Pau Thread: Surgery a success; now rehab & rest for 12 weeks

There is no right price for trading Kobe. Neither financially or in terms of basketball production.

therealdeal wrote:There is no right price for trading Kobe. Neither financially or in terms of basketball production.

I agree...can't screw history books for the sake of a salary dump or rebuilding for the future. Kobe is here to stay, retire, get a statue and retire his number. Anything else is impossible to imagine for me.

I'd trade Pau for the right price too but apparently Pau's value is only equal to Derrick Williams and bench players. I'd rather keep Pau if that's the highest price people are willing to offer. I've seen some trade proposals with the Celtics that didn't even include Avery Bradley...a guy like that would almost pretty much solve the point guard defense problem they have.

To get fair value for how Gasol is playing right now (assuming he keeps this up), we need to get back:

-starting athletic stretch PF
-backup SF that can create/get own shot (Jamal Crawford skill-set 6th man, not necessarily that good)
-nice backup PG

Gasol+Blake+Ebanks would be our package.

therealdeal wrote:There is no right price for trading Kobe. Neither financially or in terms of basketball production.

not to get off topic as this would need it's own thread, but you if you had the chance to get lebron or durant as the starting pieces for kobe, you wouldn't do it?

i can't imagine kobe not retiring a laker, but if i'm offered lbj for him, i'm sitting down and talking to the angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other.

Punk-101 wrote:To get fair value for how Gasol is playing right now (assuming he keeps this up), we need to get back:

-starting athletic stretch PF
-backup SF that can create/get own shot (Jamal Crawford skill-set 6th man, not necessarily that good)
-nice backup PG

Gasol+Blake+Ebanks would be our package.

Ebanks has a no trade clause.
Blake is a bum.
Pau is old, broken down, and not worth giving up quality pieces for, apparently.

If Mitch could somehow get in on a multi-player trade and grab a wing player for an expiring contract...they wouldn't necessarily need to trade Pau. Last season the Clippers got in on the Nene/Javale McGoo trade and got Nick Young for Brian Cook's expiring and a 2nd round pick. Duhon + wutever for Ariza maybe?

Pig Miller wrote:

therealdeal wrote:There is no right price for trading Kobe. Neither financially or in terms of basketball production.

not to get off topic as this would need it's own thread, but you if you had the chance to get lebron or durant as the starting pieces for kobe, you wouldn't do it?

i can't imagine kobe not retiring a laker, but if i'm offered lbj for him, i'm sitting down and talking to the angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other.

If I didn't have any emotional attachment to Kobe as a player I would easily do it because I want to win championships. However the dude is going all out this season and refuses to let age deter him so you have to respect how well he's playing even if he's not the best player in the league anymore.

Greatest of All Time wrote:

Punk-101 wrote:To get fair value for how Gasol is playing right now (assuming he keeps this up), we need to get back:

-starting athletic stretch PF
-backup SF that can create/get own shot (Jamal Crawford skill-set 6th man, not necessarily that good)
-nice backup PG

Gasol+Blake+Ebanks would be our package.

Ebanks has a no trade clause.
Blake is a bum.
Pau is old, broken down, and not worth giving up quality pieces for, apparently.

Ebanks may waive his clause if he goes to a team that would give him something other than DNP-CDs.

I'm assuming Pau's value for how he's playing right now. If he continues putting up the numbers he has been since Nash's return on 50%+ shooting, teams may be willing to take Bum-Blake to get Gasol.

therealdeal wrote:There is no right price for trading Kobe. Neither financially or in terms of basketball production.

I would disagree. Doing a deal with the Heat but that's a discussion for elsewhere.

charvin wrote:

therealdeal wrote:There is no right price for trading Kobe. Neither financially or in terms of basketball production.

I would disagree. Doing a deal with the Heat but that's a discussion for elsewhere.

Pig Miller wrote:

therealdeal wrote:There is no right price for trading Kobe. Neither financially or in terms of basketball production.

not to get off topic as this would need it's own thread, but you if you had the chance to get lebron or durant as the starting pieces for kobe, you wouldn't do it?

i can't imagine kobe not retiring a laker, but if i'm offered lbj for him, i'm sitting down and talking to the angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other.

It's not always about play on the court. The Lakers make more money from Kobe Bryant than any other NBA player makes for any other team. Kobe Bryant sells the most jerseys, the most tickets, and the most merchandise for the Lakers and to trade him would mean trading away pure profit. Even at a contract of 30 million, I'd guess the Lakers make probably 2-3 times that amount off of his name alone.

As for on court production, the Lakers are getting one of the top 5 players in the game. If for some reason the Heat wanted to give up LeBron AND Bosh for Kobe, that might be the only deal that's both worth it financially and in terms of basketball production, but of course that's ridiculous.

Punk-101 wrote:

Greatest of All Time wrote:

Punk-101 wrote:To get fair value for how Gasol is playing right now (assuming he keeps this up), we need to get back:

-starting athletic stretch PF
-backup SF that can create/get own shot (Jamal Crawford skill-set 6th man, not necessarily that good)
-nice backup PG

Gasol+Blake+Ebanks would be our package.

Ebanks has a no trade clause.
Blake is a bum.
Pau is old, broken down, and not worth giving up quality pieces for, apparently.

Ebanks may waive his clause if he goes to a team that would give him something other than DNP-CDs.

I'm assuming Pau's value for how he's playing right now. If he continues putting up the numbers he has been since Nash's return on 50%+ shooting, teams may be willing to take Bum-Blake to get Gasol.

Sadly, I don't think any team would play Ebanks. His only value right now is as an expiring contract.

The problem is that a team trying to take Pau would have to give up several players for Pau alone just to match salaries. Pau + Ebanks + Bum is ~$24 million in salary. The Lakers would have to take back additional garbage if they're going to send out Ebanks and Blake.

Unless they can get someone like Ryan Anderson or Kevin Love, any stretch 4 they get back would be a huge downgrade. And I don't think they'd get a backup 1 and 3 if they're getting a guy that good. Would it be worth downgrading Pau for 3-4 so-so players?

They could also trade Pau for a starting defensive 3 that can slash and shoot and start Ron Artest at the 4 but again, I'd want someone that's actually good.

The only way I could see a trade happening if they pull off a crazy multi-team team deal. Otherwise, they're going to keep Pau if he keeps playing the way he's playing.

Paukeem Gajuwon

^^ Should be paukeem gasojuwon. lol, just to keep olajuwon's syllable count. lol

charvin wrote:

therealdeal wrote:There is no right price for trading Kobe. Neither financially or in terms of basketball production.

I would disagree. Doing a deal with the Heat but that's a discussion for elsewhere.

How can there be no right price for trading Kobe? That's crazy. If you could get two younger superstars for Kobe, why wouldn't you do it?

I mean, for Kobe and Pau you can get Lebron, Wade and Bosh. Nash/Wade/LBJ/Bosh/D12. LOL!

Or, you could do a 3-way with OKC & Miami. Lakers get Lebron, Bosh and Durant for Kobe, Pau and OKC gets Dwayne Wade. This one I'd do! (Then we can go small with Durant or LBJ changing spots at the 3/4 like MDA wants, haha).

I mean how can there be absolutely no price for trading Kobe? Virtually any trade that makes this Laker team a better one would be the right price. Now, there is no reasonable trade that could happen where we would net out a better team sans Kobe of course, but to say there isn't a trade scenario under ANY condition that would be the right price makes no sense to me.

Yeah....damn....really wish we could've traded Magic at the end of his all Lakers career and had him finish elsewhere. Rather than as a Laker for those who regard him as the greatest Laker of all time. And others. West? Am sure we could have gotten something pretty good for him if we did it early enough. Not quite the same ring to it.

JGC wrote:

charvin wrote:

therealdeal wrote:There is no right price for trading Kobe. Neither financially or in terms of basketball production.

I would disagree. Doing a deal with the Heat but that's a discussion for elsewhere.

How can there be no right price for trading Kobe? That's crazy. If you could get two younger superstars for Kobe, why wouldn't you do it?

I mean, for Kobe and Pau you can get Lebron, Wade and Bosh. Nash/Wade/LBJ/Bosh/D12. LOL!

Or, you could do a 3-way with OKC & Miami. Lakers get Lebron, Bosh and Durant for Kobe, Pau and OKC gets Dwayne Wade. This one I'd do! (Then we can go small with Durant or LBJ changing spots at the 3/4 like MDA wants, haha).

I mean how can there be absolutely no price for trading Kobe? Virtually any trade that makes this Laker team a better one would be the right price. Now, there is no reasonable trade that could happen where we would net out a better team sans Kobe of course, but to say there isn't a trade scenario under ANY condition that would be the right price makes no sense to me.

Boring semantics.

LTLakerFan wrote:Yeah....damn....really wish we could've traded Magic at the end of his all Lakers career and had him finish elsewhere. Rather than as a Laker for those who regard him as the greatest Laker of all time. And others. Not quite the same ring to it.

Well, it just depends. We're getting off topic here but if we're not giving up rings to keep someone in that scenario then of course you want to keep them around. I'd love nothing more than for Kobe to eclipse Jordan's ring count.

BUT... if you told me we would never win a ring with Kobe again, and you gave me the opportunity to get rings for the Lakers organization by trading him for other players, I can't think of any reason why you wouldn't do that.

Kobe is a Laker for life no matter what, but I want the Lakers to win above all else.

But it will be interesting and scary at the same time for a Lakers fan if Kobe is still healthy and playing at a high level at the end of his contract next year, still closing in on Kareem and Jordan and more all time records .... and decides he wants to have another contract and stay with the Lakers. He knows they can't pay him what he's worth and go forward. Has an "alpha dog" ever given up that much for a team to take as ridiculous pay cut as he would have to take so the team could pursue other stars to secure its future?? Then maybe they have to work something out....can't do sign and trades any more, right, if over the CAP? I'd love to see Kobe be the first mega star to do that and then make it up on the marketing and endorsement end. Probably not happening.

Ooops correction....."scary" for any Lakers fan not named odom1year

therealdeal wrote:

JGC wrote:

charvin wrote:

therealdeal wrote:There is no right price for trading Kobe. Neither financially or in terms of basketball production.

I would disagree. Doing a deal with the Heat but that's a discussion for elsewhere.

How can there be no right price for trading Kobe? That's crazy. If you could get two younger superstars for Kobe, why wouldn't you do it?

I mean, for Kobe and Pau you can get Lebron, Wade and Bosh. Nash/Wade/LBJ/Bosh/D12. LOL!

Or, you could do a 3-way with OKC & Miami. Lakers get Lebron, Bosh and Durant for Kobe, Pau and OKC gets Dwayne Wade. This one I'd do! (Then we can go small with Durant or LBJ changing spots at the 3/4 like MDA wants, haha).

I mean how can there be absolutely no price for trading Kobe? Virtually any trade that makes this Laker team a better one would be the right price. Now, there is no reasonable trade that could happen where we would net out a better team sans Kobe of course, but to say there isn't a trade scenario under ANY condition that would be the right price makes no sense to me.

Boring semantics.

Wait, are you then, in a way, saying then that you would trade Kobe for ANY price? Don't get all semantics on me now!

I'm not sure how people are supposed to infer that by saying "there is no right price" you really mean "there is a right price". Sheesh.

LTLakerFan wrote:But it will be interesting and scary at the same time for a Lakers fan if Kobe is still healthy and playing at a high level at the end of his contract next year, still closing in on Kareem and Jordan and more all time records .... and decides he wants to have another contract and stay with the Lakers. He knows they can't pay him what he's worth and go forward. Has an "alpha dog" ever given up that much for a team to take as ridiculous pay cut as he would have to take so the team could pursue other stars to secure its future?? Then maybe they have to work something out....can't do sign and trades any more, right, if over the CAP? I'd love to see Kobe be the first mega star to do that and then make it up on the marketing and endorsement end. Probably not happening.

Well, that might be a bit of an unfair comparison. I don't think any alpha male has ever had a contract of this magnitude, have they at nearly $30M per?

I'm no contracts guru, but isn't it impossible for any current superstar to get a contract the size of what Kobe is getting now due to CBA restriction?

I could have sworn Kobe is grandfathered in from years ago. At any rate, I would love to see Kobe stay with the Lakers for years and years even if he is only a role player. I personally, don't want to see him retire "on top"... But man, if Nash can still command a $9M salary ... Kobe is going to want at least double that after his current contract is up. GULP.

DeMarcus Cousins/Thorton/Fredette or Salmons package? DMC is a nut case but i think he can turn it around with the right organization and players to coach him.

Kobe is a Laker for life, just like Magic and West before him.

Regarding Pau's play, which is what this thread is about, it's nice that he made those 2 threes but I'll keep harping on it. Pau is a post player. Mike 2 needs to get over his hatred of post play, but Pau is at his best in the post. High post, mid post, low post, that's where he needs to be. High post means high low to Dwight, which is a money play. Low post means that nice lefty hook. I don't like Pau shooting 3's at all, even if they go in.

I do think he's playing better ball over all and I'm sensing a return of Pau's swag that he had 3 seasons ago. He looks like he's enjoying himself again and the team feeds on that. Pau is still the barometer to this team's success and he has been since he was traded here.

Pau's 3 point shooting spaces the floor and gives Nash, Dwight and Kobe more room to operate. It's not like he's standing in the corner chucking up 3s on every possession. He's shown the aggressiveness to drive and/or post up when he's not shooting 3s these past few games.

He needs to get rid of that "hands" thing he caught from Kwame when we were back there. Sheesh!

I thought by financially, you meant in terms of salary issues, not Lakers revenue being earned off of Kobe.

As for the right price-wise, of course, I wasn't thinking of LBJ & Bosh. May sound foolish, but I'd target LBJ, Battier, and a random filler for the required salary. From that, you *can* get near-equal production in basketball production, plus a defender/3 point shooter which is what this team is lacking, somewhat. To have someone so dedicated on defense (think back to the revelation of Battier having almost an entire book on Kobe's tendencies), it sounded good to me to get him because this team has the fire power, just lacks a SF defender/shooter.

therealdeal wrote:

charvin wrote:

therealdeal wrote:There is no right price for trading Kobe. Neither financially or in terms of basketball production.

I would disagree. Doing a deal with the Heat but that's a discussion for elsewhere.

Pig Miller wrote:

therealdeal wrote:There is no right price for trading Kobe. Neither financially or in terms of basketball production.

not to get off topic as this would need it's own thread, but you if you had the chance to get lebron or durant as the starting pieces for kobe, you wouldn't do it?

i can't imagine kobe not retiring a laker, but if i'm offered lbj for him, i'm sitting down and talking to the angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other.

It's not always about play on the court. The Lakers make more money from Kobe Bryant than any other NBA player makes for any other team. Kobe Bryant sells the most jerseys, the most tickets, and the most merchandise for the Lakers and to trade him would mean trading away pure profit. Even at a contract of 30 million, I'd guess the Lakers make probably 2-3 times that amount off of his name alone.

As for on court production, the Lakers are getting one of the top 5 players in the game. If for some reason the Heat wanted to give up LeBron AND Bosh for Kobe, that might be the only deal that's both worth it financially and in terms of basketball production, but of course that's ridiculous.