Pau Appreciation: UnBullievable, no S&T - Thx 4 the Memories

Would you re-sign Pau for ~7 million per?

Yes
53
38%
No
71
52%
Maybe (explain)
12
8%
 
Total votes : 136

Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Chillbongo on Sun May 05, 2013 1:45 pm

People actually think Chicago is thinking about giving up Rose? :man10:
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby last stand on Sun May 05, 2013 1:59 pm

did i really read bulls sending rose to the lakers for pau

do we then flip artest for anthony davis :man10: :man10:
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Vasashi17 on Sun May 05, 2013 2:25 pm

Doc: If we make a move right now for Pau that locks up a player that we can put next to Dwight, then I'm all for it. I just don't think many teams would take in a salary like Pau's. So instead, we'll probably have to deal him for secondary or tertiary talent that might not even put us ahead of the game and if next summer comes and Bron is available, we'll be kicking ourselves.

If Bron doesn't pan out next summer, you still have the ability to make additions with lesser talent (ie role players). The reality is that Pau is probably not going to bring back a Rose, a Love or even a Bron for that matter...so swing for the fences if an opportunity comes up, but if you cap strap the team with role players before you get a real good feel for how the 2014 crop turns out, it would be bad business. For example, RFAs could possibly want to bolt and a Washington or anybody for that matter could sign off on a S&T to LA. You just never know...one thing I don't want to find out, is that we finally do come to know and are restricted in doing something about it, cause we just traded Pau just to trade him.

Personally, I would trade Nash over Pau right now.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Chillbongo on Sun May 05, 2013 2:44 pm

Trade Nash & amnesty MWP. I don't think Nash for Lowry is out of the question, albeit Nash's health. IF he proves healthy who knows. Lowry might walk after the season, at least a shell of Nash gives them something.

Hell, let's give them Clark/Blake + Nash for Lowry and Fields. I love Clark/Blake but if can net us Lowry and Fields, who are not long term and relatively cheap, not a bad deal at all.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby slimjim on Sun May 05, 2013 4:52 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:Doc: If we make a move right now for Pau that locks up a player that we can put next to Dwight, then I'm all for it. I just don't think many teams would take in a salary like Pau's. So instead, we'll probably have to deal him for secondary or tertiary talent that might not even put us ahead of the game and if next summer comes and Bron is available, we'll be kicking ourselves.

If Bron doesn't pan out next summer, you still have the ability to make additions with lesser talent (ie role players). The reality is that Pau is probably not going to bring back a Rose, a Love or even a Bron for that matter...so swing for the fences if an opportunity comes up, but if you cap strap the team with role players before you get a real good feel for how the 2014 crop turns out, it would be bad business. For example, RFAs could possibly want to bolt and a Washington or anybody for that matter could sign off on a S&T to LA. You just never know...one thing I don't want to find out, is that we finally do come to know and are restricted in doing something about it, cause we just traded Pau just to trade him.

Personally, I would trade Nash over Pau right now.


Exactly how I feel atm. Unless Pau is traded for a capable running mate next to howard for the future, no point in letting go of the 2014 plan. I don't want pau to be traded for marginal starters/role players. 2014 is going to be an important summer IMO. Dwight + Max contract + LA the city + Lakers the franchise is a tempting scenario for any player.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Battle Tested20 on Sun May 05, 2013 4:58 pm

^^ Yep, I'm down with this as well
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby JGC on Sun May 05, 2013 5:02 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:Doc: If we make a move right now for Pau that locks up a player that we can put next to Dwight, then I'm all for it. I just don't think many teams would take in a salary like Pau's. So instead, we'll probably have to deal him for secondary or tertiary talent that might not even put us ahead of the game and if next summer comes and Bron is available, we'll be kicking ourselves.

If Bron doesn't pan out next summer, you still have the ability to make additions with lesser talent (ie role players). The reality is that Pau is probably not going to bring back a Rose, a Love or even a Bron for that matter...so swing for the fences if an opportunity comes up, but if you cap strap the team with role players before you get a real good feel for how the 2014 crop turns out, it would be bad business. For example, RFAs could possibly want to bolt and a Washington or anybody for that matter could sign off on a S&T to LA. You just never know...one thing I don't want to find out, is that we finally do come to know and are restricted in doing something about it, cause we just traded Pau just to trade him.

Personally, I would trade Nash over Pau right now.


This.

I really don't understand the trade Pau for role players mindset. It can only put us in an equal or less favorable position financially, won't net us a championship next season, and doesn't give us more roster flexibility for 2014. So, there is almost no reason to do it other than we're bitter about watching the other teams and feel like we need to trade anything and everything now.

But we're going to be in a unique situation the season after next to wipe the slate clean, start over, and have major roster and cap room flexibility to a degree the vast majority of teams don't and won't have. Why would I want to not have that?
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Weezy on Sun May 05, 2013 8:53 pm

Well I don't know why you wouldn't want to have that, and it's certainly a new and exciting position to be in, in theory. My only issue with it is that if you plan way, then swing and miss, you could end up like Houston before the Harden trade. You go all in for free agents you want and miss, you end up setting for lesser caliber players anyway. At least if we try and trade Pau now, maybe you can get a borderline all-star and some role players, not just role players alone. I say maybe though, nothing is guaranteed going either direction.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby The Rock on Sun May 05, 2013 8:58 pm

Its either Howard or Gasol. Pau is our insurance plan (a weak one at that) if Dwight walks. The minute Dwight is re-signed Pau will be traded or even amnestied. If Pau is traded on draft night, Mitch/Jim have a very very strong feeling Dwight is re-signing. We can't afford to keep this 100 mil roster TONS of penalties are coming, trades/transactions to be made this year will be done with salary cutbacks in mind...its pretty damn hard to drop salary to improve team flexibility + improve team at the same time (which the CP3 trade accomplished before it got nixed...it set us back a good 5 years)
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby The Rock on Sun May 05, 2013 9:05 pm

Check check

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/21/lakers-may-consider-amnesty-of-pau-gasol-this-summer/
Which brings us to the Lakers payroll, which is at $100 million for this season, which under the current system means another $30 million in luxury tax is added to that bill. And that bill makes Lakers ownership uncomfortable.

Without major roster changes the Lakers are on target for about $100 million in payroll next season as well — but under the new punitive luxury tax negotiated in the new CBA the Lakers tax bill would jump to $85 million total. That would be $185 million in payroll, plus they will have new revenue sharing bill that could be up to $50 million.

The Lakers are looking to shave that bill this summer.


They are not going to amnesty Kobe Bryant. That got brought up by some Lakers fans and pundits, but that is not how the Lakers relationship with Kobe works. He is too central to their marketing and identity right now. He is the Lakers.

Waiving Gasol via the “amnesty” provision in July could potentially save them more than $60 million in luxury taxes. They would still have to pay his $19.3-million salary, though he could be snapped up by a bidding team that would owe the Lakers millions to help with that cost.

The Lakers also could try to trade Gasol, but his hefty salary next season could be difficult to move and they would likely have to take back salaries totaling at least $15 million, which wouldn’t really help a goal to avoid ridiculous luxury taxes.


I still think the Lakers will try to trade Gasol in an effort to get more athletic and younger, to get players that can better fit Mike D’Antoni’s preferred system. However, the hard part is the Lakers have a lot of cap space in 2014 (even if the re-sign Dwight Howard to a max deal) and it would be very hard to trade Gasol and not take back salary that impinges on that cap space.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby dj vitus on Sun May 05, 2013 9:14 pm

Who cares if we "impinge" on that 2014 cap space. We can always just dump whoever we got for Pau for draft picks and get back under the cap again. :man11:
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby The Rock on Sun May 05, 2013 9:17 pm

dj vitus wrote:Who cares if we "impinge" on that 2014 cap space. We can always just dump whoever we got for Pau for draft picks and get back under the cap again. :man11:


but that also means we have no insurance if Dwight for some odd reason doesn't re-sign. I hope Mitch/Jim get a good clear sign from Dwight that he'll stay so we can go ahead and trade Pau on draft night. Dwight is the Franchise player now hope he keeps the team's interest in mind as well and doesn't waffle about his decision for weeks into the summer
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby dj vitus on Sun May 05, 2013 9:21 pm

The Rock wrote:
dj vitus wrote:Who cares if we "impinge" on that 2014 cap space. We can always just dump whoever we got for Pau for draft picks and get back under the cap again. :man11:


but that also means we have no insurance if Dwight for some odd reason doesn't re-sign. I hope Mitch/Jim get a good clear sign from Dwight that he'll stay so we can go ahead and trade Pau on draft night. Dwight is the Franchise player now hope he keeps the team's interest in mind as well and doesn't waffle about his decision for weeks into the summer

Well, we are practically a D-League team without Dwight and Kobe anyway. :man11:
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby The Rock on Sun May 05, 2013 9:25 pm

Everything revolves around Dwight-s decision. PLEASE dont be a diva about this. We have to know by draft night whether he's coming back or not. HAVE TO. Hes got 2 full months to think about there is very little reason to wait well into July to make a decision. He might want to see where his buddy Josh Smith is headed and what other transactions are happening so he can go pair up with them but for the Lakers sakes I hope he ignores it
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby davriver290 on Sun May 05, 2013 9:45 pm

I know its business and all.... But if we just face fines and penalties this year, aren't Kobe's and Gasol's contract up after this upcoming season? That's like 50 million in salary being cut after next season. Plus, we can resign them for a lot cheaper..
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby wcsoldier81 on Mon May 06, 2013 12:52 am

Huge costs for little results ... we all can be sure Lakers won't go over the luxury tax limit again after the 2013-2014 season for quite some time ...
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby JGC on Mon May 06, 2013 6:59 am

Weezy wrote:Well I don't know why you wouldn't want to have that, and it's certainly a new and exciting position to be in, in theory. My only issue with it is that if you plan way, then swing and miss, you could end up like Houston before the Harden trade. You go all in for free agents you want and miss, you end up setting for lesser caliber players anyway. At least if we try and trade Pau now, maybe you can get a borderline all-star and some role players, not just role players alone. I say maybe though, nothing is guaranteed going either direction.


Yeah, that's why I was saying the only way I would trade Pau is if you can get the type of big name player now, that you might have otherwise signed via free agency later.

I just don't think it makes much sense to assume you're going to swing and miss and then act based on that assumption. The FO has spent years trying to intentionally line everything up for 2014 so they can hit a homerun, not take a walk.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby dj vitus on Mon May 06, 2013 8:31 am

The Rock wrote:Everything revolves around Dwight-s decision. PLEASE dont be a diva about this. We have to know by draft night whether he's coming back or not. HAVE TO. Hes got 2 full months to think about there is very little reason to wait well into July to make a decision. He might want to see where his buddy Josh Smith is headed and what other transactions are happening so he can go pair up with them but for the Lakers sakes I hope he ignores it

Well yeah of course everything revolves around Dwight re-signing. And I, too, hope he can come back so we don't have to wait 'til July or anything.

That said, what I mean to say is if Dwight leaves, we're pretty much screwed for next year, with or without Pau. But hey we still have our 2014 pick, so maybe it'll be a blessing in disguise. :man9:
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby abeer3 on Mon May 06, 2013 8:40 am

The Rock wrote:Check check

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/21/lakers-may-consider-amnesty-of-pau-gasol-this-summer/
Which brings us to the Lakers payroll, which is at $100 million for this season, which under the current system means another $30 million in luxury tax is added to that bill. And that bill makes Lakers ownership uncomfortable.

Without major roster changes the Lakers are on target for about $100 million in payroll next season as well — but under the new punitive luxury tax negotiated in the new CBA the Lakers tax bill would jump to $85 million total. That would be $185 million in payroll, plus they will have new revenue sharing bill that could be up to $50 million.

The Lakers are looking to shave that bill this summer.


They are not going to amnesty Kobe Bryant. That got brought up by some Lakers fans and pundits, but that is not how the Lakers relationship with Kobe works. He is too central to their marketing and identity right now. He is the Lakers.

Waiving Gasol via the “amnesty” provision in July could potentially save them more than $60 million in luxury taxes. They would still have to pay his $19.3-million salary, though he could be snapped up by a bidding team that would owe the Lakers millions to help with that cost.

The Lakers also could try to trade Gasol, but his hefty salary next season could be difficult to move and they would likely have to take back salaries totaling at least $15 million, which wouldn’t really help a goal to avoid ridiculous luxury taxes.


I still think the Lakers will try to trade Gasol in an effort to get more athletic and younger, to get players that can better fit Mike D’Antoni’s preferred system. However, the hard part is the Lakers have a lot of cap space in 2014 (even if the re-sign Dwight Howard to a max deal) and it would be very hard to trade Gasol and not take back salary that impinges on that cap space.


meh, amnestying gasol is media/fan fantasy, imo. think of it this way: lots of teams have cap space this summer, and i bet only a few of the top FAs (howard, paul, smith, millsap, jefferson, etc.) change locations. all the teams left holding the bag will be looking to get SOMETHING out of their space. a still viable gasol on a one-year deal will be extremely appetizing after the dust settles in FA. i anticipate no moves from the lakers until dwight's decision.

even then, i'm not sure his decision is the major deciding factor for pau's future here. they played fairly well together at the end of the year, and the team may decide that it's worth one more expensive shot with this roster. i think that's unlikely, but i think the rumors of the lakers suddenly cheapening up are overblown. remember, they can still save a ton by amnestying mwp (even more if he opts out).

if howard's on board, i could see management trading pau for young talent/relief (such as the oft-rumored minny deal for d williams). i could also see them moving him for say, shawn marion and dallas's first round draft pick. marion could replace what the team loses in mwp (savvy veteran defender) and the draft pick might help jumpstart the youth movement. other deals like this will be out there if the team is patient.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Mon May 06, 2013 8:54 am

I would love Shawn Marion on this team, but he's really starting to age and I don't think we need anymore old players we need to become young to keep up with the likes of OKC/Miami/ and other up-rising young teams.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Lakerjones on Mon May 06, 2013 8:55 am

I don't think anything gets done with Pau until they find out if Howard is staying or leaving. If he stays I still think the best move might be to trade him for Granger (with maybe one other small contract thrown in coming back to us). Granger is a small forward which is our most needed position right now. With Granger on board it gives us the ability to negotiate with MWP to either restructure that contract or just amnesty him. Granger is also an expiring so he doesn't interfere with the 2014 plan.

The biggest concern as always is health. We don't know how Granger is post-surgery. Is that knee going to hold up? If it does he's actually my favorite small forward whose name we've been throwing around here for the past year or two. He's a legit two way player who can also knock down the long range shot and rebound. He's got way better D than guys like Beasley and Rudy Gay, even if his offense isn't as flashy.

I think Granger could solve some real problems on our roster . . . as long as he's healthy of course. Throw in one of their cheap expiring guards and the trade will work salary-wise. Win win situation, really. They don't want or need Granger any longer since they have Paul George and they get back a heck of an offensive player in Pau.

If we take back Granger (and a guard) we chop 4 to 5 million off the pay roll, and we gain the ability to amnesty MWP and save another 7.7 million. That's 12 million off the books.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Mon May 06, 2013 9:03 am

Danny Granger is actually a great idea... only if we are able to unload some of the dead-weight contracts.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Mon May 06, 2013 9:04 am

Lakerjones wrote:I don't think anything gets done with Pau until they find out if Howard is staying or leaving. If he stays I still think the best move might be to trade him for Granger (with maybe one other small contract thrown in coming back to us). Granger is a small forward which is our most needed position right now. With Granger on board it gives us the ability to negotiate with MWP to either restructure that contract or just amnesty him. Granger is also an expiring so he doesn't interfere with the 2014 plan.

The biggest concern as always is health. We don't know how Granger is post-surgery. Is that knee going to hold up? If it does he's actually my favorite small forward whose name we've been throwing around here for the past year or two. He's a legit two way player who can also knock down the long range shot and rebound. He's got way better D than guys like Beasley and Rudy Gay, even if his offense isn't as flashy.

I think Granger could solve some real problems on our roster . . . as long as he's healthy of course. Throw in one of their cheap expiring guards and the trade will work salary-wise. Win win situation, really. They don't want or need Granger any longer since they have Paul George and they get back a heck of an offensive player in Pau.


Great points, LJ. Considering that we have to take back at least 15 million, if we do get somebody like a Granger, I think we amnesty MWP. We're still going to pay a hefty penalty with the luxury tax. However, with a solid piece like who if healthy can still do the things he did when he was healthy, then I truly believe we have a chance to go deep into the PO's next year.

However, if that doesn't work out; I think we're amnestying Gasol. As the above article mentioned, we'd be saved 60 million dollars just with that move alone. I don't see us going into the season paying 85 million dollars in the luxury tax when we're not close to contending for a championship. Unless we get something back for Gasol that helps immediately, I think he's gone.

If we take back Granger (and a guard) we chop 4 to 5 million off the pay roll, and we gain the ability to amnesty MWP and save another 7.7 million. That's 12 million off the books.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Mon May 06, 2013 9:12 am

Even if we do Amnesty MWP, we need to unload Pau's..... also It would be nice if we can trade Nash for cap-relief/draft pick.... Nash would be a good fit for someone like Dallas... who is trying to get back into contention.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Lakerjones on Mon May 06, 2013 9:21 am

C0TT0NCANDY wrote:Danny Granger is actually a great idea... only if we are able to unload some of the dead-weight contracts.


Yeah, if we trade for Granger we'd take back one of their cheap expiring guards to make it work: Ben Hansborough, or Stephenson. We could let go of Morris and Duhon for sure.
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