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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Punk-101 on Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:29 am

LTLakerFan wrote:Mitch's wife is best gal pal with Jeannie so Mitch you would hope has the cajones to tell Jim going forward if he is being an idiot again like with Mike Brown and Mike (get him the hell out of here) D'antoni.
You sure? I thought Rambis' wife was best friends with Jeannie. Is Mitch's wife also?
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby LTLakerFan on Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:37 am

Punk-101 wrote:
LTLakerFan wrote:Mitch's wife is best gal pal with Jeannie so Mitch you would hope has the cajones to tell Jim going forward if he is being an idiot again like with Mike Brown and Mike (get him the hell out of here) D'antoni.
You sure? I thought Rambis' wife was best friends with Jeannie. Is Mitch's wife also?


Oooops. Brain fart. You're right. Have to go fix or blank other post.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby LOSLAKERS on Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:55 pm

Don't follow college players much at all but can someone explain the hype around Embiid? Looking at his stats right now and I don't really see anything that impressive. He seems like another Ibaka. Not that Ibaka is bad but would you really take him over Parker? Or even Wiggins?
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby halekulani on Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:35 pm

he is very agile for his size and has a nice soft shooting touch
he has limited basketball exp but he is playing well for someone who has to rely a lot on instincts
his numbers are low mainly bc his minutes aren't that high either.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Weezy on Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:35 pm

LOSLAKERS wrote:Don't follow college players much at all but can someone explain the hype around Embiid? Looking at his stats right now and I don't really see anything that impressive. He seems like another Ibaka. Not that Ibaka is bad but would you really take him over Parker? Or even Wiggins?


It's mostly potential I think. He's tall and long (7'0, 7'5 wingspan), he's strong, quick for his size, jumps high, blocks shots, and rebounds well. Here's his scouting video




It's from December, and he's definitely improved since then, but you still get an idea of what he looks like. He kinda reminds me of young, raw Bynum. He kinda looks similar on offense to that, he looks like him when he moves in the post to me, when he shoots hooks and layups, and when he blocks shots, they just move similar in those areas. He also reminds me of him in how he goes up soft a lot, that's how Bynum looked back before he started trying to dunk most times.mHe's quicker than Bynum though, and no knee injuries so far I'm aware of. As far as his stats, yeah, they aren't amazing, but college stats usually aren't. The last guy to actually impress m with their college stats was Kevin Durant. He looked like an NBA player in college, I still don't get not taking him #1 in the draft.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby trodgers on Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:42 pm

He looks like Howard. I'd vomit every time he reminded me of Dwight.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:57 pm

Bigs always go first over smalls. Durant was definitely the better player over Oden, but the prospect of the next great center seems to have more value.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby tigerjeterkobe on Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:22 pm

I am starting to like Smart over Exum - more NBA ready, a gritty defender, can get in the lane and set others up better than most true PGs, and he plays with confidence and a chip. He is not afraid to fail. I think he would be a stud quickly with Kobe's work ethic and focus rubbing off on him. Regardless, I want Stephenson as a block to build around going forward - whether the plan (hope) is for Love, Durant, Bron, Melo, or Irving.

Have a pick outside the top 3, take either Smart or Von Leh. Have to stretch, buyout, our just eat the year with Nash. We know he won't play.

Sign-and-trade Gasol to the Bulls for another first round pick? I doubt it. Get the Van Gundy Bros in to coach and focus on a defensive team that is versatile, athletic, and deep? Sign Ariza for part of the MLE or just a 1 year deal (to save money for Love the next year with Nash expiring). Clark to a 1-year deal to pump up his value again. Marshall has to go. Unload him for a late second round pick if possible.

Start -- Smart, Kobe, Stephenson, Clark, Hill (or Pau or Okafur on a 1-year deal)
Bench mob -- Farmar, Young, Ariza, Kelly, Sacre
Reserves -- X, Brooks, Bazemore, FA (athletic big with raw athleticism and rim protection - there are some out there).

Smart, Stephenson, and X can all play from PG to SF. Kobe, Ariza, Young, Baze, and Brooks can all play SG or SF. Clark can play SF to Center. A defensive coach could do a lot with that team.

If VonLeh or Randle in the 5-8 spot of the draft:

Start - Stuckey (one a 1-year deal), Kobe, Stephenson, Vonleh/Randle, Hill (Pau/Okafur)
Bench - Farmar, Young, Ariza, Clark, Sacre
Reserves - X, Brooks, Baze, Kelly, FA

Stephenson would have to be sold on playing minutes at PG, SG, and SF -- with the idea being the team will be his and another star's after Kobe leaves. With the league being small and fast for a lot of up-tempo pace and wing play, throwing out Smart, Kobe, Stephenson, Ariza, X, Brooks, Clark, and Baze in a solid defensive system would be fun to watch. Imagine what SVG or Thibbs could do with those players. With those guards/wings, it would be worth having Gasol for offensive reasons.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby therealdeal on Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:04 pm

I'll take a pass on your scenario. I don't care for Smart and Vonleh is a massive project. You go from wanting a guy who is NBA ready in Smart to wanting Vonleh?
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby S.R.05 on Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:53 pm

yeah i want no part of vonleh. smart at the 5th or 6th pick would be fine, but i'd still take exum first
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby tigerjeterkobe on Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:16 pm

Yes, I think that Smart is more NBA-ready than all others in the top 5 to 8 consensus-wise, except Parker.

We can disagree on him and Exum. Just a matter of me watching every one of Smart's games this year - good and bad, and seeing how he responds, shakes off bad plays, is clutch more often than not (on getting a stop or rebound or making a play or hitting a shot), and his grit. I think he would play well with Kobe and not shrink by the pressure or demands of Kobe at practice.

Yes -- sure. Vonleh is a project. so is Embiid. Wiggins. Exum. Randle. Lavine. Etc.

I watch a lot of Hoosier ball too. Vonleh is showing great signs of being a Garnett-type player. tough, can hit a mid-range and elbow shot, getting better at defending and not leaving his feet too soon (though still needs a ton of work), can sense an early double team. Good b-ball IQ signs. Playing with playmakers and transition guys like Smart, Stephenson, Farmar, X, and even Kobe would make him look like a tougher version of Gasol (in some respects). I would rather try a prospect big like him, Randle, Hood, etc. than go with Exum and hope for Love. But that is me. A lot has to do with draft spot and who is there and what we can do with the space -- AND the darn coach.

Me - I want athletic wings and guards and would make Lance a priority this summer. Anyway. Just offering. You guys pass, but how are we building around Exum and still giving Kobe a chance to win another ring in the next two years?

Hypo - if we could get Thibs. That team I have above could actually contend, even with Gasol in the middle.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Center Court on Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:10 pm

tigerjeterkobe wrote:Yes, I think that Smart is more NBA-ready than all others in the top 5 to 8 consensus-wise, except Parker.

We can disagree on him and Exum. Just a matter of me watching every one of Smart's games this year - good and bad, and seeing how he responds, shakes off bad plays, is clutch more often than not (on getting a stop or rebound or making a play or hitting a shot), and his grit. I think he would play well with Kobe and not shrink by the pressure or demands of Kobe at practice.

Yes -- sure. Vonleh is a project. so is Embiid. Wiggins. Exum. Randle. Lavine. Etc.

I watch a lot of Hoosier ball too. Vonleh is showing great signs of being a Garnett-type player. tough, can hit a mid-range and elbow shot, getting better at defending and not leaving his feet too soon (though still needs a ton of work), can sense an early double team. Good b-ball IQ signs. Playing with playmakers and transition guys like Smart, Stephenson, Farmar, X, and even Kobe would make him look like a tougher version of Gasol (in some respects). I would rather try a prospect big like him, Randle, Hood, etc. than go with Exum and hope for Love. But that is me. A lot has to do with draft spot and who is there and what we can do with the space -- AND the darn coach.

Me - I want athletic wings and guards and would make Lance a priority this summer. Anyway. Just offering. You guys pass, but how are we building around Exum and still giving Kobe a chance to win another ring in the next two years?

Hypo - if we could get Thibs. That team I have above could actually contend, even with Gasol in the middle.


Why are we so focused on getting Kobe another ring? He's getting paid enough to go with the flow considering his unknown ability to recoup from this surgery. If we can get ourselves back into contention it should be because that's the right move for now and the future not because we owe it to Kobe.

Quite frankly, we could still have Dwight had Kobe played things differently. He thought he could win without Dwight.

Unless Bron comes to LA or we could replace MDA with Thibs (an elite coach) I don't see it. This draft should be about who can be the next Kobe not who can play well enough to help him win.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby S.R.05 on Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:51 pm

Center Court wrote:Why are we so focused on getting Kobe another ring?


because that would mean winning a championship in the next couple years..is that something you don't want?
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby davriver290 on Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:01 pm

So I've been doing a lot of reading about this upcoming draft. First time really I am paying attention to it, considering that it looks like this would be an important moment for us for the upcoming years. So I guess the one mystery remains, who is going first? What is everyone's prediction? Right now, I have Embiid with Wiggins coming in 2nd. And also, whats up with this dante exum situation? I can understand if he wants to play here, who wouldn't? But, I mean are the Lakers high on this kid? If we were to get top 3 or maybe even top 2 or 1st pick, would we really skip out on Embiid or Wiggins for this Kid? Idk, I tried looking him up and tried looking for scouting videos. But everywhere I look or search, this kid seems like a mystery or something.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Center Court on Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:32 pm

Showtime.Revival.05 wrote:
Center Court wrote:Why are we so focused on getting Kobe another ring?


because that would mean winning a championship in the next couple years..is that something you don't want?


You may have stopped reading too early. I followed that sentence with this: If we can get ourselves back into contention it should be because that's the right move for now and the future not because we owe it to Kobe.

My point is that i we are going all in for next season, it should be the right move for the franchise long term more so than just trying to get Kobe another shot.

I don't want to see us draft Randle, Sign Deng/Lowry/Pau and call it a day. We all know Kobe would think he can win with that core.

LeBron is the singular move that can get us back into the finals. I don't see that happening. Otherwise, I'm not sure we can do so. Maybe if the stars align and Thibs becomes available, get lucky and get Embiid (helps now and can develop into franchise big), and then sign Melo/Lowry/Pau, I'm okay with that.

Now if we can accelerate our rebuild and trade our pick for Kyrie or Westrbook, then sure, let's do it. That'll help Kobe who I do want to see more than anything return to glory and succeed. I paid $1,200 a ticket to see his return on Dec 8th. He is my favorite athlete of all time, but the Lakers are bigger than Kobe.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby S.R.05 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:00 am

My point is that i we are going all in for next season, it should be the right move for the franchise long term more so than just trying to get Kobe another shot.


if we can get ourselves into contention in the next couple years, regardless of whether it's for kobe or not, i'm for it. i'm not really sure there's a way we could be there in the next couple years without also securing the long term future, given our current position.

also, regarding your original question of why people want kobe to win; that seems kind of obvious. the vast majority of laker fans are also huge kobe fans..as kobe is your favorite athlete of all time, wouldn't you want to see him get more credit amongst the all time greats
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby jimbo327 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:17 am

Jim hiring Phil as the President of Basketball Op happens right after hell freezes over.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby jimbo327 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:21 am

Stephenson ain't going to do nothing for us. He's a great guy coming off the bench, but if you put him as a starter...he won't be doing too much because his style is too wild.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby jimbo327 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:32 am

The only draft pick I'm interested in is Embiid, and Wiggins...in that order. The rest are...meh.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Johnnyboy on Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:46 am

Last nights kansas game showed that Smart has more drive and tenacity than Embiid and wiggins. Not saying his career will be better or that he's more talented...But he put the team on his back and won the game. Its always good to see young guys show that determination. As Laker fans we are spoiled, we've seen one of the most determined players ever. So a guy like Smart will fit right in if the lakers happen to fall to a 5-7 pick.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby karacha on Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:19 am

Yeah, Smart had a great game and really willed his team to victory.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:20 am

jimbo327 wrote:Stephenson ain't going to do nothing for us. He's a great guy coming off the bench, but if you put him as a starter...he won't be doing too much because his style is too wild.


I agree. Stephenson is getting overrated these days. The guy is a great energy type player but he doesn't have much of a refined game. He shouldn't sniff anything near the type of money that some think he should be getting. Sometimes a player can look great when there is no pressure on him to perform but once a greater role is given to him, his shortcomings show. I don't think his market value warrants his actual value.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Doc Brown on Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:43 am

Bench player? :man3: You guys even watch the Pacers?
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby lakerfan2 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:24 am

LOSLAKERS wrote:Don't follow college players much at all but can someone explain the hype around Embiid? Looking at his stats right now and I don't really see anything that impressive. He seems like another Ibaka. Not that Ibaka is bad but would you really take him over Parker? Or even Wiggins?


Stats in college are often misleading, especially as an anchor, the amount of shots he changes doesn't get recorded. The college game isn't meant for a big man to dominate either offensively. Teams can pack the paint with the zone and eliminate his size advantage.

Anyways, this was the game that got me REALLY hyped on Embiid. Keep in mind, he didn't have this game coming into the season. Joel said he watched videos of Olajuwon constantly to learn how to play in the post. It's quite reminiscent of Hakeem with those quick spins and footwork, the reading of the defense while being doubled, kicking it out, patrolling the paint. He really dominated this game in a way I haven't seen a player in college do since Kevin Durant.

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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby therealdeal on Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:36 am

Doc Brown wrote:Bench player? :man3: You guys even watch the Pacers?

Most people aren't. :man10:

@jeter- I've done my research just as much as the rest of us have on this site. Smart to me is going to be a decent NBA player. I think his ceiling is low, but yes he's basically NBA ready right now. So is Parker, but their ceilings for growth are lower than Exum, Embiid, Wiggins, and even Gordon. Those first 3 could be All-Stars some day and one of them could be a transcendent player. I see Parker and Smart being good role players right out of the gate and then maybe being better than that as things progress.

I'm going to preface this by saying that I know these comparisons are a) their ceilings and b) great players. But there's a reason why I want some more than others.

Exum, per Fran Frachilla, looks physically like a Michael Jordan circa his days in UNC. He's already hired Kobe's agent, is interested in meeting Kobe and learning from him, has attended at least one Laker game, and has approached Mayweather asking for tips on how to train for greatness. The kid seems to have the right mentality, he seems to have the physical body for the NBA, and the worst case scenario is we're stuck for 4 years with an athletic combo guard.

Smart, per my eyes/articles I've read, has trouble finishing around the rim in traffic, even after an extra year of school isn't the best decision maker, and at 6'4" he'd be more suited for PG but does he have that kind of court vision? He reminds me of a kid that could be Chauncey Billups over time, but that's a generous comparison. There's been a few guys like him over the years: physically not quite there, but strong mentally.

Parker, the comparison that I keep coming up with when I watch him is Paul Pierce, not Carmelo. He won't be a prolific scorer, just a very good one. I think he'll adjust nicely as a SF in the league and has a chance to be a good player if he ends up in the right situation. He's got to end up in Boston or LA though out of those top teams for him to really find a niche in the league. He's probably going to be Rookie of the Year though just because he's the most NBA ready scorer of the group.

Embiid, the obvious comparison is Olojuwon. I don't know that he'll ever get there, but he's certainly got the tools. He hasn't been poisoned by the AAU crowd and he is very obviously a quick learner. His major problem will be his size. He needs to bulk up. His first year or two he'll get pushed around on the block by bigger, albeit less talented, guys. If he can train up his core and his lower body, he'll have a great NBA career ahead of him.

Wiggins has elite athleticism and that's going to help set him apart. Right now he hasn't shown enough grit and enough aggressiveness. He could be a really great player if he comes out firing in the NBA. His first step is lightning quick and he could really make a difference with it. He also needs to perfect his outside shot and work on his motor. With that kind of athleticism, he could take the league by storm or he could be the next Gerald Green.

Gordon could be the next Faried and Randle really looks like Zach Randolph with more athleticism and less of those crazy shots around the rim. He could do with a little mid-range shot too.

Bottom line is that there's a lot of NBA talent in this draft, but the Lakers don't need a solid guy they need the next GREAT player. Exum and Embiid have a shot at that. Wiggins might too. Parker and Smart could, but I think their road really is more dependent on outside factors than something that they can do themselves. Gordon, Randle, Grant, and I'm missing a few others could be real NBA role players as rookies. They have some potential too, but that's not what the Lakers need.

What the Lakers need is a) an exciting player the fans can rally around and b) someone who has the ability to step into Kobe's shoes if we can't make it in free agency.

All in all though it'll depend on where we draft. If we draft 6th and get Randle then I'm willing to trade his butt to get Love if we have to. If we get 3rd and get Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, or Exum, then I'll keep them and take my chances.
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