PAYTON IN, FISHER OUT?OF L.A?

PAYTON IN, FISHER OUT?OF L.A?

Postby STC on Wed Jul 09, 2003 5:36 pm

I love what D Fish brings to the table, unfortunately he's had a hard time matching up with some of elite point guards in the league. He will be in a perfect position coming off the bench to give us a spark. He wont be just getting the minute that G P sits though, he could come in as the point with GP playing the 2 and Kobe playing at the 3 spot.
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Postby BDG on Wed Jul 09, 2003 5:37 pm

that's not dumb at all. we need a solid big man to back up shaq right now. we're deep in our backcourt, so we can afford to lose a guy there for a big guy down low.
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Slava laughed at the suggestion his skills might be affected by the down time. "Are you kidding?" he said. "Basketball is like ball. It's all a circle."

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Postby Fisher Fan on Wed Jul 09, 2003 5:50 pm

If u are u going to get rid of someone for a big man leave it be Slava, any waywe will end up signing S. Williams.

swolswol, why are u so stuck :disagree: on Swift he sux, and I don't think u know anything, I heard that u like the QUEENS(kings).
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Huh?

Postby LakersFan2003 on Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:59 pm

BryantDunkGiant wrote:that's not dumb at all. we need a solid big man to back up shaq right now. we're deep in our backcourt, so we can afford to lose a guy there for a big guy down low.


Since when do we need a solid big man to back up Shaq? We haven't had a true back-up center for the past 4 years and what do we have to show for it? 3 NBA Championship rings. And by the way, since when is Stromile Swift an adequate back up center? He's 6-9 225lbs ... doesn't sound like a solid big man to me. And solid big men, should get more than 5 rebounds/game... lol.

A solid back up center is not at the top of the list right now. If Shaq can play 30-35 min/game, which he is very capable of doing, Slava can hold his own at the C position (for the $1million he makes; he's worth it when you compare it to the $3.7million Tracy Murray made last year). This is of course, assuming we sign Karl and Gary. What we do need is a pure shooter ... like a Jon Barry or an Eric Piatkowski. With Shaq and Karl banging in the middle, we need someone reliable to knock down the open shot from the perimeter.

A solid backup center would be nice, but there are a lot of other improvements we could make that would be far better for the Lakers organization.
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Postby SWOL on Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:32 pm

swift has game and he is ATHLETIC!!!!!!!!he can RUN, JUMP AND BLOCK SHOTS.....even if we get Malone he is a great player but he does not add those kind of things to our club......besides Pargo is developing rapidly, and there will not be a whole hell of a lot of PT behind KB & GP........dont live in the past man......dont forget who our main comp is......that is Sac. not *San Antonio.......If you think for 1 min they would have beaten a heathly Sac you are mistaken.....Malone doesnt fair that well against C Webb......we need BIG ATHLETES
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Postby SWOL on Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:34 pm

OH YEAH....REGISTER BEFORE YOU CALL ANYONE OUT :nono5:
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Huh?

Postby LakersFan2003 on Wed Jul 09, 2003 9:03 pm

swolswol wrote:swift has game and he is ATHLETIC!!!!!!!!he can RUN, JUMP AND BLOCK SHOTS.....even if we get Malone he is a great player but he does not add those kind of things to our club......besides Pargo is developing rapidly, and there will not be a whole hell of a lot of PT behind KB & GP........dont live in the past man......dont forget who our main comp is......that is Sac. not *San Antonio.......If you think for 1 min they would have beaten a heathly Sac you are mistaken.....Malone doesnt fair that well against C Webb......we need BIG ATHLETES


I'm going to respond to each one of your comments. First, "Swift has game and he is athletic". Most professional basketball players have game and are athletic. We have Shaq don't forget (3.0 blks/game last season and a career 3.0 blks/game) so, we don't really need more shotblockers. What is Swift's 1.39 blks/game going to bring to us that Shaq doesn't already bring? We need a strong, veteran power forward that can quickly pick up the triangle (Swift, 3 year player will take a longer time to learn the triangle: see Walker, Samaki...lol). For $1.5 million dollar, I can't imagine anyone who knows anything about basketball, who would take 3-year pro Stromile Swift over 2-time NBA MVP, 14-time All Star, 51% CAREER FG% (Swift did 48% last year in his best year lol), 10 rebounds/game, and almost 2 steals/game. And you can't measure the experience Malone brings to the table. He can really help in the development of Brian Cook who is doing well in the Summer League. Go compare their stats, factor in experience, and really think about who might be the better deal at $1.5 million (the same amount of money we paid Samaki by the way... lol)

As far as playing time for Pargo behind Kobe and Payton ... not an issue. The Lakers management wants to win a championship. They are not re-building and trying to develop players. WHen you're trying to rebuild a team and develop players, then yes, playing time is an issue. When you want to win a championship, you focus on other things. If Pargo has a problem with playing time, he can request a trade and we can pick up another rookie ... but he's doing well ... and a championship under his belt, I doubt he'd mind that at the expense of playing time. lol You can't have both young man...and by the way, Kobe's playing time doesn't really affect Pargo's playing time. To have consistent and constant production from the point ... is something we've never ever had. We can do this with Payton starting and DFish to back him up. DFish knows the triangle.

Why 3-year pro Stromile Swift over 2-time NBA MVP, 14-time All Star, 51% CAREER FG% (Swift did 48% last year in his best year lol), 10 rebounds/game, and almost 2 steals/game. And you can't measure the experience Malone brings to the table. He can really help in the development of Brian Cook who is doing well in the Summer League. Go compare their stats, factor in experience, and really think about who might be the better deal at $1.5 million (the same amount of money we paid Samaki by the way... lol)

As far as playing time for Pargo behind Kobe and Payton ... not an issue. The Lakers management wants to win a championship. They are not re-building and trying to develop players. WHen you're trying to rebuild a team and develop players, then yes, playing time is an issue. When you want to win a championship, you focus on other things. If Pargo has a problem with playing time, he can request a trade and we can pick up another rookie ... but he's doing well ... and a championship under his belt, I doubt he'd mind that at the expense of playing time. lol You can't have both young man...and by the way, Kobe's playing time doesn't really affect Pargo's playing time. To have consistent and constant production from the point ... is something we've never ever had. We can do this with Payton starting and DFish to back him up. DFish knows the triangle.

Why is our main competitor Sacramento? Because we had an exciting 7-game series with them last year which we won? We split the season series with them this past year, and they've never eliminated us from the playoffs (they've only won 3 of the past 11 playoff games against us). Meanwhile, San Antonio won the championship 4 years ago, swept us in the season series, and eliminated us from the playoffs. On top of all that, they got the MVP of the league, Coach of the Year, and are probably going to sign Jason Kidd. How is Sac our main competitor? I just don't get it... is it because they have crazy cow bells or do you have a real logical reason for this thinking?

We don't need big athletes. We need outside shooting and a good PF to help out with Shaq. We also lack transition defense. These are our primary weaknesses.

Finally, why do I have to register to "call you out?" Just submit comments that make sense, explain your reasoning (use numbers, history, not "he can run and jump" type comments) and we can have a good debate on this.
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Postby la21834 on Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:14 pm

fisher fan register before you start talking trash.
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Postby BDG on Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:26 pm

LakersFan2003,

Did you consider the possibility of Shaq getting injured? He's not the most durable player we have.

Swift has been playing Center for years now and we need to keep a 2nd option open if Shaq goes down. He provides a great defensive presence for us in the paint. If I'm not mistaken, Ben Wallace is 6'9" and he plays Center and gets Defensive Player of the Year. Height isn't as valuable as technique.
Image
Slava laughed at the suggestion his skills might be affected by the down time. "Are you kidding?" he said. "Basketball is like ball. It's all a circle."

BEST VIDEO EVER ... AND AND THE SECOND BEST.
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Postby SWOL on Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:39 pm

first off if you read the post guy :freak2: .....i am already making the asumption that malone is coming to LA......it is not an argument of Malone VS Swift, it is an argument (if you read) of Fisher Vs Swift.....Karl Malone will turn 40 before the season starts, we should only be playing him 30 min a game MAX, we should save him for the playoffs, Shaq as you pointed out will play 35 min a game......this leaves (13 + 18 =) 31 min a games where we need a tall athletic big man.....we have 2 young athletic back court players who's roles should expand next season, Pippen could be had at the vets min or Jon Barry or Piakowski....front court needs some depth

IF YOU TALK GARBAGE SHOW YOUR FACE
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What?

Postby LakersFan2003 on Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:09 pm

swolswol wrote:first off if you read the post guy :freak2: .....i am already making the asumption that malone is coming to LA......it is not an argument of Malone VS Swift, it is an argument (if you read) of Fisher Vs Swift.....Karl Malone will turn 40 before the season starts, we should only be playing him 30 min a game MAX, we should save him for the playoffs, Shaq as you pointed out will play 35 min a game......this leaves (13 + 18 =) 31 min a games where we need a tall athletic big man.....we have 2 young athletic back court players who's roles should expand next season, Pippen could be had at the vets min or Jon Barry or Piakowski....front court needs some depth

IF YOU TALK GARBAGE SHOW YOUR FACE


We finally have depth at the point and you want to give that up? Almost every successful team last season (and especially in the Western Conference) has depth at the point. Dallas has Nash and Van Exel. Sac has Bibby and Bobby Jackson (6th man of the year), Spurs have Parker and Speedy Claxton. We've had Derek Fisher (not your prototypical point guard) and Pargo. Now we have the firepower at the point and you want to get rid of that for a backup center? A backup center will do us no good if Payton gets injured and we have Pargo running the entire Lakers triangle offense on his own. He's far too young and inexperienced.

Plus, this would really affect Phil's idea of having a two point guard offense similar to the one employed by Milwaukee and Dallas. This would have Derek and Gary playing the 1 and 2.... Kobe playing small forward, Malone at the 4 and the big fella at center. This would be great against faster teams with quick guards. I think this is the main reason Fisher is still here.

How Swift fits in ... I don't know. lol
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Postby Vasashi17 on Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:10 pm

Even though I agree with Swol that we need to think about the future and down the road by getting an impact center than just a decent back-up to Shaq, I have to agree with lakerfan in dealing with Fish. He was never made to be a starter. However, he will make an awesome back-up to Payton. He is scrappy and even though he lagged off on defense he is still very aggressive. He had one of the best three point shooting percentages in the playoffs last year (and i mean in the top three). That is why I would rather trade away (if we need to trade that is) Slava over Fisher. Giving Shaq a decent back-up right now, techniquically will be good for us down the road. Shaq is coming baq in shape next year and with a decent amount of time on the bench, he can save himself not only to be more dominant in the playoffs but also in the years to come. It is almost a guarantee that the Lakers will offer Shaq an extension, making him without a doubt, a part our future. If we conserve Shaq's energy now and prevent him from breaking down or risking more injuries, he will be only that much more better as the years go by. But he first needs to not always shoulder the load and needs a decent back-up to cut his time. We don't need an impact center at the moment, because once Shaq sits, we have the likes of Malone, Payton, and don't forget Kobe to take over offensively. On the defensive side is where the concern will be, because who can be more intimidating then Shaq in the middle. So we just have to get a tall defensive center. We have to make sure that after we land Malone, we address the center position immediately. Stromile Swift would be good, but definitely not at the expense of a trade involving Fish. We can just fork over a million to someone like Scott Williams who is big and tall and can play a respectful defensive game. He also knows the triangle and phils defensive schemes from his chi-town days. Hands down he is the perfect pick up for a one year one million contract. If he proves himself this year, we can extend a very thrift contract to him...if he is a bust, then we bust him loose and can look for a more impact center next summer with our MLE. Bottom line, bring in Scott Williams and convince Rob to also sign for the million...and we are closed for the summer. We will also be closing the doors to many teams championship dreams.
Last edited by Vasashi17 on Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby lakers frizzo on Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:14 pm

lakers fan 2003 please have respect for our users on this forum. we all have great aspirations for the up and coming champs and the fact remains that we DO need a backup center if we want this team to keep shaq(who remember went through all the years of the hack a shaq) from retiring early and making us compete instead of dominating!!!! me and swolswol had our run in early also but i found out that the man wants us to win as much as anybody(except mabye me of course) so i agree if your going to talk trash do it logged in and i do belive you have some very valid points that i pointed out earlier that fisher shouldnt ever be traded but should always come off the bench(ala an old laker great van exel coming off the bench with dallas and scoring 30 pts a game) we all have ideas about how to win and those ideas should all be heard and respected because when i first posted about both malone and payton coming to the lakers i was just slammed into the ground too with comments about how unreal this was and look at what has transpired since then? and i still belive we should go after pippen(veteran contract) and jon barry(lle x laker x triangle guy) and when shaq comes off the bench we should go smaller and make the other team go big and roast them at the 3 point line with pip piat and barry and dont forget kobe!!!!!


cant we all just get along??????

one love shared by all: LAKER LOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
is shaq satisfied with three titles and continuing to blow up to 400 lbs or will he get the other hunger back and get down to 320 and win three more?? GO LAKERS 2004-06 CHAMPS!!!
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Postby SWOL on Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:40 pm

we can try man......thou sometimes we'll all but heads :bang: but its cool the point i was tryin to make is we need depth in the front court...right now our depth is Slava, Cook and Walton.......Im far more comfortable with Fox, Rush and Pargo and poss (piak, barry or Pip).......Western Conf is loaded up front and we could use the size and athletisim
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Postby Laker brain on Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:39 am

Fisher is gonna stay..period.
Todays minimum is yesterdays maximum!
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Postby PlayaHateUs on Thu Jul 10, 2003 2:52 am

I agree Laker brain. Fish stays. :jam2:
by keeping Fish we have a very deep backcourt. i can't wait for the season to start! WOOOOO! :sing: It's over for the rest of the league.
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Postby Fisher Fan on Thu Jul 10, 2003 8:44 am

Up urs swolswol & la21834 u should live in Sac. so u can cheer on the Queens.


LakersFan2003 u rule!
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Postby la21834 on Thu Jul 10, 2003 10:43 am

get a life.You have know Idea what you are talking about.You are probly
some 13-14 yr old.

Only a child would use the same line over and over.
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Postby Fisher Fan on Thu Jul 10, 2003 10:58 am

guess again :man7:
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Postby la21834 on Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:15 pm

I am sorry 12
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Postby la21834 on Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:43 pm

You know what fisher fan.
I am done talking trash with you.You are bringing me down to your level.
I dont know why we are even talking crap to each other we are both Laker fans.So just let it be
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Postby SWOL on Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:10 pm

AGREE.......IM DONE TRYING TO REASON WITH A CHILD.......WHY ARE SO HEATED ABOUT D FISH?????????IS THAT YOU DERRICK???????WE DIDNT MEAN TO HURT YOUR FEELINGS BUDDY ITS JUST TIME MAN!!!!!!!!!YOU HAVE BECOME A LIABILITY ON DEFENSE.......SORRY DERRICK
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Postby Fisher Fan on Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:28 pm

Ok Im sorry
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Postby la21834 on Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:33 pm

I love Fish but I think we need to worry about or front court our back court is deep.
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Postby zetaw00d on Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:44 pm

la21834 wrote:I love Fish but I think we need to worry about or front court our back court is deep.


Deep??? Other then Payton and Kobe (GP after July 16) Lakers have Fisher, Pargo and Rush. You call that deep!!! You wont need a back up for Shaq if Malone signs with the lakers and if Shaq is in shape!!! With Kobe, GP, Malone and Shaq all starting you dont need a bench!! The Lakers should be winning by 15 every game!!! I have some friends that are not Laker fans and all they keep saying is "its not fair!" :man10:


Queens :shootc: :shootb: Spurms
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