Pau Appreciation: UnBullievable, no S&T - Thx 4 the Memories

Would you re-sign Pau for ~7 million per?

Yes
53
38%
No
71
52%
Maybe (explain)
12
8%
 
Total votes : 136

Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:53 am

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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby lakersin4 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:18 am

KareemTheGreat33 wrote:I'll bet my balls, he'll play like Spain NT Pau when he's with another team. I have no doubt about it. He'll have something to prove then.

Here he's been coasting for 3 years, cashing in checks and calling it the day. He's done.

I agree. He's going to go to a new team & play amazing ball.. But barring us bringing Phil back, he's never going to play like that for us again. He doesn't fit with Dwight, but he also seems to need a fresh start. Trading him is inevitable.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby khmrP on Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:36 pm

lakersin4 wrote:
KareemTheGreat33 wrote:I'll bet my balls, he'll play like Spain NT Pau when he's with another team. I have no doubt about it. He'll have something to prove then.

Here he's been coasting for 3 years, cashing in checks and calling it the day. He's done.

I agree. He's going to go to a new team & play amazing ball.. But barring us bringing Phil back, he's never going to play like that for us again. He doesn't fit with Dwight, but he also seems to need a fresh start. Trading him is inevitable.


he might but I bet his inspired ball will only last for so long once teams start pounding on him.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby therealdeal on Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:18 pm

lakersin4 wrote:
KareemTheGreat33 wrote:I'll bet my balls, he'll play like Spain NT Pau when he's with another team. I have no doubt about it. He'll have something to prove then.

Here he's been coasting for 3 years, cashing in checks and calling it the day. He's done.

I agree. He's going to go to a new team & play amazing ball.. But barring us bringing Phil back, he's never going to play like that for us again. He doesn't fit with Dwight, but he also seems to need a fresh start. Trading him is inevitable.

Why would he play that way for Phil? He didn't in 2011.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby odom1year on Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:12 pm

Pau is soft, but he's the most efficient guy of Lakers in offense after he returned.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby Doc Brown on Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:13 pm

odom1year wrote:Pau is soft, but he's the most efficient guy of Lakers in offense after he returned.


Prove it. Show me the stats and prove it.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:14 pm

Doc Brown wrote:
odom1year wrote:Pau is soft, but he's the most efficient guy of Lakers in offense after he returned.


Prove it. Show me the stats and prove it.



Check his post history..... check his post history...... please..... :man10:
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion (p.270: Out 2 Games w/Concussion)

Postby lotus on Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:25 pm

GoldenKnight wrote:Cmon guys, cut it with these GTFO comments to a player who we wouldn't have title in 09 & in 10 with. Show some respect at least for the guy. He needs to be moved I agree & his defense is terrible, but don't kick the guy while he's down.

Where the heck does this "sympathy defense" come from whenever someone is tired of Pau? I can't think of another player, except maybe Odom, where people argue he should be kept because his feelings would be hurt, or he's too depressed, or he's down on his luck, etc. Whether those things exist, he still makes his contract money amd therefore he has a responsibility.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby odom1year on Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:33 pm

Doc Brown wrote:
odom1year wrote:Pau is soft, but he's the most efficient guy of Lakers in offense after he returned.


Prove it. Show me the stats and prove it.


No matter starting or coming out as a bench, he did his job well. At some points, he played worse than last season. It's because the gameplan is completely changed. I couldn't stand with MDA. Besides zero in defense, he simply cannot sort out the issues in offense. For this Lakers, our superior advantage is internal offense. We have D12 and Pau. Arguely the best Twin Towers of the league. What did MDA do in offense ? D12 5 shots a game, Pau shooting 3-ball, no action about a guy shooting 17/54 in last 2 games.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion (p.270: Out 2 Games w/Concussion)

Postby JGC on Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:41 pm

lotus wrote:
GoldenKnight wrote:Cmon guys, cut it with these GTFO comments to a player who we wouldn't have title in 09 & in 10 with. Show some respect at least for the guy. He needs to be moved I agree & his defense is terrible, but don't kick the guy while he's down.

Where the heck does this "sympathy defense" come from whenever someone is tired of Pau? I can't think of another player, except maybe Odom, where people argue he should be kept because his feelings would be hurt, or he's too depressed, or he's down on his luck, etc. Whether those things exist, he still makes his contract money amd therefore he has a responsibility.


Well, I think he is saying that people should consider the past with respect to discussing players. I personally don't agree with that notion, but as long as people are consistent in their beliefs (i.e. apply the same logic across all players), I think it's fair.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby 432J on Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:15 pm

someone please explain this to me

how does pau thrive playing alongside a 7 footer in bynum but just fails to produce playing alongside dwight? i just dont understand how this works.

please explain to me in depth about this conundrum
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby karacha on Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:17 pm

He really thrived playing with Odom. Not so much with Bynum.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby D.B. Cooper on Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:36 pm

432J wrote:someone please explain this to me

how does pau thrive playing alongside a 7 footer in bynum but just fails to produce playing alongside dwight? i just dont understand how this works.

please explain to me in depth about this conundrum

What are you talking about, did you even watch the Lakers in 08-11?
Pau and Odom = Finals
Pau and Bynum/ Howard = Mess
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby Pig Miller on Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:40 pm

D.B. Cooper wrote:
432J wrote:someone please explain this to me

how does pau thrive playing alongside a 7 footer in bynum but just fails to produce playing alongside dwight? i just dont understand how this works.

please explain to me in depth about this conundrum

What are you talking about, did you even watch the Lakers in 08-11?
Pau and Odom = Finals
Pau and Bynum/ Howard = Mess


yep exactly.

the guy also thinks that dwight "flat out sucks". if that's the case, hopefully we can move him for reggie evans and call it good.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby LooN3y on Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:49 pm

D.B. Cooper wrote:
432J wrote:someone please explain this to me

how does pau thrive playing alongside a 7 footer in bynum but just fails to produce playing alongside dwight? i just dont understand how this works.

please explain to me in depth about this conundrum

What are you talking about, did you even watch the Lakers in 08-11?
Pau and Odom = Finals
Pau and Bynum/ Howard = Mess



all egos, Pau no doubt should be the initiator in the post, in both bynum/howard tandems.

its just ridiculous how many times bynum wouldnt dish out on the double team, its just ridiculous, it maybe contributed to the fact u have kobe on the team and u want to score every touch u get, but imean god its better than just killing our offensive rhythm.

and do not get me started with howard, how is one of the worst post up bigmen, going to ask to be posted up more and not run simple P&R plays. howard is even worse than bynum, no touch at all.

its all egos imo, i think they clearly can play to win, but howard wants to be a respected post player, and its shown, he doesnt want to do P&R and have people say kobe and nash are baby feeding him.

honestly, i never thought dwight was going to post up as much as he did this season, i really thought it was going to be P&R and have gasol create or assist in the post in terms of inside game.

i dont know why howard all of a sudden thinks hes a kareem, hakeem, or ewing, its just ridiculous, not saying he shouldnt expand his game, but he just shouldnt be pushing it if he cant even hit a turn around jump hook and dont even hit the rim
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby Doc Brown on Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:54 pm

odom1year wrote:No matter starting or coming out as a bench, he did his job well. At some points, he played worse than last season. It's because the gameplan is completely changed. I couldn't stand with MDA. Besides zero in defense, he simply cannot sort out the issues in offense. For this Lakers, our superior advantage is internal offense. We have D12 and Pau. Arguely the best Twin Towers of the league. What did MDA do in offense ? D12 5 shots a game, Pau shooting 3-ball, no action about a guy shooting 17/54 in last 2 games.


So are you going to prove it or just give me this random collection of inaccuracies?
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby Doc Brown on Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:59 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:
odom1year wrote:Pau is soft, but he's the most efficient guy of Lakers in offense after he returned.


Prove it. Show me the stats and prove it.



Check his post history..... check his post history...... please..... :man10:


. :man10:

It would be entertaining to see how many times he/she hasn't watched the games and then complained about something that if you watched the games, you would know that isn't true at all.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby thisbjgz on Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:01 pm

Despite Pau playing like an absolute sissy...all the blame isnt entirely his. I've had it with this MDA experiment. At first I have to admit I've embraced and told myself to move on from Phil..but this guy..he doesn't know how to coach a basketball team to it's strengths..i think he's still stuck in his own world thinking this is 2006 2007 where he had all his Suns staff and players..this is not the right team for that kind of pace..the reason we are terrible defensively is because he is running this team at a pace where they can't even get back to basic defense, not to mention he doesn't even PREACH DEFENSE. How come can Tiago Splitter and Duncan co exist? I don't buy the whole "twin tower" thing can't co exist..I believe Pau can flourish with Dwight..just not only MDA..now if we had the triangle? ..Totally different.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby 432J on Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:07 pm

Pig Miller wrote:
D.B. Cooper wrote:
432J wrote:someone please explain this to me

how does pau thrive playing alongside a 7 footer in bynum but just fails to produce playing alongside dwight? i just dont understand how this works.

please explain to me in depth about this conundrum

What are you talking about, did you even watch the Lakers in 08-11?
Pau and Odom = Finals
Pau and Bynum/ Howard = Mess


yep exactly.

the guy also thinks that dwight "flat out sucks". if that's the case, hopefully we can move him for reggie evans and call it good.

i know that pau and bynum didn't exactly flourish alongside one another but you can't say that he's playing anywhere near better alongside dwight. obviously if phil was coach it would be different but that's a whole different story

dwight is clearly not 100% and we don't know if he ever will be. just by seeing him get stripped 10 times a game it is clear he's still ailing. also, with the team playing like crap and bound to miss the playoffs, we have no reason to think that dwight will stay a laker, given he didn't want to be in LA in the first place.

why take the risk and lose him for nothing when they can move him now and get something in return?
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby The Rock on Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:39 pm

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/01/22/gasol-and-howard-a-bad-mix-under-dantoni-sound-familiar/

HANG TIME NEW JERSEY – Mike D’Antoni is right. The Lakers have been much better with only one of their two $19 million big men on the floor than with both of them together.

That was D’Antoni’s explanation when he said before Monday’s game in Chicago that Pau Gasol would be coming off the bench until further notice. And the numbers back D’Antoni up, even after the Lakers lost to the Bulls by 12 in a game in which Gasol and Dwight Howard played just seven minutes together.

Lakers efficiency with Gasol and/or Howard on the floor
Code: Select all
On floor    MIN    OffRtg    DefRtg    NetRtg    +/-
Gasol + Howard    612    102.7    103.5    -0.8    -14
Gasol only    329    110.7    101.0    +9.7    +61
Howard only    736    108.1    100.5    +7.5    +83
One of the two    1,065    108.9    100.7    +8.2    +144


OffRtg = Points scored per 100 possessions
DefRtg = Points allowed per 100 possessions
NetRtg = Point differential per 100 possessions

Offensively, with both Gasol and Howard on the floor, the Lakers have scored at a rate that would rank 12th in the league. With only one of the two on the floor, they’ve scored at a rate that would rank second.

Defensively, with both Gasol and Howard in the game, the Lakers are defending at a rate that would rank 19th in the league. With only one of the two in the game, they’re defending at a rate that would rank ninth.


Overall, with Gasol and Howard on the floor together, the Lakers have the point differential of a 37-win team. With only one of the two on the floor, they have a point differential of a 61-win team.

The question, of course, is why the Lakers can’t play well with two of the best big men in the league on the floor together. And it’s hard not to point at the coach, because things were OK before D’Antoni took over.

Lakers efficiency with Gasol and Howard on the floor together
Code: Select all
Coach    GP    MIN    OffRtg    DefRtg    NetRtg    +/-
Brown    5    135    110.8    95.4    +15.5    +41
Bickerstaff    5    130    105.4    100.8    +4.6    +6
D’Antoni    18    346    98.6    107.7    -9.1    -61


Five games apiece for Mike Brown and Bernie Bickerstaff are small sample sizes, but it’s clear that the Lakers’ early issues weren’t with their bigs. When they got off to a 1-4 start under Brown, the bench was more of a problem.

The big man issues under D’Antoni are on both sides of the ball. Offensively, Gasol is a different player when he’s on the floor with Howard. In those 612 minutes, just 44 percent of his 208 shots have come from the paint. With Howard on the bench, 67 percent of Gasol’s 109 shots have come from the paint.

D’Antoni’s system calls for three shooters around a point guard (who can also shoot) and a pick-and-roll big man. And Gasol can’t space the floor like a true stretch four.

Gasol’s shooting with Howard on and off the floor
Howard on/off FGM FGA FG% %FGA paint
Howard on floor 83 208 39.9% 44.2%
Howard off floor 54 109 49.5% 67.0%

Here’s the thing: Gasol played 5 1/2 seasons with Andrew Bynum. And with Bynum on the floor, Gasol still took 66 percent of his shots from the paint, because Phil Jackson‘s offense allowed for two post players. The Lakers were a very good offensive team with the two bigs on the floor together.

Defensively, the Lakers have breakdowns all over the place this season, mostly with guards Steve Nash and Kobe Bryant. But there’s no clear explanation why they’re much better with only one of the two bigs on the floor. It may be a foot speed issue, and they may just be able to recover better with a smaller, quicker player at the four. Under Jackson, they were better defensively with Lamar Odom at the four than with Bynum and Gasol out there together.

Still, this is all kind of ridiculous. And it’s all too familiar. On the last team D’Antoni coached, he had two guys making about $40 million combined who couldn’t play well together either.

Under D’Antoni, the New York Knicks were a minus-137 and absolutely awful defensively in 1,506 minutes with Carmelo Anthony and Amar’e Stoudemire on the floor together. The coach’s inability to get his two stars on the same page is a big reason he isn’t in New York anymore. Under Mike Woodson, the Knicks are even (plus-0) in 497 minutes with Anthony and Stoudemire on the floor together.


The Lakers probably aren’t going to be making another coaching change. Instead, Gasol is probably on his way out the door. And we can only wonder what might have been had L.A. hired Jackson when they let go of Brown in November … or if they had just kept Brown.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby dj vitus on Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:48 pm

So, all we need are shooters who play defense. AK47 still possible to get?

Wasn't our Nash/Meeks/Kobe/Metta/Dwight lineup doing fairly well? Wonder why we went away from that...
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby khmrP on Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:54 pm

dj vitus wrote:So, all we need are shooters who play defense. AK47 still possible to get?

Wasn't our Nash/Meeks/Kobe/Metta/Dwight lineup doing fairly well? Wonder why we went away from that...


cause Meeks missed shots and was basically useless when he doesn't hit his shots and is also another defensive liability
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:08 pm

Moving Pau to the bench was the right move. While I love his passing ability him and Howard haven't been able to run a two man game like Pau and Drew did. On the defensive end it is still about talking which we don't do. Pau needs to embrace the 6th man role and dominate when he is on the floor. He has to be aggressive 100% of the time.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:19 pm

Dwight & Pau don't work, IMO. It was a good move by MDA. The next best move is for management to trade him...
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: $19,000,000 sixth man

Postby revgen on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:47 am

Translated

Pau Gasol: TURNING POINT AND LEAK

The most negative situation since Pau Gasol's NBA player has reached a point of no return in the Lakers, at least while Mike D'Antoni is the coach, and that seems guaranteed until end of season. Gasol's professional relationship coach and has been a pulse from the first matches of D'Antoni on the bench, in parentheses liar dinner at Restaurant Petros in Manhattan Beach last December 19.

If we go by the latest developments Mike D'Antoni has lost the plot, if it came to South California with them in hand. A coach who puts a player, whoever he is, to substitute in a match holder and substitute the following in the third, within five days without medical advice through no defense, justification, authority or conviction . A D'Antoni signed him to run a team with four untouchables totaling $ 75 million salary this season. First tried to play a player of 2.13 m. 32 years tall and seven meters from the hoop. Look situations Gasol shot in the final season of Phil Jackson and compare:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ting/2011/

The decision to sit home to one of the four untouchables, to give discreet plan to play 24 minutes per game, is to waste the excess capital invested. D'Antoni has launched the cracking of the substitution of Gasol in Chicago because I knew after the defeat in Toronto to the situation and the results could get worse in the next twelve games. Nine of them are away from home and many rivals before class. D'Antoni has realized that it is not able to get more with what you have. He knows that his system is not flexible or adaptable to the two towers and laying Gasol wants to accelerate the handover process to see if a four or three and a half open (type Rudy Gay, Josh Smith ..) and at least one reinforcement perimeter can be attached to the playoffs carriage and thus ensured the start of next season on the bench.

Until a week ago Pau Gasol was committed, staying in encabezonado Lakers to overcome the situation. When he heard the Monday morning of his anger was multiplied substitution and approaches extent to which dragged on for days and his agent Arn Tellem, who has requested an interview with General Manager Mitch Kupchak. There is one month to the transfer deadline but time is running fast for the Lakers, their classification and because with every game, every decision and every press conference coach Pau Gasol can lose a potential economic value transfer and increase the difficulty for the same. And that is an incalculable injury to a franchise that lost the oremus in its calculations of the last two years.

Antoni Daimiel


http://blogs.canalplus.es/daimiel/

The auto-translation is awful, but the basic jist is that Pau is pissed off about being benched and his relationship with D'Antoni is not good. His agent, Arn Tellum, has requiested a meeting with Mitch Kupchak.

The reporter, Antoni Daimiel, is a Spanish reporter working for Canal+. He specializes in FIBA and NBA basketball coverage.
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