Pau Appreciation: UnBullievable, no S&T - Thx 4 the Memories

Would you re-sign Pau for ~7 million per?

Yes
53
38%
No
71
52%
Maybe (explain)
12
8%
 
Total votes : 136

Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby Rooscooter on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:28 am

dwighthowardsdad wrote:
Steve Kyler Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA 17 Apr
RT @blnguyen89: where do you see pau Gasol playing next season? ---> No sense of it, Lakes have shopped him and very few interested parties


Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA 17 Apr
RT @lakerholicz: Gasol has shown since getting healthy that he still is a world class player. ---> yep, thats owed $19 million #toughmoney


Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA 17 Apr

RT @lakerholicz: ---> if Gasol were making $5 to $10 million, you'd never move him. He's talked about because of the $ not his play.


Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA 17 Apr

RT @acekiker: --> Lakers have $99.8 million in salary... next year the tax on that number is $83.2mil, just the tax. in 2014 its $112.8mil


Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA 17 Apr
RT @concrusher: ---> The Lakers will always be a top spender, but the days of a $100 mil payroll are going away.


Something that is not in this accounting is the fact that the remaining Buss' will have to pay a massive amount of "Death Tax" for Dr. Buss' estate which includes the Lakers. That number could also top 100M easily....

The revenue from the team will not support that and the payroll and the NBA taxes over the next 18 months..... not even close.

The planning they are doing in house will most likely take this into account and they have to be looking at what type of team they can put on the court in 3 to 4 years out because that is what they will be living off of..... not anything Kobe related as that will be beyond his effective career.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby therealdeal on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:32 am

^ They'll still get residuals like jersey sales and that type of thing, but definitely their coffers are going to take a massive dump when Kobe retires. More specifically 2-3-4 years after he retires and the drama wears off.

They better start building Dwight Howard's stock up this summer as soon as he inks that contract.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby khmrP on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:53 am

I thought I heard during the weeks of his funneral that Dr. Buss had already set aside money to pay for that inheritance tax?
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby Rooscooter on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:58 am

khmrP wrote:I thought I heard during the weeks of his funneral that Dr. Buss had already set aside money to pay for that inheritance tax?


Any and all money he has is subject to both State and Federal inheritance tax.... so any money set aside would also be subject to that tax.

I'm sure he "planned" for the transfer by using trusts etc. but in the end about 1/4 to 1/3 of his entire net worth will be taxed at some point..... whether it's this year or as the assets are distributed from the trusts....
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby Chillbongo on Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:11 am

therealdeal wrote:We won't be the team that trades a guy away from his kids, Chill.

It won't happen. Nash came here, took less money, to be with his kids and in a situation to win. Obviously it's been a disaster, but we won't just trade him away. I can guarantee that.


$9M is less money for a 39 year old, not seldom injured point guard? I know this is a pg league but I always thought we overpaid with Nash. I completely agree with you, I didn't see us trading him as much as I see him retiring. We'll see how he pans out but a broken leg/hamstring/back issues at his age isn't a great sign.

If that were to happen and we move MWP and Duhon or some s***, we'd clear around $20M on our cap, and more on our taxes. Which would end up being about the same as moving Pau, without hindering our contract expiration set for 2014.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby therealdeal on Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:14 am

He was offered 12 million per year by the Raptors and the Knicks were willing to pay big money for him as well. He came here for a 3 million dollar discount. I know it sounds crazy at this point, but it's the truth.

His healthy is certainly a concern.

I think trading Pau is the only real answer here. Even with his massive contract, he's the only one on the team with relative value. You can trade away Duhon because he's only guaranteed something like 1 million. Trading away Metta though would be a huge hassle. No one wants him at nearly 8 million dollars because he doesn't provide much anymore.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby Chillbongo on Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:19 am

Yeah, I think Nash was overvalued but by market dictates we got him on the cheap.

We said the same thing about Kwame and although that's a terrible comparison because it was such a steal, all I'm saying is we've made s*** happen before. It's because we act like we don't want to trade Pau. That drives up his value and also shows other teams he's not available, which makes trading for our other guys more of an option. A team could want MWP because his $8M is gone after next year. I'm not sure how his contract works once traded, but he also has an ETO and could agree to exercise it. It's not completely out of the question.

Like I said, move Pau but get something great in return. I'm not opposed I just don't want any of the deals that have been realistically suggested thus far.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby lakersin4 on Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:22 am

khmrP wrote:if he's willing why not use the stretch provision on Pau, 2 yrs 9mill/yr...dips a bit into 2014 cap plan but then he'll expire same time as Nash for 2015 if Nash last that long.

I agree. If we can get Ron to opt out & take a small 2 year deal then stretch Pau, we're in much better shape. But don't we still have to re-sign Pau & then be paying him the 9m + his new contract in 14-15? I'm not clear on how the stretch provision works. Hopefully Nash wants to end his career in Canada.. Swapping him for Lowry would be great for this team, both on the court & financially.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby Chillbongo on Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:27 am

^If only the Grizzlies were still in Vancouver...believe he's from BC no way he goes to Toronto lol
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby lakersin4 on Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:32 am

Chillbongo wrote:^If only the Grizzlies were still in Vancouver...believe he's from BC no way he goes to Toronto lol

He was talking about going there before we got him.. You remember Tor & NY in a bidding war, I think Tor was offering near max money. He's the reason Landry Fields got paid lol. Nash in Canada = big $$$.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby therealdeal on Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:30 pm

Chillbongo wrote:Yeah, I think Nash was overvalued but by market dictates we got him on the cheap.

We said the same thing about Kwame and although that's a terrible comparison because it was such a steal, all I'm saying is we've made s*** happen before. It's because we act like we don't want to trade Pau. That drives up his value and also shows other teams he's not available, which makes trading for our other guys more of an option. A team could want MWP because his $8M is gone after next year. I'm not sure how his contract works once traded, but he also has an ETO and could agree to exercise it. It's not completely out of the question.

Like I said, move Pau but get something great in return. I'm not opposed I just don't want any of the deals that have been realistically suggested thus far.

Well realistically we're not going to get anything amazing for Pau. I think we can get either a) a future piece who is young and explosive or b) a bunch of young-ish guys to fill out the roster. I don't think we're going to be able to go and get a young, explosive guy in his prime unless that guy isn't a 1A type guy (Ellis).

Realistically we're not getting Love for Pau. And we're not jeopardizing our cap space in 2014 when there's a bunch of really great FAs available. Our best bet is to get someone good for Pau and some small pieces that could help us out next season but are easily movable.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby Chillbongo on Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:41 pm

therealdeal wrote:Well realistically we're not going to get anything amazing for Pau.

Real, lets let the NBA free market decide that? Pau's value is better now than it was in the last 2 years. Love is a stretch, but that would be a godsend. I'm not asking for a godsend.

therealdeal wrote:And we're not jeopardizing our cap space in 2014 when there's a bunch of really great FAs available.

How is that automatically true?

If we make a trade and take back $19M of salary for 2-3 guys....who could easily all have contracts along the lines of $18M/3 years. Combine that with Dwight's extension and with Clark and a couple of other guys on board, and we're looking at roughly $10M of cap space.

That's ASSUMING Nash is not a Laker. If Nash is we're back in luxury tax territory.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby therealdeal on Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:50 pm

Here's a trade: Pau for Ellis/Mbah a Moute/Udoh/Henson

(this is assuming that Ellis opted in)

The longest contract there is Henson (non guaranteed if we don't pick up his option) for about 2 million.

The second longest is Mbah a Moute, but his is backloaded at around 4 million dollars and he becomes a pretty easily moved piece as an expiring 4 million dollar contract.

Udoh expires next season.

Ellis would be extended for about 8-9 million for 4 years probably.

That means Ellis/Nash/Howard for about 38 million. Leaves us roughly 12+ to find help? Not bad. If Nash retires, and honestly I can't see him playing past 2014 maybe not even 2014 itself, then that leaves us at 29 million. We trade away Mbah a Moute and let Henson go and we're at 29 million which gives us roughly 21+ to mess around with? I like it. Give whatever we can to the best FAs out there until we're over the cap. If Kobe wants to come back, give him a chunk.

And that's just an example. There's more out there if we look for them.

I just don't think we hit a home run like Love.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby Chillbongo on Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:57 pm

Yeah, I'm not expecting Love by any means. But I really don't want Monta Ellis on the Lakers. If people think Kobe is bad, this guy is a disaster.

He can create for others sometimes but he truly is a volume scorer, has shot less than 45% the last 3 seasons. He's not the answer IMO nor is he the right guy to place with Dwight. I'd rather get someone even younger if we're going to go with a guard like Monta, bc at least there's potential for expanding his game. Monta isn't old but he'll be 28 by the start of next season. I'd much rather trade for a 3 than Monta.

I like the example, we could get something friendly.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby lakerfan2 on Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:03 pm

What do you think about Granger...

He's pretty much been replaced by a younger, cheaper, more athletic Paul George, and he's coming off an injury. David West will be a FA next season.

I, personally, would love to add Granger, if he can return to his pre-surgery form. Trade Metta for a backup PG and play Clark at PF.

Nash
Kobe
Granger
Clark
Howard
#OURHOUSE
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby slimjim on Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:08 pm

I prefer one last hurrah with Pau and using 30+ mil in cap-space in 14/15.

Why keep Pau? low risk, high reward.

High reward: All star calibur player when healthy, amazing chemistry with kobe, has championship experience, found a time machine and is playing like its 2009 at the moment.

Low risk: Pau flops or is injured? He expires at the end of the season anyway. I also believe we'll get MUCH better talent from free agency as opposed to trading pau for a few solid players. (No way we get equal value)

Nash + howard + 25 mil to fill out the roster is really intriguing (In my pipe dreams, we sign LBJ)

Now, if we can get that hail mary Pau/Love swap? I'm all for it. but I wouldn't trade pau for anything less than a running mate to pair with dwight for 6+ years.

The lakers have a good thing going salary wise after next season. I'm sure mitch had this in the works for a few years. I don't think he wants to jeopardize cap space for a player of an "ok" calibur player (Monta). He's looking for that homerun.

I am confident the lakers can pry a BIG name away from their team in 14/15. LA the city, LA the franchise, and Howard as their running mate.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby therealdeal on Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:20 pm

lakerfan2 wrote:What do you think about Granger...

He's pretty much been replaced by a younger, cheaper, more athletic Paul George, and he's coming off an injury. David West will be a FA next season.

I, personally, would love to add Granger, if he can return to his pre-surgery form. Trade Metta for a backup PG and play Clark at PF.

Nash
Kobe
Granger
Clark
Howard

Well Granger would be nice, but his knees are a VERY serious issue at this point. The dude had to sit out all season with complications coming every few months. I'd rather see him play a little to make sure he can still do some things on the court.

He was definitely high on my list at first, but with the way he's had to sit out the season... makes me nervous.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby therealdeal on Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:21 pm

slimjim wrote:I prefer one last hurrah with Pau and using 30+ mil in cap-space in 14/15.

Why keep Pau? low risk, high reward.

High reward: All star calibur player when healthy, amazing chemistry with kobe, has championship experience, found a time machine and is playing like its 2009 at the moment.

Low risk: Pau flops or is injured? He expires at the end of the season anyway. I also believe we'll get MUCH better talent from free agency as opposed to trading pau for a few solid players. (No way we get equal value)

Nash + howard + 25 mil to fill out the roster is really intriguing (In my pipe dreams, we sign LBJ)

Now, if we can get that hail mary Pau/Love swap? I'm all for it. but I wouldn't trade pau for anything less than a running mate to pair with dwight for 6+ years.

The lakers have a good thing going salary wise after next season. I'm sure mitch had this in the works for a few years. I don't think he wants to jeopardize cap space for a player of an "ok" calibur player (Monta). He's looking for that homerun.

I am confident the lakers can pry a BIG name away from their team in 14/15. LA the city, LA the franchise, and Howard as their running mate.

The problem is that Pau is a HIGH risk when it comes to the finances. At 20 million he costs LA roughly 45+ million in taxes next season. Alone.

He might need to be moved for that reason by itself. Not to mention, I have a feeling Mitch can hit a homerun this summer if Pau keeps playing this way. I don't know who, I don't know how, and I don't think it's Love, but I think he's got a plan.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby Chillbongo on Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:27 pm

slimjim wrote:Why keep Pau? low risk, high reward.

High reward: All star calibur player when healthy, amazing chemistry with kobe, has championship experience, found a time machine and is playing like its 2009 at the moment.

Low risk: Pau flops or is injured? He expires at the end of the season anyway. I also believe we'll get MUCH better talent from free agency as opposed to trading pau for a few solid players. (No way we get equal value)

I don't think he wants to jeopardize cap space for a player of an "ok" calibur player (Monta). He's looking for that homerun.


I do too. IMO there's no "rush" to make changes now that Kobe is injured. He was literally the only reason we would rush a deal for change. If I'm management it makes more sense to ride out our contract and get that cap space and go after someone who wants to be in LA.

Now if we get something great via trade because someone really wants Pau or wants that cap space, by all means do it. But Monta or Derrick Williams isn't our guy .

The best part, we can still keep Pau and make small moves that make us even better next year. A bench of Meeks/Hill/Clark/Jamison with a pg shot creator would do wonders for the bench.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby Chillbongo on Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:29 pm

Real you have a point....but if finances are the real issue moving Nash/MWP is just as feasible. Sure we don't "want" to be the team that does that. And sure Pau would give us the best return....but I'm sure Mitch is evaluating all options and I don't think he's even 50% assured that Pau is going to be moved. Not to mention a Kobe amnesty...obviously that's not going to happen but you catch my drift
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby therealdeal on Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:36 pm

Chillbongo wrote:Real you have a point....but if finances are the real issue moving Nash/MWP is just as feasible. Sure we don't "want" to be the team that does that. And sure Pau would give us the best return....but I'm sure Mitch is evaluating all options and I don't think he's even 50% assured that Pau is going to be moved. Not to mention a Kobe amnesty...obviously that's not going to happen but you catch my drift

I know all options are open, but what do you expect to get for Nash, Chill? At 9 million dollars a year the man can hardly play anymore. He can't stay healthy and even when he IS healthy he's not putting up 9 million dollar numbers. Metta is an expiring at least, but even so... 8 million dollars of useless player isn't going to net us the return we want.

The thing with expirings is that you use them to get overpaid players on long term contracts that other teams don't want. That's what WE don't want either... We want short term contracts AND a great player. There's few players that fit the mold that we need them to. That'll be the number one problem with moving Gasol.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby slimjim on Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:45 pm

therealdeal wrote:
slimjim wrote:I prefer one last hurrah with Pau and using 30+ mil in cap-space in 14/15.

Why keep Pau? low risk, high reward.

High reward: All star calibur player when healthy, amazing chemistry with kobe, has championship experience, found a time machine and is playing like its 2009 at the moment.

Low risk: Pau flops or is injured? He expires at the end of the season anyway. I also believe we'll get MUCH better talent from free agency as opposed to trading pau for a few solid players. (No way we get equal value)

Nash + howard + 25 mil to fill out the roster is really intriguing (In my pipe dreams, we sign LBJ)

Now, if we can get that hail mary Pau/Love swap? I'm all for it. but I wouldn't trade pau for anything less than a running mate to pair with dwight for 6+ years.

The lakers have a good thing going salary wise after next season. I'm sure mitch had this in the works for a few years. I don't think he wants to jeopardize cap space for a player of an "ok" calibur player (Monta). He's looking for that homerun.

I am confident the lakers can pry a BIG name away from their team in 14/15. LA the city, LA the franchise, and Howard as their running mate.

The problem is that Pau is a HIGH risk when it comes to the finances. At 20 million he costs LA roughly 45+ million in taxes next season. Alone.

He might need to be moved for that reason by itself. Not to mention, I have a feeling Mitch can hit a homerun this summer if Pau keeps playing this way. I don't know who, I don't know how, and I don't think it's Love, but I think he's got a plan.


I was thinking about the finances aspect of it as well... but whoever we trade for will count against the cap anyways.

Let's take your proposed package for example

Ellis/Mbah-a-Moute/Henson/Udoh

Monta: 11 mil
Mbah: 4.6 mil
Henson: 1.9 mil
Udoh: 4.4 mil

We would be trading Pau at 19.28 mil for 21.9 mil.

This would not help our cap situation at all. In fact, it makes us much worse in the 14/15 season... mbah, henson, and udoh will eat up 10mil of the cap alone. this is not counting the resigning of Monta.

We have the perfect piece in pau gasol for our future plan while trying to make one last run for kobe. A expiring K who can still perform at a championship calibur level when healthy. the choice is obvious for me


I see the lakers trading gasol for 2 reasons only.

1) Sure fire hail mary stud trade (Kevin Love)
2) we take back the least amount of salary possible (also expiring). A 100% financial move. (I'm no salary cap/trade expert. What is the least amount of money the lakers have to take back in trading a 19.28 million contract?)
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby Chillbongo on Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:46 pm

Exactly, which is why I say we won't move him. It makes too much sense for the FO to hold off unless something great comes our way. Like I said, other than finances, there's no rush to make these changes right now, given Kobe's injury.

Even if we just moved MWP for a backup pg and another piece that would do us some good.

If you ask me either Blake or Nash is going to be moved this summer with or without a Pau trade. They make $13M between the two of them....way too much for getting like 50/82 games from both of them.

I love what Blake is doing and would love to have him as our backup PG....but we can't have Nash too. I love the dude but he's not right for us :man6:

It's like the GF that's perfect in every way except she stops putting out. It's like damn, you're f******* cool but i need my :man13:
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby khmrP on Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:51 pm

slimjim wrote:I see the lakers trading gasol for 2 reasons only.

1) Sure fire hail mary stud trade (Kevin Love)
2) we take back the least amount of salary possible (also expiring). A 100% financial move. (I'm no salary cap/trade expert. What is the least amount of money the lakers have to take back in trading a 19.28 million contract?)


we can take back nothing if a team with cap is willing to absorb all of Pau contract.....and w/o trading Pau you only have room to add one decent role player with that mini MLE or split that and get more "Jodie Meeks" type players. Also I certainly not in the group who thinks we'll get anything of value for MWP and seeing suggestion to trade Blake, if we trade him then we're also gona have to look for another backup PG knowing Nash is all but broken down now. So Keep Pau and get marginally better with 1 or 2 addition, this team is missing MULTIPLE pieces and theres no way around that with the options we have if we keep Pau.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Triple-Double...Doubled (346)

Postby therealdeal on Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:53 pm

slim, the point is that those salaries are spread out and manageable. At least, that's how I would see it as Mitch Kupchak. I can trade a 2 million dollar contract pretty easily. I can move a 4 million dollar expiring if I need to.

And Udoh comes off the books that summer.

That trade gives us a better chance at being successful too next season and doesn't change much of the bottom line when the time comes in 2014.

But I see what you're saying. And when Kobe went down, I figured Pau's job might have JUST been saved. Now that Kobe is gone we're probably going to go to the Big Man idea for a year anyway and just let things fall where they may. I have a feeling that means making the 5-6th seed next season and failing in the 1st or 2nd round, but that might be the plan.

Especially since we then can't afford a way to get a top-notch perimeter player this summer.
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