the Year and both of them still looking like champions on a team most believed simply lacked the energy to drive in 2011 to the NBA Finals for a fourth consecutive season.
Even though few title teams have ever been built on the combination of star point guard and star shooting guard, the Lakers were ready to take the ball out of Bryant's hands and try it.

The Lakers, unlike too many other front offices in sports, are simply not afraid of the unknown.
Whether the move for Mike Brown ultimately pans out, bolting so definitively from the Phil Jackson regime was in keeping with the Lakers' consistent boldness. Go back to when they went to hire Jackson in the first place in 1999, and the Lakers were breaking then from the club's position to focus only on big-money players, not big-money coaches.

The kinship between Bryant and Buss over the years has been rooted in them both being calculating gamblers, wholly unafraid to take their shots.

So as we survey the Lakers' rocky landscape these days, what is the full picture of the future?
Successful gambling is about money, no doubt.
But it's also about daring.
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