Pau Appreciation: UnBullievable, no S&T - Thx 4 the Memories

Would you re-sign Pau for ~7 million per?

Yes
53
38%
No
71
52%
Maybe (explain)
12
8%
 
Total votes : 136

Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby therealdeal on Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:03 pm

LakersN4 wrote:The odds of Monroe developing into the best position defender in the league like Marc about as good as the chances of him growing to be Hibbert's size. Marc spent his entire career working on defensive fundamentals, Monroe is heading into his 3rd season & would be coming here to a coach that believes offense is the best defense.. By the time we have him learning from a good defensive coach you're talking about a 5th year player who is who he's going to be. He could still improve on that end given a great defensive coach but it's not probable enough to be building an argument.

Who needs him to be the best position defender in the League? He just needs to be good enough and I think he can be if he's put in the right position (i.e. given a good coach and team). Like I've said, if D'Antoni is your coach then don't go spend on Monroe. He's more of an old school Center and obviously that doesn't connect with D'Antoni's coaching. If D'Antoni is your coach then spend on Stephenson or Bledsoe. If a good coach comes in, then spend the money on a 3rd year Center averaging elite numbers.

I (along with many others) have already built an argument for getting him. You just don't like him so you're not going to change your mind.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby LakersN4 on Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:20 pm

therealdeal wrote:
LakersN4 wrote:The odds of Monroe developing into the best position defender in the league like Marc about as good as the chances of him growing to be Hibbert's size. Marc spent his entire career working on defensive fundamentals, Monroe is heading into his 3rd season & would be coming here to a coach that believes offense is the best defense.. By the time we have him learning from a good defensive coach you're talking about a 5th year player who is who he's going to be. He could still improve on that end given a great defensive coach but it's not probable enough to be building an argument.

Who needs him to be the best position defender in the League? He just needs to be good enough and I think he can be if he's put in the right position (i.e. given a good coach and team). Like I've said, if D'Antoni is your coach then don't go spend on Monroe. He's more of an old school Center and obviously that doesn't connect with D'Antoni's coaching. If D'Antoni is your coach then spend on Stephenson or Bledsoe. If a good coach comes in, then spend the money on a 3rd year Center averaging elite numbers.

I (along with many others) have already built an argument for getting him. You just don't like him so you're not going to change your mind.

You used Marc Gasol as an example of why Monroe could be a good defender.. Marc is the best positional defender at C in the leauge, or atleast right there with Noah. That's why I made that statement about him developing the best defensive fundamentals in the league.. That's what it would take for him to become a Marc Gasol.

It's not that I don't like him.. I just don't like him for this team at this time.. It's just like re-signing Jordan Hill to a contract much bigger than his last 1.. If we already had our core of superstars in place, I'd be all for it.. I like Jordan Hill, I like Greg Monroe, I'd love to have both players on our team.. If we had 2 superstars for Monroe to come in & be a 3rd option for I'd be singing a much different tune.. But giving a 3rd option max money isn't going to do anything but hamper our ability to bring in that 2nd superstar to lead the team with Kobe. We take that risk & Monroe doesn't develop into a 20-10 2nd option or our draft pick doesn't develop into a 2nd option & we're stuck in mediocrity until Kobe's contract expires in 2016. If Lebron doesn't opt out, Melo gives us the best chance to compete during Kobe's contract, & that's where our cap space should go if it goes anywhere.. If we could somehow unload Nash's contract & sign Melo & still have enough space to sign Monroe, I'd be in favor of it. But if our plan is to wait for Kevin Love next summer, Monroe is a horrible option to pair with him in the frontcourt.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby therealdeal on Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:48 pm

LakersN4 wrote:You used Marc Gasol as an example of why Monroe could be a good defender.. Marc is the best positional defender at C in the leauge, or atleast right there with Noah. That's why I made that statement about him developing the best defensive fundamentals in the league.. That's what it would take for him to become a Marc Gasol.

Well it was just an example of a player that's a good defender without being very athletic. I didn't say he was going to be AS GOOD as Marc. I might say Roscoe's makes the best fried chicken, but that doesn't mean Popeye's is terrible. I might say that Lexus makes the best affordable luxury models, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't drive an Audi. Monroe can be a capable defender when put in the right situations. Defense isn't predicated on athleticism, it's predicated on effort. If he gets the right coach that can motivate him, he can be a capable defender.

LakersN4 wrote:It's not that I don't like him.. I just don't like him for this team at this time.. It's just like re-signing Jordan Hill to a contract much bigger than his last 1.. If we already had our core of superstars in place, I'd be all for it.. I like Jordan Hill, I like Greg Monroe, I'd love to have both players on our team.. If we had 2 superstars for Monroe to come in & be a 3rd option for I'd be singing a much different tune.. But giving a 3rd option max money isn't going to do anything but hamper our ability to bring in that 2nd superstar to lead the team with Kobe. We take that risk & Monroe doesn't develop into a 20-10 2nd option or our draft pick doesn't develop into a 2nd option & we're stuck in mediocrity until Kobe's contract expires in 2016. If Lebron doesn't opt out, Melo gives us the best chance to compete during Kobe's contract, & that's where our cap space should go if it goes anywhere.. If we could somehow unload Nash's contract & sign Melo & still have enough space to sign Monroe, I'd be in favor of it. But if our plan is to wait for Kevin Love next summer, Monroe is a horrible option to pair with him in the frontcourt.

I don't agree with this method. There was a time when it made sense to wait for a superstar to come here, but it isn't now. No superstar is going to leave their team without seeing LA come up some. They need a draft pick that matters, they need a free agent that's intriguing, and they need some momentum. Cap space isn't good enough right now.

Not to mention Monroe's max is only 13.7 million in the first year.

Kobe- 23.5
Monroe- 13.7
Draft pick- 3.5
Nash- 9.7
= 50.4 million

Nash expires next year
Kobe- 25
Monroe- 14.5
Draft pick- 3.7
=43.2 million

Given rough estimates, that's enough space to sign a max contract aka Love.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Give me that young Center with room to grow in the hand.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:25 pm

LakersN4 wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
LakersN4 wrote:
trodgers wrote:I'm one of Cousins's biggest defenders on this site, but I can't believe that Monroe is within 100 miles of being the problem Cousins is. I simply don't trust Cousins to keep it cool and stay on the court.

He's a headcase sure but he's still a franchise player.. I don't see any way to justify giving a max contract to a 3rd option like Monroe over a franchise player like Cousins. If Monroe was going to be making 7-8M it would be a different story, but it's going to take his max (13.7M) or very close to it for us to be the highest bidders for him & prevent Detroit from matching.. You can't spend that kind of money on a 3rd option in this new CBA & expect to get anywhere. The guys making the big $ have to be the guys that can carry the team.


Maybe.... But 2 things. First, getting players that we can realistically get like Monroe over waiting it out for the hope of getting a 5% shot that the stars align and we get a guy like Love. Monroe is a tradable asset and that's more valuable than cash in the new CBA.

Second.... Cousins is a Fantasy franchise player but in no way will he ever be one in the NBA. You can't center a team on a guy like him. Sac is no better with him than they were without him.... Getting 2/3 the player for 25% less cost is far better than associating the Lakers with this guy..... I'll take a third option that has the right attitude and maturity over a guy like Cousins who has talent but little else.

We don't need to wait for Love, we can get a much better player than either Monroe or Love in Melo this summer.


Melo is fools gold.... No thanks on him being our max player. It's moot any way.... No way he walks away from a max offer. He cares much more about the lifestyle than he does winning. He says the right things but he's proven again and again that he's not a leader on even a deep playoff team.... Much less a contender.

The only way he leaves NY is by trade..... Maybe they want Sacre and Marshall.... He's using LA and Chicago as leverage to ensure the max....
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby LakersN4 on Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:50 pm

therealdeal wrote:
LakersN4 wrote:You used Marc Gasol as an example of why Monroe could be a good defender.. Marc is the best positional defender at C in the leauge, or atleast right there with Noah. That's why I made that statement about him developing the best defensive fundamentals in the league.. That's what it would take for him to become a Marc Gasol.

Well it was just an example of a player that's a good defender without being very athletic. I didn't say he was going to be AS GOOD as Marc. I might say Roscoe's makes the best fried chicken, but that doesn't mean Popeye's is terrible. I might say that Lexus makes the best affordable luxury models, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't drive an Audi. Monroe can be a capable defender when put in the right situations. Defense isn't predicated on athleticism, it's predicated on effort. If he gets the right coach that can motivate him, he can be a capable defender.

LakersN4 wrote:It's not that I don't like him.. I just don't like him for this team at this time.. It's just like re-signing Jordan Hill to a contract much bigger than his last 1.. If we already had our core of superstars in place, I'd be all for it.. I like Jordan Hill, I like Greg Monroe, I'd love to have both players on our team.. If we had 2 superstars for Monroe to come in & be a 3rd option for I'd be singing a much different tune.. But giving a 3rd option max money isn't going to do anything but hamper our ability to bring in that 2nd superstar to lead the team with Kobe. We take that risk & Monroe doesn't develop into a 20-10 2nd option or our draft pick doesn't develop into a 2nd option & we're stuck in mediocrity until Kobe's contract expires in 2016. If Lebron doesn't opt out, Melo gives us the best chance to compete during Kobe's contract, & that's where our cap space should go if it goes anywhere.. If we could somehow unload Nash's contract & sign Melo & still have enough space to sign Monroe, I'd be in favor of it. But if our plan is to wait for Kevin Love next summer, Monroe is a horrible option to pair with him in the frontcourt.

I don't agree with this method. There was a time when it made sense to wait for a superstar to come here, but it isn't now. No superstar is going to leave their team without seeing LA come up some. They need a draft pick that matters, they need a free agent that's intriguing, and they need some momentum. Cap space isn't good enough right now.

Not to mention Monroe's max is only 13.7 million in the first year.

Kobe- 23.5
Monroe- 13.7
Draft pick- 3.5
Nash- 9.7
= 50.4 million

Nash expires next year
Kobe- 25
Monroe- 14.5
Draft pick- 3.7
=43.2 million

Given rough estimates, that's enough space to sign a max contract aka Love.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Give me that young Center with room to grow in the hand.

seriously doubt Kobe & Monroe would be the only multi year contracts going into next season but even if they were, you still have to account for 9 minimum cap holds, roughly 4.5M.. That puts us at 47.7M assuming every other player on the roster next season is a 1 year contract. Assuming the cap jumps to the 63M it's projected to, that still leaves us over 1M short of Love's max. & I can honestly say Kobe-Melo-Love or Kobe-Melo-Monroe would both give us a better shot at winning than Kobe-Love-Monroe.. Even if we managed to get Melo I'd still rather spend that money on Bledsoe than Monroe. Especially if D'antoni is still the coach.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby therealdeal on Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:36 pm

And we come full circle to the fact that if you MUST have Love and you want him over Monroe, then you move Monroe. A 24 (at that point 25) year old Monroe that's producing at an elite level is going to be a movable asset. Especially if you're going to get back less salary in return.

There's little reason NOT to target Monroe and none of your arguments have really stuck. If you don't like the kid it's cool. I think depending on the player we draft he's the right choice though.

Say we draft Exum, I'd love to sign Monroe. If we draft Embiid or Randle, then I probably pass on Monroe.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby halekulani on Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:36 am

i dont really think it matters what big we sign - i think they will drop off from their former self because they probably won't play defense when playing for d'antoni

i think a big improving on the defensive end when d'antoni is the coach is really wishful thinking
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby therealdeal on Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:38 am

halekulani wrote:i dont really think it matters what big we sign - i think they will drop off from their former self because they probably won't play defense when playing for d'antoni

i think a big improving on the defensive end when d'antoni is the coach is really wishful thinking

That's why it's important for him to be fired. Well one of many reasons.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby Magic Skywalker on Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:50 pm

From what I've been told by a Pistons fans, he really sees Monroe as a REALLY good player, with some real talent, which is actually well polished.

He says the biggest problem with Monroe would be an attitude thing. He seems to be way to passive and soft. Says he should never be a first option, and maybe not even a second option, but that he'd be a tremendous third option.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby LakersN4 on Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:52 pm

therealdeal wrote:And we come full circle to the fact that if you MUST have Love and you want him over Monroe, then you move Monroe. A 24 (at that point 25) year old Monroe that's producing at an elite level is going to be a movable asset. Especially if you're going to get back less salary in return.

There's little reason NOT to target Monroe and none of your arguments have really stuck. If you don't like the kid it's cool. I think depending on the player we draft he's the right choice though.

Say we draft Exum, I'd love to sign Monroe. If we draft Embiid or Randle, then I probably pass on Monroe.

There's just as little of a chance that the T'wolves decide what we have to offer is the best they can get for Monroe as there is of us signing him without giving anything up.. So you're saying sign a player to a max deal on the off chance that maybe he'll be the best offer Min gets for Love? I don't follow the logic there..

Also remember that Monroe is looked at as a good building block by many teams because he's still on his rookie contract.. Sure what team wouldn't take a young big putting up 15/9 on his rookie deal? As soon as we offer him that max contract, he either steps up & becomes a 20-10 big or gets labeled as overpaid & has negative value on the trade market.. Look at Larry Sanders.. The Bucks could have had teams lining up to trade for him on his rookie deal.. Now that he got an extension & had a bad season, they couldn't get value from anyone for him on the trade market & the new contract he got isn't even the max.. They would have to add a pick or another valuable piece just to get someone to take on his contract.. That's the same boat we'd be in with Monroe except he'd have a 13.7M max contract to live up to instead of the 4/44 Sanders got. Do you honestly think anyone is giving up value for a 15/9 big with subpar D on a max contract? We would be stuck with him for the life of the contract unless he improved dramatically.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby BadCoaching on Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:35 am

I don't want him.. I have no reason to believe he can string together a full NBA season + playoffs any longer. He hasn't put the work in, he had a partial season this year and he's only getting older. I can really picture him on the bench 50% of the time or more due to injuries, even if the Lakers are competing.

Way passed his prime, not in shape, not hungry/driven and really expect him to pull a Nash on us.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:52 am

Magic Skywalker wrote:From what I've been told by a Pistons fans, he really sees Monroe as a REALLY good player, with some real talent, which is actually well polished.

He says the biggest problem with Monroe would be an attitude thing. He seems to be way to passive and soft. Says he should never be a first option, and maybe not even a second option, but that he'd be a tremendous third option.


With MDA running the show we will not pursue a guy like him. He's not MDA's type of player.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby therealdeal on Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:40 am

LakersN4 wrote:There's just as little of a chance that the T'wolves decide what we have to offer is the best they can get for Monroe as there is of us signing him without giving anything up.. So you're saying sign a player to a max deal on the off chance that maybe he'll be the best offer Min gets for Love? I don't follow the logic there..

No you don't.

I'm saying in a year we SIGN Love by trading Monroe away to a team that wants a 25 year old Center putting up elite numbers. That way we clear money to sign him as a free agent outright. With Monroe off the books for cheaper contract returns, we'd have enough money to sign Love.

LakersN4 wrote:Also remember that Monroe is looked at as a good building block by many teams because he's still on his rookie contract.. Sure what team wouldn't take a young big putting up 15/9 on his rookie deal? As soon as we offer him that max contract, he either steps up & becomes a 20-10 big or gets labeled as overpaid & has negative value on the trade market..

Here's some other names getting paid near max money as big men:

Al Horford (12 Million): 18.6 points/ 8.4 rebounds/ 2.4 assists/ 1.5 blocks
Brook Lopez (14.6 Million): 20.6 points/ 6.0 rebounds/ 0.9 assists/ 1.8 blocks
Joakim Noah (11.1 Million): 12.6 points/11.3 rebounds/ 5.4 assists/ 1.5 blocks
Javale McGee (10.75 Million): 7 points/ 3.4 rebounds/ 1.4 blocks
Josh Smith (13.5 Million): 16.4 points/ 6.8 rebounds/ 3.3 assists/ 1.4 blocks
Roy Hibbert (14.2 Million): 10.8 points/ 6.6 rebounds/ 1.1 assists/ 2.2 blocks
DeAndre Jordan (10.9 Million): 10.4 points/ 13.6 rebounds/ 0.9 assists/ 2.5 blocks
Marc Gasol (14.86 Million): 14.6 points/7.2 rebounds/ 3.6 assists/ 1.3 bocks
Nikola Pekovic (12.1 Million): 17.4 points/ 8.7 rebounds/ 0.9 assists/ 0.4 blocks
Serge Ibaka (12.35 Million): 15.1 points/ 8.8 rebounds/ 1.0 assists/ 2.7 blocks

There's a few more. Some that have jumped up into the 20/10-ish category like David Lee and Al Jefferson. Then there's others like Derrick Favors and Nene and Kris Humphries who haven't. But the point is that Monroe puts up comparable numbers to those guys and would be easily movable like Nene and Humphries were.

LakersN4 wrote:The Bucks could have had teams lining up to trade for him on his rookie deal.. Now that he got an extension & had a bad season, they couldn't get value from anyone for him on the trade market & the new contract he got isn't even the max..
Actually they could still move him if they really wanted to. A young shot blocker? I mean the return wouldn't be great, but we wouldn't be looking for a great return in MY scenario anyway. We'd be looking for probably a pick and some cap relief to clear space to sign Love. That's assuming Love demands the max from us.
LakersN4 wrote:They would have to add a pick or another valuable piece just to get someone to take on his contract..
I disagree. They'd have to just adjust their expectations on the return until he gets back to form. But he's got some pretty major character issues going on right now. Monroe does not.
LakersN4 wrote:That's the same boat we'd be in with Monroe except he'd have a 13.7M max contract to live up to instead of the 4/44 Sanders got. Do you honestly think anyone is giving up value for a 15/9 big with subpar D on a max contract? We would be stuck with him for the life of the contract unless he improved dramatically.
Boston traded for Kris Humphries. Washington traded for Nene. Phoenix traded for Okafor. Brook Lopez is constantly on the block.

Of course someone would take him. Again, just because you don't like him doesn't mean he's bad. Trodgers just showed you he puts up elite numbers at the age of 23. Do YOU seriously think that most teams WOULDN'T want him?
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:03 pm

At this point it's clear it's a personal dislike of Monroe. The argument against is thin and has bee pretty well destroyed.

However..... The point is moot because no big with talent will be coming here with the Mitch/MDA team at the helm.

I hope we do get pieces to trade and Monroe or players like him are what we lack. Without them we have no flexibility and having Max money is not really going to land us the next star we need.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby Pig Miller on Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:23 pm

if you can get monroe, you go ahead and grab him. he's not flashy, or super athletic, but he can play. i'd like to see us get monroe and lowry, draft a swing player, and all of a sudden you at least have a respectable team that is playoff caliber and a couple moves away from competing.

lowry will probably get about 9 a year, and he's still got solid trade value if you have to move him.

first move though, get rid of MDA
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby revgen on Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:41 am

The impressive part of Monroe's double-double averages this season is that he's doing it on a team with another big who's averaging a double-double too. Sometimes it's easy to peddle the "stat padding on a bad team" argument if a guy is averaging a double-double on a awful squad all by himself. But not when he's having to share the rebounding duties with another capable rebounder.

Watching him play, he always seems to be productive despite his small stature, especially when he played C before Drummond came along. But his play never seemed to help his team too much. Maybe Detroit isn't the right fit for him.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby last stand on Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:27 am

revgen wrote:The impressive part of Monroe's double-double averages this season is that he's doing it on a team with another big who's averaging a double-double too. Sometimes it's easy to peddle the "stat padding on a bad team" argument if a guy is averaging a double-double on a awful squad all by himself. But not when he's having to share the rebounding duties with another capable rebounder.

Watching him play, he always seems to be productive despite his small stature, especially when he played C before Drummond came along. But his play never seemed to help his team too much. Maybe Detroit isn't the right fit for him.


Monroe to me is Lamar odom. He's a vital piece to a title contender but he's not going to elevate a bad team to a good team

But put him with great players and he'll be that piece that makes it all flow. He's a great glue guy. He'll give you 16ppg 10rpg 4apg at center with a good team and that'll be the difference most nights.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby therealdeal on Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:43 am

^ Pretty spot on. I'd love to have him here because I think it'd give Kobe a reliable low-post presence again. Someone who isn't injury prone and can pass the ball very well. I don't think he'd be Pau Gasol to Kobe, but then again I don't think Kobe can be what he was back then anyway.

I'd love to see us grab Stephenson (or draft a young wing) and grab Monroe. Monroe + Kobe + Young Dynamic Wing (Parker or Wiggins or Exum) along with maybe Hill and Young if we can swing that... Throw in Farmar/Marshall and you've got a pretty nice young team there. Some good mojo and some luck and they could fight for the 8th seed.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby Damian Necronamous on Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:28 am

Landing Wiggins/Parker in the draft and Darren Collison, Boozer and Pau in Free Agency would put us back in the playoffs, provided that D'Antoni isn't our coach.

Unfortunately, the chances of landing Wiggins or Parker are pretty damn slim.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby laakers on Fri May 09, 2014 12:15 am

Is there any way we package Pau for Steph Curry?
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby wcsoldier81 on Fri May 09, 2014 2:58 am

laakers wrote:Is there any way we package Pau for Steph Curry?


Curry no .. Lebron or KD is more likely
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby kenzo on Fri May 09, 2014 3:12 am

It's better/easier to grab Lillard and Aldridge for pau. Portland will do it :man9:
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby LakerFan1235 on Sun May 11, 2014 11:51 pm

Now that MDA is gone I definitely want Pau to sign with us for cheap.
Every time I begin to ask, "Is he really as great as I think he is?" ...He proves that he is.
Every time I begin to wonder...He proves it...That is why I won't lose hope in him.
You know who I am talking about.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby revgen on Mon May 12, 2014 3:06 am

^Only if we don't snag Monroe.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Postby Doc Brown on Mon May 12, 2014 5:40 am

There is no scenario where we should resign Pau.

He's not coming on a year deal or a two year deal for with a team option for cheap. He wants a multi-year deal and we would be stupid to give him one.
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