Pau Appreciation: UnBullievable, no S&T - Thx 4 the Memories

Would you re-sign Pau for ~7 million per?

Yes
53
38%
No
71
52%
Maybe (explain)
12
8%
 
Total votes : 136

Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:28 am

2007 plan target players now suck or out of the NBA :man10:
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby kenzo on Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:39 am

revgen wrote:I'd keep Pau rather than Amare.

1) His contract ends earlier.

2) He also does a better job as a 3rd option player on offense since he actually passes the damn ball. Which leads me to #3.

3) I think we're more likely to keep D12 with Pau here than Amare.

This, this and this. I call BS on that rumor. Throw Lakers and Knicks name in any rumor and you got people talking.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Finwë on Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:54 am

Plus Amare is injured and injury prone..
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby wcsoldier81 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:13 am

What's next ? Kobe for Joe Johnson ? ... MDA needs to chill out about his glory past with the Suns ... the way he's talking about Nash's comeback as the answer for this team problems is already worrisome
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Weezy on Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:05 am

Amare is one of the few "All Star" NBA players I would not trade Pau for. Pau hasn't been great, but Amare is just bad, his teams improve when he's out injured, I see zero care about defense and rebounding from him, I do not see how it would improve the team. I can't say he's a bad teammate or doesn't care about winning, I don't know that one way or the other, but it would be a lateral move at best from a talent standpoint.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby LooN3y on Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:34 am

do you really want an idiot that smashed his hand on glass during the playoffs?


dude is really, really dumb. i cant say it in any other way. seriously listen to his post game interviews, hes dumb as hell
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby 432J on Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:48 am

absolutely no amare unless we get novak and another player in return
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:53 am

This is a real rumor?...... :man10: ....... :man6: ........ :bang: ........ :mad1:

Why do we need another All Star?.... What we need is a SF that can shoot and create and a decent PF in return.....

I'd assume that the only return we can get for an underachieving (compared to pay) player is another underachieving player...
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby lakersin4 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:17 am

Rooscooter wrote:This is a real rumor?...... :man10: ....... :man6: ........ :bang: ........ :mad1:

Why do we need another All Star?.... What we need is a SF that can shoot and create and a decent PF in return.....

I'd assume that the only return we can get for an underachieving (compared to pay) player is another underachieving player...

Yeah.. Joe Johnson fits the mold of what we could get for Pau.. 20M a year guy giving his team -15 PPG. Nash & JJ with Kobe on the wings, making Ron the 6th man.. Jamison starting. Perfect fit if we're building around Dwight & D'antoni.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby lotus on Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:29 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:What's next ? Kobe for Joe Johnson ? ... MDA needs to chill out about his glory past with the Suns ... the way he's talking about Nash's comeback as the answer for this team problems is already worrisome

Cosign. I mean really, is Dantoni trying to rebuild the Suns who didn't win ish by the way. And Nash will be 39 and surely Westbrook, Wade, Parker, et al, will give him all his fit, but 39yr old legs can handle. Dantoni is just running to his comfort zone I guess.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby mister anakin on Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:08 am

432J wrote:i would only favor this trade if we got novak as well

he's the type of player the lakers NEED


Novak and Shumpert are both players that would fit Lakers REALLY well.
Anyway, i think this rumor is just BS.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby mister anakin on Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:12 am

"The Lakers aren't actively looking to trade Gasol right now, The Times has learned, because they want to see what happens when Nash returns from a small fracture in his leg". Los Angeles Time (through HoopsHype)
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby khmrP on Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:17 am

mister anakin wrote:"The Lakers aren't actively looking to trade Gasol right now, The Times has learned, because they want to see what happens when Nash returns from a small fracture in his leg". Los Angeles Time (through HoopsHype)


just like reports that Brown would get the 6gm homestand before getting fired :man10: , mgmt. is def. looking they just dont want to lose leverage and come out and admit that they are shopping Pau.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby kenzo on Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:21 am

You guys remember Kobe's recent statement? Something along the lines of "as long as i am a Laker, Pau is not going anywhere". What's tour take on that?
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:21 pm

^^Comments to help Pau calm down more than anything else.
"If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby pound4pound1 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:40 pm

davriver290 wrote:Didn't he say he has tendinitis in his knees now? Age is catching up with this guy probably.



nah...he's just killing his trade value so that he can stay
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby khmrP on Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:40 pm

as far as Kobe's comments about Pau not going anywhere, what bout his most recent comments about Pau's game? Kobe is about winning at all cost, I'm sure if mgmt. made move that improves the team Kobe wont be heartbroken about Pau getting moved.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby borri on Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:14 pm

Re: Amare

Points to consider: When he was traded to NY most of us thought it was a BAD move by NY. We questioned how effective Amare would be without Nash. We were right.

Now if traded for Pau, he'd be back with Nash. The guy who made Amare unstoppable. Offensively with Nash he does everything that Pau can and more. Big upgrade offensively.

Yes dude can't pass for ish. But do we really need his passing when we have Nash and Kobe?

Defense, is Pau that much better defensively?

With that said, the only concern I'd have is his injuries. All in all, I am for the trade. I'd do it and do it in a heartbeat. Win now, worry about the horrible K later.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby khmrP on Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:20 pm

borri wrote:Re: Amare

Points to consider: When he was traded to NY most of us thought it was a BAD move by NY. We questioned how effective Amare would be without Nash. We were right.

Now if traded for Pau, he'd be back with Nash. The guy who made Amare unstoppable. Offensively with Nash he does everything that Pau can and more. Big upgrade offensively.

Yes dude can't pass for ish. But do we really need his passing when we have Nash and Kobe?

Defense, is Pau that much better defensively?

With that said, the only concern I'd have is his injuries. All in all, I am for the trade. I'd do it and do it in a heartbeat. Win now, worry about the horrible K later.


yes we do need our PF to pass, its Pau passing thats at least help get Howard some easy dunks here and there, I'm sure Howard wouldn't appreciate being 3rd or 4th on the todem pole especially behind Amare of all players.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby revgen on Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:27 pm

borri wrote:Yes dude can't pass for ish. But do we really need his passing when we have Nash and Kobe?


Yes. The less Kobe has to pass and facilitate the better. Kobe is at his best when he can think score-first. Nash and Pau can handle the ball movement. 3 score-first guys (Artest, Kobe, D12) and 2 pass-first guys. Nice balance.

borri wrote:Defense, is Pau that much better defensively?


They both stink on team defense. Pau is a better individual defender. Better rebounder.

borri wrote:With that said, the only concern I'd have is his injuries. All in all, I am for the trade. I'd do it and do it in a heartbeat. Win now, worry about the horrible K later.


They both have terrible K's. The difference is that Pau's turns into an expiring K next season, so there is a chance for us to pickup a legit 6th man. Jamison is only playing with us 1 season at vet min IMO. After that, he's going to either retire or play for what he's really worth.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby thkthebest on Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:31 pm

borri wrote:Re: Amare

Points to consider: When he was traded to NY most of us thought it was a BAD move by NY. We questioned how effective Amare would be without Nash. We were right.

Now if traded for Pau, he'd be back with Nash. The guy who made Amare unstoppable. Offensively with Nash he does everything that Pau can and more. Big upgrade offensively.

Amare wouldn't be a big upgrade offensively. Taking a look at the pre-2011 seasons is like taking a look at pre-2011 Pau. It doesn't mean much, especially for Amare, who relies on athleticism.

Even in the beginning of 2010, Amare was playing well without Nash. He started becoming mediocre when Carmelo came. Last season, he sucked even more because his back limited him from working out in the offseason. This season, he hasn't even played because of more injury problems. Do you really want a guy as injury-prone as Amare, especially when he's not even an upgrade in the first place...

Yes dude can't pass for ish. But do we really need his passing when we have Nash and Kobe?


Passing at all positions is an extremely valuable asset. When we won those two championships, we had the best passing bigs (Odom + Pau) in the league. Amare and Dwight combination would be the complete opposite. If I had to compare Amare's passing to a recent Laker, it would be Bynum...except worse.

Defense, is Pau that much better defensively?


As much as people rip Pau for his defense, he's still better than Amare. I don't think Amare even tries on that end. He probably doesn't even talk so our guards would have no idea what's happening behind them.

Also, Amare's greatest asset during those Suns days was his explosiveness. He used to use his explosiveness to beat centers because they were much slower. When he moved to PF, he wasn't as great because other PFs are able to keep up. He's even slower now. His athleticism is fading.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby The Original 81 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:40 pm

HELLLLLL no to Amar'e.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Juronimo on Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:45 pm

The Original 81 wrote:HELLLLLL no to Amar'e.


This times a billion
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby kenzo on Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:55 pm

khmrP wrote:as far as Kobe's comments about Pau not going anywhere, what bout his most recent comments about Pau's game? Kobe is about winning at all cost, I'm sure if mgmt. made move that improves the team Kobe wont be heartbroken about Pau getting moved.

Probably. But if we do something stupid like Pau for Amare, Kobe won't ba a happy camper.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Vasashi17 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:31 pm

Pretty good read by SI's Ben Golliver:

The dust has settled from the Mike Brown-to-Mike D’Antoni coaching transition, and it can now be said definitively that Lakers big man Pau Gasol was one of November’s biggest winners. Why? Sadly, it’s not for any reasons related to style of play or X’s and O’s. Rather, he simply benefited from the commotion and distraction. He’s putting the finishing touches on one of the least effective months of his career and he practically escaped the negative headlines and scrutiny thanks to Brown.

As the Lakers now turn their attention from excising a failed coach to fashioning a workable future, Gasol inevitably finds himself back in the crosshairs.

While he’s never been a No. 1 scoring option on Kobe Bryant’s Lakers, Gasol’s production has remained remarkably consistent on the macro level. In 2009, 2010 and 2011, Gasol ranked No. 3 among power forwards in Player Efficiency Rating, averaging 18 points and 10-11 rebounds and shooting no worse than 52.9 percent from the field. He took a step backward last season and this year he’s fallen off a cliff. In 2011-12, Gasol ranked No. 8 among power forwards in PER, still solid, but saw his averages dip to 17.4 points and 10.4 rebounds, while shooting 50.1 percent from the field.

So far in 2012-13, Gasol is scoring a career-low 13.4 points, more than four points less than he averaged as a 21-year-old rookie, and shooting 43.4 percent from the field, his worst shooting average by more than four percentage points and 8.5 percent off his career 51.9 mark. The kicker: Gasol ranks No. 32 among power forwards in PER, squeezed between the likes of Markieff Morris and Glen Davis. Now is the time for the mandatory reminder that Gasol is being paid $19 million this season, one of the highest salaries in the league, and will make $19.3 million next season.

Gasol, as thoughtful and intelligent as NBA players come, has made it clear that he’s aware of his struggles. The Orange County Register reported last week that Gasol pointed to the distribution of his shot attempts as a cause for concern.

“I’m getting most all my looks as jump shots,” Gasol said. “I would like to see something close to the basket, and not just by rolling — especially when Dwight is there. But we’ll see. We’ll figure it out. We just started, pretty much.”

Gasol added: “How I get going is by getting in the paint and creating off the post and things like that. That’s historically how I’ve been very successful and how I’ve made a really good name for myself and earned my contracts. But hopefully I’ll find a way or we’ll find a way to get me a few opportunities there, too, and to get myself going that way and to be more effective.”

ESPNLA.com added that Gasol said that he “can stretch the defense and make a couple jumpers” but that he’s “not a pure jump shooter.”

Gasol, through the first month of the season, is a totally different type of offensive player than he was during his strongest and most efficient stretch, from 2008 to 2010. Using numbers from HoopData.com, we can easily spot the trend Gasol called out.

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As the chart indicates, in 2008-09, Gasol’s first full season with the Lakers, 44 percent of his field-goal attempts came at the rim. By comparison, just 16 percent of his attempts came on shots from 16-to-23 feet, commonly referred to as long twos. So far this season, 47 percent of Gasol’s attempts are long twos while just 27 percent have come at the rim. That’s a massive shift away from high-efficiency shots to low-efficiency shots, a trend that slowly developed over the last two seasons before accelerating this year as the Triangle Offense became a memory. To make matters worse, Gasol is hitting just 40 percent of his long twos this season, his worst mark during his time in Los Angeles.

This tells us that Gasol was right to raise the issue. The Lakers have had three coaches in 14 games and it’s been one series of adjustments after another. Another major adjustment is upcoming: the re-integration of point guard Steve Nash after he recovers from a leg injury. There’s a lot that’s unclear about the Lakers these days but Gasol’s effectiveness isn’t one of them. What he’s doing now isn’t working. He’s putting up his worst numbers, playing at his worst efficiency levels, taking (by far) his worst collection of shots and missing more than ever. The Lakers would have a much bigger problem if Gasol wasn’t sounding a siren in these conditions.

The scary part for Gasol (and the rest of the league) is this: The Lakers boast the NBA’s fourth-most-efficient offense. That’s with Gasol playing this ineffectively. That’s with Dwight Howard still not at 100 percent. That’s with Nash’s having played fewer than two full games before getting injured. In the past, Gasol was a top driver of L.A.’s offensive efficiency, not an obstacle, largely thanks to his versatile game and the dominating interior duo he formed with center Andrew Bynum. Now, they are succeeding in spite of him. For Gasol, this probably feels like a fork in the road. Just about anyone can shoot long twos at a 40 percent clip. That’s a totally replaceable contribution. A player of his stature is unaccustomed to feeling replaceable. If he’s not doing what he does well, then what’s going to keep him on the court?

The assumption, to this point, was that the Lakers’ weak bench would serve to keep Gasol on the court by default. That seemed to be the case, at least until last Friday, when D’Antoni benched Gasol down the stretch of a loss to the Grizzlies in favor of Antawn Jamison. The Spaniard said that he couldn’t remember the last time he had suffered that fate. “I’d like to win this game,” is how D’Antoni explained his decision, adding that he meant no “disrespect.”

This type of benching always carries with it a certain symbolic value and it can often be a simple wake-up call. It’s also worth noting that Gasol, 32, has complained of “bothersome” tendinitis in his knees, a condition that would clearly be problematic under any coach, and particularly in D’Antoni’s desired fast-paced system. Even with those explanations and extenuating circumstances in mind, Gasol’s place in the Lakers’ lineup, once a foregone conclusion, now feels less so. The reason: Howard.

82Games.com’s lineup data reveals Gasol’s critical role to the Lakers since his arrival. In 2008-09, Gasol was included in nine of the Lakers’ 10 most-used five-man units. In ’09-10, seven of 10. In ’10-11, seven of 10. Last season, nine of 10. Bynum, meanwhile, was a less consistent presence, partly because of ongoing issues with his health. In ’08-09, Bynum was in just four of L.A.’s 10 most used lineups. In ’09-10, he was in five of them. In ’10-11, four again. Last season, his career year, he was in seven of 10. To boil it down, Bynum was never a more regular presence in L.A.’s most-used lineups than Gasol, even when playing his best basketball.

This season has shown a minor reversal. Despite his bad back, Howard is present in eight of the Lakers’ top-10 most-used five-man units. Gasol, meanwhile, is in just six of them. Howard and Gasol, to no one’s surprise, are both included in four of the Lakers’ five most-used five-man lineup combinations. The bigger issue for Gasol, though: Lineups that pair Jamison and Howard at power forward/center have produced uniformly positive results. If D’Antoni wants the Lakers to go smaller and faster, there’s nothing yet numbers-wise that suggests Jamison/Howard is a bad idea.

It’s new and different and weird not to see Gasol out there when it matters, but D’Antoni wasn’t nuts for making the move and he won’t be nuts if he does it again. It can be difficult to play two traditional bigs at the same time these days, and there’s not much question who should stay on the court when it becomes “Howard or Gasol” time. Howard is averaging 18 points, 10.6 rebounds, 2.7 blocks and 1.4 steals. Most important, he’s shooting 58.8 percent from the field. Even with his free-throw-shooting limitations, this is an easy choice, one that often went in Gasol’s favor in past seasons when it came time to pick him or Bynum.

Nash’s return promises to be a reckoning of sorts for Gasol. Nash will either incorporate Gasol into the offense in ways that haven’t yet occurred, ways that did occur in past seasons, or he will wind up kicking Gasol down another peg. As it stands, Gasol is the clear third option and he’s struggling. If you’re Nash, or D’Antoni, is the priority to improve the play of the third option or to maximize the whole? How critical, exactly, is Gasol’s individual play to the Lakers’ big picture?

The Los Angeles Times reported D’Antoni’s take on Sunday.

“Pau’s a great player and he always will be a great player, so we’ll keep tinkering and working. … We’ve got to figure out how to get him more involved. Not just him, how to get Dwight more involved. We can’t have our big guys just shooting four, five or six times.”

The Orange County Register reported Bryant’s thoughts.

“It is still a work in progress as far as trying to figure out what we’re doing. We are trying to figure out a balance of when we want to attack. Getting up and down is obviously a big part of it, which we are still trying to work on. It is a balance. If he [Gasol] feels like he needs more touches, then we will give him some. … I don’t think it’s really a big deal.”

Gasol would be forgiven if he read that as lip service, especially in light of D’Antoni’s recent statements that he wants more from small forward Metta World Peace and shooting guard Jodie Meeks. Even if the pace picks up substantially and Nash gets back to his full maestro capabilities, it’s impossible for everyone to do more. Bryant has stood up to protect Gasol from endless trade rumors in the past; he’s also stood up for his own role as the No. 1 option in the offense time after time. Who, exactly, will be giving up looks to placate Gasol’s concerns?

The Lakers have asked Gasol to sacrifice plenty over the years, and this sure looks like another case where he will need to bend to the team rather than the other way around. His play is virtually guaranteed to improve, considering how slowly he started and how distorted his shot-distribution chart looks. Featuring him a bit more on offense when he’s on the court with the Lakers’ substitutes should be able to turn the rough start into a more acceptable product, but Howard isn’t going away anytime soon. Gasol had to know that a transition was coming with Howard’s arrival, but it’s unlikely he expected that it would take place so swiftly and come so directly at his expense.

Kudos to Gasol, again, for pushing back a bit, but it’s quite possible this train will move along with him as a passenger rather than as one of the conductors. That approach could still produce a title for the Lakers, but Gasol would probably do well to leave thoughts of how he “earned his contracts” in the past. The truly high-achieving days are likely gone for good.


Due to his contract and the super tax ready to kick in, Pau will be hard to move this year. That being said, this guy can still be a very vital part in getting a ring this season. You bring in an offense that really doesn't highlight Pau's strengths, but a good offensive coach can make Pau a prominent part in their offensive scheme. Its up to D'Antoni to figure this thing out, but making him a token stretch 4 shouldn't be an option and most certainly isn't ideal.
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