Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Would you re-sign Pau for ~7 million per?

Yes
38
33%
No
64
56%
Maybe (explain)
12
10%
 
Total votes : 114

Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby slimjim on Sat May 04, 2013 9:13 pm

I can't disagree with any of the above, Pau's healthy and regression are fair points of concern. The sad thing is, I don't think Kobe has a better chance at a ring besides hoping pau is healthy next season.

I'd definitely swap Pau for KG, (he definitely fits the criteria of being able to make a run right away) but how is Mitch going to pull that one off?

It's easy to point fingers and say Gasol has to be traded.

Who is this magical player/package we are going to trade Pau for?

If you can realistically show me a player/package that can compete next season with Kobe. I'd love to hear it and discuss.

Now I'm not saying the Lakers aren't going to explore trades for Gasol...

and besides, I don't think there is a rush to trade pau. Give gasol the summer to get healthy. If he magically reverts to 80% of his 08 days... that's awesome. We run with him.

If he is back to his soft/injured playing self. His trade value won't be affected much because most teams see Gasol as a expiring K anyways. regardless of health.

I'd even make the argument that his trade value should be at its highest towards the trade deadline, regardless of his personal play.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Sat May 04, 2013 9:15 pm

Doc Brown wrote:And then if this is true, what is the point in bringing back MDA? They obviously can't run his offense, so what exactly is he doing besides collecting a check?


The only reason why MDA hasn't even been fired yet is because the Lakers are holding face that firing 2 coaches in span of year will make them look bad in a embarassing fashion.... besides it's not like you don't have the option to cancel season tickets if MDA is back next year.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Legendary on Sat May 04, 2013 9:16 pm

C0TT0NCANDY wrote:
Legendary wrote:lol...

If Pau isn't traded this summer...it's clear as day the FO has their sights on making big moves the following off-season.

Anyone trying to argue that we have a chance at doing ANYTHING of relevance with Pau as a major piece next season, is delusional.

No disrespect.


Problem is the 2014 plan is gonna be the same as the 2005 plan...... nothing of substance is gonna come out of that off-season.... the Lakers need to react now and stop wasting there time.


2014 won't be like 2005. Maybe you can explain this.

And I'm pretty sure we all agree something needs to be done now, and not waste another season.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Sat May 04, 2013 9:20 pm

slimjim wrote:If you can realistically show me a player/package that can compete next season with kobe. I'd love to hear it and discuss.


Kobe is likely gonna sit out next year.... and if Howard signs then it's best to build a team around him... IMO this whole Plan "A" "bringing the team back" talk likely means that the Lakers got the signal that Howard is not gonna come back next year and there just gonna roll the dice and see what happens in the 2014 summer.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Weezy on Sat May 04, 2013 9:25 pm

I don't see why a player/players we get for Pau need to be "magical", they just need to fill some needs. Athletic and can shoot, or athletic and can play defense, doesn't even have to be both in one player, maybe one of each. Who we can get for him, many players have been listed throughout the season, and I'm sure a quick look though 29 rosters will show even more potential out there. If Nash is healthy, Kobe is close to what he was, and Dwight stays and really is better than he showed this season, I don't see why filling in big needs with a Pau trade, even with role players, doesn't make us just as good as we were this season after the All-Star break or better. The bar is pretty low, we can do better, I want some hungry to win players in here, Pau has played "satisfied with 2 rings" for 3 years now.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Sat May 04, 2013 9:28 pm

How can anyone even want Pau back after he got out-played by a unknown trio-some of Matt Bonner/Blair/ tandem in the SA-LAL series? Seriously? do people not realize that Gasol is done?
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Legendary on Sat May 04, 2013 9:38 pm

slimjim wrote:
Who is this magical player/package we are going to trade Pau for?


Magic Wand.

Mitch has experience with it... :man12:

I just hope that Heisler piece was a smokescreen...
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Sat May 04, 2013 9:46 pm

Legendary wrote:I just hope that Heisler piece was a smokescreen...


It's not about it being a smoke-screen or not, but the source sounds like poop... also isn't Heisler also considered a very bad reporter?
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Alleyhoops on Sun May 05, 2013 1:22 am

Pending physical exams, Chicago will send Derrick Rose's nuclear contract to the Lakers for Pau's expiring. Would L.A. be crazy enough to entertain that trade? Rose has more than worn out his welcome in Chicago. But if he's 100% healthy, do you consider it?
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Weezy on Sun May 05, 2013 1:48 am

Alleyhoops wrote:Pending physical exams, Chicago will send Derrick Rose's nuclear contract to the Lakers for Pau's expiring. Would L.A. be crazy enough to entertain that trade? Rose has more than worn out his welcome in Chicago. But if he's 100% healthy, do you consider it?


Is that a joke? I'd trade Pau for even the possibility of Rose close to what he was in a second. Even if he ended up retiring and I could go back and choose whether to do it or not I still would, because we'd be rid of Pau's contract and it would still have been low risk high reward. Why would Chicago trade Rose though, he's their star, their hometown kid? I don't see a worn out welcome, I see him coming back next season just fine. And for Pau? Why would they want another Boozer?
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Sun May 05, 2013 7:03 am

If Howard resigned wouldn't he want the Lakers to be building a team around him? so the Plan "A" talk does not make sense to me at all... this franchise has become a laughing stock.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Vasashi17 on Sun May 05, 2013 8:00 am

^^^Firstly welcome to the site.

Personally, I think Pau is perfect for Dwight. Their high low game looked very promising moving forward. So if Pau stays, I don't really see it as a problem. The problem stems from the fact that D'Antoni believed they couldn't work on the floor together and as we all come accustomed to...if D'Antonit believes it, you do the opposite.

I don't want to turn Pau into a coaching debate, but seriously it all starts there. You need a coach to highlight the strengths on this team.

Kobe, Pau and Dwight are all great post game players and Pau and Kobe (as we've seen) play a really smart floor game. I think Pau needs to get his butt to Germany, get the PRP procedure done and just rest up this summer.

I'm open to trading him of course, but looking at how much cap we open up in 2014, its ridiculous to prematurely trade the guy, not knowing for certain what we may have got next summer. You literally can add a future tandem player along with Dwight next summer...so I'm not eager for a Pau deal unless it brings us back a player that we definitely want as our future core alongside Dwight.

Next season should be an identity building year. Bring in a strong minded coach that knows what a defensive center can do, in terms of title contention. You build around Dwight (not necessarily thinking offense, but defense). With proper direction, this team has the talent to put up points, but they emphasized the wrong things this year and we lost alot of ground before we scrapped it and free-lanced our way to the 7th seed. The talent is there, even with injuries...but there isn't an identity and a concept to get behind.

I think you make the change up top...hold on to Pau and get ready for a quick rebuilding phase in 2014. Normally I ain't patient, but with the countless possibilities next summer, you just don't want to jump the gun.

Fire D'Antoni and make a good hire for a change..bring back the core....try to trade Nash...switch out our expirings for cheap rookie contracts...tweak up the 2nd unit...but all in all, do not add significant cap past next summer. If you trade Pau and are seriously looking for quality depth back, that means you're adding significant cap and limiting yourself next summer.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Doc Brown on Sun May 05, 2013 8:40 am

In response to Vash's post....

1.) Why is that you dog MDA about not preaching defense and how he is all about offense, but when you talk about Pau it's all about his offense and not his defense? D12 and Pau don't work on defense and that's what kills us. Shrugs never rotates, gets lost in rotations and can't keep anyone in front of him on the pick and roll. His defense costs us games more than his offense wins us games. Before this gets put onto coaching, which it inevitably will, Pau's defense has been terrible for years and he has been shrugging ever since the Phil/Bynum days. Pau and D12 don't work defensively because it takes two people playing defense and one of them plays zero of it. Pau will put up his inefficient offense and feed D12 and it "works", but how no one looks at the defense end to see how much they don't work together is beyond me. This will inevitably get back to coaching and Memphis will get brought up, but that doesn't relate to Pau's defense the last 3 years.

2.) Instead of talking about the 2014 plan as a general theme like we are going to get whoever we want. I challenge you to go through the free agents for that year and pick out who we can realistically get that we don't need some outside help to get. Players with team options(nope), qualifying offers (nope, unless we severely overpay), player options (banking on outside help). Who can we straight up say you are coming to LA and other teams have no input on that decision? It's a very select few.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Sun May 05, 2013 8:46 am

^Great post. Pau's defense has been atrocious. There's even been film to back this up. It seemed like when Dwight went to the bench, our defense suffered with Pau attempting to guard the paint. It doesn't work. He's old, slow, and quite frankly needs to be traded for other pieces on this roster that we need to fill.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Punk-101 on Sun May 05, 2013 8:47 am

Doc Brown wrote:
1.) Why is that you dog MDA about not preaching defense and how he is all about offense, but when you talk about Pau it's all about his offense and not his defense? D12 and Pau don't work on defense and that's what kills us. Shrugs never rotates, gets lost in rotations and can't keep anyone in front of him on the pick and roll. His defense costs us games more than his offense wins us games. Before this gets put onto coaching, which it inevitably will, Pau's defense has been terrible for years and he has been shrugging ever since the Phil/Bynum days. Pau and D12 don't work defensively because it takes two people playing defense and one of them plays zero of it. Pau will put up his inefficient offense and feed D12 and it "works", but how no one looks at the defense end to see how much they don't work together is beyond me. This will inevitably get back to coaching and Memphis will get brought up, but that doesn't relate to Pau's defense the last 3 years.



I agree with this 1million% Doc (refer to my sig for god's sake), but let me play devil's advocate. Carlos Boozer, a terrible defensive PF in Thib's system alongside a fantastic defensive center in Noah can somehow produce elite team defense. Is Boozer a better defender than Pau suddenly? Would Pau suck it up in chicago? Could Thib's fix our defense with this roster with Pau?
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Doc Brown on Sun May 05, 2013 8:59 am

Punk-101 wrote:I agree with this 1million% Doc (refer to my sig for god's sake), but let me play devil's advocate. Carlos Boozer, a terrible defensive PF in Thib's system alongside a fantastic defensive center in Noah can somehow produce elite team defense. Is Boozer a better defender than Pau suddenly? Would Pau suck it up in chicago? Could Thib's fix our defense with this roster with Pau?


I think it was you that posted a video of Pau's defense that was broken down in this thread. My question to you is how is Thib's supposed to fix the defense when Pau literally doesn't move?

Boozer can at least move laterally and hedge on pick and rolls. Pau is a statue. Look at his defense regardless of coaching....

1.) Too slow to hedge pick and rolls
2.) Too slow to rotate and stop penetration
3.) Too slow to get back in transition
4.) Very poor lateral movement

Boozer can at least do those things. He isn't the best defender by any means, but he can at least get to the spots he is supposed to for the scheme to work. How can you develop sound team defense when one of the guys can't do the 4 things you need to do? If you can't do the 4 things mentioned above, the team defense is severely negated because they are forced to cover for a player that the scheme wasn't made for. This snow balls into the helper being out of position, then the person that rotates is out of position. And you get what you see from our defense.....Wide open 3's, easy layups, 2nd chance rebounding is awful.

Pau's defense has nothing to do with coaching....

The league is all about pick and rolls, penetrating, transition and athleticism. 4 of Pau's weakest attributes.

It's all about an over the hill player, playing with 3 other over the hill players. We have a group of 30+ players trying to play pin the tail on the donkey with 22-25 year olds running circles around them.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Punk-101 on Sun May 05, 2013 9:07 am

^^

See, that's why I asked. You're right!
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Sun May 05, 2013 9:32 am

If Gasol had a consistent jump-shot then I could argue that he would be a great fit next to Howard, but with Gasol's game right now being effective down-low it's just gonna make Howard and Gasol clog the lane all game long which will hurt the team.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Alleyhoops on Sun May 05, 2013 10:36 am

Weezy wrote:
Alleyhoops wrote:Pending physical exams, Chicago will send Derrick Rose's nuclear contract to the Lakers for Pau's expiring. Would L.A. be crazy enough to entertain that trade? Rose has more than worn out his welcome in Chicago. But if he's 100% healthy, do you consider it?


Is that a joke? I'd trade Pau for even the possibility of Rose close to what he was in a second. Even if he ended up retiring and I could go back and choose whether to do it or not I still would, because we'd be rid of Pau's contract and it would still have been low risk high reward. Why would Chicago trade Rose though, he's their star, their hometown kid? I don't see a worn out welcome, I see him coming back next season just fine. And for Pau? Why would they want another Boozer?

The Bulls owe Rose about 80 mil through 2017. Pau's deal comes off the books after next season. Their salaries are similar. The Chicago fan base is rumbling about Rose, and there's plenty of speculation that he's dealing with some mental issues about his knee. Even his teammates seem to pause and bite their tongues when asked about him. I think there are a number of troubling issues with Rose in Chicago, some of which could spill over to another team in a trade. Personally, I'd like to see him lace em up and get on the floor for the Miami series. Chicago is a great place for him, but I certainly would not rule out him being moved in the off-season.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Rooscooter on Sun May 05, 2013 10:53 am

^^interesting thought. As someone who blew up a knee while playing college football and there is a mental aspect to getting back on the horse so to speak. His game is predicated on quickness and speed, and lateral quickness is the last thing that comes back after a significant knee injury.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby therealdeal on Sun May 05, 2013 11:02 am

I don't think Chicago let's him go that quickly. I think they wait another year and if he's still not living up to that contract or hurt mentally then they'll discuss letting him go.

But it was definitely something that crossed my mind momentarily. They need the offense. I think Pau would actually fit rather nicely next to Noah. I don't know what they do with Boozer, probably amnesty, but it was something that crossed my mind for a moment.

I think what's crazy is that a trade like that might kill Dwight's shoe deal. Would Adidas want both their stars in the same city? So without that 250 million dollar incentive, does Dwight still want to be here long term?

Either way, it wouldn't happen this summer. But it's a fun thought.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Sun May 05, 2013 11:04 am

I still think Pau for Ryan Anderson/1st round pick happens on draft day.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Alleyhoops on Sun May 05, 2013 11:47 am

Atually, I think we might balk at a Rose for Pau swap before Chicago does. Pau had been the subject of rumors going to the Bulls for the past couple of off-seasons. I agree that Pau and Noah works well - probably better than Dwight and Pau. Noah does the banging that Howard does without demanding the ball. That leaves Pau to play his game. And perhaps splitting Carlos' minutes with Gasol is a smart way to keep them both playing at a relatively high level for a few more seasons.

As far as Rose coming here. He's got a large contract through 2017. That would mean, that just between Dwight, Rose and Nash, we're over 50 mil per for awhile with just those three pieces.

JButler is an exciting young player and Chicago is one of the cities that doesn't struggle to attract players. Pau in their lineup makes them a very interesting and formidable team in the East. And it's a gamble with Rose. Do you bring him back for another year? -- I assume his trade value is decent at the moment, but the Bulls could take a brutal hit if he doesn't come back strong next year, and they're locked into him for mega bucks for years to come.

The Adidas deal is an interesting thought. That could play the heaviest role in a deal, although, their creatives would most likely find a way to make it work to their advantage.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Vasashi17 on Sun May 05, 2013 11:58 am

Doc: We all agree that Pau has declined. Not once have I said let's extend him past 2014. So obviously I'm looking at this as short term (which it is). We all saw a great defensive player in Dwight and what injuries can do. So injuries is something to note and as I said in my post, he needs to get right this summer. If he comes back correct, maybe he looks like his sibling..maybe he goes back to his Griz days...and at the very least, maybe he can move like Boozer so that a great coach can better utilize our frontline as Thibs and Hollins have done with their frontline. BTW: out all the active players in the NBA, Gasol is 39th for his career in defensive rating. http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_active.html Obviously, he's been off as of late, but if we need to bear with him for one more year, then go get healthy this summer and lets see what could happen.

In terms of 2014, you have to believe that players who have an ETO in their contract, put it there for a reason. We've seen how Bron played the old CBA to maximize his dollar, while also sacrificing just enough to sport a contender. He's going to do it again in 2014. He can stand to make more by opting out and signing a new max type deal. Obviously Miami can give him more, but getting a 4 year deal as opposed to a 5 year deal allows him to become a free agent for one last big deal when he's 33-34 as opposed to 3-4-35. And if you look at the players that have an ETO, they are pretty much all thinking the same thing. You got Bron, Carmelo and Wall all a possibility and if the possibility is there, you don't muck it up with role players via Pau Gasol's contract.

We're talking one year...so I'm all good in being patient. I understasnd the frustration and management doesnt deserve our patient after rendering this season an absolute waste, but with whats at stake, I believe it would be wiser to not jump the gun. However, what we should not tolerate is going through another season where we float around without an identity and without proper direction.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Doc Brown on Sun May 05, 2013 1:29 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:Doc: We all agree that Pau has declined. Not once have I said let's extend him past 2014. So obviously I'm looking at this as short term (which it is). We all saw a great defensive player in Dwight and what injuries can do. So injuries is something to note and as I said in my post, he needs to get right this summer. If he comes back correct, maybe he looks like his sibling..maybe he goes back to his Griz days...and at the very least, maybe he can move like Boozer so that a great coach can better utilize our frontline as Thibs and Hollins have done with their frontline. BTW: out all the active players in the NBA, Gasol is 39th for his career in defensive rating. http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_active.html Obviously, he's been off as of late, but if we need to bear with him for one more year, then go get healthy this summer and lets see what could happen.


1.) I never accused you saying we should extend him past 2014.

2.) Drew Gooden, Boozer, TMac, Ginobili and Dampier are all ahead of Pau on that list. And this isn't a career achievement award. Here in present time right now, Pau can't play defense worth s***. What does Pau from lets say 2005-2009 have with the Pau we see right now? Where does Pau rank on that list in the last 3 seasons, because that's the Pau we are seeing. Interesting that Pau's name falls off that list in the playoffs.

In terms of 2014, you have to believe that players who have an ETO in their contract, put it there for a reason. We've seen how Bron played the old CBA to maximize his dollar, while also sacrificing just enough to sport a contender. He's going to do it again in 2014. He can stand to make more by opting out and signing a new max type deal. Obviously Miami can give him more, but getting a 4 year deal as opposed to a 5 year deal allows him to become a free agent for one last big deal when he's 33-34 as opposed to 3-4-35. And if you look at the players that have an ETO, they are pretty much all thinking the same thing. You got Bron, Carmelo and Wall all a possibility and if the possibility is there, you don't muck it up with role players via Pau Gasol's contract.


That's it. The big coup of 2014 comes down to 3 players? All 3 of which we need outside help, 1 would make us worse, 2 would need to have drama to get here from the Wizards and 3 hoping someone opts out.

Melo? We are holding out for Melo? That's all we need to pair with Dwight. I chucker that shoots 42% in the playoffs, plays no defense and will be 30 by the time we can get him.

Wall has a qualifying offer. Do you think the Wizards are just going to let him walk for nothing? Batum and Gordon are great examples of teams not giving up their players for nothing on qualifying offers.

So the one player in the 2014 free agents is Lebron.

You're telling me there isn't one deal out there that we can improve now and not risk the 2014 grand plan?
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