Pau Discussion: Pau-dini escapes another trade deadline!

Would you re-sign Pau for ~7 million per?

Yes
36
32%
No
62
56%
Maybe (explain)
12
10%
 
Total votes : 110

Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby thkthebest on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:36 am

GoldenKnight wrote:I would take Amare, he can attack & make his j's, he can't be as bad as Pau on defense, or as slow...

Let's not become crazy now.

He's worse than Gasol on defense. Go take a look at any Knicks game last season or the year before. Gasol might be slow, but he's not doing nothing like Amare. If you take a look at how Amare guards the pnr, he just stands there. He doesn't hedge. He doesn't block the driving lane. He doesn't try to impede or contest anything. He seriously just stands there. Gasol at least puts some effort, even if he's bad.

Amare doesn't have the better jumper either.

Last season:

10-15 feet...
Amare: 30.9%
Pau: 43.4%
Advantage: Pau by 12.5%

16-23 feet...
Amare: 35.0%
Pau: 43.0%
Advantage: Pau by 8%

Go back another season, and Pau destroys him on jumpers again. Go back another season. Pau beats him pretty solidly overall, although Amare does have 0.2% advantage (negligible difference) from 10-15 feet. Even this season, Gasol's relatively low 38.2% is still better than Amare's 0%. :)
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:54 am

Amare has basically been a net negative player production wise for the last few seasons. He's as worthless as worthless gets
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby lakersin4 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:58 am

The only reason to consider Pau for Stat is the potential role players thrown in from the Knicks. Give us Novak & Shump & Amare can sit out & we still won the deal. Jamison/Hill can handle PF & Shump/Novak fit the system. But you put Amare in a 6th man role with that team, & he fits better than Pau would in that role because he's better at creating his own shot & fast enough to take advantage when we get out on the break. Roll with: Nash - Kobe - Ron - Jamison - Dwight.. Amare, Novak, Meeks with the 2nd unit. Hill would still have a reduced role & that's a problem.. But if Jamison or Amare go down, he's right there to step in. We'd finally have youth & depth in the backcourt to match the frontcourt.

I think another potential solution is simply limiting Pau's minutes. For games where Hill matches up well, let Pau rest those knees.. That way when we play elite teams, he can give us as close to 100% as he's capable of. No point in having this depth if we're not going to use it.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby The Rock on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:43 am

I think right now we need to limit his minutes until Nash returns. Hes being a liability right now. Cant play D, cant score, just in a bad bad slump. Increase MWP, Jamison and Hill's mins
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby The Rock on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:54 am

Pau for Boozer? :man1:

But seriously no to Amare, Im sorry hes not the same player he was in NY just as recent as 2011. His 2012 campaign was horrendous and his contract is AWFUL
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Aonex on Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:32 am

Wish I could say the same about Pau... then again, maybe that option hasn't been presented yet.

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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby wcsoldier81 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:57 am

Too bad their contract situations are a problem (too many years left) ... because I'd do a Pau for Green , Terry and Lee trade ...

With MDA as the coach , these lineups are looking good

Nash
Kobe
MWP
Green
D12

Terry
Meeks
Lee
Jamison (Hill)
D12
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby khmrP on Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:11 am

^^^To bad Green sucks though and he's more of a tweener then Jamison is, at least I can definetively tell Jamison is a legit 6 10" Green doesn't look any taller then Kobe when they were matched up when he was in OKC.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby khmrP on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:17 pm

for all you Ariza fan boys

Nene/Ariza/ future protected 1st
for
Pau/Blake/Ebanks/Clark

Wiz-dumps Nene contract off sooner...this pretty much clearups nearly $40 dollar in 2014 with both Okafor/Pau expiring, in addition to Blake with Ebanks/Clark expiring this year and could be part of their youth movt.

for us, Nene is as good of a PnR player as any, better then Amare IMO, his jump shot is a lil more consistent and he's more physical player then Amare. Ariza can come back and do whatevers, at very least gives us some athleticism.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Center Court on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:36 pm

khmrP wrote:for all you Ariza fan boys

Nene/Ariza/ future protected 1st
for
Pau/Blake/Ebanks/Clark

Wiz-dumps Nene contract off sooner...this pretty much clearups nearly $40 dollar in 2014 with both Okafor/Pau expiring, in addition to Blake with Ebanks/Clark expiring this year and could be part of their youth movt.

for us, Nene is as good of a PnR player as any, better then Amare IMO, his jump shot is a lil more consistent and he's more physical player then Amare. Ariza can come back and do whatevers, at very least gives us some athleticism.



just because someone can pick and roll doesn't make them a good fit. that trade is horrible for our spacing and what MDA is trying to build.

The best possible PF is a Josh Smith/Ryan Anderson rolled into one.

That's impossible to find but Nene is complete opposite.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby khmrP on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:39 pm

Center Court wrote:
khmrP wrote:for all you Ariza fan boys

Nene/Ariza/ future protected 1st
for
Pau/Blake/Ebanks/Clark

Wiz-dumps Nene contract off sooner...this pretty much clearups nearly $40 dollar in 2014 with both Okafor/Pau expiring, in addition to Blake with Ebanks/Clark expiring this year and could be part of their youth movt.

for us, Nene is as good of a PnR player as any, better then Amare IMO, his jump shot is a lil more consistent and he's more physical player then Amare. Ariza can come back and do whatevers, at very least gives us some athleticism.



just because someone can pick and roll doesn't make them a good fit. that trade is horrible for our spacing and what MDA is trying to build.

The best possible PF is a Josh Smith/Ryan Anderson rolled into one.

That's impossible to find but Nene is complete opposite.


how is Smith a better floor spacer then Nene? :man3: ..........keep dreaming about Anderson, cause that aint happening.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby King of Clutch on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:46 pm

Big Mamma Jamma wrote:
King of Clutch wrote:
Weezy wrote:Tired of these excuses and analysts taking out of their backsides about Pau from 4 years ago. That Pau seems to be gone, his size, his skill, blah blah blah it doesn't mean anything if he doesn't produce on the court. And the system is the problem now? So the Triangle in 2011 wasn't good for him, the offense last season wasn't good for him, the Princeton wasn't good for him, and now 'Antoni's system is the problem, riiiight.

This. I truly am shocked at how people seemed to be brainwashed, or hypnotized about pau's skill level currently. There's no denying the he is an AVERAGE POWER FORWARD. I don't know what else people need to see before they realize this. lol he's averaging a measly 13.1 ppg and 9.1 rebounds per game on 12.1 shots and 42% from the field. lol i'm sorry, did I say average? Must have over estimated him. People keep saying, "he's a better rebounder than X" or "he's more skilled than X". The fact is, all of that is crap. People believing he's still a top 5 pf, or even a top 10 pf, are truly out of their minds...


I am not brainwashed ... I call it as I see it. Pau at this point in his career is not a PF. It's funny that you call him a PF. He is a center. He should be coming off the bench backing up Dwight. He would thrive in a role like that. Imagine him with Blake in the second unit. He is an excellent passer and if surrounded by shooters would do serious damage around the basket because there aren't many centers that can shut him down one on one. He is very skilled and can finish with either hand. Plus, he is a good free throw shooter. Playing PF, especially one expected to knock down long jumpers, does not cater to his strengths.

The problem with most posters is that they expect him to do well in a role that is not suited to him. Moreover, his athleticism has declined and people expect a 32 year old center averaging 37 minutes a game to play like a 22 year old.

He's an average center as well. I find it funny that you think there are few centers who can shut him down one on one. They don't need to, pau just is not the same post player. I don't see what you're seeing from 2012 pau in that respect. I've said numerous times that playing him at center would help his defense, but it won't do anything for his offense. He's still not a dominant post player anymore, and his jumper comes and goes. People thinking him being a center would magically improve his production aren't being truthful to themselves. It might allow him to dominate 2nd unit bigs, but i'm not even totally convinced on that because pau played alot of time with the bench last year too. The only thing that would help us for certain is with is his bad pnr defense. But even then, if he's a center, and still gets put in pnrs, lol, it might even be worse. Dwight won't be back there to defend the rim. So it may not even help him defensively as much as we think. However there are few centers who run pnr anyway.
Last edited by King of Clutch on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby King of Clutch on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:56 pm

The Rock wrote:Pau for Boozer? :man1:

But seriously no to Amare, Im sorry hes not the same player he was in NY just as recent as 2011. His 2012 campaign was horrendous and his contract is AWFUL

NOOO!! Boozer is even WORSE than Amare!
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby The Rock on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:58 pm

Pau for David Lee? :man1:

Do it again Jerry :jam2:
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby kenzo on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:20 pm

Are we just coming up with any stupid names we can think of here or what? :man3:
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby The Rock on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:18 pm

Pau you're the most skilled post player in the league you go down to the post! Damnit. I hate this mindset he needs to space the floor, no you dont as much as you need to post up!
https://twitter.com/LakersReporter/status/274260171608424448

Gasol on a tricky balance: "I'll try to get into the paint as much as I can, but also remind myself that (I need to) keep the floor spaced."
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby therealdeal on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:39 pm

The Rock wrote:Pau you're the most skilled post player in the league you go down to the post! Damnit. I hate this mindset he needs to space the floor, no you dont as much as you need to post up!https://twitter.com/LakersReporter/status/274260171608424448

Gasol on a tricky balance: "I'll try to get into the paint as much as I can, but also remind myself that (I need to) keep the floor spaced."

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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Kit on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:40 pm

Space what?
You go inside and kick it out or lob to Dwight when you get doubled. Soon or later guys will dare you to shoot the mid range.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby The Rock on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:44 pm

therealdeal wrote:
The Rock wrote:Pau you're the most skilled post player in the league you go down to the post! Damnit. I hate this mindset he needs to space the floor, no you dont as much as you need to post up!https://twitter.com/LakersReporter/status/274260171608424448

Gasol on a tricky balance: "I'll try to get into the paint as much as I can, but also remind myself that (I need to) keep the floor spaced."

Image


And Dwight is not Bynum who is slow as molasses, he isnt gonna sit in the perimeter, Dwight moves well off the ball. if the second big comes over, ball rotates and can find Dwight with a mismatch.

And Pau gets plenty of minutes in the C position as the primary post option when Dwight is out of the game and he rarely imposes himself down there

Had to bring back the Garbage sig. Its time. Pau is at the lowest point of his Laker career right now, lets see how this goes
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby charvin on Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:15 pm

Something had to have worked in the past (not counting last year). If Pau and Bynum were able to co-exist in the paint area and each were able to get points, I don't see it being a problem now. Especially as The Rock mentioned Dwight is way more mobile than Andrew is or ever was.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:22 pm

:man10: Every GARBAGE sig makes laugh, pic is so fitting
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Vasashi17 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:45 pm

By Trudell

As the seasons pass in the NBA, the league's players seem to get smaller and more agile in the frontcourt.

But the Lakers have not ascribed to the movement that has seen wings like LeBron James and Carmelo Anthony start at power forward, instead putting 7-footer Pau Gasol in the PF slot next to centers Dwight Howard this season and Andrew Bynum last.

Gasol's best and most natural position remains in the pivot, where he can utilize his terrific hands, post moves over either shoulder, face-up game and passing ability at his leisure. The Spaniard spent the majority of his first several years in Los Angeles at center, with Andrew Bynum missing the 2007-08 season with injuries and playing fewer minutes than Gasol particularly in crunch time.

So unique for a true 7-footer — new coach Mike D'Antoni couldn't think of a comparison – Gasol's multiple skills allow him to play the high post as well, doing things that many power forwards do while remaining an extra rim protector on defense.

In the lockout-shortened 2011-12 season, with a new coach and a new system, Gasol played center less than ever before. That Bynum stayed healthy and played 35.2 minutes per game – a full eight more than the previous season – kept Gasol on the perimeter far more than in the past. Ditto for this season, with Howard coming to town and D'Antoni's system encouraging floor spacing from the power forward slot.

The numbers prove this point. As detailed on hoopdata.com, Gasol attempted 5.8 shots per game at the rim in 2008-09, a number that literally decreased every season to a new low at 3.2 this season. As such, Gasol is taking 5.5 shots from 16-23 feet (4.1 last season), up from a mere 1.6 in 2008-09. And while Gasol made an impressive 49 percent from that range in 2010-11, he's hitting only 40% this year (in a far smaller sample size), while averaging a career low 13.1 points with 9.1 rebounds and 3.3 assists.

After a particularly poor individual outing at Memphis on Nov. 23, Gasol told me that while he'd certainly like more touches in the post – with which he can both score and facilitate for teammates – he can have plenty of success at the 4. He knows it's on him to be aggressive to get his touches inside, acknowledging that Kobe Bryant and Metta World Peace certainly don't wait for permission. His personality makes him often the Laker who looks to please his teammates, but it's sometimes an internal debate.

"I'll try to get into the paint as much as I can, but also remind myself that (I need to) keep the floor spaced," he said after Thursday's practice. "I'm trying to figure it out.

D'Antoni, for one, is confident Gasol will do just that. He said the Spaniard is simply too good not to be effective wherever he is on the floor, and that it's on the coaching staff to help make it fit. Of course, that's not to ignore the other side of the court.

No NBA power forward eagerly awaits the night they have to defend Gasol, but yes, he has to defend them too. That puts more pressure on the 7-footer to adjust to constantly varying looks as opponents try to counter L.A.'s length.

"It can be difficult because every game is a bit different," explained Gasol. "You have to adjust your defensive coverages depending on the team you are facing and what your match up is. You have to focus on whatever is going to benefit the team the most that night."

On one night, the Spaniard has to vigilantly stay in the face of LaMarcus Aldridge or (when healthy) Dirk Nowitzki for fear of a rainbow jumper from anywhere. The next, he has to move his long legs as fast as he can trying to chase down Kenneth Faried or Blake Griffin in transition.

Gasol may have possessions against Kevin Durant when OKC goes small, and -- barring a crossmatch in which teammate Metta World Peace can relieve him -- will see LeBron or Carmelo. Then comes a turn on bruising 4's like Zach Randolph.

An additional responsibility for Gasol is to be the first of the two bigs back in transition to protect the rim, since he's generally the one left higher on the court.

"Against Detroit, for example, (power forward) Jason Maxiell crashes the boards really hard and runs the floor well, so I always have to be concerned about that," Gasol continued. "You just have to know whom you're playing against. Maxiell is much different from LaMarcus Aldridge, who is a pick and pop guy that's going to get 20-30 touches in the post every night. Some days are more challenging than others."

But it's not as simple as match ups. Of L.A.'s four stars, Gasol's been the only one who played nearly every game last season (sitting out the meaningless regular season finale only), the Olympics with his Spanish National Team and then the full training camp. During the preseason, he developed tendinitis in his knees that's been a pain.

"It’s been bothering me for awhile," he acknowledged. "I’m going to play through it and you try to keep it under control. It’s a little limiting, but it is what it is. There’s nothing I can do about it. Hopefully, it won’t force me to miss any games unless my performance is way down. I can’t do that to myself or to my team."

Yet in a system that encourages all players to get out and run, Gasol has to fight through the fatigue and soreness, and get to a point where he can best use his considerable gifts.

"He’s a great guy, he’s a great competitor, he’s got a great career," said D'Antoni after the win at Dallas, when Gasol had 13 points and nine boards in three quarters of a blowout win. "I didn’t have any doubts. It’s just a matter of simplifying and getting everybody knowing what we want as coaches, and getting all the frustrations out, and he did it. I would really be shocked if he responded any other way because he’s that good of a (player).

"He needed to play well, and he did. He needed to respond like that, and he did. I didn’t have a doubt. He can easily play our system and he’s going to be a very important player for us, and I’m looking forward to going forward with it."

D'Antoni and his assistants know they're asking a lot of Gasol on the defensive end, especially at his second best position.

"He needs to be consistent with our coverages, trapping side pick and rolls and keeping smalls from going around or splitting (high pick and rolls)", said assistant Chuck Person. "When he's in the post, we ask him to guard his man straight up with no help. It's a tall order for Pau, but if we didn't think he could do it, we wouldn't ask that much of him. We feel like he's a great player on both ends of the floor and that he can live up it.

"He has the quickness to guard smaller players and the length to guard bigger players; we ask him to post up, to pass, to run pick and rolls, to facilitate all facets of the game. He's our X factor."

The value proposition with Gasol is essentially this: can the Lakers take enough advantage of his length and skill over opponents on the defensive end while not tiring him out too much chasing often quicker fours around on the other end?

"If I'm giving more defensively, it takes away my energy on offense, and vice versa," Gasol explained. "There will be games you're needed on both ends and you have to push yourself through it. It's hard not to have consistency sometimes, because you're asking your body to adjust to different situations, but my versatility and my skill set I think allows me to do that. The coaches rely on me to do that for the team, and hopefully that's one reason I'm valuable."

Historically, that's of course been the case: the Lakers went to the NBA Finals three straight times, winning twice, since Gasol was acquired from Memphis in February of 2008.

This season, with Bryant, Howard and (once he returns from injury) Steve Nash on the floor, the Barcelona native knows he won't always have a great many chances to punish his man. Sometimes, the 4-time All-Star just has to sprint back on D or keep a quicker power forward off the offensive glass.

The Lakers still need him find a way to be aggressive, to look for his own shot while still spacing the floor, but he can't change his nature because the position he plays most often has changed.

"A lot of his value comes in the fact (that) he's a player that can do so much but that sacrifices it for the betterment of the team," Bryant told reporters early in the season. "So you still have a player that's insanely talented who's willing to kind of take a step back for the group. That's tough to find."


I totally understand the frustrations around Pau, but hopefully people can at least appreciate what Pau is being asked to do. He's playing hurt and out of position. If there is a trade to be had that makes us better, then I'm all for it. But till then, I'm supporting this guy. I personally think he needs to shut it down for a while, but it looks like, he's going to try to fight through it. I applaud the determination and the commitment, but he'll only hurt the team by staying out there playing hurt.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby borri on Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:57 pm

^^^

Blah. Heard it already. Heard it in PJ's last year here. Heard it last year. Once again, hearing it now.

Getting old real real quick. All this stuff makes sense if and only if Pau, when he gets the ball in the post, makes an aggressive move. Unfortunately, he hasn't been doing it for the past 2 years.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby noobiew on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:34 pm

The biggest problem for Pau is the lack of effort on a consistent basis, nowadays he can give you one good game in a while but not for every games. He actually played pretty good and has few nice post baskets in the Dallas game, but the next game against Indiana he reverted back to his lackadaisical mindset standing around the perimeter not looking to attack the paint.

I really think Pau was checked out after the 2010, and so far has been using excuses for the past 2 years. Yes he has been misused by us due to the system but he was not putting enough effort into the game as well, no more excuse for you bro.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Poooky on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:48 pm

Fun thought:

Whenever backstage lakers puts a piece for someone, they end up being gone re: mike brown & cdr.

Now the recent episode is Gasol. They prob know something we don't cuz time warner is paying them billions. They prob have someone that knows whats goin on behind closed doors :man12:
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