Pau Appreciation: UnBullievable, no S&T - Thx 4 the Memories

Would you re-sign Pau for ~7 million per?

Yes
53
38%
No
71
52%
Maybe (explain)
12
8%
 
Total votes : 136

Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby Chillbongo on Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:12 pm

khmrP wrote:yea and the HEAT top 3 players are still in their prime


And what does that have to do with getting potential Laker role players on the cheap?

My argument is still the same....health, a good coach and SOLID role players can do amazing things for an aging core.

Since San Antonio has a core who are ALL out of their primes, take a look at this

Kawahi Leonard, Danny Green, Gary Neal, Tiago Splitter, and Dejuan Blair are on the payroll for a combined $10M

$10M
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby lakerfan2 on Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:19 pm

borri wrote:Pau is good as gone. Too much $$$.

In the meantime, OJ Mayo just opted out. Antoni is having wet dream right now.


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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby therealdeal on Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:24 pm

Chillbongo wrote:
khmrP wrote:yea and the HEAT top 3 players are still in their prime


And what does that have to do with getting potential Laker role players on the cheap?

My argument is still the same....health, a good coach and SOLID role players can do amazing things for an aging core.

Since San Antonio has a core who are ALL out of their primes, take a look at this

Kawahi Leonard, Danny Green, Gary Neal, Tiago Splitter, and Dejuan Blair are on the payroll for a combined $10M

$10M

Yeah but Leonard was a draft pick, Neal was a draft pick, Splitter was a draft pick, and Blair was a draft pick... Green I think they traded for.

We have no picks. And we aren't necessarily alluring right now with just Howard as a young beacon of hope. Not as alluring as the Heat anyway.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby karacha on Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:37 pm

Chillbongo wrote:Kawahi Leonard, Danny Green, Gary Neal, Tiago Splitter, and Dejuan Blair are on the payroll for a combined $10M

$10M


It's not like they signed all these guys as free agents for 10M.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby Chillbongo on Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:50 pm

No, but we don't have $10M so the comparison wasn't intended to be literal.

There is talent out there that is affordable. We can still move MWP and Morris etc for some help. We can also acquire said players on cheap draft contracts.

Also being in Los Angeles, being the Lakers, and having Dwight Howard and Kobe Bryant is more alluring than you're giving it credit for. Of course we're not the Heat. Why so pessimistic around here?
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby karacha on Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:55 pm

I'm definitely not pessimistic. We'll make changes, no worries.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby The Rock on Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:09 pm

The garbage sig strikes again :man1: :jam2:
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby BuzzerBeater on Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:18 pm

This. :jam2:

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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby slimjim on Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:00 pm

therealdeal wrote:I disagree slim. An idea that came up recently was that Ellis wants out of Milwaukee. Trade Gasol for Ellis/Mbah-a-Moute/Henson/Udoh or something like that.

It gives the Lakers the creator/scorer they need right now, some good defensive young athletes to pair with Dwight. Then you re-sign Clark and Jamison, bring back a healthy Hill. Use the mini-MLE to find some youth at the 2 spot.

None of those contracts are hard to move. You've found a piece we can use to pair with Dwight in the future. In 2014 we can still sign another big contract as well as bring Kobe back if we want to.

Trading Gasol isn't giving away your best chance to win at all. He's our best chance to win RIGHT NOW because Kobe is out. But with Kobe back, Gasol is less of a premium.


Hey real, long time no talk :p

I personally don't think Monta is our guy. He's far too ball dominant and has been on the decline for a few years now. He's also a terrible 3pt shooter.

A monta/howard pairing wouldn't go far IMO.

I'd rather run with kobe/pau and use the cap space after they retire to get some players for Dwight.

If you put a gun to my head and said I had to trade pau. Only person I'd take is Kevin love. This is definitely a move for the future, I don't think love is as ready for a championship run as gasol is but he is MUCH younger and a love/howard pairing would work really well IMO.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby khmrP on Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:03 pm

Chillbongo wrote:No, but we don't have $10M so the comparison wasn't intended to be literal.

There is talent out there that is affordable. We can still move MWP and Morris etc for some help. We can also acquire said players on cheap draft contracts.

Also being in Los Angeles, being the Lakers, and having Dwight Howard and Kobe Bryant is more alluring than you're giving it credit for. Of course we're not the Heat. Why so pessimistic around here?


move MWP for who and who would want him? and unlike Mia we're missing multiple pieces, Mia only weakness are the bigs but the way they play and spread you out with their wings it doesn't matter and defensively they trap and are fast at switching everything and there's NO team in the league now that can punish them down low.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby slimjim on Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:32 pm

Weezy wrote:
slimjim wrote:I understand why it makes sense to trade Pau from a financial POV but that's it.

...here's the thing.

If you trade Pau, Kobe isn't getting that 6th ring.

Kobe and Dwight isn't going to get it done in today's league. (Whoever we get in the Pau trade is going to be an up and coming player, not a championship calibur "ready to win now" player.)

I'm confident in the current roster. Sure there are obvious bench pieces that need improvement but a healthy core of kobe/nash/pau/dwight can make 1-2 more runs at the ring. Loving Pau's play as of late. The complete plantar tear was a blessing in disguise, he has a lot of his mobility back.


One, there is no proof that whoever we get for Pau couldn't contribute to a championship, those players might even be the missing pieces. Two, he's not getting his 6th ring WITH Pau and this bad bench anyway IMO and pretty much the only way to improve the bench is to trade Pau. And lastly, what based on this season makes you think our core will be healthy next season? They will be older, Nash will have injuries, Pau will have injuries (he always has at least some), and we don't even know when Kobe will be back. Even if they were healthy though, we're not getting past OKC and Miami, we're too old and those teams run all over us. We do not have a few more runs in this core for a ring, the league has passed us by. We saw the beginnings of it when we played OKC in 2010 in the first round and they gave us all we could handle, we knew it would come one day, then they took us out last season and they would do it this season too if we faced them again. We need to get deeper, younger, and more athletic to catch up.


We definitely need to get younger, deeper, and more athletic. It really depends on who we can get for Pau.

If we can get what you describe? sure! I'm all for it... but realistically, I don't know who this mystery player is... I do like Kevin Love paired with Howard though. I think they could do some damage in the future.

Also, I don't buy the Pau gasol injury prone talk. If you ignore this season, he's only missed 35 games during his entire tenure with the Lakers. Pretty good if you ask me.

He's not even 100% now and he looks pretty good (the complete plantar tear was a blessing in disguise). I like the odds of kobe/howard/pau being relatively healthy. Nash? not so much. but blake has shown he's a capable PG.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby Murdock on Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:14 am

slimjim wrote:I understand why it makes sense to trade Pau from a financial POV but that's it.

...here's the thing.

If you trade Pau, Kobe isn't getting that 6th ring.

Kobe and Dwight isn't going to get it done in today's league. (Whoever we get in the Pau trade is going to be an up and coming player, not a championship calibur "ready to win now" player.)

I'm confident in the current roster. Sure there are obvious bench pieces that need improvement but a healthy core of kobe/nash/pau/dwight can make 1-2 more runs at the ring. Loving Pau's play as of late. The complete plantar tear was a blessing in disguise, he has a lot of his mobility back.

also if you trade pau we have no post pressence on O ... sorry Dwight has no post game ... our best post player would be kobe then looooooooooong nothing and then Jamison, Nash, Artest, Clark ... basically anybody but howard ... that guy is sooo fundamentally unsound it is horrible
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby Weezy on Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:06 am

You can't replace Pau with someone halfway decent who can score in the post by trading him or a signing? We're not talking about trading Pau for a draft pick or cash here, players would be coming back. And I'm not calling Pau injury prone, he's just aging and he's played so much basketball non-stop for years. That leads to a body breaking down, that means more nagging injuries as he ages most likely. That's all I'm saying, I wouldn't count on him being healthy from here on out, just like I wouldn't with Nash at 40, and even Kobe at 35/36 in his 18th season coming back from the Achilles injury.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby Murdock on Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:24 am

Weezy wrote:You can't replace Pau with someone halfway decent who can score in the post by trading him or a signing? We're not talking about trading Pau for a draft pick or cash here, players would be coming back. And I'm not calling Pau injury prone, he's just aging and he's played so much basketball non-stop for years. That leads to a body breaking down, that means more nagging injuries as he ages most likely. That's all I'm saying, I wouldn't count on him being healthy from here on out, just like I wouldn't with Nash at 40, and even Kobe at 35/36 in his 18th season coming back from the Achilles injury.

Who then? Young players with that talent are in different salary range .. and you won't get two great talents for pau alone ... you can get decent players but then you undervalue him
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby Rooscooter on Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:42 am

Murdock wrote:
Weezy wrote:You can't replace Pau with someone halfway decent who can score in the post by trading him or a signing? We're not talking about trading Pau for a draft pick or cash here, players would be coming back. And I'm not calling Pau injury prone, he's just aging and he's played so much basketball non-stop for years. That leads to a body breaking down, that means more nagging injuries as he ages most likely. That's all I'm saying, I wouldn't count on him being healthy from here on out, just like I wouldn't with Nash at 40, and even Kobe at 35/36 in his 18th season coming back from the Achilles injury.

Who then? Young players with that talent are in different salary range .. and you won't get two great talents for pau alone ... you can get decent players but then you undervalue him


Trading Pau will bring back 20.5 million in salary.... you're saying we can't find depth, speed and youth with that?

Pau's age and milage is catching up with him.... he's not going to be the 2009 Pau ever again.

One more thing... if we allow he and Kobe to expire at the same time we will go below the cap..... and that is not a good thing because we can't go above it again through FA signings so to make that 20.5 million result in players that will be useful in the near future we have to "cash in" that chip or we will be a lottery team....Dwight or not.... because we will have nearly no one under contract, Dwight on the books for 20+Million, Nash for 9M (I think) and if we resign Kobe after next year he will not be making less than Howard IMHO so that's another 20M.... that leaves 9 to 10 Million and a MLE to fill out a roster with 11 players....
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby lakerfan2 on Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:33 am

Murdock wrote:
Weezy wrote:You can't replace Pau with someone halfway decent who can score in the post by trading him or a signing? We're not talking about trading Pau for a draft pick or cash here, players would be coming back. And I'm not calling Pau injury prone, he's just aging and he's played so much basketball non-stop for years. That leads to a body breaking down, that means more nagging injuries as he ages most likely. That's all I'm saying, I wouldn't count on him being healthy from here on out, just like I wouldn't with Nash at 40, and even Kobe at 35/36 in his 18th season coming back from the Achilles injury.

Who then? Young players with that talent are in different salary range .. and you won't get two great talents for pau alone ... you can get decent players but then you undervalue him


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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby therealdeal on Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:08 am

slimjim wrote:Hey real, long time no talk :p

I personally don't think Monta is our guy. He's far too ball dominant and has been on the decline for a few years now. He's also a terrible 3pt shooter.

A monta/howard pairing wouldn't go far IMO.

I'd rather run with kobe/pau and use the cap space after they retire to get some players for Dwight.

If you put a gun to my head and said I had to trade pau. Only person I'd take is Kevin love. This is definitely a move for the future, I don't think love is as ready for a championship run as gasol is but he is MUCH younger and a love/howard pairing would work really well IMO.

Seriously man, where you been? :man10:

I don't disagree that Monta is a perfect fit or anything, I just think without Kobe he's a good fit, that might be available right now. Other than that, there's not a whole lot of options for guys that can create shots for themselves and others. If there was one thing clear in that Houston game it was that when the chips are down, we don't have someone like Monta who can break a defense down and get to the rim. Career average he's a 20/4/5 guy and we could really use that.

Then when the time comes a Kobe/Monta back court (maybe even Nash if he's still around) would be pretty entertaining.

I would absolutely LOVE to put Kevin Love and Howard together. I think that's a match made in heaven. Two guys that would eat rebounds up all game long and yet could still space the floor. I mean heck if Ryan Anderson looked so good next to Howard, how do you think Love would look??

But... That doesn't fix our athleticism problem and it doesn't seem likely that Kahn gives us Love for Gasol. If he did, if that was still on the table, then I might pull the trigger just because like you said it would really be a good look in a couple of years. If we started no where else but with Love/Howard we could build a ring around that for sure. I just don't think Kahn does it.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:23 am

Steve Kyler Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA 17 Apr
RT @blnguyen89: where do you see pau Gasol playing next season? ---> No sense of it, Lakes have shopped him and very few interested parties


Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA 17 Apr
RT @lakerholicz: Gasol has shown since getting healthy that he still is a world class player. ---> yep, thats owed $19 million #toughmoney


Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA 17 Apr

RT @lakerholicz: ---> if Gasol were making $5 to $10 million, you'd never move him. He's talked about because of the $ not his play.


Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA 17 Apr

RT @acekiker: --> Lakers have $99.8 million in salary... next year the tax on that number is $83.2mil, just the tax. in 2014 its $112.8mil


Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA 17 Apr
RT @concrusher: ---> The Lakers will always be a top spender, but the days of a $100 mil payroll are going away.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby khmrP on Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:24 am

if he's willing why not use the stretch provision on Pau, 2 yrs 9mill/yr...dips a bit into 2014 cap plan but then he'll expire same time as Nash for 2015 if Nash last that long.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby JGC on Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:32 am

^ I would not want to see a Kobe/Monta backcourt. They're basically the same player type, of course, with Monta being a much poorer version of Kobe. They are both highly ball dominant. The best player to pair Kobe with, is with a guard who doesn't need to be ball dominant, to be effective. It's been 17 seasons, haven't we learned this by now? (Rhetorical question)

With Kobe gone, Monta would be one of a small handful of players who in terms of how he plays, would be a good poor man's replacement for Kobe, that I agree.

Me personally, once Kobe is gone, I'd prefer to see a more traditional PG/SG type combo where the PG dominates the ball and creates for others, and the SG is more adept at scoring (and playing) off the ball. It's just my philosophy that he who dominates the ball the most should create for others and Monta doesn't do that nearly enough for my liking.

Point taken about the Houston example. This team does need at least a couple of players adept at creating their own shot but I don't think it is as critical because if we had a proper PG and the right off-ball players, then we wouldn't have broken down offensively as often as we did in the Houston game either. Steve Nash never really had a ton of great create-your-own-shot type guys, but they posted ridiculous offensive numbers in his Phoenix days. So yeah you do want someone for those end of quarter and end of game type as well as break down type situations but that can be had with a Jamal Crawford type player as well.

Would LOVE, ummm, Love and Howard together. Couldn't think of a better fit for Howard. Well, I think some other guys would make good fits with Howard like Lamarcus Aldridge.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby therealdeal on Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:34 am

khmrP wrote:if he's willing why not use the stretch provision on Pau, 2 yrs 9mill/yr...dips a bit into 2014 cap plan but then he'll expire same time as Nash for 2015 if Nash last that long.

No way. You don't jeopardize the plan to suit Pau.

You trade him or you let him expire.

Personally I don't think it's that far fetched to move Gasol. What if this summer Kirilenko opts out of Minnesota and Pekovic signs a 10 million dollar offer sheet elsewhere? Suddenly Gasol looks much more manageable right?
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby lakerfan2 on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:02 am

Minny has Kevin Love with knee surgery and still recovering from his hand surgery. He's already expressed some disconent with playing in Minny and I don't think that's going to translate well on the court. Like real said, Pek is most likely getting paid, upwards of 10+ because he's a big.

Pau is playing back at somewhat of a high level. Has the Spanish Connection with Rubio and has a massive expiring contract. We can throw in pieces to make it work, or ask for Derek Williams as a kicker to a third team to make things work.

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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby therealdeal on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:08 am

Well it's the fact that Love is the best PF in the game when he's healthy... I don't know if they make that move. I think there's probably a 1% chance of Kahn being THAT stupid.

If Kirilenko leaves and Pekovic leaves they'll be left with not a whole lot down low. Just Love.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby Chillbongo on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:15 am

khmrP wrote:
Chillbongo wrote:No, but we don't have $10M so the comparison wasn't intended to be literal.

There is talent out there that is affordable. We can still move MWP and Morris etc for some help. We can also acquire said players on cheap draft contracts.

Also being in Los Angeles, being the Lakers, and having Dwight Howard and Kobe Bryant is more alluring than you're giving it credit for. Of course we're not the Heat. Why so pessimistic around here?


move MWP for who and who would want him? and unlike Mia we're missing multiple pieces, Mia only weakness are the bigs but the way they play and spread you out with their wings it doesn't matter and defensively they trap and are fast at switching everything and there's NO team in the league now that can punish them down low.

I don't know man, I'm not Mitch. I'm saying trading Pau isn't the only option. If you're set on it, why bother having the discussion? Given the contributions to the team during our recent success, it makes much more sense to move MWP and Nash than Gasol. Obviously, if the return on Gasol is great, just do it. I'm glad Mitch is a poker player unlike most fans here who would give up Pau for some s*** deal from MIN. Lakers are playing poker...we're not giving up Pau unless we get something awesome. It makes much more sense for us to let him expire for 2014.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby therealdeal on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:20 am

We won't be the team that trades a guy away from his kids, Chill.

It won't happen. Nash came here, took less money, to be with his kids and in a situation to win. Obviously it's been a disaster, but we won't just trade him away. I can guarantee that.
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