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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Helljumper on Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:17 pm

Doc Brown wrote:
TheOp wrote:Who said anything about getting the top pick. If you take a look at the standings were in danger of falling out of the Top 7. We could potentially end up with the 8th or 9th pick.

Its such a shame to see Laker Nation care more about winning meaningless games rather then getting that impact player that could help bring another championship here.


What impact player drafted in the top 10 has brought a championship to their team? It might take you a decade, but you will find it.


Agreed. Let's trade our first rounder for cash (or better yet, for another 40 year old PG), because obviously draft picks are unimportant since most players drafted in the Top 10 don't end up leading their teams to championships.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby LTLakerFan on Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:32 pm

lakerfan2 wrote:http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10545966/kansas-jayhawks-joel-embiid-sit-final-two-regular-season-games-back-injury

I don't think this is an injury concern for the future, more of a conditioning/strength thing he'll need to develop as he plays more and more. 2 years of physical basketball play isn't much, and his body is not used to it.


Ouch! This is the play I saw where he fell on his hip/back under the basket and limped off the floor & I joked about him being injury prone. Hope nothing is started with the back that will bother him off and on in his career as I didn't know he had hurt/tweaked it earlier. Some of the high falls these guys take where they land on their lower backs and tailbones scare the crap out of you. But this was a lower to the floor fall.

Oh and yeah that was a fun game and nice win against Portland. If we had chumped it at the end, I will admit I would have considered it the perfect ending. But can't get all pissed off because some of these guys we will be keeping are showing they have game, and it doesn't accomplish anything anyway. The players aren't going to deliberately lose. It is what it is.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Doc Brown on Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:36 pm

Helljumper wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:
TheOp wrote:Who said anything about getting the top pick. If you take a look at the standings were in danger of falling out of the Top 7. We could potentially end up with the 8th or 9th pick.

Its such a shame to see Laker Nation care more about winning meaningless games rather then getting that impact player that could help bring another championship here.


What impact player drafted in the top 10 has brought a championship to their team? It might take you a decade, but you will find it.


Agreed. Let's trade our first rounder for cash (or better yet, for another 40 year old PG), because obviously draft picks are unimportant since most players drafted in the Top 10 don't end up leading their teams to championships.


His point is that a top draft pick will bring us a championship. My point is that a top draft pick doesn't guarantee that. One of those statements has evidence to back it up, the other doesn't.

Look it up. Matter a fact, the last player drafted by his team in the top 3 to win a ring for that team was Tim Duncan in 1997.

Everyone is pissing and moaning about losing out on a top pick, when in reality 2 or 3 of those "top 5" players are going to be busts or average players at best, 1 will be an all-star and the last one could be a total wild card.

Top 5 Draft Picks Since 2001 that have even contributed to the Finals win or lose
2013 - 0
2012 - 0
2011 - 0
2010 - 0
2009 - 1 (Harden)
2008 - 1 (Westbrook)
2007 - 1 (Durant)
2006 - 0
2005 - 0
2004 - 1 (Dwight)
2003 - 3 (Bosh), 4 (Lebron, Wade)
2002 - 0
2001 - 1 (Chandler), 3 (Pau)

We don't have the draft picks to form a super team like OKC, we don't have the cap space to form a super team like Miami.

I'd be happy as anyone to get a top 5 pick, but the over reliance on one of these picks, that HAS to be in the top 5 is ridiculous. Then to expect that pick to turn around and get us a championship? Even crazier.

If the point is to win championships (TheOP's main point), getting a top 5 pick doesn't guarantee s***.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Center Court on Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:26 am

^^ but a top 3 pick has a ton more trade value than a #7 pick . So if for no other reason losing games does drastically improve our chances to get an impact player. If we land the #1 pick, we can sell it high given the hype around this draft. Or we could just rely on our scouting and development and draft our next guy.

In the top 3 there are 3 blue chip prospects. Maybe 1 will bust but I like the ability to draft that guy and find out for ourselves a whole lot better than settling at #7 and being okay with whatever happens.

So that analysis of who's made it to finals as a top 5 pick is a short list but that's not showing the whole picture. Sure there are Kobes, Lillards, Paul Georges, Steph Currys of the world, but having a top choice lets you control you destiny rather than take whats best of available.

Anthony Davis, Kyrie, Wall, Blake, Harden, Rose, Westrbook, Love, Durant, LMA, CP3, Dwight, LeBron, Melo, Bosh, Wade.

All top 5 picks and of the top 20 players in the NBA, I'd say sans Bosh, all those guys make up that list for sure.

So yeah we could get Kwame or we could get Thabeet but we could also be forced to settle for someone who we are not enamored with in the 5-10 range and the cost is pride in winning some meaningless games.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Helljumper on Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:31 am

Doc Brown wrote:
Helljumper wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:
TheOp wrote:Who said anything about getting the top pick. If you take a look at the standings were in danger of falling out of the Top 7. We could potentially end up with the 8th or 9th pick.

Its such a shame to see Laker Nation care more about winning meaningless games rather then getting that impact player that could help bring another championship here.


What impact player drafted in the top 10 has brought a championship to their team? It might take you a decade, but you will find it.


Agreed. Let's trade our first rounder for cash (or better yet, for another 40 year old PG), because obviously draft picks are unimportant since most players drafted in the Top 10 don't end up leading their teams to championships.


His point is that a top draft pick will bring us a championship. My point is that a top draft pick doesn't guarantee that. One of those statements has evidence to back it up, the other doesn't.


I don't want to speak for him, but I don't think that's his point. I think his point is that losing games and ending up with a higher draft pick increases our chances of picking a player that can help us win a championship, whereas winning games accomplishes absolutely nothing other than boosting the morale of the fans and our current players.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby kenzo on Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:15 am

7-10th pick here we come :jam2: ...




:bang:
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby TheOp on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:24 am

Helljumper wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:
Helljumper wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:
TheOp wrote:Who said anything about getting the top pick. If you take a look at the standings were in danger of falling out of the Top 7. We could potentially end up with the 8th or 9th pick.

Its such a shame to see Laker Nation care more about winning meaningless games rather then getting that impact player that could help bring another championship here.


What impact player drafted in the top 10 has brought a championship to their team? It might take you a decade, but you will find it.


Agreed. Let's trade our first rounder for cash (or better yet, for another 40 year old PG), because obviously draft picks are unimportant since most players drafted in the Top 10 don't end up leading their teams to championships.


His point is that a top draft pick will bring us a championship. My point is that a top draft pick doesn't guarantee that. One of those statements has evidence to back it up, the other doesn't.


I don't want to speak for him, but I don't think that's his point. I think his point is that losing games and ending up with a higher draft pick increases our chances of picking a player that can help us win a championship, whereas winning games accomplishes absolutely nothing other than boosting the morale of the fans and our current players.


This is exactly right.

I find it funny how Doc Brown keeps referencing other teams and Top 10 picks not panning out. This is a stacked draft that wont come around very often. We have a chance to get a player that COULD help us win a championship and not become a statistic like those other teams.

My point still stands. Some of us are more worried about winning championships and not meaningless regular season games.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby KB24 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:14 am

useless win...but these guys are on 1 year contracts...they aren't going to lower their stock without a fight.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby abeer3 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:04 am

agree with both doc brown and center court, but more with center court on this one. the likelihood of getting a really valuable asset is much higher in picks 1-4 this year than in picks 4-8. and after 8, I get really worried that there's almost nothing there. when you have a season like this (and the one before it, really), you hope you can at least parlay that into an asset of some sort. if the lakers keep beating the likes of Portland on the road, they're going to play their way out of that asset. it's sad, but it's true. the knicks are dropping like a rock and the pelicans are going into full tank mode. mil, phil, bos, orl, Utah were already there. if two more teams drop below the lakers, you're looking at drafting willie cauley-stein (best case scenario?). more importantly, you've done nothing to add to the cupboard. a higher pick is more tradeable on draft night and more likely to turn into a good player.

again, really sad, but really true: winning is a terrible idea right now. it would be different if any of these guys looked like a foundational piece.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby angrypuppy on Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:42 am

Some of you act like draft position doesn't matter, and then focus on the correlation of the first overall pick under a previous CBA. That's a poor test as it ignores how this CBA influences the shape of team rosters, and that test ignores the value of high picks. Our last championship teams were led by Shaq, Kobe (1st overall, 13th though that's aberrant as Kobe wouldn't work out with other teams and feinted that he'd play in Europe), and Kobe, Pau and Lamar (13th, 3rd, 4th though Lamar would have been the 2nd pick had he not acted erratic). In other words, the correlation between draft position and key influence on winning a championship seems pretty high based on Laker anecdotal experience.

I'll take it one step further: The latest CBA is quite restrictive. It is far more difficult to stretch your roster to accommodate the signing of multiple free agent stars. As a practical matter, teams will be able to sign two stars. You cannot expect to bankroll both star free agents and multiple high-quality role player free agents. So where does that leave you? You have to hope for good draftees who have below market value rookie contracts. Those draftees are your only chance at a dynasty, as there are no Shaq-Kobe diodes available on the market (and even if there were, they wouldn't necessarily sign to play together here or anywhere else). Again, the blueprint should be to have a couple of crappy seasons, pray you draft well with high picks, hope those draftees become either very valuable role players or stars, and then use your cap space for the stars of your choice. As an added bonus, those free agents will be much more receptive to Laker overtures if the Lakers roster contains some young talent... unlike now.

This isn't rocket science, though it seems it. To use a chess analogy, you sacrifice a pawn to yield a winning position (a gambit). The "playing chess while others are playing checkers" analogy applies to our current situation... but hey, if you chose checkers have fun. Just keep in mind that others see it as a game of chess as they want the team to plan ahead of the current move.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby unpossibl1 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:14 am

angrypuppy wrote:Some of you act like draft position doesn't matter, and then focus on the correlation of the first overall pick under a previous CBA. That's a poor test as it ignores how this CBA influences the shape of team rosters, and that test ignores the value of high picks. Our last championship teams were led by Shaq, Kobe (1st overall, 13th though that's aberrant as Kobe wouldn't work out with other teams and feinted that he'd play in Europe), and Kobe, Pau and Lamar (13th, 3rd, 4th though Lamar would have been the 2nd pick had he not acted erratic). In other words, the correlation between draft position and key influence on winning a championship seems pretty high based on Laker anecdotal experience.

I'll take it one step further: The latest CBA is quite restrictive. It is far more difficult to stretch your roster to accommodate the signing of multiple free agent stars. As a practical matter, teams will be able to sign two stars. You cannot expect to bankroll both star free agents and multiple high-quality role player free agents. So where does that leave you? You have to hope for good draftees who have below market value rookie contracts. Those draftees are your only chance at a dynasty, as there are no Shaq-Kobe diodes available on the market (and even if there were, they wouldn't necessarily sign to play together here or anywhere else). Again, the blueprint should be to have a couple of crappy seasons, pray you draft well with high picks, hope those draftees become either very valuable role players or stars, and then use your cap space for the stars of your choice. As an added bonus, those free agents will be much more receptive to Laker overtures if the Lakers roster contains some young talent... unlike now.

This isn't rocket science, though it seems it. To use a chess analogy, you sacrifice a pawn to yield a winning position (a gambit). The "playing chess while others are playing checkers" analogy applies to our current situation... but hey, if you chose checkers have fun. Just keep in mind that others see it as a game of chess as they want the team to plan ahead of the current move.


GREAT analogy. I don't understand fans who want us to win this year at all. They are choosing between rebuilding for the next 2 or 3 years and rebuilding for the next 5+ and picking 5+ every time. It's completely insane. Right now, in today's CBA-destroyed NBA, losing and getting a high draft pick is the only way to get better. We have no first round pick next year and no one is trading them anymore...Pau is putting up 20 and 10 and even he couldn't get us a first! That means we have one shot, and only one, to hit it out of the park and find a superstar. If we miss this franchise is in huge trouble for the foreseeable future. As such I would much rather the Lakers get to choose from as many prospects as possible rather than win a couple meaningless games this season and have to sort through the leftovers with the 7 pick or worse.

We have had a huge opportunity to catch Orlando slip right through our fingertips by winning the last few games over the Celtics, Kings, Blazers, etc. It's incredibly frustrating to watch our guys playing their hearts out knowing that all they are accomplishing is setting our franchise back YEARS. Nash playing 10 games hurt this team enough as it is, now we have Farmar, Johnson, Pau etc playing well enough to completely bury us. I can't wait for this season to be over so I can start supporting the Lakers properly again and cheer for wins.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Doc Brown on Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:45 am

unpossibl1 wrote: I can't wait for this season to be over so I can start supporting the Lakers properly again and cheer for wins.


This is one of the more pathetic things I've read in awhile. You do realize you cheering for wins or losses has no impact on the actual outcome of the game? The group that wants us to win has cheered us to 21-39 and those rooting for losses has cheered us to 21-39.

I'd rather be the person cheering for wins, even when they are few and far between, over the person cheering for losses and then will be "A proper Laker fan", when they start winning again. You enjoy the team and the game and the players decides who wins and who loses. Selling out when the times are tough is bad enough, saying, "it's best for the team", is just a cop out .

But keeping rooting for us to lose, it's making such a big difference on the outcomes of games.

angrypuppy wrote:Some of you act like draft position doesn't matter, and then focus on the correlation of the first overall pick under a previous CBA. That's a poor test as it ignores how this CBA influences the shape of team rosters, and that test ignores the value of high picks. Our last championship teams were led by Shaq, Kobe (1st overall, 13th though that's aberrant as Kobe wouldn't work out with other teams and feinted that he'd play in Europe), and Kobe, Pau and Lamar (13th, 3rd, 4th though Lamar would have been the 2nd pick had he not acted erratic). In other words, the correlation between draft position and key influence on winning a championship seems pretty high based on Laker anecdotal experience.


If you are going to knock me for referencing the old CBA, why is your whole first paragraph referencing the old CBA?

Shaq - Was drafted by a different team and this new CBA restricts player movement, especially players in their 4-5th year (when Shaq left to come here). In the new CBA, Shaq would never had a chance to come here.

Kobe - I think it supports my point of not needing a top 5 pick to win a ring.

Pau/Lamar - Under the new CBA, do we even have a chance at keeping Kobe/Pau/Lamar/Bynum/Fisher and Ariza/MWP?

You are correlating draft position and Lakers success in the old CBA, something that contradicts your very 1st statement. 4 out the 4 players above weren't drafted by the Lakers and the new CBA restricts player movement to make those teams. Barring a ridiculous turn of events, we are 4-5 years from winning another ring, regardless of drafting 1-5 or 5-10. Regardless of where we draft that player isn't going to come out of the gates gunning.

TheOp wrote:
This is exactly right.

I find it funny how Doc Brown keeps referencing other teams and Top 10 picks not panning out. This is a stacked draft that wont come around very often. We have a chance to get a player that COULD help us win a championship and not become a statistic like those other teams.

My point still stands. Some of us are more worried about winning championships and not meaningless regular season games.


Yea, I'm the comedian that's using actual facts to back the claim that drafting 1-5 doesn't bring us any closer to a ring, than drafting 6-10.

This COULD be a stacked draft, we COULD get a nice player, but recent history shows that we are more likely to become a statistic like those other teams.

OKC needed 3 straight nice picks to get to 1 Finals and what do they have to show for it?

You guys are putting way too much stock in this pick being the next best thing. Teams are still trying to build around lottery picks with no luck, teams have gotten a handful of lottery picks with no luck, drafting 3rd or drafting 6th, we are still 4-5 years from contending and that will come from stealing already established players from other teams.

Helljumper wrote:I think his point is that losing games and ending up with a higher draft pick increases our chances of picking a player that can help us win a championship, .


In theory, yes it should. In reality, looking at past drafts, drafting 1-10 is still a crap shoot in getting that player with the difference in percentage of getting that player being minimal at best.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby angrypuppy on Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:05 am

Doc, make up your mind. So if a high pick dives a championship and free agent movement is highly restricted, the logical move is to tank. Just using your premise... but thank you for proving that the tankers are right.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby trodgers on Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:07 am

Not sure how many people in this thread are even trying to get at the truth in argumentation.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby escobar8 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:11 am

i am with abeer and Op on this one...
this win can doesnt mean to much but could hurt us in the long run.
i dont know why many of you underestimate importance of the draft, specialy with new CBA and potentialy how good this draft class could be...
i dont know why do you keep mentioning "when did last time #1 pick lead his team to the championship?"
Thats stupid, couse those teams are usualy very bad teams, from the roster to the managment,thats why they usualy leave and never win, and afcourse some of those drafted become total busts as bargnani,kwame and now bennett.We know what happend when lakers got their #1 picks =showtime, and we were able to do that couse we had great owner, and we were able to atract great players too. We have that ability to do it again, while Cha,Cle,Mil dont.
You have to remind yourself that all players in the league were drafted at some point,the best ones were usualy drafted with high picks,but afcourse there are some exceptions,but % wise higgher pick means better player...
I personaly dont care to much about the #1 pick, but i wish and hope that we might get the top 3, but if we continue this way i wouldnt mind even top 5.
So couple meaningles games could be diference between parker,wiggins,exum or gordon,vonleh,šaric,lavine...
its not just that we could get our next big player on rookie contract, it is that such player could make our team more favorable for future FA.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby khmrP on Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:04 am

was surely a useless win in terms of standings but how can you not enjoy beating Por in Por on a play like that? :jam2:
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby lakerfan2 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:24 am

^ that. It's one win. It's a lottery. Yeah it's preferable to get better odds by losing, but it's nice to win once in awhile especially against teams like the Clippers, @Houston, Boston x2, @Portland. Moral victories. We still have a tough schedule ahead, and I'm sure we've got something up our sleeve if we slip to 6-8. (:cough: Exum)
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:45 am

If you can't enjoy a win in Portland then I have nothing for you. I agree with Doc Brown, we will win a title by stealing established stars. Picking a bust is more likely than getting that impact rookie. You'll never know how good a player until they play in the NBA.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Chillbongo on Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:47 am

Exactly. This isn't going to screw us in terms of draft stock. We have one of the 3 most difficult schedules left in the league. Just be happy we won IN PORTLAND.

Things we did yesterday that have not been consistent this season:

1)Played like a team
2)Played with hustle & effort
3)Played aggressive defense

I'm willing to bet this doesn't last. Just let MDA tweak the lineup one more time or let one more guy come back into the rotation and everything will go out of wack. Like someone said we weren't going to go winless for the rest of the season.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Doc Brown on Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:47 am

angrypuppy wrote:Doc, make up your mind. So if a high pick dives a championship and free agent movement is highly restricted, the logical move is to tank. Just using your premise... but thank you for proving that the tankers are right.


Make up my mind? I already did.

My stance has always been tanking doesn't guarantee you success or a top player, I've said that multiple times. I've shown the past drafts that support that claim.

My premise is that a top 5 pick doesn't guarantee us success and I've stuck by that.

In addition to your false claim that draft position is a key influence in winning championships for the Lakers. We have a team full of lottery picks right now and are 20 games under .500.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Barnstable on Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:50 am

Doc Brown wrote:
unpossibl1 wrote: I can't wait for this season to be over so I can start supporting the Lakers properly again and cheer for wins.


This is one of the more pathetic things I've read in awhile. You do realize you cheering for wins or losses has no impact on the actual outcome of the game? The group that wants us to win has cheered us to 21-39 and those rooting for losses has cheered us to 21-39.

I'd rather be the person cheering for wins, even when they are few and far between, over the person cheering for losses and then will be "A proper Laker fan", when they start winning again. You enjoy the team and the game and the players decides who wins and who loses. Selling out when the times are tough is bad enough, saying, "it's best for the team", is just a cop out .

But keeping rooting for us to lose, it's making such a big difference on the outcomes of games.

angrypuppy wrote:Some of you act like draft position doesn't matter, and then focus on the correlation of the first overall pick under a previous CBA. That's a poor test as it ignores how this CBA influences the shape of team rosters, and that test ignores the value of high picks. Our last championship teams were led by Shaq, Kobe (1st overall, 13th though that's aberrant as Kobe wouldn't work out with other teams and feinted that he'd play in Europe), and Kobe, Pau and Lamar (13th, 3rd, 4th though Lamar would have been the 2nd pick had he not acted erratic). In other words, the correlation between draft position and key influence on winning a championship seems pretty high based on Laker anecdotal experience.


If you are going to knock me for referencing the old CBA, why is your whole first paragraph referencing the old CBA?

Shaq - Was drafted by a different team and this new CBA restricts player movement, especially players in their 4-5th year (when Shaq left to come here). In the new CBA, Shaq would never had a chance to come here.

Kobe - I think it supports my point of not needing a top 5 pick to win a ring.

Pau/Lamar - Under the new CBA, do we even have a chance at keeping Kobe/Pau/Lamar/Bynum/Fisher and Ariza/MWP?

You are correlating draft position and Lakers success in the old CBA, something that contradicts your very 1st statement. 4 out the 4 players above weren't drafted by the Lakers and the new CBA restricts player movement to make those teams. Barring a ridiculous turn of events, we are 4-5 years from winning another ring, regardless of drafting 1-5 or 5-10. Regardless of where we draft that player isn't going to come out of the gates gunning.

TheOp wrote:
This is exactly right.

I find it funny how Doc Brown keeps referencing other teams and Top 10 picks not panning out. This is a stacked draft that wont come around very often. We have a chance to get a player that COULD help us win a championship and not become a statistic like those other teams.

My point still stands. Some of us are more worried about winning championships and not meaningless regular season games.


Yea, I'm the comedian that's using actual facts to back the claim that drafting 1-5 doesn't bring us any closer to a ring, than drafting 6-10.

This COULD be a stacked draft, we COULD get a nice player, but recent history shows that we are more likely to become a statistic like those other teams.

OKC needed 3 straight nice picks to get to 1 Finals and what do they have to show for it?

You guys are putting way too much stock in this pick being the next best thing. Teams are still trying to build around lottery picks with no luck, teams have gotten a handful of lottery picks with no luck, drafting 3rd or drafting 6th, we are still 4-5 years from contending and that will come from stealing already established players from other teams.

Helljumper wrote:I think his point is that losing games and ending up with a higher draft pick increases our chances of picking a player that can help us win a championship, .


In theory, yes it should. In reality, looking at past drafts, drafting 1-10 is still a crap shoot in getting that player with the difference in percentage of getting that player being minimal at best.


Doc said everything I wanted to say and more.

It's a fact. Most players drafted 1 through 5 are not the superstar teams were hoping for. They are more often role players at best. This draft is deeper? That just means 1-8 or 1-10 may be great role players and maybe two super stars. Either way, getting the top pick isn't going to decide it because there is no LeBron in this draft. No one player you can look at as way better than all the others, and a sure bet at the #1 pick.

It's also a fact that many of the top players develop while on their rookie contract and often leave their team once their contract is up, and that time just happens to coincide with when they are ready to lead or be a big factor in winning a championship. Another reason why I'm not enamored by the draft in general.

The above facts should lead you to realize that this draft is probably not the golden calf you are pumping it up to be. We're probably going to get a top 5 or 7 pick. It doesn't really matter which place we draft because as you guys keep reminding us, it's a deep draft. We're probably about as likely to get the best in the draft no matter where we draft this season because it's the best each year is always so random. It's a role of the dice, not even a likely thing basses on draft position. Let's look at the best draft pick each year starting a few years back where we can actually see who's the best in class, and who's been a bust:

2010: John Wall was drafted 1st... Paul George was drafted 10th
2009: Blake Griffin was drafted 1st... Steph Curry was drafted 7th
2008: Derrik Rose was drafted 1st... Kevin Love was drafted 5th
2007: Greg Oden was drafted 1st... Kevin Durant was drafted 2nd
2006: Andre Bargnani was drafted 1st... Lamarkus Aldridge was drafted 2nd... Rajan Rando was drafted 21st
2005: Andrew Bogut was drafted 1st... Deron Williams was drafted 3rd... Chris Paul was drafted 4th

If I'm comparing the No. 1 pick to those that came after it, I go with that second squad all day. That's because the draft is too random to know you have the next superstar just because you get a top pick.

These are facts people. Not opinion. Not hopes and dreams we find the next Kobe or LeBron in this draft. So stop s****ing on Lakers fans joy for a win. You're putting way too much emphasis on getting the top draft pick and being a Debbie Downer to fans that actually want to enjoy their teams wins doesn't get us closer to a championship.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby Doc Brown on Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:56 am

escobar8 wrote:i dont know why do you keep mentioning "when did last time #1 pick lead his team to the championship?"


Did you even read any of my posts besides that one? I've shown a top 5 pick doesn't even guarantee a finals appearance. Not by a long shot.

Thats stupid, couse those teams are usualy very bad teams, from the roster to the managment,thats why they usualy leave and never win, and afcourse some of those drafted become total busts as bargnani,kwame and now bennett.We know what happend when lakers got their #1 picks =showtime, and we were able to do that couse we had great owner, and we were able to atract great players too. We have that ability to do it again, while Cha,Cle,Mil dont.


It's funny that the FO gets blasted for everything these days, but when it comes to this subject, it's a lock we are getting the next generational superstar.

The whole thing you just described is how we got FREE AGENTS, not drafting.

In this lottery era, there are teams that have had multiple picks and are still in the lottery. There are teams that have done it absolutely perfect (OKC) and still have nothing to show for it.

You guys are putting way too much stock in these players and for people to keep saying this drafted it stacked, we can't miss on any pick is just wrong.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby abeer3 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:02 am

i liken watching the lakers win this year to getting really drunk. i enjoy it immensely in the moment, then feel terrible afterwards.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby therealdeal on Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:31 am

I don't feel terrible at all and Doc is 100% right.

Tanking doesn't work and these players are trying their hardest in purple and gold uniforms. Are any of you athletes? I'm not talking down to anyone, I'm genuinely curious. Have any of you played professionally? Semi-professionally? Any organized ball at all?

Do any of you guys understand the torture these players are going through having potentially the worst Laker season in franchise history attached to their names? They want to win games and I love them for that. Any watching that game last night HAD to have had a good time. They HAD to have. It was a great game, exciting, and we beat a good team. Put the thought of these phantom college players out of your mind for a minute and enjoy the team playing well together. THAT'S what we should want to see anyway. No one should WANT to watch losers play basketball. Nobody. That's not what winners want to see.

I understand wanting a great pick, I do too. That doesn't mean I can't put that on hold when the team plays a GREAT game. They beat Sacramento by breaking a record amount of threes. They beat the TRAILBLAZERS by going into their house and out working them. The fact that some people can't enjoy that really makes me question the way you support a team.

This next player we get in the draft probably won't help us win a Championship. Doc laid out the facts in front of you guys. We all want a great player in this draft but the truth is there's usually 1 really transcendent player every 10 years. Is one of those guys in this draft? Probably not. There's usually 2-3 great players in the draft and usually they're not even in the top 5 when it's all said and done. The LIKELIHOOD of getting a HIGH DRAFT PICK rises with each loss. The LIKELIHOOD of getting a TRANSFORMATIONAL player in this draft low REGARDLESS of our draft position.

I'd rather this team go out and work their butts off every night and see what happens. When you try to manipulate an outcome of pure chance, you usually work against yourself. These guys will lose more games than they win from here on out and since that's true, I'd like to see them lose with some fire and fight in them. Go down swinging. These guys owe NOTHING to our draft position. They're playing for the careers either in LA or out of it. I'm with them. F*** trying to lose. That's for lesser teams and lesser fan bases.
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Re: Tank Talk: what to do, who to sign, where we draft?

Postby escobar8 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:34 am

Doc Brown wrote:
escobar8 wrote:i dont know why do you keep mentioning "when did last time #1 pick lead his team to the championship?"


Did you even read any of my posts besides that one? I've shown a top 5 pick doesn't even guarantee a finals appearance. Not by a long shot.

Thats stupid, couse those teams are usualy very bad teams, from the roster to the managment,thats why they usualy leave and never win, and afcourse some of those drafted become total busts as bargnani,kwame and now bennett.We know what happend when lakers got their #1 picks =showtime, and we were able to do that couse we had great owner, and we were able to atract great players too. We have that ability to do it again, while Cha,Cle,Mil dont.


It's funny that the FO gets blasted for everything these days, but when it comes to this subject, it's a lock we are getting the next generational superstar.




The whole thing you just described is how we got FREE AGENTS, not drafting.

In this lottery era, there are teams that have had multiple picks and are still in the lottery. There are teams that have done it absolutely perfect (OKC) and still have nothing to show for it.

You guys are putting way too much stock in these players and for people to keep saying this drafted it stacked, we can't miss on any pick is just wrong.



i am probably stupid couse i still havent learned how to quote just one part of the text...
i agree with you to some degree,draft is like box of chocolate and in 98% you are never sure what you will get...
it is true that we could get top pick and draft some bust or later some injury prone player,or that we could get better player with 6pick or even 20th pick...
but odds of drafting potentialy franchise or all star or very good player are much bigger with higher pick...
on other side couple wins are absolutly meaningles and could hurt us in the long run...
if we already gamble in the draft i would rather gamble with better cards...
and i btw tell me how did couple #1 pan out for lakers franchise 30ish years ago...i guess it had huge impact on our future...so you cant look on draft like it is irelevant...
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