Rebuild Rhetoric: Randle = Step #1, Step #2 = Lin, #3?

Rebuild Rhetoric: Randle = Step #1, Step #2 = Lin, #3?

Postby TheOp on Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:10 am

Realistically speaking this team is not going to win a championship this year. Injuries or not, were 12 in the Western Conference right now. If we are going to miss the playoffs, we should go for a solid draft pick. If we get a solid young player we could actually become a contender. If we can have a roster like this

Farmar
Kobe
Johnson
Young
Hill
Blake
Kaman
Lottery PIck
Free agent

We could potentially trade that draft pick for a proven star as well. We could make a quick turn around by tanking.
Image
TheOp

 
Posts: 2139
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:51 pm
Location: SoCAL

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby odom1year on Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:35 am

No. I agree to tank too. In fact, Kobe and Lakers are done for this season.
odom1year

 
Posts: 3387
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:33 pm

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:34 am

Too many terrible Leastern teams to expect to finish with one of the worst records ...

We don't need to voluntary tank , we're not very good ... expect us to finish between 10th and 12th in the West ... so a 13th to 11th pick is likely ( tough to imagine any of the 7 non Leastern playoffs team finishing with a better record than us) .

In this deep draft , this 12th ish pick is going to be more valuable than a meaningless 1st round exit .

WE CANNOT TRADE OUR 2014 PICK
wcsoldier81

 
Posts: 6427
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:20 am

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby Damian Necronamous on Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:07 am

Completely agree that we should tank.

Jabari Parker
Andrew Wiggins
Julius Randle
Marcus Smart
Dante Exum
Joel Embiid

Any one of the above six is a potential franchise-changer. I'd also say that Aaron Gordon, Noah Vonleh and Willie Cauley-Stein are sure to be difference-makers in the league, but I don't think they have the same All-Star type potential as the above.

A lot of others like Dario Saric and Zach LaVine, but I haven't seen enough of them to really comment.

Regardless, my point is that we'll get more out of being a bottom 6 team this season that we will out of being a top 16 team. I'm all aboard the tank train, and I'm pulling for Parker.
Damian Necronamous

 
Posts: 769
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:35 pm

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby juninho on Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:17 am

Lottery: 1. Bucks 6-23 | 2. Jazz 9-23 | 3. 76ers 8-20 | 4. Kings 8-19 | 5. Knicks 9-20 | 5. Magic 9-20 | 7. Nets 10-19 | 8. Cavaliers 10-18 | 9. Bulls 11-16 | 10. Grizzlies 12-16 | 11. Lakers 13-17 | 12. Pelicans 13-14 | 13. T'Wolves 14-15 | 14. Nuggets 14-14

with marc gasol grizz will get better record also cavs will probably win more than lakers due to being at east if irving doesn't get hurt ofcourse. Too bad rose and lopez got hurt, i am not sure if they won more thn lakers. Also Knicks is a mess. Hopefully Kings getting better.

Imo at best we can get 5th place, worst is 10th.
User avatar
juninho

 
Posts: 772
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:04 am

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby noobiew on Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:00 am

With Kobe suffers injury this season, Pau half-time playing, Nash looks done and MDA at the helm, playoffs seem out of reach for us at the moment (I want 6 seed), the Lakers would be fool not to make themselves in play for one of the most deep draft in the NBA history since 2003.

Today loss give us closer and closer to Parker, Wiggins, Smart, Exum, Randle or Embiid. We finally able to get one of them and draft our own Paul George, Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis, yikes !
Michael Jordan : "My Chicago team are the all-time greatest"
Magic Johnson : "Put me with Kareem, James Worthy, Cooper and Byron Scott, and we'd dominate your Bulls team"
User avatar
noobiew

 
Posts: 5564
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:55 am

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby cthroatgtr on Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:12 am

This is the year to suck...since they still have this pick. Why they didn't trade Pau when they had the chance is beyond me. Why they gave Kobe all that money is another head scratcher. D'Antoni is another head scratcher. Nash trade was beyond stupid. Getting Nash was a worth while gamble, but only if you don't give up all those picks. 2 number 1s? OMG what were they thinking. Let's be honest, the FO has been lost for years. Took Kobe threatening wanting a trade for them to pick up Pau, otherwise they really have done very few good moves.
cthroatgtr

 
Posts: 2350
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:06 pm
Location: so cal

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby Azndude2190 on Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:06 am

I only see one head scratcher of all the ones you mentioned and even then, it's a sorta kinda situation.

The Nash trade is a case of hindsight being 20/20. At the time, I didn't really recall people being outraged over giving up draft picks for a former league MVP and probably one of the top point guards of all time. I include my self in that camp. From what I remember, people were saying it was Mitch working his magic wand. Obviously now it was a horrible trade because 1) Nash is a completely useless player as a result of his injury and age and 2) we gave up draft picks, which are more of a commodity to us now, in "rebuilding" mode, than it was before, when we were in a "win now and care about the future later" mode.

MDA as a head coach made sense because, well let's face it, Jim Buss is running things now and has a massive ego. And Phil Jackson was never really going to come back with his medical problems and age and clearly management wanted to break from the triangle offense, in favor of a more up-tempo, run and gun offense that is exciting to watch. Plus, MDA has a knack for inflating player stats and is a perfect coach during our rebuilding phase.

Giving Kobe the 24 million made sense because 1) you weren't going to get the 1 or 2 FAs that would launch the team into instant title contention and 2) the organization wanted to remain loyal to their marquee superstar player and show the rest of the league how it treats its best player.

So that leaves not trading Pau as the only head scratcher IMO, all the rest made sense theoretically at the time.
A deep man, believes that the evil eye can wither, that the heart's blessing can heal, and that love can overcome all odds.

-Ralph Waldo Emerson
User avatar
Azndude2190

 
Posts: 5531
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:23 am
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby lukewaltonsdad on Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:59 am

We're not very good...tanking will 'just happen.' We'll get a nice prospect who can hopefully be developed in a borderline All-Star and go from there.
lukewaltonsdad

 
Posts: 786
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:14 am

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby raviator on Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:12 am

Azndude2190 wrote:I only see one head scratcher of all the ones you mentioned and even then, it's a sorta kinda situation.

The Nash trade is a case of hindsight being 20/20. At the time, I didn't really recall people being outraged over giving up draft picks for a former league MVP and probably one of the top point guards of all time. I include my self in that camp. From what I remember, people were saying it was Mitch working his magic wand. Obviously now it was a horrible trade because 1) Nash is a completely useless player as a result of his injury and age and 2) we gave up draft picks, which are more of a commodity to us now, in "rebuilding" mode, than it was before, when we were in a "win now and care about the future later" mode.

MDA as a head coach made sense because, well let's face it, Jim Buss is running things now and has a massive ego. And Phil Jackson was never really going to come back with his medical problems and age and clearly management wanted to break from the triangle offense, in favor of a more up-tempo, run and gun offense that is exciting to watch. Plus, MDA has a knack for inflating player stats and is a perfect coach during our rebuilding phase.

Giving Kobe the 24 million made sense because 1) you weren't going to get the 1 or 2 FAs that would launch the team into instant title contention and 2) the organization wanted to remain loyal to their marquee superstar player and show the rest of the league how it treats its best player.

So that leaves not trading Pau as the only head scratcher IMO, all the rest made sense theoretically at the time.


In all fairness Pau was traded, but we all know what happened there. In a perfect world, we could have been looking at a lineup of Howard, Paul, and a healthy Kobe. I say healthy because with Paul, some of the load to score and make plays would have been taken off of him thus preventing him from having to expend so much energy thus maybe saving him from tearing his achilles. Who knows.
Nash was the consolation prize and it was a good move. I still think it was. The only reason it looks bad now is because of one freak play . If Damien hits Nash an inch above or below the point of contact, we may be looking at a very different Nash right now. But it is what it is.
I personally do not want to tank. To me it just sends a bad message that right now the team is giving up. I know it may be just me, but I don't care how much the odds are stacked against them, I still want them to compete and try to win games. Thant being said, given the talent that they are going against, especially in the western conference, I am resigned to the fact that they will be a lottery team this coming draft. And with the talent coming into the draft, I'm okay with that.
User avatar
raviator

 
Posts: 514
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:00 am
Location: East Coast

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby earvinfr on Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:18 am

Bynum was selected #10. That was a smart pick but he was only able to contribute in his 3rd year. Can Kobe wait 3 years to have an all star caliber player on his team ?
Offseason's finished for my long sleeping nights. NBA is back !!
earvinfr

 
Posts: 2313
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: France

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby Rooscooter on Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:08 am

Tanking for what? The value of top picks in the NBA is a crap shoot at best. My guess is that we will pick for someone else anyway and trade for who we really want in a larger deal.

We have shown that we don't really value the draft or developing players in the last decade or so. I'm not sure the mindset has changed.... We're still swinging for the fences in trades and FA to rebuild....... Plan C will be the draft.
"If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

“The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present - and is gravely to be regarded." Dwight Eisenhower

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it" Thomas Sowell
User avatar
Rooscooter

 
Posts: 23021
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:25 pm
Location: Chandler AZ and Andalué

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby LakersN4 on Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:20 am

Rooscooter wrote:Tanking for what? The value of top picks in the NBA is a crap shoot at best. My guess is that we will pick for someone else anyway and trade for who we really want in a larger deal.

We have shown that we don't really value the draft or developing players in the last decade or so. I'm not sure the mindset has changed.... We're still swinging for the fences in trades and FA to rebuild....... Plan C will be the draft.

I could see a sign & trade of Hill + our 1st for a more established player going down for sure..
LakersN4

 
Posts: 2530
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:55 am

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby Barnstable on Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:02 am

Where's that image of Captain Picard with a face palm when you need it :bang:

Honestly, I think the suggestion is disgusting.

First and foremost, have some pride in your freaking team. Have some pride in the organization. The Lakers as a franchise is one of if not the most storied in all of sports.... and some of you want to do some bush league, chicken s***, ineffective (cause tanking doesn't seem to work), BS move like tanking? Next let's tell Pringles he should spill his soda on the court to buy some extra time to draw up a play like Kidd did. It's all the same right? A win is a win right :man11: No the Lakers play the game to win.... we are not the Clippers franchise... even after Jerry Buss has died.

Second, we could have a couple of 12 year olds play in our front court and we still might not be a bad as those Leastern conference teams. The best team in the Atlantic division right now is 12-15. That is the BEST in the division. The worst in the east is 6-23. A total of three teams have winning records. The east is terrible. Some teams are tanking on purpose, and others are just terrible because. We are not going to be able to fail as hard as these teams that fail for a living. We would be trying to imitate professional fail masters. Teams that fail without even trying. Teams that could fail more in one day than the Lakers could in a decade.
"league getting mitch-slapped"
User avatar
Barnstable
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 14381
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:01 pm
Location: Queens NY

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby Rooscooter on Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:10 am

LakersN4 wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:Tanking for what? The value of top picks in the NBA is a crap shoot at best. My guess is that we will pick for someone else anyway and trade for who we really want in a larger deal.

We have shown that we don't really value the draft or developing players in the last decade or so. I'm not sure the mindset has changed.... We're still swinging for the fences in trades and FA to rebuild....... Plan C will be the draft.

I could see a sign & trade of Hill + our 1st for a more established player going down for sure..


I don't think webcam trade the pick before the draft, but I don't think we are restricted from trading the player we draft after we make the pick.

We'll see.... We have a ton of rebuilding to do and a top 10 pick isn't going to get us in the finals in Kobe's window no matter how good he is.
"If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

“The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present - and is gravely to be regarded." Dwight Eisenhower

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it" Thomas Sowell
User avatar
Rooscooter

 
Posts: 23021
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:25 pm
Location: Chandler AZ and Andalué

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:22 am

yes, the Lakers don't tank otherwise, we will be the clippers
"Allons-y Lakers!"
User avatar
KareemTheGreat33

 
Posts: 7827
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:52 am
Location: Philippines

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby LakersN4 on Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:40 am

Rooscooter wrote:
LakersN4 wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:Tanking for what? The value of top picks in the NBA is a crap shoot at best. My guess is that we will pick for someone else anyway and trade for who we really want in a larger deal.

We have shown that we don't really value the draft or developing players in the last decade or so. I'm not sure the mindset has changed.... We're still swinging for the fences in trades and FA to rebuild....... Plan C will be the draft.

I could see a sign & trade of Hill + our 1st for a more established player going down for sure..


I don't think webcam trade the pick before the draft, but I don't think we are restricted from trading the player we draft after we make the pick.

We'll see.... We have a ton of rebuilding to do and a top 10 pick isn't going to get us in the finals in Kobe's window no matter how good he is.
You are correct we can't trade the pick until after we select the player. That's why I suggested packaging it with a sign & trade of Hill, who is likely to get offered more than we can afford to spend on a role player without the stars needed to contend already in place. I've seen fans of other teams posting that they hope their FO offers Hill a deal starting around 7-9M.. If we give him that type of money we can kiss any shot at Melo, Monroe, or Bledsoe goodbye.
LakersN4

 
Posts: 2530
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:55 am

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby Barnstable on Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:17 pm

KareemTheGreat33 wrote:yes, the Lakers don't tank otherwise, we will be the clippers

we won't be the clippers, but if you imitate failure you will fail.
"league getting mitch-slapped"
User avatar
Barnstable
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 14381
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:01 pm
Location: Queens NY

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:52 pm

I would hope to God you are the only one. I honestly, with no disrespect intended, question anyone who is a Lakers fan who suggest we tank. Can we have bad years? sure. More losses than we would like? Sure. Not play our best on every night? FK NO! If we win 15 games all season I still expect our team to play 100% each and every night. Tanking is for teams without pride. The Lakers should never be considered a team without pirde.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
User avatar
puffyusaf#2

 
Posts: 30604
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:15 pm
Location: Chasing the dream to an Oscar

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby 432J on Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:42 pm

why would they tank?

this is the lakers. they sign franchise players away from other teams, what the hell is tanking?
Image
User avatar
432J

 
Posts: 4786
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Sherbrooke, Quebec

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby LTLakerFan on Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:04 pm

Silly thread title. The crappy record is happening organically with all the injuries and even with the players trying. Why do people feel some formal plan to DO this is necessary. :bang:
LTLakerFan

 
Posts: 6444
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:44 pm
Location: SoCal

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby LTLakerFan on Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:06 pm

odom1year wrote:No. I agree to tank too. In fact, Kobe and Lakers are done for this season.


Just as silly as the OP. But then what else to expect from you.
LTLakerFan

 
Posts: 6444
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:44 pm
Location: SoCal

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby Doc Brown on Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:37 pm

Tanking doesn't guarantee you good players, scouting and putting in the time to distinguish the duds, from the over-hyped and the actual gems of the draft get you the good players.

Plenty of good players go between 9-15. For every Anthony Bennett drafted in the top 3, there is a Paul George waiting to prove the doubters wrong at 9-13.

2013 - #1 Anthony Bennett...............#11 Michael Carter Williams
2012 - #2 MIchael Kidd Gilchrist............#9 Andre Drummond
2011 - #2 Derrick Williams...........#15 Kawhi Leonard, #16 Nikola Vucevic, #11 Klay Thompson
2010 - #3 Derrick Favors............#10 Paul George
2009 - #2 Hasheem Thabeet.......#17 Jrue Holiday, #18 Ty Lawson
2008 - #2 Michael Beasley.........#17 Roy Hibbert
2007 - #1 Greg Oden...............#48 Marc Gasol, #16 Swaggy P ( :man12: )
2006 - #1 Andrea Bargnani.........#21 Rajon Rondo

It's not always about where you draft, it's about what you draft.
Rule of Thumb at ClubLakers - Never encourage people to check your post history.
User avatar
Doc Brown

 
Posts: 19455
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:11 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby LTLakerFan on Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:08 pm

Thank you. Game, set, match!
LTLakerFan

 
Posts: 6444
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:44 pm
Location: SoCal

Re: Am I the only one that wants to tank?

Postby nduri on Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:45 pm

Doc Brown wrote:Tanking doesn't guarantee you good players, scouting and putting in the time to distinguish the duds, from the over-hyped and the actual gems of the draft get you the good players.

Plenty of good players go between 9-15. For every Anthony Bennett drafted in the top 3, there is a Paul George waiting to prove the doubters wrong at 9-13.

2013 - #1 Anthony Bennett...............#11 Michael Carter Williams
2012 - #2 MIchael Kidd Gilchrist............#9 Andre Drummond
2011 - #2 Derrick Williams...........#15 Kawhi Leonard, #16 Nikola Vucevic, #11 Klay Thompson
2010 - #3 Derrick Favors............#10 Paul George
2009 - #2 Hasheem Thabeet.......#17 Jrue Holiday, #18 Ty Lawson
2008 - #2 Michael Beasley.........#17 Roy Hibbert
2007 - #1 Greg Oden...............#48 Marc Gasol, #16 Swaggy P ( :man12: )
2006 - #1 Andrea Bargnani.........#21 Rajon Rondo

It's not always about where you draft, it's about what you draft.


None of these top picks were Laker picks (we seem to do pretty well with our early picks, on the very few occasions that we had them). I'm not suggesting that we tank, I do suggest that the best we can really do this season is probably take more games off Kobe's career, get an 8 seed and possibly get swept with the injuries we have had. Why not get our younger players as much court time as possible (particularly those who we aren't considering resigning) raise their value and add them to a Pau Gasol trade and return some assets (possibly even a fairly early 2015 pick) talent for cheap. This is potentially the deepest draft in a long time, we can position ourselves for the 2015 and/or the 2016 free agent markets, miss the playoffs this year and field a playoff team next season and in 2006 set ourselves for contention again. We have to think "Dynasty" and sometimes there are sacrifices ie. trading Shaq...This idea that we don't develop young talent possibly worked in the past, but with these new salary cap rules, we have to think differently.
Back at'cha 24-7
User avatar
nduri

 
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:52 pm

Next

Return to Lakers Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Azndude2190 and 21 guests

cron
Advertise Here | Privacy Policy | ©2008 Sculu Sports. Come Strong.