Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby The Rock on Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:36 am

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2012/06/phil-jackson-talks-to-hbo-about-jim-buss-andrew-bynum-and-the-lakers/1#.T-CbzbUV2Tl

"You know, Jim is a guy that, you know, saw Andrew as a kid-- and thought Bynum was gonna be a great pick for our team. But in the process, I think you know, he's wanted Andrew to have a bigger and bigger role. And I think he's hired his coach to have Andrew have a bigger and bigger role. And that kinda disjointed the symmetry of what the Lakers were really about this last year. You know, Andrew is All-Star center. He was-- did a wonderful job. But, you know, it-- what happened was, it took Pau out of his game. And it took the team away from some of their game. So they changed the style dramatically."



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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:50 am

Maybe...... but they went one game further..... without Odom than Phil did with him playing a smaller role. New scheme, worse bench to boot....

Seems like he's trying to excuse Pau's play more than say Bynum's getting the ball is a problem.

The real problem was a combination of poor balance/mix of players and how the team played down the stretch of close games....
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby bystander on Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:01 am

Rooscooter wrote:Maybe...... but they went one game further..... without Odom than Phil did with him playing a smaller role. New scheme, worse bench to boot....

Seems like he's trying to excuse Pau's play more than say Bynum's getting the ball is a problem.

The real problem was a combination of poor balance/mix of players and how the team played down the stretch of close games....


More than anything, he's taking shots at Jim, that was this is all about.
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:05 am

Phil is right.

Drew's offense and pushing his offense got Pau his touches outside. With Drew unable to pass out of the double, effectively repost or hit that 10-12 footer it hurt Pau (who isn't aggressive as needed). Some could blame the coach, which he deserves some, but I think it was trying to force Drew in the paint that had a big hand in our problems. There was much more to add to that too but this topic is about just that.
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby TIME on Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:50 am

Phil has apparently never seen the secret DVDs.
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:01 am

puffyusaf#2 wrote:Phil is right.

Drew's offense and pushing his offense got Pau his touches outside. With Drew unable to pass out of the double, effectively repost or hit that 10-12 footer it hurt Pau (who isn't aggressive as needed). Some could blame the coach, which he deserves some, but I think it was trying to force Drew in the paint that had a big hand in our problems. There was much more to add to that too but this topic is about just that.


New system.... fewer good players..... no time to really install the system and a compressed schedule.... yet we still went one game further than Phil's team... The issue wasn't Bynum's play or "forcing" him in the post(he only got 2.5 more shots than his previous career high)..... where's he supposed to play..... at the 3 point line.... :man12:

The problems we had were primarily the final 6 minutes of games where we had leads and how we closed them.... Pau, Andrew and Kobe have played successfully together for 3 1/2 quarters in these situations but at the end we went away from that and that's where we got in trouble....

Pau had his chances to play "his" game when Andrew was out of the game and he still refused to assert himself..... Just because Andrew took his chance and had success shouldn't be the focus of what stopped us from going further.....

Andrew had his issues this year..... but why is he the focus of why we didn't win a championship this year when he is the one player that raised his game the most..... Pau's the veteran and the one that has the versatility to play in a number of positions yet he gets excuse after excuse.....
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby Helljumper on Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:07 am

Obviously, increasing Bynum's role diminished what Pau could do on the court. But if the tables were turned and we used Pau more instead of Drew ... that would've just hurt Drew's game in a similar manner. I don't buy the implication that it hurt the team. Whether it was Pau as the second option or Drew, this team didn't have a good enough surrounding cast to compete at an elite level.
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby Doc Brown on Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:10 am

Thank God we decided to roll with Andrew getting post touches instead of Pau. It seemed as if every time Pau go the ball in the post, it was either

1.) Turn and face jab series only to pass it out and give someone the hand grenade with 5 seconds left on the clock.

2.) As soon as he got it, pass right back out

3.) Fadeaway shots on smaller opponents.
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby Lakeshow24 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:23 am

I agree with Phil, actually.
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby Weezy on Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:55 am

I agree that Drew's larger role lessened Pau's, but what's his excuse for Pau in last year's playoffs? Yeah it lessened his role, but it didn't mean he could disappear off the face of the earth.
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby Finwë on Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:09 am

Doc Brown wrote:Thank God we decided to roll with Andrew getting post touches instead of Pau. It seemed as if every time Pau go the ball in the post, it was either

1.) Turn and face jab series only to pass it out and give someone the hand grenade with 5 seconds left on the clock.

2.) As soon as he got it, pass right back out

3.) Fadeaway shots on smaller opponents.

Exactly. The whole "Pau needs more touches in the post" argument as a way to defend his poor performances crumbles when we see what actually happens when he gets the ball in the post.
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:10 am

Weezy wrote:I agree that Drew's larger role lessened Pau's, but what's his excuse for Pau in last year's playoffs? Yeah it lessened his role, but it didn't mean he could disappear off the face of the earth.


One of Phil's eccentricities is his criticism of his successors and his former employers.... he's a great coach of talent but when he's done he always seems to snipe a little. Maybe he's trying to create a power play again and come back for a third time..... who knows..... he just blew off the one position I though he'd want in NY.

He liked Pau and I think he resented the pressure from above to play Andrew more. Wasn't he pressing for Sean May in that draft?

This team had/has more issues than Pau/Bynum's role.... it could have been reversed and we still wouldn't have gone anywhere..... Lack of depth and lack of overall talent beyond the top 3 killed us...
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby The Rock on Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:11 pm

https://twitter.com/#!/lazenby


Phil basically challenges Jim Buss to win a title if he can. Phil sits back with his 11 titles+implies Jim's love of stats is faulty, silly

Phil Jackson implies Jim Buss and his new coach will be wearing their dunce caps for a long time.

So this will be interesting for the Lakers. They move forward under the weight of what essentially is a tongue in cheek taunt from Phil.

At some point, Phil's going to identify the different ways Jim and Jerry Buss pushed him out. He just turned up the heat under Jim's buns.

Phil Jackson also said basically that the Lakers new philosophy is this: Jim Buss loves Andrew, will do anything to advance Andrew.
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby khmrP on Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:15 pm

I look at Bynum offense like how people label Zbo/Aj Jeff Off, a BLACK hole, once it goes in there it aint coming back but in Bynum case, just double him and he'll pass it but not really make it easier for anybody to get their shot of though.
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby The Rock on Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:24 pm

khmrP wrote:I look at Bynum offense like how people label Zbo/Aj Jeff Off, a BLACK hole, once it goes in there it aint coming back but in Bynum case, just double him and he'll pass it but not really make it easier for anybody to get their shot of though.


Jefferson has been much better last year and a half since he came to Utah. Lots of player and ball movement and he's been a willing passer. His defense has been wack but his offensive game has been rock solid
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby Ludachris on Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:29 pm

As much criticism as Pau has received, much of it deserved for his last two playoff runs, I think he's still been a better compliment to Kobe the last few years than Bynum and I think Phil knows that. For as much potential as Bynum has and as much as he's improved, I still don't know that he's the best guy to build around, and making him the centerpiece of the offense this year probably did disrupt the flow based on the personell we had. Phil knows what he sees. I can agree with his analysis on that.

Though we got one game further with Brown, we lost games against OKC that Phil's teams usually won, usually.
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby karacha on Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:56 pm

I agree with him, actually.
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby Jellincon on Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:59 pm

Meh. Pau had his chances to do damage in the post when he was alone with the 2nd unit but he refused to be aggressive. :nono2:
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby Texas Lakers Fan on Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:12 pm

Love Phil, but he's wrong here. Bynum had nothing to do with Pau's decline. Pau has declined becaause he's lost the hunger and will to win. Even when Bynum goes out of the game Pau refuses to be aggressive.
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby lotus on Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:24 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
Weezy wrote:I agree that Drew's larger role lessened Pau's, but what's his excuse for Pau in last year's playoffs? Yeah it lessened his role, but it didn't mean he could disappear off the face of the earth.


Wasn't he pressing for Sean May in that draft?

Yes, Phil does have 11 championships.
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby lotus on Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:26 pm

The Rock wrote:https://twitter.com/#!/lazenby


Phil basically challenges Jim Buss to win a title if he can. Phil sits back with his 11 titles+implies Jim's love of stats is faulty, silly

Phil Jackson implies Jim Buss and his new coach will be wearing their dunce caps for a long time.

So this will be interesting for the Lakers. They move forward under the weight of what essentially is a tongue in cheek taunt from Phil.

At some point, Phil's going to identify the different ways Jim and Jerry Buss pushed him out. He just turned up the heat under Jim's buns.

Phil Jackson also said basically that the Lakers new philosophy is this: Jim Buss loves Andrew, will do anything to advance Andrew.

I agree. The Dark Ages might be upon us. Time will tell.
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby Weezy on Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:33 pm

That Lazenby stuff about Jim and his Bynum love still scares me every time I read it. I like Drew, but he's not carrying this franchise to anything as the main guy, Jim needs to wake up and see that, look to put some a real #1 guy around Drew for the future.
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby Texas Lakers Fan on Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:38 pm

Weezy wrote:That Lazenby stuff about Jim and his Bynum love still scares me every time I read it. I like Drew, but he's not carrying this franchise to anything as the main guy, Jim needs to wake up and see that, look to put some a real #1 guy around Drew for the future.

How do you know that? Can you see the future? Of course you can't. The Bynum hate is absurd. This past year was Bynum's 1st year that he ever got double teamed on a consistent basis. Of course he's gonna have trouble with them at first. Like McHale said once Bynum gets used to the double teams he'll be unstoppable. Bynum can definitely can be a franchise player. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise when he hasn't even been given a chance to proven whether he can be a franchise player or not.

Also the Buss hate is absurd. Last time I checked he landed Chris Paul before being screwed over by the NBA. People get on him for not trading Drew even though it was clearly the right decision. He refused to trade Drew for Melo an overrated one dimensional player who has yet to make in past the 1st round since leaving Denver. He refused to trade Drew for JO who is now all but done. Didn't trade Drew for Bosh which was a great move because it would've made us the softest team in the game. Refused to trade him for KG and it was a good move because KG was clearly past his prime. Same thing with Kidd. Didn't trade him for Dwight which obviously was a great move because Howard doesn't wanna play here and is coming off a bad back injury.
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby Weezy on Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:09 pm

How is it 'hate' for me to say I'm scared of the future with Jim in charge? I didn't say get Jim off the team, I hate him, he sucks, I just said I'm worried, that's just my personal feeling on the matter. Also, how is it 'hate' to not believe Bynum is a franchise carrying player, but is a 2nd option? How is that in any way a diss on Bynum? This is the Lakers, it takes a special player to carry this franchise, it can't just be a really good player, it has to be a great player. Bynum is really good, but I don't see greatness, sure he COULD be a franchise player, but IMO that franchise wouldn't be winning titles with him being that.

This is going to be his 8th year in the league already and he is still not showing franchise player consistency, he disappeared in the 2nd half of the Thunder series, became pretty much a non factor in the end. A franchise player is Kobe, who even when he was 21 became a second option and a player that could be relied on in the clutch, even when he was that 2nd option for most of the time during those 3 title runs, you knew he was a franchise player when it was his time to take over. I can't say I KNOW that about Bynum, just can't, that's not hate, it's me being realistic. I think what's more ridiculous than saying Bynum can't be a franchise player is saying he CAN with no real evidence to back it up. I at least have evidence of him folding multiple times in big games, what evidence do you have of him carrying the team when he was desperately needed, in the playoffs especially? Oh, and again, it's very hard for me to see you as objective in this discussion with that username.
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Re: Phil implies Bynum's growing offensive role hurt the Lakers

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:34 pm

Weezy wrote:That Lazenby stuff about Jim and his Bynum love still scares me every time I read it. I like Drew, but he's not carrying this franchise to anything as the main guy, Jim needs to wake up and see that, look to put some a real #1 guy around Drew for the future.


No center is carrying a team in the current NBA.... the rules/defenses are still in Shaq mode after he dominated 10 years ago.....

I agree that Bynum isn't going to "carry" the team in the next 5 to 8 years..... but who can we get that will...... realistically?... I love D-Will but he can't carry a team..... Howard can't either.... who else has even been rumored?.... That's where all of the "Trade Bynum" talk leaves me.... he's probably as good as we can get in the interim until we draft the next superstar or suck really bad for a year or two and fall way below the cap at just the right time when a superstar becomes available..... again.... seems like a really long shot.

What you need in the game today is a team that's got 3 or 4 somewhat equal weapons.... not the one superstar and the supporting cast that can be afforded under the new CBA.... The days of a 2 or 3 superstar team are over I'm afraid.... even in LA...
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