Pau Appreciation: UnBullievable, no S&T - Thx 4 the Memories

Would you re-sign Pau for ~7 million per?

Yes
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38%
No
71
52%
Maybe (explain)
12
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby khmrP on Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:11 pm

if thats how Pringles wants to utilize Pau (shooting corner 3's) he has to be moved, simple as that. Doesn't appear Antoni wants to adjust anything for anyone on this team, I dont see any different Pau when Nash is back, he'll still have to play the stretch 4 role and settle for jump shots.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby bystander on Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:16 pm

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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby LooN3y on Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:37 pm

MDA, has 2 of the best 7 footers in the league, and doesnt want to utilize them to their full potential.



:bang:
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby 432J on Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:39 pm

LooN3y wrote:MDA, has 2 of the best 7 footers in the league, and doesnt want to utilize them to their full potential.



:bang:

phil would have brought out the full potential in both of them.....

just saying
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby odom1year on Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:42 pm

D'Antoni wants Pau to take more 3s. It's going to be funny.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby Greatest of All Time on Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:32 pm

A description of Pringles' offense:

His system is "have two forwards run routes in transition and give full control to your PG; have the forwards space the floor with 3pt shooting, and have the PG and PF/C run reams of PnRs."

That's his system. There isn't a ton of off-ball movement, not a great deal of off-ball screening. It's heavily reliant upon early offense out of man-advantage transition sets and in the secondary break before the defense settles. Other than that, it's just PnR PnR PnR, and it is heavily reliant upon a strong playmaking 1. He's not a heavy Xs and Os guy, so he doesn't extract a great deal of value if he's running with limited talent at the 1 and a shooting 4. He's allergic to post-ups.

Think Don Nelson, only stupider. Don Nelson was, once upon a time, a good coach who eventually became allergic to conventional basketball, developed a hatred for post play and big men in general, and got addicted to small ball and up-tempo basketball. Mike D is essentially his moronic cousin.


So they basically jack up all those 3s because they literally have no other option besides a pick and roll or Kobe iso. They have to try to score BEFORE the defense sets up which results in all this chucking and long rebounds and crappy transition defense.

I've done my fair share of Pau bashing but this offense is a complete joke. Jimbo Buss is a clown for hiring this clown and I fear the good Dr. Buss has officially gone senile for approving it.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby wcsoldier81 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:34 am

The Rock wrote:How about Pau show that he can post up when hes the only big man on the court and then we can determine whether he can post up with Dwight on the floor or not? Listen when you're not doing the easier tasks well you're not gonna get your way when there are more important pieces on the floor.

Pau had trouble scoring in the post when Lamar was around in 2011. Pau was effective from time to time last year with Bynum around but again when he was the primary C with the 2nd unit didnt play well, hes having the same issues now. hes the common factor. How many more adjustments needs to be made for this guy? 3 diferent head coaches, 3 different frontcourt teammates and yet hes still struggling, hes the problem

There was plenty of evidence from the 2011 playoffs alone to see even when hes posted up as a primary scoring option he cant be relied on. Its time for him to stick to doing what he does best these days...rebound, shoot free throws and pass because right now you're getting WIDE OPEN 10 to 12 foot looks and you cant even convert them and you cant even post up when you're with the 2nd unit. There are opportunities for you to be effective and play to your strengths and you're not doing that


I think we all agree with Pau ain't doing jack in the post since the 2011 playoffs but Pau even when playing the 5 last night didn't have any post touches (the only one I remember is that quick give and go pass to Metta to start the 4th)

That's why the whole MDA argument " I won't play Pau and D12 too many minutes together so Pau can play the 5" is BS
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby Damian Necronamous on Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:41 am

Judging by all of D'Antoni's comments, I do think Pau will be traded by the deadline.

What are everybody's thoughts on this one?

Pau, DJO, Ebanks and Clark for Shannon Brown, Markieff Morris, Jared Dudley and Channing Frye

Obviously, Frye is a big ? after this season but if Jeff Green can come back then I'd see no reason that Frye couldn't.

As far as this year goes, we'd essentially be swapping Pau for Brown, Dudley and Morris. Blake, Brown, Dudley, Metta, Jamison and Hill off the bench would be really good. Morris also stretches the floor much better than Pau in the starting lineup.

Phoenix does it to give themselves a squad with Dragic, Beasley, Scola, Pau and Gortat.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby bystander on Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:44 am

Pau is gone, we all know that. The day D'Antoni was hired it was clear he was trade chip for the team. It's now a matter of time. Mitch want him to play with Nash before trade him but the "coach" has no interest of making it work instead of trading him for players for his system.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby kenzo on Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:46 am

If Mitch is forced to do that, he should quit and not be associated with BS like that.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby The Rock on Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:05 am

bystander wrote:Pau is gone, we all know that. The day D'Antoni was hired it was clear he was trade chip for the team. It's now a matter of time. Mitch want him to play with Nash before trade him but the "coach" has no interest of making it work instead of trading him for players for his system.


How about making himself untradeable? He has trade rumors circulating last year too after the David Stern veto and it affected play, Kobe had to step up for him. Look there are ways he can contribute here to help us win if hes not doign that he's got to go. From 2011 playoffs onwards he hasn't done an adequate job of helping us win. HE knows what the deal is, if you win in LA you're praised if not you're shipped out. Either he can help solve the team's problems by playing to his strengths or he'll get traded for someone who will
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby 432J on Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:21 am

i'm pretty sure what will happen is that nash returns, pau still sucks, and they move him by mid january

he just hasn't been the same since the 09-10 season
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby khmrP on Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:51 am

Greatest of All Time wrote:A description of Pringles' offense:

His system is "have two forwards run routes in transition and give full control to your PG; have the forwards space the floor with 3pt shooting, and have the PG and PF/C run reams of PnRs."

That's his system. There isn't a ton of off-ball movement, not a great deal of off-ball screening. It's heavily reliant upon early offense out of man-advantage transition sets and in the secondary break before the defense settles. Other than that, it's just PnR PnR PnR, and it is heavily reliant upon a strong playmaking 1. He's not a heavy Xs and Os guy, so he doesn't extract a great deal of value if he's running with limited talent at the 1 and a shooting 4. He's allergic to post-ups.

Think Don Nelson, only stupider. Don Nelson was, once upon a time, a good coach who eventually became allergic to conventional basketball, developed a hatred for post play and big men in general, and got addicted to small ball and up-tempo basketball. Mike D is essentially his moronic cousin.


So they basically jack up all those 3s because they literally have no other option besides a pick and roll or Kobe iso. They have to try to score BEFORE the defense sets up which results in all this chucking and long rebounds and crappy transition defense.

I've done my fair share of Pau bashing but this offense is a complete joke. Jimbo Buss is a clown for hiring this clown and I fear the good Dr. Buss has officially gone senile for approving it.


that writing looks more to be some random fan then an actual analyst.....I'm not a fan of his right now but that brake down is moronic, if its such a horrible system why do so many teams run this type of O with minor tweaks here and there.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby bystander on Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:25 am

The Rock wrote:
bystander wrote:Pau is gone, we all know that. The day D'Antoni was hired it was clear he was trade chip for the team. It's now a matter of time. Mitch want him to play with Nash before trade him but the "coach" has no interest of making it work instead of trading him for players for his system.


How about making himself untradeable? He has trade rumors circulating last year too after the David Stern veto and it affected play, Kobe had to step up for him. Look there are ways he can contribute here to help us win if hes not doign that he's got to go. From 2011 playoffs onwards he hasn't done an adequate job of helping us win. HE knows what the deal is, if you win in LA you're praised if not you're shipped out. Either he can help solve the team's problems by playing to his strengths or he'll get traded for someone who will


Nice try. Keep going on your new target. Last year it was Bynum this year is Pau. Good for you.

FWIW last year there wasn't just rumors of him after the veto, he was in fact traded and still he gave it all he had in that time.

The rest of your post is pointless. No matter what, Pau is still at worst top-5 (top 10 if you're full of hate) PF of the game and he is what he is in the paint. Asking a 32 proven all star to change his game is stupid. He tried with Brown without complaing because Mike Brown is many things, but not an arrogant prick like other coaches.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby The Rock on Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:39 am

bystander wrote:
The Rock wrote:
bystander wrote:Pau is gone, we all know that. The day D'Antoni was hired it was clear he was trade chip for the team. It's now a matter of time. Mitch want him to play with Nash before trade him but the "coach" has no interest of making it work instead of trading him for players for his system.


How about making himself untradeable? He has trade rumors circulating last year too after the David Stern veto and it affected play, Kobe had to step up for him. Look there are ways he can contribute here to help us win if hes not doign that he's got to go. From 2011 playoffs onwards he hasn't done an adequate job of helping us win. HE knows what the deal is, if you win in LA you're praised if not you're shipped out. Either he can help solve the team's problems by playing to his strengths or he'll get traded for someone who will


Nice try. Keep going on your new target. Last year it was Bynum this year is Pau. Good for you.

FWIW last year there wasn't just rumors of him after the veto, he was in fact traded and still he gave it all he had in that time.

The rest of your post is pointless. No matter what, Pau is still at worst top-5 (top 10 if you're full of hate) PF of the game and he is what he is in the paint. Asking a 32 proven all star to change his game is stupid. He tried with Brown without complaing because Mike Brown is many things, but not an arrogant prick like other coaches.



I will always be grateful for what Pau has done for this team and I still think we can win a championship with him playing the way he is because we have better players on the team who will take on more responsibilites while we basically limit his responsibilities.

He hasn't been an All star since 2011 and that was also a questionable pick. There are opportunities here for Pau to be the focal point of the offense, with the 2nd unit when he's in with the bench and hes just not effective. How do you explain that? We got rid of the poor guards who were poor post entry passers like Farmar and later Shannon Brown and still his issues in trying to get himself going exist. He's getting adequate amount of minutes to be the primary post option when Howard is out of the game, we've seen this for almost 20 games on what basis am I supposed to believe hes still a top 5 Power Forward if he's still not doing the things we're accustomed to seeing?

Right now he's an elite rebounder and elite passer, there is still value in this team for that. He either needs to accept his role or try to carry the offense whens hes the primary post scorer. If he can't even do the easier tasks where theres not much pressure on him then he needs to go
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:48 am

kenzo wrote:If Mitch is forced to do that, he should quit and not be associated with BS like that.


I hate to bring more drama, but yeah, I have a feeling that Mitch very well might actually bail at the end of the year if he's forced to move Pau against his wishes. The guy is the GM, and a great one at that. Let him do his job as he sees fit.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:55 am

khmrP wrote:if thats how Pringles wants to utilize Pau (shooting corner 3's) he has to be moved, simple as that. Doesn't appear Antoni wants to adjust anything for anyone on this team.


^^ Yeah, it's annoying. My take is if Antoni wants to utilize Pau like that then ANTONI should be moved, simple as that. If you can't figure out how to make this lineup work as constituted you should be booted just like Mike Brown. Until Antoni starts winning like Bernie did he falls into the Mike Brown category to me. All the things he's saying and threatening to do right now are beginning to really irritate me.

Why not just let Nash run the offense with the guys you have before messing around with everyone's position and recreating the wheel. I hate the kind of confusion, dysfunction and second guessing he's bringing right now. Just simplify this crap. You have four Hall of Fame players as your starters. Play them together with Ron, still one of the best defenders in the league. You have a bench full of capable role players: Duhon, Meeks, Jamison and Hill. Let them play their roles off the bench. Utilize what was given to you in a rational manner. Screw your "system." Just let the players do their thing and make sensible substitutions and limit your starters' minutes. This isn't rocket science.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby Juronimo on Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:14 am

Lakerjones wrote:
khmrP wrote:if thats how Pringles wants to utilize Pau (shooting corner 3's) he has to be moved, simple as that. Doesn't appear Antoni wants to adjust anything for anyone on this team.


^^ Yeah, it's annoying. My take is if Antoni wants to utilize Pau like that then ANTONI should be moved, simple as that. If you can't figure out how to make this lineup work as constituted you should be booted just like Mike Brown. Until Antoni starts winning like Bernie did he falls into the Mike Brown category to me. All the things he's saying and threatening to do right now are beginning to really irritate me.

Why not just let Nash run the offense with the guys you have before messing around with everyone's position and recreating the wheel. I hate the kind of confusion, dysfunction and second guessing he's bringing right now. Just simplify this crap. You have four Hall of Fame players as your starters. Play them together with Ron, still one of the best defenders in the league. You have a bench full of capable role players: Duhon, Meeks, Jamison and Hill. Let them play their roles off the bench. Utilize what was given to you in a rational manner. Screw your "system." Just let the players do their thing and make sensible substitutions and limit your starters' minutes. This isn't rocket science.


I could not have said it better. Dantoni is really bugging me as well as of late. I don't know what he's doing out there.

I understand doing run and gun in Phoenix. In Phoenix, Amare was hurt and Boris Diaw and Tim Thomas were playing center. With a team like that, you have to run and gun with players out of position.

It seems that Mike wants to force a way of playing on a team that was built for that. We have a complete team when healthy of proven players, yet Mike 2, like Mike 1, is unnecessarily complicating things, making illogical decisions that confuse.

Kobe playing 44 minutes makes no sense.
30 three's a game makes no sense.
Refusing to go to Dwight in the paint makes no sense.
Playing Ron at the 4, Kobe at the 3 makes no sense.
Does he really want Pau shooting 3's? Really? One of the best post players in the league is supposed to shoot 3's? Please tell me he didn't say this. :bang:

Now as far as Pau is concerned, which this thread is about, he did look good out there. His body language looked much better. He looked like he enjoyed being on the court and he was making plays and even played some D. It was a good sign, seeing him look like he was enjoying himself. I haven't seen Pau look like that in a while. He obviously got tired towards the end of halves but he looked great out there.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:25 am

^^ Great post Juronimo. I agree with you, it's starting to become history repeating itself with the two Mikes and their crazy-making decisions. Ugh. And I agree with you about Pau looking good out there last game which was nice to see.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby The Rock on Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:31 pm

This is good

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-lakers-fyi-20121221,0,4833651.story

Pau Gasol and Mike D'Antoni met Wednesday night to hammer out some obvious differences since D'Antoni took over as the Lakers' coach, The Times has learned.

Gasol said he wanted the ball in the post instead of on the perimeter and also asked to play in crunch time, among the topics discussed with D'Antoni at a Manhattan Beach restaurant.

"It was to make sure we're in the same boat," Gasol said in a quiet moment Thursday after the Lakers' practice. "We're trying to reach the same goal. Let's communicate. Hopefully, we can meet halfway on some points."

D'Antoni told Gasol he would no longer be benched in crucial situations, according to a person familiar with the conversation.

Gasol has been benched three times in the fourth quarter since D'Antoni was hired, including the last 2 minutes 36 seconds of the Lakers 101-100 victory Tuesday over Charlotte. It was Gasol's first game after sitting out eight in a row because of tendinitis in his knees.

He sat out the entire fourth quarter Nov. 23 against Memphis and the last 6:07 of a Dec. 2 game against Orlando.

Gasol hopes D'Antoni can fiddle with his push-the-pace offense to accommodate the four-time All-Star, who wants to stay with the Lakers despite trade possibilities clinging to him since last December.

So he told D'Antoni to trust him with the ball, alluding to his past success of two NBA championships and two trips to the Olympic gold-medal game.

D'Antoni was the initiator of the meeting, suggesting they get dinner, something he would do with players individually from time to time. Was he making sure he wasn't "losing" Gasol?

"I didn't think I was," D'Antoni told The Times. "But I wanted to make sure he knew what my vision was for him and the team and see if that's all good. Then we'll tweak it or not tweak it.

"I thought he was great and gave me a lot of insight into a lot of things. It was more of a feeling-out process and what makes him feel comfortable. He's a very intelligent basketball player. Why wouldn't I get his opinion about a lot of things?"

Gasol's numbers have dipped significantly this season. He is averaging 12.4 points and 8.8 rebounds, and shooting only 41.3%.

Gasol didn't talk about increased touches with D'Antoni but, rather, specific places he wanted the ball. He doesn't feel comfortable with it so far from the basket, the norm for him in D'Antoni's offense.

"We didn't even really talk about [number of] touches because I don't believe in that," D'Antoni said. "But I believe in him being involved."

D'Antoni has tried to figure out how to incorporate Gasol and Dwight Howard in an offense that features a lot of Kobe Bryant shots. D'Antoni's latest attempt was to play Gasol and Howard together for only 4:04 in the second half of Tuesday's game.

Gasol, 32, makes $19 million this season and has one more year on his contract for $19.3 million.

Nash scrimmages

Reporters were allowed into Thursday's practice in just enough time to see Steve Nash drop off a pass to Metta World Peace for a fastbreak layup.

Nash scrimmaged for the first time since missing 24 games because of a small fracture in his left leg.

"He wasn't huffing and puffing that much," D'Antoni said.

Nash said he might play Saturday against Golden State but a Christmas Day return against New York was more likely.

"Obviously, I'm not in great condition after being pretty inactive for seven weeks. But that's just a harsh reality," Nash said.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby Finwë on Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:45 am

^^ Was just about to post that in the MDA thread.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby therealdeal on Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:55 am

Good news. Only meetings like that can save this relationship going forward.

It'll be interesting to see how things play out up in Golden State now.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby lakersyunowin on Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:49 am

i'm glad it was d'antoni who approached him and not the vice versa. hopefully, a good sign that they're both determined to find something that works.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby LTLakerFan on Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:06 am

Agree this is good. Reports are MDA invited Pau. The results from talking with a very intelligent and world class skilled basketbal player should be easy to determine right away. Unless Dan Tony is completely stubborn and really is that out of touch with the reality of what he has with this squad talent wise..... let's see once Nash is back what % of the time Pau is relegated to 3pt area and what % in post area. Subject to "Dan's" plan when Pau and Dwight are together and with how he works his rotations. Let's see. Here's MDA's chance to be smart about all of this. Nash and Kobe as I've said are certainly going to tell him what's needed if his offense is a joke and not working. Or it works but helps kill the defensive efficiency with so many shots jacked.
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Re: Pau Gasol Discussion: back starting tonight (12/18) - pg241

Postby 432J on Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:55 am

maybe this could mean dan tony would actually be willing to change around some parts of his stupid offense to better fit pau? instead of having him shoot 15-20 footers which is obviously not his style

more like a pipe dream right now but who knows
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