Pringles To Save The Day?

Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:16 am

Hmmm... Paul Westhead still alive?
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby therealdeal on Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:20 am

trodgers wrote:Get Brown out of there. I don't mind if they run the Princeton offense. In fact, I think it's good for our personnel. But Brown's substitutions have been strange. He cannot manage minutes. He seemingly cannot command the respect of the team. And he is absolutely ineffective at making adjustments.

Something tells me that there would be immediate mutual respect between D'antoni and several current Lakers.

I support this.
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby Lakerjones on Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:24 am

I'm sorry guys, but I don't see Pringles touching the Princeton offense with a ten foot pole. He'll run his own system.

If you want to keep the Princeton (I don't really care about it personally), then you should be hoping that they just let Eddie Jordan and Bernie run the show. As stated many times, I'm fine with that. I think it will be much better than Brown.

I'm not in love with it though. Give us Phil Jackson or Jerry Sloan and I'd be ecstatic.I want nothing less than a hall of fame coach to pair up with this 4 HOF lineup.
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby therealdeal on Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:29 am

I've said repeatedly that Bickerstaff and Jordan were brought in as potential replacements and I expect that if Brown were fired, one of them would end up stepping in as Head Coach.

But trodgers brings the point that at least 3 of these guys has built in respect for Pringles as a coach. Kobe, Nash, and Howard have all played under him at some capacity over the years. I'd let him take the helm as head coach, give some input to the offense but let Jordan just have full reign. Pringles would be a figurehead like Brown, but better and with the respect of his team.

As for Phil... The problem is that he'd try to implement the Triangle back and that'd be even more difficult than what we've been doing so far. To go from one difficult system to learn to another difficult system to learn... that's asking for even more trouble.

My hope after we fire Brown:
1. Let Bickerstaff take over.
2. Let Jordan take over.
3. Hire D'Antoni as a respectable figurehead.
4. Anything else.
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby The Rock on Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:37 am

Couple of things, I like D'Antoni a lot but his rotations are pretty short too (granted he plays the right players in their right positions) in his time with Phoenix. Maybe he'll learn from it? He completely ignores defense so I wouldn't hire him without a defensive coach next to him like a Rambis or something
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:39 am

D'Antoni isn't a coach that is compatible with our personnel. This team isn't an up tempo group and we don't have the 3 point shooters to support his style. If we tried to play up tempo against some of the other top teams we'd get killed because that style would kill our already poor defense by giving more possessions to the opponents.

If we make a change it's got to be for a coach that can get the respect of the entire team the minute he walks through the door. Phil, Sloan or even a guy like Hubbie Brown..... I'm afraid that if it's anyone else it's going to be the same...... only different.

We'll know more after tonight..... if we lose it's going to get interesting. If we win it might all go away.....
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby Lakerjones on Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:42 am

therealdeal wrote:I've said repeatedly that Bickerstaff and Jordan were brought in as potential replacements and I expect that if Brown were fired, one of them would end up stepping in as Head Coach.

But trodgers brings the point that at least 3 of these guys has built in respect for Pringles as a coach. Kobe, Nash, and Howard have all played under him at some capacity over the years. I'd let him take the helm as head coach, give some input to the offense but let Jordan just have full reign. Pringles would be a figurehead like Brown, but better and with the respect of his team.

As for Phil... The problem is that he'd try to implement the Triangle back and that'd be even more difficult than what we've been doing so far. To go from one difficult system to learn to another difficult system to learn... that's asking for even more trouble.

My hope after we fire Brown:
1. Let Bickerstaff take over.
2. Let Jordan take over.
3. Hire D'Antoni as a respectable figurehead.
4. Anything else.


^^ How in the world would playing the triangle be harder for these guys than learning a Frankenoffense that doesn't make any sense?

3 of our starters have played under Phil's triangle, and Blake has played under Phil. These guys would be fine. The center position is the easiest to learn in Dwight's case. And Nash would be better utilized in the triangle than he has thus far.

I'm not saying it's going to happen. In fact, I'm sure it's not, but Phil coming back would be glorious. If not Phil then at least get Sloan who is a hall of fame coach and a nice fit for this personnel.
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby charvin on Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:49 am

Did D'Antoni manage his players' minutes well during his stint in NY?

I think we're all for hiring a new coach, but it's just a few simple flaws that needs to be fixed. Managing minutes (so that players like Gasol and Bryant do not have to freakin play the entire 1st quarter), and proper rotations (players at their proper/optimal spots).
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby therealdeal on Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:50 am

Because the Triangle is a difficult offense to learn already, LJ. It can take guys years to figure out the nuances of it and some of them never learn at all. I think Gasol might be the only player I remember that came here and understood it almost immediately.

The thing about Jackson is that if guys weren't understanding the offense, he coached them to give them other advantages. During our last 3 Finals runs, our bench didn't know the Triangle worth a s***, but they got out and ran the ball and got some other opportunities. You think Farmar knew what the hell the Triangle was?

Now you want to implement that after already attempting to implement an offense like it? You want to confuse guys who are already confused? They're having enough trouble with the Princeton, so let's introduce an offense that's kind of like it. How does that make any sense?

Just because Kobe and Pau know it, doesn't mean guys like Howard and Nash and Meeks and Jamison and Hill know it. I doubt World Peace knows it very well and Blake was an AWFUL fit for it.

If you don't like the Princeton for this team, the Triangle holds almost the same problems. Implementing the Triangle is just another system that takes away from the natural abilities of Steve Nash. It's not a free-flow offense that would allow Nash the ability to do what he wants. That's counter-intuitive to scrapping the Princeton.
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby karacha on Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:57 am

Well, if we lose against Detroit, all hell is going to break loose.
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby Lakerjones on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:00 am

^^ I'm not going to get into an in depth debate about it with you realdeal because I just read your post in the Brown thread that you are enamored of the offense we have in place, and I personally hate it.

But what I'm saying just off the bat is that the continuity of running the Triangle with Phil with this group of starters would be better than trying to reinvent the wheel with Jordan and the Princeton. Our team looks utterly confused right now on both sides of the ball.

If you are seriously saying that we would be better off with Jordan and Bickerstaff than Phil - that's fine, that's your opinion.

I'm not saying it would EVER happen, given Jim Buss's hatred of Phil. In fact I would say it's 99% not going to happen.

But if it were at all a possibility - and after all Phil is unemployed and still very close to the organization (we all know how), he'd be the number one choice in my book.
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby therealdeal on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:00 am

CL will be down for a week. :man10:

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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby therealdeal on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:05 am

Lakerjones wrote:^^ I'm not going to get into an in depth debate about it with you realdeal because I just read your post in the Brown thread that you are enamored of the offense we have in place, and I personally hate it.

But what I'm saying just off the bat is that the continuity of running the Triangle with Phil with this group of starters would be better than trying to reinvent the wheel with Jordan and the Princeton. Our team looks utterly confused right now on both sides of the ball.

If you are seriously saying that we would be better off with Jordan and Bickerstaff than Phil - that's fine, that's your opinion.

I'm not saying it would EVER happen, given Jim Buss's hatred of Phil. In fact I would say it's 99% not going to happen.

But if it were at all a possibility - and after all Phil is unemployed and still very close to the organization (we all know how), he'd be the number one choice in my book.


Fair enough. I personally think the offense looks just fine. The problems I'm seeing are all fixable (namely turnovers, turnovers are fixable).

I think bringing Phil back here is a romantic idea. If it happened, obviously I'd be very happy. But if it happened I'd also expect that the offense would take a while to click as well. It takes YEARS to get that offense perfect. If Phil came back I think a lot of good things would happen, but it wouldn't be the smoothest transition there either.

The one thing Phil would do is understand that if the offense isn't clicking, it's okay to do other things while we learn. That's one spot where Brown has been utterly horrifying. We don't need to run the offense every trip down. The guys are learning that, but it's taking too long. With Phil, that transition would be smoother.

But my thing is we don't need Phil for that, we just need to not have Brown. Either way, let's just all celebrate the fact that even I, the guy who has been begging for patience with Brown, has lost all patience with Brown.

I'm on the fire Mike Brown bandwagon now.
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby kray28 on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:09 am

karacha wrote:Well, if we lose against Detroit, all hell is going to break loose.


Hell's already broken loose. Pringles is just a rumor mentioned by Lazenby though. A vast majority of fans want Potato gone though. It is not just because of the losses it is because of gross incompetence. Stuff like playing Kobe 43 mins and giving none to Meeks, and then throwing the players under the bus after the loss to Portland by saying it was effort and not the system.

I wonder if he gets a pass because Nash is hurt though.
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby Jellincon on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:12 am

I think Nate McMillan is a guy who should be looked at as well. I don't think rotations will be a problem with him since he was able to get the most out of his players in Portland despite all of their injury issues. He's also shown at least some capability and willingness of adjusting his offensive system to his personnel. I remember before Portland got Gerald Wallace and Raymond Felton the Blazers having one if the slowest paces in the league, but once those guys were on the team he adjusted the pace to have Felton push the ball for more fastbreak opportunities.

He may not be a Sloan or P. Jackson but he's at least better then Brown and IMO a much better fit than D'Antoni (McMillan at least cares to some capacity about defense).
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby karacha on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:15 am

kray28 wrote:
karacha wrote:Well, if we lose against Detroit, all hell is going to break loose.


Hell's already broken loose.


You haven't seen anything. Trust me.
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby kray28 on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:17 am

Fatal flaw in the Princeton: it's an offense where anyone can be the point guard. That means everyone on the floor needs to have good passing skills and instincts. Not all the Lakers on the floor, even in the starting lineup have good passing skills and instincts.

There's a reason why Nash gets big bucks to be a point guard. Why get Nash if you're going to run an offense that won't need his playmaking skill?

Princeton is a good idea for the bench...it would be a nice coaching challenge to teach them.
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby kray28 on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:18 am

karacha wrote:
kray28 wrote:
karacha wrote:Well, if we lose against Detroit, all hell is going to break loose.


Hell's already broken loose.


You haven't seen anything. Trust me.


It was Saturday, CL was down, but the Laker Nation as abuzz, they're already fed up with Clown.
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:20 am

karacha wrote:
kray28 wrote:
karacha wrote:Well, if we lose against Detroit, all hell is going to break loose.


Hell's already broken loose.


You haven't seen anything. Trust me.


If we hire D'Antoni it might break loose IMHO....

Why not a guy like Jeff Van Gundy?.... he'd fix the defense and his style is compatible with our players....
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby Lakerjones on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:22 am

therealdeal wrote:
Lakerjones wrote:^^ I'm not going to get into an in depth debate about it with you realdeal because I just read your post in the Brown thread that you are enamored of the offense we have in place, and I personally hate it.

But what I'm saying just off the bat is that the continuity of running the Triangle with Phil with this group of starters would be better than trying to reinvent the wheel with Jordan and the Princeton. Our team looks utterly confused right now on both sides of the ball.

If you are seriously saying that we would be better off with Jordan and Bickerstaff than Phil - that's fine, that's your opinion.

I'm not saying it would EVER happen, given Jim Buss's hatred of Phil. In fact I would say it's 99% not going to happen.

But if it were at all a possibility - and after all Phil is unemployed and still very close to the organization (we all know how), he'd be the number one choice in my book.


Fair enough. I personally think the offense looks just fine. The problems I'm seeing are all fixable (namely turnovers, turnovers are fixable).

I think bringing Phil back here is a romantic idea. If it happened, obviously I'd be very happy. But if it happened I'd also expect that the offense would take a while to click as well. It takes YEARS to get that offense perfect. If Phil came back I think a lot of good things would happen, but it wouldn't be the smoothest transition there either.

The one thing Phil would do is understand that if the offense isn't clicking, it's okay to do other things while we learn. That's one spot where Brown has been utterly horrifying. We don't need to run the offense every trip down. The guys are learning that, but it's taking too long. With Phil, that transition would be smoother.

But my thing is we don't need Phil for that, we just need to not have Brown. Either way, let's just all celebrate the fact that even I, the guy who has been begging for patience with Brown, has lost all patience with Brown.

I'm on the fire Mike Brown bandwagon now.


^^ Totally agree with you on all of this realdeal. I'm glad you've come over to the dark side! :man10:

The man just needs to go. I don't want D'Antoni, though re: the OP. I don't see him as saving the day at all - just more band-aid fixing.
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby Lakerjones on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:23 am

Rooscooter wrote:
karacha wrote:
kray28 wrote:
karacha wrote:Well, if we lose against Detroit, all hell is going to break loose.


Hell's already broken loose.


You haven't seen anything. Trust me.


If we hire D'Antoni it might break loose IMHO....

Why not a guy like Jeff Van Gundy?.... he'd fix the defense and his style is compatible with our players....


I'm not a huge fan, but I'd take JVG over Pringles.
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby therealdeal on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:25 am

I really don't know if there's a solution that wouldn't be a band-aid at this point... Even Jackson would be that at this point.

Either way, Brown's flaws are going to cost us a Championship. The offense is not nearly the issue that the defense is and the rotations by themselves could cost us a Championship.

And I brought up JVG in another thread. He'd fix the defense.
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:26 am

I just can't understand why we aren't even competitive in these games. We have great players yet rookies and scrubs just destroys them. We can't hang with the other team's second unit, not even our starters. Looks like the losing in preseason got to them and they lost all confidence.
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:27 am

kray28 wrote:Fatal flaw in the Princeton: it's an offense where anyone can be the point guard. That means everyone on the floor needs to have good passing skills and instincts. Not all the Lakers on the floor, even in the starting lineup have good passing skills and instincts.

There's a reason why Nash gets big bucks to be a point guard. Why get Nash if you're going to run an offense that won't need his playmaking skill?

Princeton is a good idea for the bench...it would be a nice coaching challenge to teach them.


Yup.... the Princeton as well as the Triangle are offenses designed to have everyone equally touch the ball and are predicated on moving without the ball. They are designed to cover for the weaknesses of players not extenuate the strengths of players. On a team of guys that have been the offensive focus of teams their entire career it's not easy to get them to play a one size fit's all offense and "move without the ball"...... Guys like Kobe and Nash have never had to do that to get majority of their touches.... it's not something you can re-wire in an afternoon....

With Nash we should play his style IMHO..... let him create and break the defense down..... the other guys will follow his lead....

The defensive end is a bigger concern of mine actually..... WTH has happened there?.... I'll bet 80% of the shots we given up are with no Laker within 3 feet of the shooter....
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Re: Pringles To Save The Day?

Postby Doc Brown on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:29 am

^^^ Roo, you know why it's Bynum's fault.
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