Points: Kobe 4th All-Time; passes Wilt / MJ next

fitting that hell pass moses against the hawks since he played there

^ Its even crazier when you think that 5 of the top 6 players on the scoring list, played for the Lakers. WOW!!! If Shaq had learned to shoot his free throws, and he conditioned his body the way that Kobe does his, Kareem's all-time scoring title would have been absolute toast.

Amazing to see Kobe just leapfrogging these all time record holders.

LAKEROC wrote:^ Its even crazier when you think that 5 of the top 6 players on the scoring list, played for the Lakers. WOW!!! If Shaq had learned to shoot his free throws, and he conditioned his body the way that Kobe does his, Kareem's all-time scoring title would have been absolute toast.

Shaq did leave a ton of points at the line, but he's also old already, has a huge frame, and I can't imagine him having gotten a few hundred more games out of that body.

trodgers wrote:Shaq did leave a ton of points at the line, but he's also old already, has a huge frame, and I can't imagine him having gotten a few hundred more games out of that body.

Shaq made 5935 of 11252 FTs. 52% for his career. If he was at 75%, which is pretty decent for a big man, he would've scored 2504 more points, leaving him in 5th place, but delaying Kobe's rise by about another season.

If this was Lebron, you will be damn sure abc/espn will have a countdown for every person he passes. Like, a Lebron-o-meter on the bottom with a cutout of his head and a tally of his points.

lakerfan2 wrote:If this was Lebron, you will be damn sure abc/espn will have a countdown for every person he passes. Like, a Lebron-o-meter on the bottom with a cutout of his head and a tally of his points.

^^ No freakin' doubt, lakerfan2. QFT. Just look at the stupid CHEAT Index!

RE: LAKEROC's Shaq discussion, no way would he have threatened KAJ's record. The Cap kept himself in perfect condition through yoga and stretching and also had the perfect basketball frame. Shaq was always a football player size and frame with B-ball height. He just was not built to last. Built to dominate? Yes. But not built for the long haul. Remember, too, that Chamberlain was horrid from the FT line as well. He actually could've played a lot longer than his short 13 year career. He stayed in great condition for years and years playing beach volley ball. He's the one that could've obliterated KAJ's record had he stuck around longer.

CaCHooKa Man wrote:fitting that hell pass moses against the hawks since he played there

Moses played just about everywhere. Philly was stupid for trading him for Jeff Ruland and after that trade, he was a journeyman. Really sad, because I felt he deserved better.

John3:16 wrote:

CaCHooKa Man wrote:fitting that hell pass moses against the hawks since he played there

Moses played just about everywhere. Philly was stupid for trading him for Jeff Ruland and after that trade, he was a journeyman. Really sad, because I felt he deserved better.

^^ Good points John. I didn't really follow Moses much but he always impressed me. Good history lesson there for me. Do you think it's fair to say that Moses is the most underrated of all the great centers? It certainly seems that way to me. Wilt of course is legendary, Russell is acknowledged for his D and his rings, KAJ for his consistency and longevity and overall play, Hakeem for the some of the best footwork in big man history and his cat-like defensive prowess, Shaq for his pure strength size and domination. But Moses just seems to get overlooked - perhaps because of the ABA and his journeyman status in the NBA? NBA/ABA combined all time scoring he actually ranks 6th with 1000 more points than Shaq.

Lakerjones wrote:Do you think it's fair to say that Moses is the most underrated of all the great centers? It certainly seems that way to me. Wilt of course is legendary, Russell is acknowledged for his D and his rings, KAJ for his consistency and longevity and overall play, Hakeem for the some of the best footwork in big man history and his cat-like defensive prowess, Shaq for his pure strength size and domination. But Moses just seems to get overlooked - perhaps because of the ABA and his journeyman status in the NBA? NBA/ABA combined all time scoring he actually ranks 6th with 1000 more points than Shaq.

He was an absolute beast in 83. He literally put that Philly team on his back and carried them to the title. They had lost to us in 80 and 82, but traded both their big men (Calwell Jones and Darryl Dawkins) to make room for Moses. 67 - 15 regular season and one off from the infamous "fo-fo-fo". Swept our beloved Lakers. We had some injuries (Worthy), but it wasn't gonna matter. They were winning the title that year and no one was gonna stop them. Moses, Bobby Jones, Dr J, Mo Cheeks, and the always underrated / almost forgotten Andrew Toney (who could shoot from anywhere on the court). They were deep, motivated, and destined.

Throw that in with his incredible stats and 3 MVPs..... yeah, he's very underrated. Philly had him, Dr J, and Barkley AND...... AND the #1 pick in the draft. The owner traded Moses for Ruland and then traded the #1 pick for Roy Hinson. WHO?!?!?!?! That #1 pick could've been used on Brad Daugherty or Len Bias. Worst draft day trade, ever!

John3:16 wrote:

trodgers wrote:Shaq did leave a ton of points at the line, but he's also old already, has a huge frame, and I can't imagine him having gotten a few hundred more games out of that body.

Shaq made 5935 of 11252 FTs. 52% for his career. If he was at 75%, which is pretty decent for a big man, he would've scored 2504 more points, leaving him in 5th place, but delaying Kobe's rise by about another season.

I agree to an extent. One thing though is Shaq also got alot of those FTs solely based on him being a poor FT shooter and coaches being willing to play the percentages. I think his FTA total would be lower if he was a better FT shooter. To be fair though, teams would be more cautious about fouling him and he'd have higher percentage shots. It all comes back to how much better off Shaq would be if he could knock them down at a higher clip though.


OT a bit, but I just remembered when Shaq was with the Suns and had been complaining about the Spurs using the Hack-a-Shaq when they met in the 08 playoffs. So the next season they played on opening night, and Shaq gets intentionally fouled immediately , literally 3 seconds or so after the opening tipoff.

Everyone's all confused as to what just happened, and the camera switches to show Pop on the bench looking at Shaq with two thumbs up and a giant grin on his face. Everyone cracked up, even Shaq. Absolutely a classic moment.

Tobias Funke wrote:

John3:16 wrote:

trodgers wrote:Shaq did leave a ton of points at the line, but he's also old already, has a huge frame, and I can't imagine him having gotten a few hundred more games out of that body.

Shaq made 5935 of 11252 FTs. 52% for his career. If he was at 75%, which is pretty decent for a big man, he would've scored 2504 more points, leaving him in 5th place, but delaying Kobe's rise by about another season.

I agree to an extent. One thing though is Shaq also got alot of those FTs solely based on him being a poor FT shooter and coaches being willing to play the percentages. I think his FTA total would be lower if he was a better FT shooter. To be fair though, teams would be more cautious about fouling him and he'd have higher percentage shots. It all comes back to how much better off Shaq would be if he could knock them down at a higher clip though.


OT a bit, but I just remembered when Shaq was with the Suns and had been complaining about the Spurs using the Hack-a-Shaq when they met in the 08 playoffs. So the next season they played on opening night, and Shaq gets intentionally fouled immediately , literally 3 seconds or so after the opening tipoff.

Everyone's all confused as to what just happened, and the camera switches to show Pop on the bench looking at Shaq with two thumbs up and a giant grin on his face. Everyone cracked up, even Shaq. Absolutely a classic moment.

Yeah that was hilarious!

^wtf

That's hilarious. I didn't see that. Rare to see Pop do something like that.

I've seen that clip before. Pop is a funny guy. But what's up with the beard?

kobe 6th all time....wwwwoooowww.

Kobe's 6th now. We're watching this guy fly up the list like nothing.

Hope this thread doesn't get too buried. Got awhile before he passes Shaq. But he will be moving up the playoff point total soon.

congrats to kobe...now its time to catch shaq...

If Kobe averages 25 over the next 47 games in the regular season he'll catch Shaq's total as of right now.

Props Kobe......I can't wait to see him pass shaq in points & finals MVP's

therealdeal wrote:If Kobe averages 25 over the next 47 games in the regular season he'll catch Shaq's total as of right now.

^^ Just amazing. And Shaq obviously isn't adding to his totals any time this season, so he'll be where he is now until next year.

I really hope there's no lockout for next year but it's probably wishful thinking. Congratulations Kobe on getting to 6! I like how the Dr. brought up Moses' ABA numbers (of course that goes for himself as well!). In my perspective that's still the true list of all time, and I do think Kobe will get to the same level ultimately in both of those lists.

Kobe's really moving up there now. I mean 6th all time. Only Kareem, Malone, MJ, Chamberlin and Shaq ahead of him. Everyone else he has eclipsed.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Kobe's really moving up there now. I mean 6th all time. Only Kareem, Malone, MJ, Chamberlin and Shaq ahead of him. Everyone else he has eclipsed.

^^ In terms of NBA points allowed only, yes. Let's be real here though, even if you are against counting the ABA's points as one for one because they were a more scoring heavy league, it's still not fair to discount it all together. For this discussion here, yes, Kobe's passed Dr. J, Dan Issel and Moses Malone. But on the all time NBA/ABA list he has not. He will pass Issel very soon and will be right behind Shaq just as he is all time NBA (40 more points). It'll take another 2000 points to surpass Moses on the combined list, though, and 2500 more for the good Dr.

It doesn't bug me all that much in regard to Kobe because the top 4 scorers all time are NBA only and I think Kobe will land squarely in there at number 3. However, it is a pretty gross disrespect to Dr. and Moses that their stats are completely discounted as if they never happened. The NBA ought to get that together. I know we've been over it saying they were two different leagues, but ask yourself honestly if you think the Doctor and Moses wouldn't have scored at least close to the same number of points during their primes if they had switched leagues. It would have been damn close regardless of "style of play." Who in the NBA at that time was going to stop Dr. J in his prime? He was the Michael Jordan of the '70s. He was the best offensive player in the ABA.