Pau Appreciation: UnBullievable, no S&T - Thx 4 the Memories

Would you re-sign Pau for ~7 million per?

Yes
53
38%
No
71
52%
Maybe (explain)
12
8%
 
Total votes : 136

Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Lakerjones on Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:58 am

Greatest of All Time wrote:
Finwë wrote:
Greatest of All Time wrote:
Finwë wrote:LMAO @ that 3 team, 18 player trade someone suggested. Not likely


Let's ignore the whole 18 player trade thing no matter how unlikely it is. That's just an example of what they could do. Would you not take Millsap/Parsons/whatever over Pau Gasol at this point? Parson's potential is very intriguing, especially in this offense. I'd take him over Derrick Williams.

Yes an 18 player deal is really unlikely but if I'm each team and I consider the benefits of the deal and conclude that it would help improve my team, I'd at least explore options to see if they can come up with a deal that everyone accepts. Maybe they could restructure it to include less players, maybe they'd need 4 teams I don't care, as long as it could help my team. If I'm Jim Buss and someone told me I could possibly make a deal that would improve the team and save money but it involved a huge 3-team trade, I wouldn't let that stop me. Were you laughing at that Steve Nash thread when it was just wishful thinking by a fan?

Trading Pau virtually requires at least 3 teams. If we consider other stretch 4s like Ryan Anderson, Aldridge, David West etc., you'd have to think those teams don't want Pau straight up. So you'd need to find a third team who wants Pau and can offer enough incentive to help the Lakers get the stretch 4. This is similar to the Dwight Howard situation where the Magic couldn't get what they wanted in a straight up deal so they orchestrated that crazy 4 team deal to make it work. Except Pau's trade value is ten times lower and nobody really wants him.

Kirilenko, Williams, and Ridnour sounds nice but Kirilenko is going to get injured sooner or later. You just have to hope and pray it's nothing significant or something that lingers but he's good for missing at least 10 games a season.

Of course I'd take that trade, I was just stating that it's a very unlikely scenario and maybe we should refrain from discussing such ideas and start with simpler, more possible & most importantly actually rumored ones.


What rumored deals are there really? The Josh Smith deal is probably just something released by his agent. And what makes something like that more realistic than a 3-team trade? Because it's less complicated? It might be less complicated but those negotiations would never really get serious when you consider that Atlanta has absolutely no reason to pay Pau for an extra year.That scenario is even more unlikely than a 3-team trade. I'd think that the Jazz would be morewilling to accept a deal that saves them money and nets them return for Millsap and the Rockets would be more likely to want Pau Gasol than the Hawks would be willing to pay Pau Gasol $19 million for an extra year.

I realize that the 18 player trade was a little outrageous so I simplified it as much as I could. I got it down to 9 players:

Image

Utah saves $7,900,000.00 in 2012-2013, $6,900,000.00 in 2013-2014, and $14,800,000.00 total over the next 2 seasons with this deal.

Houston gets Pau Gasol. They don't have a backup 2 or 3 but they keep Lin, Asik, Harden and Patterson. Marcus Morris might be able to play some 3 for them.

The Lakers take on an additional $388,250.00 in salary and pay an extra $388,250.00 in luxury taxes. However, next season, they'd save $9,100,000.00 in 2013-2014 plus $13,650,000 in luxury taxes (taxes multiplied by 1.5 for repeat offenders next season). In total, they'd save $8,711,750.00 in guaranteed salaries over the next 2 years.

The Lakers would need to cut Sacre and DJO and someone like Ebanks and try to dump Clark's expiring on someone to make enough room.

The trade can be adjusted so the Lakers get Raja Bell and the Jazz get Earl Clark. If they do this, the Lakers take on an additional $2,688,250.00 in salary this season plus $2,688,250.00 in taxes. They save $9,100,000.00 in salaries next season for a total savings of $6,411,750.00 in guaranteed salary over the next 2 seasons. The Jazz save $10,200,000.00 this year, $6,900,000.00 next year, and $18,300,000.00 total in salaries if Bell and Clark are included.


Very interesting scenario. I would love to get Millsap. That's the first good sounding trade for Pau I've heard. I don't want Josh Smith at all.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby lakersin4 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:24 am

Why are we getting all those fowards in that scenario? Jamison & Ron are good. I like Millsap & Parsons but the throw in's need to be wing players or a PG. Marvin & White would be useless on this team. This also makes no sense at all for Utah.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby GoldenKnight on Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:31 am

Greatest of All Time wrote:
Finwë wrote:
Greatest of All Time wrote:
Finwë wrote:LMAO @ that 3 team, 18 player trade someone suggested. Not likely


Let's ignore the whole 18 player trade thing no matter how unlikely it is. That's just an example of what they could do. Would you not take Millsap/Parsons/whatever over Pau Gasol at this point? Parson's potential is very intriguing, especially in this offense. I'd take him over Derrick Williams.

Yes an 18 player deal is really unlikely but if I'm each team and I consider the benefits of the deal and conclude that it would help improve my team, I'd at least explore options to see if they can come up with a deal that everyone accepts. Maybe they could restructure it to include less players, maybe they'd need 4 teams I don't care, as long as it could help my team. If I'm Jim Buss and someone told me I could possibly make a deal that would improve the team and save money but it involved a huge 3-team trade, I wouldn't let that stop me. Were you laughing at that Steve Nash thread when it was just wishful thinking by a fan?

Trading Pau virtually requires at least 3 teams. If we consider other stretch 4s like Ryan Anderson, Aldridge, David West etc., you'd have to think those teams don't want Pau straight up. So you'd need to find a third team who wants Pau and can offer enough incentive to help the Lakers get the stretch 4. This is similar to the Dwight Howard situation where the Magic couldn't get what they wanted in a straight up deal so they orchestrated that crazy 4 team deal to make it work. Except Pau's trade value is ten times lower and nobody really wants him.

Kirilenko, Williams, and Ridnour sounds nice but Kirilenko is going to get injured sooner or later. You just have to hope and pray it's nothing significant or something that lingers but he's good for missing at least 10 games a season.

Of course I'd take that trade, I was just stating that it's a very unlikely scenario and maybe we should refrain from discussing such ideas and start with simpler, more possible & most importantly actually rumored ones.


What rumored deals are there really? The Josh Smith deal is probably just something released by his agent. And what makes something like that more realistic than a 3-team trade? Because it's less complicated? It might be less complicated but those negotiations would never really get serious when you consider that Atlanta has absolutely no reason to pay Pau for an extra year.That scenario is even more unlikely than a 3-team trade. I'd think that the Jazz would be morewilling to accept a deal that saves them money and nets them return for Millsap and the Rockets would be more likely to want Pau Gasol than the Hawks would be willing to pay Pau Gasol $19 million for an extra year.

I realize that the 18 player trade was a little outrageous so I simplified it as much as I could. I got it down to 9 players:

Image

Utah saves $7,900,000.00 in 2012-2013, $6,900,000.00 in 2013-2014, and $14,800,000.00 total over the next 2 seasons with this deal.

Houston gets Pau Gasol. They don't have a backup 2 or 3 but they keep Lin, Asik, Harden and Patterson. Marcus Morris might be able to play some 3 for them.

The Lakers take on an additional $388,250.00 in salary and pay an extra $388,250.00 in luxury taxes. However, next season, they'd save $9,100,000.00 in 2013-2014 plus $13,650,000 in luxury taxes (taxes multiplied by 1.5 for repeat offenders next season). In total, they'd save $8,711,750.00 in guaranteed salaries over the next 2 years.

The Lakers would need to cut Sacre and DJO and someone like Ebanks and try to dump Clark's expiring on someone to make enough room.

The trade can be adjusted so the Lakers get Raja Bell and the Jazz get Earl Clark. If they do this, the Lakers take on an additional $2,688,250.00 in salary this season plus $2,688,250.00 in taxes. They save $9,100,000.00 in salaries next season for a total savings of $6,411,750.00 in guaranteed salary over the next 2 seasons. The Jazz save $10,200,000.00 this year, $6,900,000.00 next year, and $18,300,000.00 total in salaries if Bell and Clark are included.


Can you also squeeze Jefferson, Harden & Lin to come tot he Lakers? Seriously...who would do this terribly unfair trade? Utah doesn't want crap players while trading away Millsap...& the rockets won't let go of Parsons & also include White who they wasted a pick on...give me a break...
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Center Court on Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:32 am

just bench this guy for 3 weeks. Give Hill big mins, Jamison the starter.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby lakersin4 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:39 am

GoldenKnight wrote:
Can you also squeeze Jefferson, Harden & Lin to come tot he Lakers? Seriously...who would do this terribly unfair trade? Utah doesn't want crap players while trading away Millsap...& the rockets won't let go of Parsons & also include White who they wasted a pick on...give me a break...

It's likely they'd unload White as he's been nothing but problems. Parsons is their second best player though. But I could see them taking that deal simply because they get a potential allstar PF without giving up Lin, Harden, or Asik. Morey is all about adding stars & it's a great win now move for them. A more realistic deal would see Houston sending Patterson to Utah & getting Marvin along with Pau. We need to include 3 cheap contracts to avoid cutting players. DJO, Sacre & hopefully Houston wants Blake. Pau, Marvin, Blake.. That's a solid win now package for Houston.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby GoldenKnight on Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:52 am

Kobe Bryant calls out Pau Gasol

LOS ANGELES -- For the second time in five games, Los Angeles Lakers forward Pau Gasol watched the final minutes of the fourth quarter from the sidelines. Kobe Bryant says that Gasol has to take it into his own hands to change that.

"Put your big-boy pants on," Bryant said after the Lakers' 113-103 loss to the Orlando Magic on Sunday that dropped the team's record to just 8-9. "Just adjust. Just adjust. You can't whine about it. You can't complain about it."


http://espn.go.com/losangeles/conversations/_/id/8704495/kobe-bryant-los-angeles-lakers-calls-pau-gasol-loss
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Greatest of All Time on Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:11 am

Are you people just looking at the picture and ignoring everything else I wrote or something? That's not even the only deal they can make. Pieces can be added/shifted. Picks and cash can be exchanged. The teams can decide how to set it all up. I'm just showing that it's technically possible and I clearly explained the Jazz's incentive of saving money from unloading Millsap (who's going to walk after this anyway) and Marvin Williams (2 years $16 million left) and taking on smaller, cheaper contracts. They have young players they want to develop. Rebuilding teams don't want to pay guys huge money while they're in rebuild mode. These are like rebuilding strategies 101.

Lose Millsap for nothing, pay Marvin Williams $16 million

Resign Millsap, limit Favors' development, still pay Marvin Williams $16 million while the team has no clear plan

Trade Millsap for some cheap young players, unload Marvin Williams $16 million, start Favors and Kanter full-time, and go full rebuild mode

Which of these scenarios would you choose if you were the Utah Jazz?
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby wcsoldier81 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:30 am

He's challenging Scola for the most non-athletic player in the league right now ... next step is to lose a jumpball against a point guard
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby borri on Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:51 am

Boy, if only Isaiah Thomas was still a GM for some team in this league.......
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby borri on Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:53 am

Oh and STAT is looking better and better by the day.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:15 am

I don't think he's going to adjust to this system. Maybe the Gasol during our championship years, but this Gasol is not healthy, doesn't look engaged, and will eventually lose his starting job if he continues to play like he has been.

I have a feeling he's going to be traded. MDA alluded to something that most of us knew already; he said this steam struggles athletically. Well, when you have an older, slower roster, that tends to be the case, obviously. I wouldn't be surprised if Pau was moved for some younger moving parts that are more athletic.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby khmrP on Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:29 am

borri wrote:Oh and STAT is looking better and better by the day.


really, even in a suit? :man10:
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby CornMonkey on Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:35 am

Pau's "I have knee tendinitis" is code for "Good luck trading me now, Mitch!"
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby themasterphil on Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:41 am

We need to trade him for some young players or three point shooters....he is finish in this league and his contract is just pathetic....19 mil player on the bench in final Q because he deserve that is unacceptable for this team
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Greatest of All Time on Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:20 am

Here’s another revision I made. Due to the size of Pau Gasol’s salary, 9 players was the smallest amount of players I could include without trading away Houston’s core of Asik, Lin, and Harden. Some of these players are included in the deal for salary matching purposes.

Image

Jazz:
-Get the Lakers 2013 second round pick. Send them Grizzlies’ top 55 protected pick if needed.
-They have $8.6 million committed to Paul Millsap, who’s a free agent after this season
- $8.3 million this season and $8.3 million next season committed to Marvin Williams
-They would owe $25.2 million total to those two guys in the next 2 years
-Trading those contracts saves them money and nets them cheap replacements
-Marcus Morris is a Marvin Williams clone at ¼ the price, Cook, Cole, and Aldrich are all expiring contracts totaling $7.6 million.
-They would owe $7.6 million to those 3 expirings plus $1.9 million this season and $1.9 million next season for a total of $11.4 million.
-Trading those guys saves them $7.4 million this year and $6.4 million next year for a total of $13.8 milion over 2 years
-If they don’t trade Millsap, they risk letting him walk after the season and they have to continue paying Marvin Williams
-If they decide to keep Millsap, there will be an issue with playing time because the franchise is trying to develop their Favors and Kanter frontcourt
-Corbin benched Millsap in favor of Favors in a close win against Sacramento. Marvin Wiliams was also benched.

Lakers:
-Owe $19 million to Pau this season and $19 million next season for $38 million over 2 years
-If they make this trade, they would owe $19.2 million to the players this season so they’d pay an extra $0.2 million in luxury tax
-Next season, they would only owe $9.7 million guaranteed and they could save $9.3 million that season and $9.1 million saved in guaranteed salaries over the next 2 seasons
-Montejunas was included for salary matching purposes. He can be swapped with another player. For example, they could agree to take on Royce White, who has been a major headache to deal with this season.
-No contracts run guaranteed past 2014 so their 2014 free agent plan is still intact

Houston:
-Keep their core of Asik, Lin, and Harden and also Patrick Patterson
-Get Pau Gasol for a young prospect in Parsons, a tweener backup in Marcus Morris, and expiring contracts
- McHale has a mancrush on Pau Gasol
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby borri on Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:25 am

khmrP wrote:
borri wrote:Oh and STAT is looking better and better by the day.


really, even in a suit? :man10:


Dude should be back by the time things get consummated anyways. Last I heard it's 6-8 weeks for a non surgical recovery from a ruptured cyst.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby The Rock on Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:29 pm

Im on the fence about trading Pau. I still think we can win a championship with him. If a trade were to be made it better be for someone who fits right in and addresses several needs of the team. I dont want our team to trade Pau just for the sake of making a change. We can't be making changes just because we face the slightest of adversity here and there, absorb this, work on this together as a team and come out on top. I still have a lot of faith in this roster as currently constructed to win a championship. Nash's injury, Dwights FT shooting, Pau's attitude and lack of consistency has really messed this season up so far. All those things are fixable. This is not a talent problem like last year.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby khmrP on Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:31 pm

The Rock wrote:Im on the fence about trading Pau. I still think we can win a championship with him. If a trade were to be made it better be for someone who fits right in and addresses several needs of the team. I dont want our team to trade Pau just for the sake of making a change. We can't be making changes just because we face the slightest of adversity here and there, absorb this, work on this together as a team and come out on top. I still have a lot of faith in this roster as currently constructed to win a championship. Nash's injury, Dwights FT shooting, Pau's attitude and lack of consistency has really messed this season up so far. All those things are fixable. This is not a talent problem like last year.


Pau's D and slow footedness is NOT fixable, to me anyways
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby The Rock on Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:36 pm

khmrP wrote:
The Rock wrote:Im on the fence about trading Pau. I still think we can win a championship with him. If a trade were to be made it better be for someone who fits right in and addresses several needs of the team. I dont want our team to trade Pau just for the sake of making a change. We can't be making changes just because we face the slightest of adversity here and there, absorb this, work on this together as a team and come out on top. I still have a lot of faith in this roster as currently constructed to win a championship. Nash's injury, Dwights FT shooting, Pau's attitude and lack of consistency has really messed this season up so far. All those things are fixable. This is not a talent problem like last year.


Pau's D and slow footedness is NOT fixable, to me anyways


fair enough but we've seen him get punked on Defense before. It happens every year. It happened in the playoffs too. We're seeing things that we've seen him struggle with even during years when we won the championship. He just used to contribute so much on offense that his defensive struggles didn't matter. Right now hes sucking on offense too and hence the defensive struggles are amplified.

We were up 7 with like 7 mins left yesterday, Pau didnt re-enter the game for the last 6mins I think and even with Jamison we lost the game. Had we won yesterday would Kobe and others be getting on Pau this much?

Pau is part of the problem...one of the bigger problems on the team but we can still utilize him on our way to a championship. We just gotta put more work in on defense and get Nash back
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Doc Brown on Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:41 pm

Nash isn't going to fix Pau. How many wide open jumpers has he gotten? How many times has he got the ball in the lane and been blocked? How many times has he gotten the ball in the post and passed it right out? How about his fumbilitis?

Nash can give him all the passes in the world, the problem isn't A (Nash) to B (Pau), it's B to C and no one can help Pau with that, except himself.

Nash won't help him defensively, won't help him run up and down the floor, won't make him be aggressive with the ball.

He's just a big man on the wrong side of his career and doesn't have what it takes to hang with the bigger, athletic pace of the game today.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Greatest of All Time on Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:42 pm

Pau Gasol has checked out mentally on the team. He dominated in the Olympics. A change in scenery as the primary post option for another team would have him looking back to normal but he's just killing his trade value with his emoness/tendinitis revelation
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Punk-101 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:49 pm

Prime example of the frustrations with Pau: About 8min left in the 4th, Pau playing center, single covered by big baby at the highpost, entry pass by Duhon, pau hot potatos it back to Duhon. No attempt to repost or get better position, duhon passes it back to pau, pau gives it back again without making any move or even surveying the floor. I don't want to say that this dance happened one more time, but i think it did. Anyone else remember this sequence?
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby khmrP on Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:52 pm

Punk-101 wrote:Prime example of the frustrations with Pau: About 8min left in the 4th, Pau playing center, single covered by big baby at the highpost, entry pass by Duhon, pau hot potatos it back to Duhon. No attempt to repost or get better position, duhon passes it back to pau, pau gives it back again without making any move or even surveying the floor. I don't want to say that this dance happened one more time, but i think it did. Anyone else remember this sequence?


yep, Duhon ended up taking a jump shot, some what forced shot as clock was ticking down, he got an open look but that was him pump faking a 3 after the hot potato back and fourth with Pau, nothing Pau did to get him open.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby kosstick on Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:14 pm

The crowd was in disbelief during that sequence
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby frankrj on Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:20 pm

stats don't lie. with Pau in they were winning the game. With Jamison his sad defense was exposed against the Magic and they lose. Seems like old Jamison. You can break bad habits or a person weaknesses. You get what you got. You think Cleveland would let Varejao go over Jamison, Hell, no. Stop getting over excited at veterans who you think are the gift from heaven. Nash is not a savior either. It is defense, defense. Dam, if Kobe, Dwight and Artest can't stop Orlando then there are more problems than blaming Pau, the coach, and so on.
No, I am not a Pau fan. I have no idea how they can solve this.
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