Pau Appreciation: UnBullievable, no S&T - Thx 4 the Memories

Would you re-sign Pau for ~7 million per?

Yes
53
38%
No
71
52%
Maybe (explain)
12
8%
 
Total votes : 136

Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Phil XI on Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:06 pm

It's the try to get 15m under cap by summer '13 plan, trading Pau for one year deals.
Put Blake into that deal to Phila as part of the Jefferson trade, getting a 2nd back, and you have a complete Miami style 3-star rebuild for 2013-14:
After next season, amnesty MWP. That only leaves Kobe and Bynum (resigned at current max 15.5) under contract, plus 2 2nd rdrs in '13 draft. Add 8 roster holds, and have Kobe renegotiate under the new 'renegotiate and extend rule' reducing salary to 22.8 (75%). Leaves 15.5 under salary cap for Chris Paul or Deron free agency in summer 13.
New super 3 Lakers: Kobe, CP3 or Deron, Bynum.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby therealdeal on Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:23 pm

I understand that but I don't know if it's the right way to go about it with Kobe's last two runs here. Those teams with three stars need a few years to make it perfect.

Not to mention I was fairly sure you couldn't restructure contracts in this CBA.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Phil XI on Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:20 pm

Wasn't that one of the B-list issues that the lockout fixed?
Contracts and player salaries
• A new "renegotiation and extension" provision allows an existing contract to be renegotiated so the player is paid a smaller amount over a longer period, but the player's salary cannot decrease by more than 40 percent. Renegotiations previously could only increase a player's salary. http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/73294 ... -agreement


Not sure if this exact provision applies but it's worth a shot to get LA breathing room to sign a top shelf FA for Kobe's final run.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby therealdeal on Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:52 pm

Say Kobe restructures his deal on the last leg of his contract: 30,453,805.
40% of that is 12,181,522
30,453,805-12,181,522= 18,272,283.

Coupled with Andrew's 17.4 that's roughly 35.7 million.

It's difficult to predict where the new cap will be but if it is near the 58.044 million it is now the Lakers would have 22.344 million. The cap will likely be lower than that so let's say the Lakers have 21 million. If you keep Ron Artest you can't offer a max contract. If you get rid of him you can and you're left with 6.2 million, the mini-MLE, and the Bi-Annual Exception.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby THE_DAGGER on Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:31 pm

therealdeal wrote:No you wouldn't. I honestly don't care what his pedigree is or who he's trained with. He's a rookie and he hasn't played a single NBA game. How you could possibly compare him to arguably the best point guard in the game is beyond me.

That would be like comparing Anthony Davis to Dwight Howard. The kid has done nothing to show he will be that good. Rivers is the same.

I would rather see the Lakers target an Andre Iguodala or a Michael Beasley. Those guys are proven, they fill a need, and when combined with other pieces can make us a championship caliber team.


I said I think he could provide a similar impact. And in that sense then yes, you can compare Anthony Davis to Dwight Howard. Howard is an athletic defensive anchor, that's his impact. Which is the same impact that Davis is hoped to provide as the projected number one pick. That doesn't mean at the same level or same rate. Similar impact, similar skill set, similar style of play.

Sometimes you can't wait until a player is proven. You have to take a chance, a gamble. That's why it's called a lottery. That's how we wound up with Kobe.

And with proven players comes proven salary. Iguodala makes over $14M. I would take him as a player. But, to trade Gasol for him only saves us about $5M. We're repeat offenders on the luxury tax after next season, which I believe means we pay $2.50 per dollar starting off. Even if we amnesty Artest I still think we'd be over the tax.

We have to dump Gasol's salary to a team that can absorb his contract without giving us much salary back. That happens to be most of these lottery teams. I don't see how my scenario isn't realistic or beneficial from a basketball sense and financial sense. You get a potential all star on a rookie scale contract plus players to bolster our roster now.

If you don't like Austin Rivers' game then that's your opinion. But, I don't believe he'll be a bust. I think he can play now and alongside Kobe. But, that's a chance the front office would have to be willing to take.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby revgen on Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:21 am

I don't forsee Kobe and the FO restructuring his contract.
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Re: 3-Team Trade

Postby JUST-MING on Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:30 am

Phil XI wrote:Lots of chitchat on other site about Ireland's supposed Milsap + Harris for Pau sourced (his) rumor. Possibly with a follow up for Utah of Jefferson for Iggy, balancing out both teams’ lineups. Milsap and Harris would alleviate the Lakers financial issue in 2013-2014 (freeing up Bynum resign money presumably or Dwight).

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7wy8u7p

Los Angeles:
Code: Select all
Outgoing                  Incoming
$19,000,000 Pau Gasol     $19,536,360 Dwight Howard
$16,100,000 Andrew Bynum
Orlando:
Code: Select all
Outgoing                  Incoming
$19,536,360 Dwight Howard $16,100,000 Andrew Bynum
$6,190,000  JJ Reddick    $15,000,000 Al Jefferson
                          Mehmet Okur Trade Except
Utah:
Code: Select all
Outgoing                  Incoming
$15,000,000 Al Jefferson  $19,000,000 Pau Gasol
Mehmet Okur Trade Except  $6,190,000  JJ Reddick
Last edited by JUST-MING on Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Utah Jazz

Postby kosstick on Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:47 am

JUST-MING wrote:
Phil XI wrote:Lots of chitchat on other site about Ireland's supposed Milsap + Harris for Pau sourced (his) rumor. Possibly with a follow up for Utah of Jefferson for Iggy, balancing out both teams' lineups. Milsap and Harris would alleviate the Lakers financial issue in 2013-2014 (freeing up Bynum resign money presumably or Dwight).

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7wy8u7p

Los Angeles:
Code: Select all
Outgoing                  Incoming
$19,000,000 Pau Gasol     $19,536,360 Dwight Howard
$16,100,000 Andrew Bynum
Orlando:
Code: Select all
Outgoing                  Incoming
$19,536,360 Dwight Howard $16,100,000 Andrew Bynum
$6,190,000  JJ Reddick    $15,000,000 Al Jefferson
                          Mehmet Okur Trade Except
Utah:
Code: Select all
Outgoing                  Incoming
$15,000,000 Al Jefferson  $19,000,000 Pau Gasol
Mehmet Okur Trade Except  $6,190,000  JJ Reddick



So how does this trade make us better? Trading away Bynum and Pau for Dwight I thought we were all past this..
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Re: Trade Exception

Postby JUST-MING on Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:48 am

kosstick wrote:So how does this trade make us better? Trading away Bynum and Pau for Dwight I thought we were all past this..

Legit MVP/All-NBA First Team & DPOY/All-Defense First Team in Dwight Howard. Trim payroll, and turning Gasol/Bynum’s contact into a Trade Exception ($18,435,078) for Deron Williams ($17,779,458)
Last edited by JUST-MING on Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Utah Jazz

Postby kosstick on Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:50 am

JUST-MING wrote:
kosstick wrote:So how does this trade make us better? Trading away Bynum and Pau for Dwight I thought we were all past this..

Legit MVP/All-NBA First Team & DPOY/All-Defense First Team in Dwight Howard. Trim payroll, and turning Gasol/Bynum's contact into a Trade Exception for Deron Williams.



Why would Nets do a S&T with us for Deron for a trade exception... I am assuming thats why you want it..
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Re: Deron Williams

Postby JUST-MING on Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:55 am

Vasashi17 wrote:
Stefan Bondy: With Lakers S/T for D-Will, source said the Nets would not do that deal for Pau Gasol. Would rather have cap space.
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Re: Deron Williams

Postby kosstick on Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:05 am

JUST-MING wrote:
Vasashi17 wrote:
Stefan Bondy: With Lakers S/T for D-Will, source said the Nets would not do that deal for Pau Gasol. Would rather have cap space.


If they let Deron Walk wouldn't it be the same thing?
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Re: Compensation

Postby JUST-MING on Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:07 am

kosstick wrote:If they let Deron Walk wouldn’t it be the same thing?

They get cash (trade exception) and additional considerations such as draft picks, rights, et cetera.
Last edited by JUST-MING on Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Deron Williams

Postby kosstick on Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:09 am

JUST-MING wrote:
kosstick wrote:If they let Deron Walk wouldn't it be the same thing?

They get cash and additional considerations, such as draft picks, draft rights, et cetera.


I see, How many picks do we have left I feel like we traded a lot of them, we can only trade up to 2 future 1sts at a time right?
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Re: Considerations

Postby JUST-MING on Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:11 am

kosstick wrote:How many picks do we have left I feel like we traded a lot of them, we can only trade up to 2 future 1sts at a time right?

3-Team Trade. Los Angeles. Orlando. Utah. They’re trading two All-Stars for Howard, I’m expecting a pick sent this way. Whether it’s the draft rights of an unsigned draftee or future picks.
Last edited by JUST-MING on Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Phil XI on Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:47 am

I like the idea of giving Bkn space via TPE but it would have to be done this summer since LA cannot accept any SnT's after that under the new rules. Of course, Gilbert and Cuban would already have their protest letters ready for Saperstern.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby therealdeal on Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:01 pm

THE_DAGGER wrote:
therealdeal wrote:No you wouldn't. I honestly don't care what his pedigree is or who he's trained with. He's a rookie and he hasn't played a single NBA game. How you could possibly compare him to arguably the best point guard in the game is beyond me.

That would be like comparing Anthony Davis to Dwight Howard. The kid has done nothing to show he will be that good. Rivers is the same.

I would rather see the Lakers target an Andre Iguodala or a Michael Beasley. Those guys are proven, they fill a need, and when combined with other pieces can make us a championship caliber team.


I said I think he could provide a similar impact. And in that sense then yes, you can compare Anthony Davis to Dwight Howard. Howard is an athletic defensive anchor, that's his impact. Which is the same impact that Davis is hoped to provide as the projected number one pick. That doesn't mean at the same level or same rate. Similar impact, similar skill set, similar style of play.

Sometimes you can't wait until a player is proven. You have to take a chance, a gamble. That's why it's called a lottery. That's how we wound up with Kobe.

And with proven players comes proven salary. Iguodala makes over $14M. I would take him as a player. But, to trade Gasol for him only saves us about $5M. We're repeat offenders on the luxury tax after next season, which I believe means we pay $2.50 per dollar starting off. Even if we amnesty Artest I still think we'd be over the tax.

We have to dump Gasol's salary to a team that can absorb his contract without giving us much salary back. That happens to be most of these lottery teams. I don't see how my scenario isn't realistic or beneficial from a basketball sense and financial sense. You get a potential all star on a rookie scale contract plus players to bolster our roster now.

If you don't like Austin Rivers' game then that's your opinion. But, I don't believe he'll be a bust. I think he can play now and alongside Kobe. But, that's a chance the front office would have to be willing to take.


Look I disagree with pretty much everything you just said but I'm a bit too busy right now to break this down. Remind me and I'll come back later and show you how what you're saying is wrong.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby John3:16 on Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:26 pm

therealdeal wrote:Look I disagree with pretty much everything you just said but I'm a bit too busy right now to break this down. Remind me and I'll come back later and show you how what you're saying is wrong.


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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Helljumper on Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:47 pm

I don't see the big deal in trading Pau for a package centered around a lottery pick. A trade like that would likely also net us a few role players and save us some money. At the very least, it would be a quick way to fill out the bench.

Just a quick idea: Pau, Blake, Glock for Okafor, Ariza, Jason Smith, #10 Pick. Okafor and Bynum would be terrible together in the same front court, so we'd ideally follow it up by trading one of them. Maybe Bynum, Eyenga, and some second rounders for Iggy, Holiday, and #15 pick. Draft Perry Jones with #10, Austin Rivers with #15. Re-sign Sessions and Hill. Use the mini-MLE on a shooter off the bench. Amnesty Metta.

Holiday / Sessions / Morris
Bryant / Rivers
Iguodala / Ariza / Shooter
Jones III / Hill / McRoberts
Okafor / Smith

That's a decent squad. Definitely much deeper and athletic than our current team. A lack of a go-to option in the post could really hurt, but then again, a lot of teams are successful without that so we'd just have to adjust our offense.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Texas Lakers Fan on Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:11 pm

Helljumper wrote:I don't see the big deal in trading Pau for a package centered around a lottery pick. A trade like that would likely also net us a few role players and save us some money. At the very least, it would be a quick way to fill out the bench.

Just a quick idea: Pau, Blake, Glock for Okafor, Ariza, Jason Smith, #10 Pick. Okafor and Bynum would be terrible together in the same front court, so we'd ideally follow it up by trading one of them. Maybe Bynum, Eyenga, and some second rounders for Iggy, Holiday, and #15 pick. Draft Perry Jones with #10, Austin Rivers with #15. Re-sign Sessions and Hill. Use the mini-MLE on a shooter off the bench. Amnesty Metta.

Holiday / Sessions / Morris
Bryant / Rivers
Iguodala / Ariza / Shooter
Jones III / Hill / McRoberts
Okafor / Smith

That's a decent squad. Definitely much deeper and athletic than our current team. A lack of a go-to option in the post could really hurt, but then again, a lot of teams are successful without that so we'd just have to adjust our offense.

That's a horrible trade. Holiday and Iggy are good players, but no way in hell are they worth giving up Bynum for.
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Re: Utah Jazz

Postby dj vitus on Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:26 pm

kosstick wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Phil XI wrote:Lots of chitchat on other site about Ireland's supposed Milsap + Harris for Pau sourced (his) rumor. Possibly with a follow up for Utah of Jefferson for Iggy, balancing out both teams' lineups. Milsap and Harris would alleviate the Lakers financial issue in 2013-2014 (freeing up Bynum resign money presumably or Dwight).

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7wy8u7p

Los Angeles:
Code: Select all
Outgoing                  Incoming
$19,000,000 Pau Gasol     $19,536,360 Dwight Howard
$16,100,000 Andrew Bynum
Orlando:
Code: Select all
Outgoing                  Incoming
$19,536,360 Dwight Howard $16,100,000 Andrew Bynum
$6,190,000  JJ Reddick    $15,000,000 Al Jefferson
                          Mehmet Okur Trade Except
Utah:
Code: Select all
Outgoing                  Incoming
$15,000,000 Al Jefferson  $19,000,000 Pau Gasol
Mehmet Okur Trade Except  $6,190,000  JJ Reddick



So how does this trade make us better? Trading away Bynum and Pau for Dwight I thought we were all past this..

Utah gets straight hosed in that deal.
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Re: Utah Jazz

Postby JUST-MING on Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:01 am

dj vitus wrote:Utah gets straight hosed in that deal.

I disagree. First, look at their salary situation; Harris and Milsap, in their last years, making $8.5 mil, and the rest of the roster is on rookie contracts. Second, they would be acquiring two really good white guys, which would be important for Utah. Carlos Boozer was half-white, and from Alaska, and he couldn’t wait to bolt. History has shown that black people don’t like snow. Third, they experienced first-hand Gasol as dominating as he’s ever been against them at center (2008-2009-2010). Lastly they were ‘outclassed’ by San Antonio in the first-round; their star player Al Jefferson made that remark. Gasol, instead, would’ve demanded the ball. Utah is one of the few teams willing to take on Gasol ($21.9 mil)’s last two years. In that deal, Reddick ($6.1 mil), Jefferson ($15 mil), and Bynum ($16.1 mil) are expiring contracts. (Fwiw.)
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Re: Utah Jazz

Postby Doc Brown on Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:27 am

JUST-MING wrote:
dj vitus wrote:Utah gets straight hosed in that deal.

I disagree. First, look at their salary situation; Harris and Milsap, in their last years, making $8.5 mil, and the rest of the roster is on rookie contracts. Second, they would be acquiring two really good white guys, which would be important for Utah. Carlos Boozer was half-white, and from Alaska, and he couldn’t wait to bolt. History has shown that black people don’t like snow. Third, they experienced first-hand Gasol as dominating as he’s ever been against them at center (2008-2009-2010). Lastly they were ‘outclassed’ by San Antonio in the first-round; their star player Al Jefferson made that remark. Gasol, instead, would’ve demanded the ball. Utah is one of the few teams willing to take on Gasol ($21.9 mil)’s last two years. In that deal, Reddick ($6.1 mil), Jefferson ($15 mil), and Bynum ($16.1 mil) are expiring contracts. (Fwiw.)



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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Phil XI on Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:20 am

Edit
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby wcsoldier81 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:59 am

Great news for Pau with Nadal out

Pau Gasol:Very happy to be the carrier of the Spanish flag.One of the happiest moments of my career. Thanks Federations and COE! http://youtu.be/RRA6sAl0EVUabout 1 hour ago
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