Pau Appreciation: UnBullievable, no S&T - Thx 4 the Memories

Would you re-sign Pau for ~7 million per?

Yes
53
38%
No
71
52%
Maybe (explain)
12
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby revgen on Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:24 pm

I'll give Pau credit for not letting Milsap kill him this time.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby King of Clutch on Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:39 pm

bystander wrote:
G1 +15

Pau 8-19 23 pts
Brand 3-10 8 pts

G2 -3

Pau 7-14 16 pts
Aldrige 9-20 19 pts

G3 -5

Pau 5-9 10 pts
Griffin 6-15 15 pts

G4 +6

Pau 6-16 14 pts
Maxiell 3-7 8 pts

G5 -2

Pau 2-9 5pts
Millsap 2-7 7pts


Combined +11

Pau 28/67 .418 FG
Other teams starting PFs 23/59 .389 FG



Other teams starting PG+SG+SF combined against LA in these 5 games (3 players/12)

199 pts
39.8 pts/game
Opponets are averaging 99 pts/game

3 players out of 12 are averaging almost half of the points of their team against the Lakers and have in mind that the pistons only scored 11 pts (0+2+9)

Now give me the stats on how many points he gives up on the pick and roll, and how many points he gives up due to not rotating properly. Watching the games, its pretty clear that dwight is always put in bad situations covering for pau's bad defensive mistakes.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:40 pm

^^ one on one he's an average defender at best and certain players kill him.... but that the case for everyone to a certain extent. Where he's had huge issues in in the help defense.... as have Kobe and MWP btw... Pau's responsibility is to help the helper when it's on the opposite side of the floor from him..... opposing teams set it up that way every time down because we can't stop it..... we couldn't last year with the lazy fat slob in the middle and we can't this year..... there is one common element that spans the two time frames..... and it isn't the lazy fat slob.....
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby ben_ready on Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:42 pm

Rooscooter wrote:^^It's not about "box score" defense.... Even you have to concede that he is completely lost when the other team attacks the hoop.... the guard getting through the pick and roll and passing to Howard's man for a layup won't show up in that analysis. Nor will the rotational cover of a SF flying by him for an offensive rebound.

Defense is a team effort.... you can't quantify it like that....

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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Mr_Hollywood_Line on Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:51 pm

Rooscooter wrote:^^It's not about "box score" defense.... Even you have to concede that he is completely lost when the other team attacks the hoop.... the guard getting through the pick and roll and passing to Howard's man for a layup won't show up in that analysis. Nor will the rotational cover of a SF flying by him for an offensive rebound.

Defense is a team effort.... you can't quantify it like that....


This.

I knew I could count on the usual simpleton box score analysis from the usual Gasol apologists.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Finwë on Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:36 pm

Rooscooter wrote:^^It's not about "box score" defense.... Even you have to concede that he is completely lost when the other team attacks the hoop.... the guard getting through the pick and roll and passing to Howard's man for a layup won't show up in that analysis. Nor will the rotational cover of a SF flying by him for an offensive rebound.

Defense is a team effort.... you can't quantify it like that....

Exactly. Those stats are extremely misleading. Anyone watching the games and not being biased should admit Pau's effort and effectiveness on D has been awful. Especially his P&R D and his help D. Non-existant.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby bystander on Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:10 am

Whatever, once again people put words on my mouth. I didn't even excuse Pau's game. I only posted some facts. Pau might be playing poorly on D but the majority of the points this team allows are still from the perimeter. Since Pau came here with Odom, Bynum and now Howard the interior defense are not the problem but the perimeter defense.

Nice to read thet Defense is a team effort but the one who gets the blame always is the same guy. Pau's PNR D might not be elite but his help D has always been decent. His man to man D has been more than okay.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby kblo247 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:27 am

Bless your sould for mentioning Odom

Fact is Pau couldn't carry Lamar's jock in comparison to wha they both did as PFs on Defense in the team concept. All that penetration, all those poorly played switches, all the baselines given up so poorly, the obliteration by Dirk, Landry, Faried, and every PF he faced is why he never once closed a god damn game that matter in LA under Hil as a PF. He's way too soft, way too slow, and was too deep in his own head to react like Lamar did.

You go back and pull up the part where are down vs Boston in game 7 in the third from where Odom enters to the end, and you'll see the difference between an actual PF who can defend and an overgrown C whose too soft to play the position full time because of the banging and was originally put at PF to be rested and hid from bruisers, yet has been getting abused there throughout ever since Dirk pulled his punk card in LA like he did his last days in Memphis to the point Pau was accused of faking an injury to be traded away from the hate and pressure of being the guy
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby kblo247 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:28 am

Bless your sould for mentioning Odom

Fact is Pau couldn't carry Lamar's jock in comparison to wha they both did as PFs on Defense in the team concept. All that penetration, all those poorly played switches, all the baselines given up so poorly, the obliteration by Dirk, Landry, Faried, and every PF he faced is why he never once closed a god damn game that matter in LA under Phil as a PF. He's way too soft, way too slow, and was too deep in his own head to react like Lamar did.

You go back and pull up the part where are down vs Boston in game 7 in the third from where Odom enters to the end, and you'll see the difference between an actual PF who can defend and an overgrown C whose too soft to play the position full time because of the banging and was originally put at PF to be rested and hid from bruisers, yet has been getting abused there throughout ever since Dirk pulled his punk card in LA like he did his last days in Memphis to the point Pau was accused of faking an injury to be traded away from the hate and pressure of being the guy
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby bystander on Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:12 am

like he did his last days in Memphis to the point Pau was accused of faking an injury to be traded away from the hate and pressure of being the guy


Now we are making things up ? It's not like the rest of your post is any better.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby kblo247 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:43 am

He got a mysterious back injury after asking for a trade the season before, and doctors didn't find [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] wrong with the guy. He got heat from Heisley and then when he finally got traded it miraculously healed after a flight to La and then to the east coast. He dogged it and faked an injury because his seat was already hot from wanting out after going 0-12 in the playoffs and getting hurt off company time for Spain thus screwing Memphis and their season. They wanted his head because he wasn't deserving of being a max player, just like he isn't a 19M player now (should thank Kobe, Phil, and LO for that every day)

And it's the truth that he couldn't hold a candle to Lamar defending PFs let alone in a team concept. And it's true that Dirk bent him over and took his pride and manhood on the way out the door in both Memphis and LA (Stern) as he obliterated the guy and made him look like a space case (see end of game 1 where he fouls dirk intentionally with no fouls to give and la up and Kobe, Phil, Lamar, and everyone look like wtf are you doing or see Phil hitting him and screaming man up)
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby juninho on Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:45 am

like i post in LG:

bench gasol and mwp start meeks and jamison. never sit nash and kobe together,never use jamison-gasol or hill-d12 together. use duhon instead of morris. never use jamison as a backup sf.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby D.B. Cooper on Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:01 am

I wouldn't mind Gasol off the bench ala Gino.
juninho wrote:like i post in LG:

bench gasol and mwp start meeks and jamison. never sit nash and kobe together,never use jamison-gasol or hill-d12 together. use duhon instead of morris. never use jamison as a backup sf.


I like this, except I don't mind if MWP starts, just park him in the corner and tell him not to dribble, just shoot if open.

Start:
Nash
Kobe
MWP
Jamison
Howard

Gasol
Hill
Ebanks
Meeks
Blake

But if scenario permits mix in another starter with the bench to help Gasol, either Kobe or Nash
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Scnottaken on Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:17 am

kblo247 wrote:Bless your sould for mentioning Odom

Fact is Pau couldn't carry Lamar's jock in comparison to wha they both did as PFs on Defense in the team concept. All that penetration, all those poorly played switches, all the baselines given up so poorly, the obliteration by Dirk, Landry, Faried, and every PF he faced is why he never once closed a god damn game that matter in LA under Phil as a PF. He's way too soft, way too slow, and was too deep in his own head to react like Lamar did.

You go back and pull up the part where are down vs Boston in game 7 in the third from where Odom enters to the end, and you'll see the difference between an actual PF who can defend and an overgrown C whose too soft to play the position full time because of the banging and was originally put at PF to be rested and hid from bruisers, yet has been getting abused there throughout ever since Dirk pulled his punk card in LA like he did his last days in Memphis to the point Pau was accused of faking an injury to be traded away from the hate and pressure of being the guy

I've actually heard that the reason Pau didn't finish games as PF is because Phil didn't trust Bynum as the C to close games or some such.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby Doc Brown on Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:22 am

I don't like Gasol in the 2nd unit by himself with our bench. It didn't work last year, it won't this year. He's not going to go from being passive with the starters, to super aggressive with the bench. Ever since we got Hill, he's been getting the primary post touches in the 2nd unit over Pau.

At this point in his career, Pau needs to be setup to score, I don't know where his post game went, but it's not around that often anymore.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby D.B. Cooper on Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:23 am

Scnottaken wrote:
kblo247 wrote:Bless your sould for mentioning Odom

Fact is Pau couldn't carry Lamar's jock in comparison to wha they both did as PFs on Defense in the team concept. All that penetration, all those poorly played switches, all the baselines given up so poorly, the obliteration by Dirk, Landry, Faried, and every PF he faced is why he never once closed a god damn game that matter in LA under Phil as a PF. He's way too soft, way too slow, and was too deep in his own head to react like Lamar did.

You go back and pull up the part where are down vs Boston in game 7 in the third from where Odom enters to the end, and you'll see the difference between an actual PF who can defend and an overgrown C whose too soft to play the position full time because of the banging and was originally put at PF to be rested and hid from bruisers, yet has been getting abused there throughout ever since Dirk pulled his punk card in LA like he did his last days in Memphis to the point Pau was accused of faking an injury to be traded away from the hate and pressure of being the guy

I've actually heard that the reason Pau didn't finish games as PF is because Phil didn't trust Bynum as the C to close games or some such.

That and Phil understood that Bynum and Gasol clogs the middle and when he did use them both in his last season Gasol was a perimeter player and not as effective as in 2008-2010
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby D.B. Cooper on Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:28 am

Doc Brown wrote:I don't like Gasol in the 2nd unit by himself with our bench. It didn't work last year, it won't this year. He's not going to go from being passive with the starters, to super aggressive with the bench. Ever since we got Hill, he's been getting the primary post touches in the 2nd unit over Pau.

At this point in his career, Pau needs to be setup to score, I don't know where his post game went, but it's not around that often anymore.

Agree, you have to either keep Kobe or Nash with him and the 2nd unit but you must be able to juggle their minutes(Nash and Kob) so they don't get burned out, something Clown is not very good at.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby OX1947 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:31 am

kblo247 wrote:Bless your sould for mentioning Odom

Fact is Pau couldn't carry Lamar's jock in comparison to wha they both did as PFs on Defense in the team concept. All that penetration, all those poorly played switches, all the baselines given up so poorly, the obliteration by Dirk, Landry, Faried, and every PF he faced is why he never once closed a god damn game that matter in LA under Hil as a PF. He's way too soft, way too slow, and was too deep in his own head to react like Lamar did.

You go back and pull up the part where are down vs Boston in game 7 in the third from where Odom enters to the end, and you'll see the difference between an actual PF who can defend and an overgrown C whose too soft to play the position full time because of the banging and was originally put at PF to be rested and hid from bruisers, yet has been getting abused there throughout ever since Dirk pulled his punk card in LA like he did his last days in Memphis to the point Pau was accused of faking an injury to be traded away from the hate and pressure of being the guy


I find it hilarious that you picked the one game Gasol beasted like no other time in his career, physically, to point out how soft Gasol is. As a matter of fact, if you go back to the first 5 min of the game, Gasol was saving the Lakers arses with his offensive rebounding. That was with Bynum at center.

A person's mind can so easily be manipulated, not by someone else, but by him or herself because of pure hate or dislike. Like it or not, you would be wiping your butt with 2nd round or WC Finalists t-shirts in 09 and 10 if it weren't for Gasol. So, you might want to remember that.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby therealdeal on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:08 am

D.B. Cooper wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:I don't like Gasol in the 2nd unit by himself with our bench. It didn't work last year, it won't this year. He's not going to go from being passive with the starters, to super aggressive with the bench. Ever since we got Hill, he's been getting the primary post touches in the 2nd unit over Pau.

At this point in his career, Pau needs to be setup to score, I don't know where his post game went, but it's not around that often anymore.

Agree, you have to either keep Kobe or Nash with him and the 2nd unit but you must be able to juggle their minutes(Nash and Kob) so they don't get burned out, something Clown is not very good at.

Gasol showed some post game earlier this season when we made it a point to get him the ball on the low block. He showed glimpses of that lefty hook that's so pretty.

The all of a sudden he's letting himself get pushed out of the post and he's not getting position or when he does have position, guys take too long to get him the ball. I agree that he's more of a set-up/setter-up type of player now though and I think that's what people confuse things on.

Offensively Pau has been pretty crucial to the team. He passes extremely well for a 7 footer and that really has freed up Howard to have this insanely efficient start. Same with Kobe.

Defensively... well we're running a system that requires him to do things he can't do. He is still being told to funnel baseline, but he's not fast enough to challenge those shots like he used to. He's still being told to come over on help, but he's not quick enough to do that much either. These things are discouraging for us and especially for him I'm sure. Then as his confidence erodes, he makes other mistakes. I haven't seen him box out for Mike Brown ever I think. That's mental. He knows better.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby wcsoldier81 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:45 am

Bottom line is Pau isn't a good fit at PF in today's league ... too slow and can't guard mobile and face up players ... I still think our current starting SF and PF should be replaced ... this starting 5 is too old and too slow
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby thkthebest on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:11 am

Now, we want to start Jamison? He is everything you guys don't like about Pau...except worse.

Defense? Jamison's is far worse. If you think Pau is bad, then you guys need to play closer attention to Jamison.

Passiveness? What in the world has Jamison been doing? He averages less than 3 shots a game.

Rebounding? Lol.

Starting Jamison can only do one thing and that's make our team worse.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby bystander on Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:19 pm

kblo247 wrote:He got a mysterious back injury after asking for a trade the season before, and doctors didn't find [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] wrong with the guy. He got heat from Heisley and then when he finally got traded it miraculously healed after a flight to La and then to the east coast. He dogged it and faked an injury because his seat was already hot from wanting out after going 0-12 in the playoffs and getting hurt off company time for Spain thus screwing Memphis and their season. They wanted his head because he wasn't deserving of being a max player, just like he isn't a 19M player now (should thank Kobe, Phil, and LO for that every day)


What a bunch of nonsense. Pau Gasol has always been a winner. From someone who has watched over 7 years in his Memphis days i can tell you don't know what you are talking about.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby venky on Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:32 pm

This guy needs to go. He's done.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby The Original 81 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:17 pm

Pau's post game only consists of fadeaway jumpers. WTF happened to his low post game? I mean every touch results in a fadeaway. Like he doesn't even try anymore...
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion

Postby GoldHammish on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:20 pm

The Original 81 wrote:Pau's post game only consists of fadeaway jumpers. WTF happened to his low post game? I mean every touch results in jabstep, jabstep, jabstep, jabstep, then a fadeaway. Like he doesn't even try anymore...

fixed :man1:
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