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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby lakerfan2 on Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:46 am

halekulani wrote:it's bad for the player as a risk, but how is this better for a team? nothing hurts a team more than using a lottery pick on someone who is injury prone and managed to squeak through a year of college bball only to get injured at the pro level.

you can't predict injuries or make that a sole excuse as to why someone should go for the nba draft imo. yes, go ahead and make the argument that he would lose out on millions of dollars, blah blah blah blah. is that going to make you feel better after the lakers use a draft pick on that same player?

it's also hilarious how many ppl are saying no to college when the only thing you hear about guys like damian lillard are how they are going to get better in this league. everyone seems to forget that dame went to college for FOUR years. hibbert already stated that he wouldn't be here today if he hadn't stayed at georgetown.


we're talking about players who are projected lottery picks in their freshman year, not players who sat under the radar and finally had a breakout year. sorry, but was lillard ever mentioned as a 1/2/3rd overall pick ever in his college career? he was selected 6th. hibbert was a 17th pick anyway.

do you think Oden, who was only really at best Ben Wallace ceiling, would have the extended career he's had rather than if he had those injuries in college? no one would touch him with those knees.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby halekulani on Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:48 am

yeah but it is pretty clear some of these guys are unpolished

just bc they are lottery picks doesn't mean staying in college can't help them get better
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby lakerfan2 on Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:50 am

the nba and college game are vastly different.

a player like embiid would benefit playing in a league that lets a team pack the paint without any consequences. he'll face players his size and learn how to play against that type of physicality. he'll adjust to the nba conditioning rather than staying and getting used to the 20:00 halves of a college game.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby halekulani on Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:57 am

therealdeal wrote:You have a shot at guaranteed millions and your response is "blah blah blah"?

my response isn't blah blah blah. all i'm hearing is one argument trumping everything else even in the face of evidence.

i think it's sad to see the discussion of whether one should enter the draft or stay for the benefits of college being reduced to one fact that has nothing to do with actual basketball and has everything to do with where you stand on a mock draft board.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby halekulani on Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:02 am

lakerfan2 wrote:the nba and college game are vastly different.

a player like embiid would benefit playing in a league that lets a team pack the paint without any consequences. he'll face players his size and learn how to play against that type of physicality. he'll adjust to the nba conditioning rather than staying and getting used to the 20:00 halves of a college game.

obviously they are different

he also has like 5 years of basketball experience
shaq was a monster and even he competed for more than a year
there's a lot more to learn in basketball even if you have a great physical advantage over your opponents
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby lakerfan2 on Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:07 am

like i said in the comments you overlooked and insidiously claimed that my argument was just about "money", players want to make the jump for competition. if i'm a player wanting to get better, I want to play against the best. the college level isn't nearly as competitive as it was back in the day, because players are entering the NBA so young.

yes, you can look back on history and say the shaq, robinson, ewing, jordan, magic, bird had all celebrated and successful college careers. but that has not been prevailant anymore since the KG/Kobe era of entering the draft by high school. The only reason players like Durant ever went to college is because of the 1 year rule. Do you really think Wiggins would've still gone to college had he the opportunity to go straight through to "become a better player in college?" HIGHLY doubt it.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Aonex on Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:09 am

Another article about Exum:

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2 ... ius-randle

We are still a long way from the NBA draft—just about four months, in fact—but already, questions have arisen about the intentions of star Australian guard Dante Exum. Already, Exum has acknowledged that he is a fan of Kobe Bryant, and signed with agent Rob Pelinka, who also represents Bryant. And Exum has said he’d love to play in Los Angeles.

But would Exum go so far as to try to angle his way onto the Lakers, who currently have the fifth-worst record in the NBA? That’s the concern among some front-office executives around the league.

“When you hear some of what he says, it does make you wonder how the process is going to go as far as workouts and that sort of thing,” one general manager told Sporting News. “We have seen this story before, of course. I am not sure a player can have that kind of control, though.”

And, in recent times, at least, the story has not exactly worked out the way the player hoped. When Ricky Rubio attempted to land himself with the Thunder, Clippers or Kings in ’09, all three teams passed on him and he wound up going to Minnesota.

In 2007, when Yi Jianlian was trying to select his market, he only worked out in front of the Hawks, Celtics, Bulls, Lakers, Clippers, Kings, Warriors and Sixers. Three teams with Top 7 picks—Milwaukee, Memphis and Minnesota—were not invited to watch him. The Bucks drafted Yi anyway.

If Exum wanted to go old-school, he could threaten to play overseas if anyone except the Lakers were to draft him. Already playing in Australia, that would not come across as an idle threat. That’s not a common path, but back in 1989, forward Danny Ferry refused to play for the Clippers after they used the No. 2 pick on him, signing on in Italy until his rights were traded later that year.

It could be moot speculation, of course, because the woebegone Lakers are positioned to be in the Top 5 as things stand, and could bump up depending on how the lottery shakes out. Exum is slated to be in the Top 5, but not likely to go with one of the top two or three picks.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Center Court on Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:10 am

Weezy wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:One game behind the Magic. We haven't even hit hell month (March) yet.

With the orders coming down from the front office, combined with holding out our better players...

It's clear we're on the full tank mode. I think we're on our way to the 3rd worst record in the League. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if we're in the conversation for 2nd before it's all said and done.

Coming up-
Kings, @ Blazers, Pelicans, Clippers, @ Nuggets, Thunder, @ Thunder, @ Spurs, Spurs (who thought those 4 games would be fair?), Wizards, Magic, Knicks, @ Bucks, @ Wolves, Suns

I can see us going 4-11.

Unfortunately the Sixers are going to face a tough challenge too over the next 15 games.


Like I said when a couple people were mad we beat the Cavs, Sixers, and then Celtics later on, why get mad over one win every bunch of games or to teams even worse than us. The losing will continue, a few wins aren't going to kill us by the end of the season, we will end up with a bottom 3 to 5 record.


#5 is not good enough.

In whatever order it goes Parker, Wiggins, Embiid. That's a lock. Depending on who picks #4, it comes to Exum or Randle. Randle is very proven coming out after his freshman year while Exum is a large mystery.

It seems like every week I change on who I'd take first, but getting in the top 4 is crucial IMO.

Nothing is a guarantee but Wiggins, Parker, Embiid and Exum are all guys who I think can be all stars and maybe even franchise players .
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby halekulani on Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:14 am

lakerfan2 wrote:like i said in the comments you overlooked and insidiously claimed that my argument was just about "money", players want to make the jump for competition. if i'm a player wanting to get better, I want to play against the best. the college level isn't nearly as competitive as it was back in the day, because players are entering the NBA so young.

yes, you can look back on history and say the shaq, robinson, ewing, jordan, magic, bird had all celebrated and successful college careers. but that has not been prevailant anymore since the KG/Kobe era of entering the draft by high school. The only reason players like Durant ever went to college is because of the 1 year rule. Do you really think Wiggins would've still gone to college had he the opportunity to go straight through to "become a better player in college?" HIGHLY doubt it.

because the primary argument you have is about money. there IS competition at the college level.

that doesn't excuse the fact that not all the greats even win the championship at the college level.
there is plenty of competition even though it isn't as much as the nba and there is much to learn from it. just ask kyrie, davis, or melo. it isn't easy to win an ncaa championship. derrick rose will tell you that.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby therealdeal on Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:19 am

halekulani wrote:
therealdeal wrote:You have a shot at guaranteed millions and your response is "blah blah blah"?

my response isn't blah blah blah. all i'm hearing is one argument trumping everything else even in the face of evidence.

i think it's sad to see the discussion of whether one should enter the draft or stay for the benefits of college being reduced to one fact that has nothing to do with actual basketball and has everything to do with where you stand on a mock draft board.

Well it's an excellent argument. The same can be said for Carmelo leaving New York or Irving leaving Cleveland. Do you think they're going to stay in their respective markets over the next 3-5 years because of anything other than money?

Besides, there's cases on both sides that show the benefits of leaving or staying in college (or earlier). Kobe, Garnett, LeBron, Irving, Durant... They've all done fine.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby halekulani on Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:31 am

but how many have had as little experience as embiid? his situation outside of athleticism and draft status is not comparable.

stoudemire is the only person i can think of who started basketball late
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Weezy on Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:45 am

Center Court wrote:
Weezy wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:One game behind the Magic. We haven't even hit hell month (March) yet.

With the orders coming down from the front office, combined with holding out our better players...

It's clear we're on the full tank mode. I think we're on our way to the 3rd worst record in the League. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if we're in the conversation for 2nd before it's all said and done.

Coming up-
Kings, @ Blazers, Pelicans, Clippers, @ Nuggets, Thunder, @ Thunder, @ Spurs, Spurs (who thought those 4 games would be fair?), Wizards, Magic, Knicks, @ Bucks, @ Wolves, Suns

I can see us going 4-11.

Unfortunately the Sixers are going to face a tough challenge too over the next 15 games.


Like I said when a couple people were mad we beat the Cavs, Sixers, and then Celtics later on, why get mad over one win every bunch of games or to teams even worse than us. The losing will continue, a few wins aren't going to kill us by the end of the season, we will end up with a bottom 3 to 5 record.


#5 is not good enough.

In whatever order it goes Parker, Wiggins, Embiid. That's a lock. Depending on who picks #4, it comes to Exum or Randle. Randle is very proven coming out after his freshman year while Exum is a large mystery.

It seems like every week I change on who I'd take first, but getting in the top 4 is crucial IMO.

Nothing is a guarantee but Wiggins, Parker, Embiid and Exum are all guys who I think can be all stars and maybe even franchise players .


Ending with the 5th worst record doesn't equal the 5th pick any more than ending with the worst record equals the #1 pick, there's a draft lottery. Do people still not realize this isn't the NFL?
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Chillbongo on Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:50 am

therealdeal wrote:Besides, there's cases on both sides that show the benefits of leaving or staying in college (or earlier). Kobe, Garnett, LeBron, Irving, Durant... They've all done fine.

Exactly. In fact that's not a bad pool at all. If you told me that some of the most notable HS to NBA players were Kobe, LeBron, and Garnett..... :man4:

Not to mention:

Shawn Kemp
Jermaine O'Neal
T-Mac
Dwight
Bynum
Tyson Chandler

I think I read a stat somewhere that 10/40ish of the high-school-to-nba draftees were selected to the All-Star game at least once.

25% odds. Not bad at all. Better than the college to nba odds....
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby lakerfan2 on Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:52 am

halekulani wrote:
lakerfan2 wrote:like i said in the comments you overlooked and insidiously claimed that my argument was just about "money", players want to make the jump for competition. if i'm a player wanting to get better, I want to play against the best. the college level isn't nearly as competitive as it was back in the day, because players are entering the NBA so young.

yes, you can look back on history and say the shaq, robinson, ewing, jordan, magic, bird had all celebrated and successful college careers. but that has not been prevailant anymore since the KG/Kobe era of entering the draft by high school. The only reason players like Durant ever went to college is because of the 1 year rule. Do you really think Wiggins would've still gone to college had he the opportunity to go straight through to "become a better player in college?" HIGHLY doubt it.

because the primary argument you have is about money. there IS competition at the college level.

that doesn't excuse the fact that not all the greats even win the championship at the college level.
there is plenty of competition even though it isn't as much as the nba and there is much to learn from it. just ask kyrie, davis, or melo. it isn't easy to win an ncaa championship. derrick rose will tell you that.


:man10: :man10:
and ALL of those players were projected top 3 picks who left in their freshman year...uhh.

one bad game in the tournament means you're out. how does that translate to a 7 game series in the playoffs?
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Helljumper on Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:21 pm

Weezy wrote:
Center Court wrote:
Weezy wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:One game behind the Magic. We haven't even hit hell month (March) yet.

With the orders coming down from the front office, combined with holding out our better players...

It's clear we're on the full tank mode. I think we're on our way to the 3rd worst record in the League. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if we're in the conversation for 2nd before it's all said and done.

Coming up-
Kings, @ Blazers, Pelicans, Clippers, @ Nuggets, Thunder, @ Thunder, @ Spurs, Spurs (who thought those 4 games would be fair?), Wizards, Magic, Knicks, @ Bucks, @ Wolves, Suns

I can see us going 4-11.

Unfortunately the Sixers are going to face a tough challenge too over the next 15 games.


Like I said when a couple people were mad we beat the Cavs, Sixers, and then Celtics later on, why get mad over one win every bunch of games or to teams even worse than us. The losing will continue, a few wins aren't going to kill us by the end of the season, we will end up with a bottom 3 to 5 record.


#5 is not good enough.

In whatever order it goes Parker, Wiggins, Embiid. That's a lock. Depending on who picks #4, it comes to Exum or Randle. Randle is very proven coming out after his freshman year while Exum is a large mystery.

It seems like every week I change on who I'd take first, but getting in the top 4 is crucial IMO.

Nothing is a guarantee but Wiggins, Parker, Embiid and Exum are all guys who I think can be all stars and maybe even franchise players .


Ending with the 5th worst record doesn't equal the 5th pick any more than ending with the worst record equals the #1 pick, there's a draft lottery. Do people still not realize this isn't the NFL?


Well actually it does. Getting the 5th worst record has a 26.1% chance of getting the fifth pick. Getting the worst record has a 25% chance of getting the first pick.

I know, it's a small difference. I'm just being a smart*** because I hate this argument. Yes, the NBA draft works as a lottery so nothing is guaranteed. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to maximize our odds in that lottery. A loss against Sacramento would be very beneficial to us. You might argue, it's just one game so who cares if we win, we'll end up losing more anyways. But at this point, the season is almost over. Every game is important. I wanted the wins over Boston, but we can't get too complacent now. The tanking standings are fairly close and you have to consider tiebreakers too. If we end up beating Sacramento in our next two match-ups, that could end up taking us from the #4 seed all the way down to #6 or #7 depending on how other things play out. That takes us from a 38% chance of getting into the top 3, down to a 22% chance. That is significant.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby therealdeal on Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:33 pm

halekulani wrote:but how many have had as little experience as embiid? his situation outside of athleticism and draft status is not comparable.

stoudemire is the only person i can think of who started basketball late

I'm not sure that it matters to me that much honestly. In fact it's beneficial in some ways because he didn't come up through the God awful youth leagues that most of these pro athletes go through.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby lakerfan2 on Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:56 pm

DIdn't Andrew Bynum start late in his high school career?
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Johnnyboy on Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:09 pm

ESPN currently has exum ahead of parker as the 3rd pick. Saying that embiid/wiggins/parker are a top 3 lock isn't really a true statement. It really depends on the team needs.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby khmrP on Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:25 pm

lakerfan2 wrote:DIdn't Andrew Bynum start late in his high school career?


a better example is Olowakandi in regards to bball experience and exploding onto the college scene. Although Kandi man had to go 4yrs in college to get that hype, he still could've amounted to a solid big if he wasn't so lazy and of course injuries. Hopefully this Embiid fella has more drive to be great but as with any big he has to have the right coaching and developement and while I saw some post say dont waste cap on Pau to help out Embiid, I would do it IF we couldn't sign anyone better for shorter term. Pau could be a great mentor for Embiid, Embiid has foot work and soft touch like Pau.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Center Court on Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:06 pm

Weezy wrote:
Center Court wrote:
Weezy wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:One game behind the Magic. We haven't even hit hell month (March) yet.

With the orders coming down from the front office, combined with holding out our better players...

It's clear we're on the full tank mode. I think we're on our way to the 3rd worst record in the League. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if we're in the conversation for 2nd before it's all said and done.

Coming up-
Kings, @ Blazers, Pelicans, Clippers, @ Nuggets, Thunder, @ Thunder, @ Spurs, Spurs (who thought those 4 games would be fair?), Wizards, Magic, Knicks, @ Bucks, @ Wolves, Suns

I can see us going 4-11.

Unfortunately the Sixers are going to face a tough challenge too over the next 15 games.


Like I said when a couple people were mad we beat the Cavs, Sixers, and then Celtics later on, why get mad over one win every bunch of games or to teams even worse than us. The losing will continue, a few wins aren't going to kill us by the end of the season, we will end up with a bottom 3 to 5 record.


#5 is not good enough.

In whatever order it goes Parker, Wiggins, Embiid. That's a lock. Depending on who picks #4, it comes to Exum or Randle. Randle is very proven coming out after his freshman year while Exum is a large mystery.

It seems like every week I change on who I'd take first, but getting in the top 4 is crucial IMO.

Nothing is a guarantee but Wiggins, Parker, Embiid and Exum are all guys who I think can be all stars and maybe even franchise players .


Ending with the 5th worst record doesn't equal the 5th pick any more than ending with the worst record equals the #1 pick, there's a draft lottery. Do people still not realize this isn't the NFL?


Yes. People are not retards and do realize there is a lotto. I said the #5 pick is not good enough. I also said nothing is a guarantee which by that I meant can get the #1 Odds and get the #3 pick. We could also get the #7 odds and get #2.

So thank you for you presumptuous post but I understand the lotto system. I also understand the lower the record, the higher the odds. So yes, I would rather increase our odds and not have the fifth best odds.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Jordan-esque on Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:19 pm

DeMarcus Cousin suspended against the Lakers tomorrow.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby khmrP on Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:23 pm

^^^dam that guy usually tends to drop big #'s on us too...freakin idiot.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby last stand on Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:26 pm

well the benefit to getting #1 overall is at worst you get a top 4 pick. with the 5th record you could very well land the 8th pick just as much as the 3rd pick

getting the 3rd worst record is beneficial for us because then worst case scenario is we get the 6th and at 6 you might be able to have exum force his way to the lakers because it's only two spots.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Weezy on Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:59 pm

I guess after years of not seeing the team with the worst record in the league get the top pick and seeing the rest of the top 5 to 7 be kinda random as hell, I just kinda look at the lottery as a total crapshoot. But yes, you all are correct, statistically our chances are of course better the worse our record is, I didn't mean to "presume" anything.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby therealdeal on Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:01 pm

Both of you are right. The worse you are, the better chance at the highest pick.

But the history of the draft has proven that the worst team almost never gets the number one pick.
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