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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby easyguy on Tue May 22, 2012 2:54 pm

The league is not dumb and blind, they know of Bynum's lack of self control and two bum knees. His potential has a limit. He's 25, not 18. What you see now is what you are going to get, maybe a few more points at his prime, but that is it.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby khmrP on Tue May 22, 2012 2:58 pm

Ariza3 wrote:i dont understand players like kobe. if he wants his 6th ring so badly and wants to win, then he needs to surround himself with a bunch of good players....thus the lakers need more cap room to sign players. kobe contract is massive...since hes already like a billionaire why not ask for less money and give the lakers fo more $ to work with instead of having to pay kobe 30+ mill

if i were kobe and wanted my 6th ring so badly...id be like "im alrady loaded, so if its possible lets make my contract for less and that way you guys (front office) have more $ to sign other good players and then i will have a better chance of winning"

one thing i liked about the heat big 3 thing is they all took pay cuts to play together bc otherwise it would never have worked. sometimes you have to give a little to get something...wish it were possible for kobe to give up his massive contract for something reasonable and help his team get way better by doing so.

thats what i would do at his age and time left in the league and all the $ hes already made + all the endorsement money...his contract money is nothing compared to all the other stuff he does.



this contract was an ext. from several years ago, he was still in his prime. People dont sign contract thinking bout how it'll affect their teams future. The big 3 of Mia took measly paycuts which was off-set anyways with low income taxes of Flo and that was hardly going to kill their deal to go to Mia so your statement is misleading with or w/o the taking less they were all going to Mia regardless, LA has one of the higher incomes taxes in the states.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby eltoro on Tue May 22, 2012 3:00 pm

WOW! Huge news!

Check this video out...
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7958980

Skip and Stephen A debating whether or not Bynum gets traded. At one point, Stephen A suggesting that one appropriate deal not involving Dwight Howard would be Deron Williams and Brook Lopez. However, Skip thinks Bynum has more value than both those guys. The interesting thing is that Stephen A is very connected, and in-the-know with a lot of players, agents, etc. He truly is one of the guys who has legit insider info, particularly in New York.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby Ariza3 on Tue May 22, 2012 3:01 pm

khmrP wrote:
Ariza3 wrote:i dont understand players like kobe. if he wants his 6th ring so badly and wants to win, then he needs to surround himself with a bunch of good players....thus the lakers need more cap room to sign players. kobe contract is massive...since hes already like a billionaire why not ask for less money and give the lakers fo more $ to work with instead of having to pay kobe 30+ mill

if i were kobe and wanted my 6th ring so badly...id be like "im alrady loaded, so if its possible lets make my contract for less and that way you guys (front office) have more $ to sign other good players and then i will have a better chance of winning"

one thing i liked about the heat big 3 thing is they all took pay cuts to play together bc otherwise it would never have worked. sometimes you have to give a little to get something...wish it were possible for kobe to give up his massive contract for something reasonable and help his team get way better by doing so.

thats what i would do at his age and time left in the league and all the $ hes already made + all the endorsement money...his contract money is nothing compared to all the other stuff he does.



this contract was an ext. from several years ago, he was still in his prime. People dont sign contract thinking bout how it'll affect their teams future. The big 3 of Mia took measly paycuts which was off-set anyways with low income taxes of Flo and that was hardly going to kill their deal to go to Mia so your statement is misleading with or w/o the taking less they were all going to Mia regardless, LA has one of the higher incomes taxes in the states.


idk about state taxes and stuff but for sure the miami big 3 would have taken bigger paycuts to play together. i just dont know if it is possible if he could now do something about his contract amount. i dont know about that stuff, but if there was a way idk why kobe wouldnt do it.

kobe contract extension was in 2010 for 3 years 90mill. like really? hell make 32 mill when hes 35. pretty sure lakers fo could have made it for less and he still would have sign. he wasnt in his prime 2010 he was 30 and could have asked for less $ if it helped him get rings. im just saying not saying he should have but i would think he should think like that at this stage in his career and all he wants is a 6th ring. thats all
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby easyguy on Tue May 22, 2012 3:05 pm

Kobe's wife or future ex wife will take half of his money so you must take that into consideration too.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby Ariza3 on Tue May 22, 2012 3:07 pm

easyguy wrote:Kobe's wife or future ex wife will take half of his money so you must take that into consideration too.


true. i was just wondering how that stuff works and if players can change the contract amount just to help FO sign more players for more $.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby Ariza3 on Tue May 22, 2012 3:08 pm

A source who has spoken with Howard recently said the All-Star center desperately wants to be traded prior to the start of next season.

And although the Brooklyn Nets are still considered the frontrunner, “it is not going to be a one-horse race,” the source said, listing the Mavericks, Knicks and — to a lesser degree — the Clippers and Lakers as among the destinations that would appeal to Howard.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby LakerFan1235 on Tue May 22, 2012 3:10 pm

Lebron, Wade, and Bosh didn't really take that much less money. That is a phony myth IMO. Florida doesn't tax like Cali does.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby Ludachris on Tue May 22, 2012 3:19 pm

eltoro wrote:Unfortunately, Bynum has the most trade value. He is young, and his potential is limitless. The only way we get an all-star package is if we get lucky and the trading partners get equal or greater value....OR, if we include Bynum.

And no. No way in hell do we trade one of the top two centers in the game today for Deron Williams alone. Bynum is younger, has more upside, and is a top 2 player at his position. Deron Williams is a top 5-7 player at his own position.

Bynum might be the 2nd best center in the league but he has far more risk than Williams has. And I think Williams is in the discussion for the top 3 PG in the league, not top 5. And the PG position is coveted more than center these days, so it would be an even trade due to Bynum's attitude and injury history. If we could get a decent big in return or some bench depth along with Williams I'd say jump on that deal quick.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby eltoro on Tue May 22, 2012 3:20 pm

Ariza3 wrote:A source who has spoken with Howard recently said the All-Star center desperately wants to be traded prior to the start of next season.

And although the Brooklyn Nets are still considered the frontrunner, “it is not going to be a one-horse race,” the source said, listing the Mavericks, Knicks and — to a lesser degree — the Clippers and Lakers as among the destinations that would appeal to Howard.



The Mavs and Knicks can't even offer anyone better than Gasol. Seriously, Mavs stated that they aren't parting with Dirk, and the Knicks have made Melo their franchise player. Orlando might be able to get Amare and one or tow role players, but that's about it. Howard looks screwed again if he really does want out before the next season.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby Ludachris on Tue May 22, 2012 3:23 pm

eltoro wrote:WOW! Huge news!

Check this video out...
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7958980

Skip and Stephen A debating whether or not Bynum gets traded. At one point, Stephen A suggesting that one appropriate deal not involving Dwight Howard would be Deron Williams and Brook Lopez. However, Skip thinks Bynum has more value than both those guys. The interesting thing is that Stephen A is very connected, and in-the-know with a lot of players, agents, etc. He truly is one of the guys who has legit insider info, particularly in New York.

I thought Lopez was a restricted F/A this summer? How can he be traded? I'd go for that deal in a heartbeat... a top 5 center in return and a top 3 PG? Take Bynum and his inconsistency. Hell, throw in something good like Glock or Ebanks to make it happen.

I don't want Howard. Let someone else have that drama queen. We have enough drama in LA. I'd rather trade Gasol for a solid SF and picks/cap relief assuming the trade above happened.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby eltoro on Tue May 22, 2012 3:43 pm

Everybody is saying that Bynum is a top 2 center. In return, DWills is a top 5-7 PG. We need more if we are giving up Bynum.

CP3, Derrick Rose, Rondo, Westbrook, tony Parker, all rate higher than Deron Williams at th PG position. Nobody rates higher than Bynum at center, except for maybe Dwight Howard today.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby venky on Tue May 22, 2012 3:48 pm

I'd take D Will over that chucker Rose and Westbrick, but that's just me.

But our bench needs help. We should try to get OJ Mayo and/or Beasley.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby denimPortugal on Tue May 22, 2012 3:57 pm

venky wrote:I'd take D Will over that chucker Rose and Westbrick, but that's just me.

But our bench needs help. We should try to get OJ Mayo and/or Beasley.

Agree! But I am a huge fan of DWill!

And yes, OJ\Beas would be great for our bench!
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby Ariza3 on Tue May 22, 2012 3:58 pm

@KevinDing: Devin Ebanks will be a restricted free agent. About meeting today with Kupchak & Brown, Ebanks said: "They seemed pretty interested in me."
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby eltoro on Tue May 22, 2012 4:03 pm

venky wrote:I'd take D Will over that chucker Rose and Westbrick, but that's just me.

But our bench needs help. We should try to get OJ Mayo and/or Beasley.



Come on! Deron is a top PG, but nobody in their right mind would take Deron Williams over Derrick Rose or Westbrook. Forget Westbrook, he is still in the playoffs, Rose and Deron Williams are not.

D. Wills has led his Nets team to what? A high draft pick in the draft? They didn't even come close to sniffing the playoffs. Derrick Rose led his team in scoring, assists, won the league MVP and the NBA's best record. And you want Deron Williams over Derrick Rose?!!?!?!
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby Nashty Gal on Tue May 22, 2012 4:04 pm

All these celebs that love the lakers so much need to start paying some players under the table, so we don't have to worry about CBA bullshiz :man12:
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby Ludachris on Tue May 22, 2012 4:15 pm

Didn't the Bulls want Gasol at some point? Think they'd be willing to trade Deng and Hamilton for him? Maybe throw in Glock too?

Bynum for Deron Williams and Brook Lopez?

Amnesty Artest?

We'd get some better depth at SG and an upgrade at SF and a huge upgrade at PG with a drop off at C and PF. But we'd be much more athletic and could develop Ebanks, Sessions, and Hill. Probably need another big man, but maybe we can get someone at mini MLE.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby Ludachris on Tue May 22, 2012 4:16 pm

eltoro wrote:Everybody is saying that Bynum is a top 2 center. In return, DWills is a top 5-7 PG. We need more if we are giving up Bynum.

CP3, Derrick Rose, Rondo, Westbrook, tony Parker, all rate higher than Deron Williams at th PG position. Nobody rates higher than Bynum at center, except for maybe Dwight Howard today.

Top 2 center with a history of knee injuries and obvious attitude issues, and inconsistent play. Thankfully he was an all star though, which will increase his trade value.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby Texas Lakers Fan on Tue May 22, 2012 4:17 pm

Bynum isn't going anywhere. Pau is a gone for sure though.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby Ludachris on Tue May 22, 2012 4:18 pm

eltoro wrote:
venky wrote:I'd take D Will over that chucker Rose and Westbrick, but that's just me.

But our bench needs help. We should try to get OJ Mayo and/or Beasley.



Come on! Deron is a top PG, but nobody in their right mind would take Deron Williams over Derrick Rose or Westbrook. Forget Westbrook, he is still in the playoffs, Rose and Deron Williams are not.

D. Wills has led his Nets team to what? A high draft pick in the draft? They didn't even come close to sniffing the playoffs. Derrick Rose led his team in scoring, assists, won the league MVP and the NBA's best record. And you want Deron Williams over Derrick Rose?!!?!?!

So are the Sixers and the Pacers, would you take either of their PG's over Williams? That point doesn't prove anything. Williams is on a terrible team riddled with injuries.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby GNC on Tue May 22, 2012 4:19 pm

If that Deron Williams AND Brook Lopez trade ever ended up on the table for only Bynum you could bet your house that Mitch would pull the trigger. He'd be crazy not to.

Maybe I am reading what Skip said wrong though? Is he saying Deron or Brook Lopez?
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby Ludachris on Tue May 22, 2012 4:25 pm

GNC wrote:If that Deron Williams AND Brook Lopez trade ever ended up on the table for only Bynum you could bet your house that Mitch would pull the trigger. He'd be crazy not to.

Maybe I am reading what Skip said wrong though? Is he saying Deron or Brook Lopez?

He's saying both. I'd pull the trigger too, but again, isn't Lopez a F/A this summer?
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby eltoro on Tue May 22, 2012 4:32 pm

GNC wrote:If that Deron Williams AND Brook Lopez trade ever ended up on the table for only Bynum you could bet your house that Mitch would pull the trigger. He'd be crazy not to.

Maybe I am reading what Skip said wrong though? Is he saying Deron or Brook Lopez?


Check the link in the video posted somewhere above, either this page or the one before. Stephen A thinks it would be a good trade, but Skip doesn't buy that the Lakers can get fair value for Bynum, who he thinks is better than a package deal of DWills and Lopez. Hey, I didn't say it. Just check the video. Interesting Stephen A Smith's take on this as he is definitely connected to some inside info around the league.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby eltoro on Tue May 22, 2012 4:36 pm

Ludachris, you should have heard Michael Wilbon and Tony Kornheiser on ESPN this afternoon
They both agreed that Bynum was better offensively, and continues to improve offensively, than Dwight Howard. However, they did say that Howard was better defensively and impacted the game more than Bynum. Both also agreed that Howard is a terrible free throw shooter that cannot be counted on late in games. And here is the kicker, they both said that as immature as Bynum is, Howard is a lot more immature. End result, at least for upside... Bynum > Howard.

And no. DWills is still a top PG, but not better than Derrick Rose or the other names I mentioned. I give you that he is better than the Sixers starting PG.
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