Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Big Mamma Jamma wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:Nice write up but you kind of lost me Minny's reasons for doing this.... Do you think anyone in the league that has access to video thinks Pau is still a "legit Post Presence"?

I'm not sure we could get rid of Pau unless we take back a big ugly contract and a decent player and a pick or two at this point.... he's 7 million dollars in value in a 19 million dollar wrapper right now. Next year he will be a lot more valuable but I'm not so sure this year.....

Minny wanted Gasol and tried to trade Derrick Williams to the Bobcats for the 2nd pick to entice the Lakers. I know many on this board are not high on Gasol but the guy still performs and under Adelman, whose system is a better fit, Gasol could really do well.

Here's an article talking about Minny's interest over the summer. This is pure speculation on my part but I don't think anything has changed. I would imagine that they, meaning the T-Wolves brass, think that Gasol is in the wrong system and could do quite well in Adelman's system.

You could be right..... I'd love that trade but it seems that ownership changed their minds last year when they couldn't get what they thought was equal value for him. If Lowry, Scola and Martin were not equal what do they think is?

Houston and Minny have shown interest in the past. Anything that could shake loose Chandler Parsons from Houston would be welcome if we're throwing out wish lists.....

Ryan Anderson is a great player. He can reaaally stroke the 3 and he's an underrated rebounder. If Pau keeps sucking even after Nash comes back & we can't find a solid package like that Minny one, then by all means, PULL THE TRIGGER

I can't believe no one has come up with something with Utah yet. They have FOUR talented big men in Enas Kanter (who has a jumper, girth, and length, reminds me of bynum, seriously), Derrick Favors (CRAZY athletic, some range as well, size and long arms), and Al jefferson, and Paul Milsap. I have no reason why kanter and favors are coming off the bench, because their potential is CLEARLY greater than milsap and jefferson. But those two are veterans and also talented as well. So utah is in a bit of a pinch there.

Thats why i'm thinking that there HAS to be some way we can get Jefferson off their hands, even if it might not necessarily be an even trade for them because they have THREE other quality young big men to fall back on, lol. And jeffersons is soooo underrated. I tell people this all the time. Lol, his mid range is top notch, and his post game might only take a back seat to gasol and randolph. If we can get him, i'll jump for joy.

I don't think we should go after Anderson if it's just him. Tawn can do a fine job as our stretch 4. Barring someone giving up some better pieces than Anderson, I think Pau is here for the remainder of the season. If he plays really well when Nash returns, they might sell high at the deadline. I would.

Ariza3 wrote:gotta wait until Nash is back to decide on gasol imo

This is what I think I think Mitch is doing. Pau can be effective, just limit his minutes as a whole, and keep him and Dwight from playing at the same time for long periods of time. Play Jamison with either of them at C and its a nice unit.

If we were to add another player, I think we should get a small forward.

I posted in the Pau Gasol trade about trying to acquire Chandler Parsons. This kid is underrated and he has the potential to be a star. He's an athletic slasher that can also shoot and create plays. It's only his second year but this guy's game is pretty complete. He's not a specialist, he does a lot of things really well. He shoots the 3 at 42%. He can handle the ball and finish at the rim or create plays for others. He's not a bad passer either. At 6'9 230lbs, he's an excellent defender with great fundamentals. Kobe Bryant gave him props.

This guy can recognize when to make the right play and he has the versatility to do it. I can see him picking defenses apart off of Kobe/Nash/Howard kick outs. He has the ability to drain the 3 and while the defense scrambles to close out, he can drive and pull up, finish at the rim, or dish it to an open teammate. This guy is like an Odom/Deng hybrid.

I think the most underrated thing about this guy is his athleticism. He has some impressive dunks on his highlight reel. There was one play where he caught the ball at the 3 point line, recognized an opening, drove right past Kevin Durant, and posterized Ibaka. He also had some impressive putback dunks on Ginger Griffin and Javale McGoo.

His energy and athleticism could really bring that Showtime feeling back. I'd like to see this kid filling the lane on a 3 on 2 with Nash on the break. He can play in the halfcourt, in transition, on the ball, off the ball, catch and shoot, catch and drive, make plays, pullup off the dribble. His versatility and bball IQ would make him a perfect fit in D'Antoni's system. He'd fit in with the starters and he's young enough to be facilitator for the bench as well. Pau Gasol is too old to be playing a starter role and a bench leader role. The Lakers need youth and athleticism, and this kid has it.

A lot of people shot the trade idea down because Houston would have to send the Lakers a million players to make it work and the Lakers would have to somehow send a million out to make room. I did some research on Hoopshype and played around with the trade checker and I found a deal with the Jazz that could be made to work out. I considered the salary/contract situation of all teams and players involved and came up with this trade:



Why do the Jazz make the trade?

The Utah Jazz have a crowded front court. Derrick Favors, the 3rd pick in the 2011 NBA Draft has seen steady improvement with increased minutes. Meanwhile, Paul Millsap is in the last year of his contract and the Jazz risk letting him walk for nothing. By making this trade, they will acquire Patrick Patterson, who can be a young cheap replacement for Millsap. They can hand the starting power forward spot to Favors while Patterson can be a backup.

Utah also saves a lot of money from this trade. In 2012-2013, they owe $19,658,700.00 to Millsap, Williams, Tinsley, Caroll, and Murphy. If they make the trade for Duhon, Aldrich, Patterson, Jones, Clark, and Smith, they would only owe $11,462,200.00. They would save $8,196,500.00 this year if they make the trade.

In 2013-2014, they owe a guaranteed $8,300,000.00 to Marvin Williams. If they make the trade, they would owe $3,600,000.00 guaranteed to Patterson and Jones. By making, this trade, they would save $12,896,500.00 total. They would have more flexibility to make future deals with the extra cap space they get from this deal.

I'm not sure if saving money and getting some young players, with a decent looking one in Patterson, would be enough. They might want picks. The Lakers have none. I'm not sure how willing Houston would be to give up picks.

Why do the Rockets make the trade?

They get the coveted Pau Gasol without giving up their core of Asik, Lin, and Harden. Kevin McHale, who admires Pau Gasol, will properly utilize his low post skills. They also get rid of Royce White so they won't have to deal with his issues.

Why do the Lakers make the trade?

By trading Pau Gasol's contract, they're projected to save money on this deal. In 2012-2013, the Lakers owe Gasol, Duhon, Clark, Sacre, and DJO $24,647,200.00. If they make the trade, they would owe $23,088,300.00 to Millsap, Williams, White, Douglas, Montejunas, and Parsons. They would save $1,558,900.00 in guaranteed money plus another $1,558,900.00 from the luxury tax.

In 2013-2014, they owe 19,000,000 guaranteed to Pau Gasol. If they made the trade, they would owe $11,500,000.00 to Williams, White and Montejunas. They would save $7,500,000.00 in 2013-2014 in guaranteed deals (if they let Millsap walk) and a projected $11,250,000.00 in repeater tax (I multiplied by 1.5 because I believe those are the new tax rules starting next year). In total, they would save about $12,047,200.00 in guaranteed money, not counting the luxry tax. I didn't count Chandler Parsons because his deal is unguaranteed but he's only making like $800,000 so it's not a big deal.

Not only do they save money on the deal, they would get back a true stretch 4 in Paul Millsap. Even though he's undersized, he has more heart than Pau Gasol does at this point. They'd have to take on Marvin Williams' ridiculous contract but I'd rather his contract + Millsap + Parsons + crap over Pau Gasol's albatross contract. Williams' contract expires in 2 years so it won't interefere with the 2014 plan.

They'd have to decide on re-signing Paul Millsap. If they let him walk, they can shift Ron Artest to the 4 and play Parsons at the 3.

This deal would leave the Lakers with 16 players on the roster so they'd have to cut someone like Ebanks or Morris. If I were Mitch, I'd cut a check to Royce White to make him go away if he has any more outbursts.

In addition to saving money on this deal, the Lakers would also receive Chandler Parsons. This guy has the potential to be a stud, especially in D'Antoni's offense. The Lakers should insist on getting Parsons. Houston would essentially be trading Parsons + Patterson for Pau Gasol.


I just realized the Jazz would have 16 players as well. They'd need to waive someone. The Lakers would have to throw in some cash to pay the waivee.

I found a second deal that would leave the Lakers and Jazz with 15 players this season.



Instead of getting White and Montejunas, the Lakers get Cook. They save even more than the last deal. In 2012-2013, they'd save $1,658,900.00. In 2013- 2014, they'd save $10,700,000.00. In total, they'd save $13,247,200.00 in guaranteed money, not counting luxury tax.

The Utah Jazz also save more in this deal. In 2012-2013, they'd save $8,958,700.00. In 2013-2014, they'd save $4,700,000.00. In total, they'd save $13,658,700.00.

Nash/Douglas/Blake/Morris
Kobe Bryant/Meeks/Cook/Parsons
Artest/Parsons/Kobe Bryant
Millsap/Jamison/Williams/Parsons
Howard/Hill

Possible lineups:

Nash/Kobe Bryant/Artest/Millsap/Howard

Nash/Kobe Bryant/Parsons/Millsap/Howard

Nash/Kobe Bryant/Artest/Parsons/Howard (great defensive lineup)

Nash/Meeks/Kobe Bryant/Parsons/Howard (run and gun)

Bench:

Douglas/Meeks/Parsons/Jamison/Hill They can have Parsons play the point forward role pick and roll or pick and pop with Jamison.

Blake/Meeks/Parsons/Jamison/Hill

Blake/Meeks/Parsons/Jamison/Howard

This team would have legitimate depth. It would have shooters/slashers/finishers. Kobe Bryant would have legitimate backups. There would be no reason to ply him more than 32 minutes a night. If Meeks isn't cutting it, throw Cook in there. Parsons could actually play some backup 2 also if he needs to. The PG rotation is still kind of iffy, but Parsons can play the point forward role with the bench. Toney Douglas has experience in D'Antoni's offense. The only problem would be that if Dwight gets injured, a guy with a herniated disc in his back, in Hill would have to start and there would be no backup center. I think Paul Millsap could play some 5 if something happened but I don't think Dwight will get injured.

In conclusion, I believe this is a fair deal for all parties involved. Chandler Parsons would be awesome in D'Antoni's offense and Millsap would be a good stopgap for this year and they can still possibly re-sign him to a favorable deal. I love Pau Gasol for helping the Lakers win back to back titles, but he's getting paid way too much to be relied on like he is.

Groundless Trade Thread?

King of Clutch wrote:I can't believe no one has come up with something with Utah yet. They have FOUR talented big men in Enas Kanter (who has a jumper, girth, and length.

^^I was wondering how long that one would "linger" before someone noticed.

I should have known it would be Punk.....

Punk-101 wrote:

King of Clutch wrote:I can't believe no one has come up with something with Utah yet. They have FOUR talented big men in Enas Kanter (who has a jumper, girth, and length.

talk about "inside" reporting

Groundless trade? Maybe, but most of these trade ideas are groundless. What exactly makes this trade groundless? The only difference between a trade idea like this and something like the Josh Smith trade, besides the obvious benefits this deal has over a terrible fit in Josh Smith, is that there are reporters speculating on a Josh Smith trade. I'm not advocating that the Lakers trade Pau Gasol for the sake of making a trade, but I truly believe a deal like this is more realistic and more beneficial for all teams involved. I'd argue this idea has more grounds than a Josh Smith trade because it's a better trade and there are realistic arguments for why Houston and Utah would accept.

Of course there are possible objections such as: does Houston still want Pau Gasol and do they want to sacrifice the flexibility of cap space to take on his contract, do the Utah Jazz want to sacrifice this season and take on additional players to save extra money and get more cap space, and do the Lakers want to risk hoping a Nash return will suddenly energize Pau Gasol and make him less emo? I've looked at other teams throughout the league and most teams are at or just under the salary cap. Most teams could not take Pau even if they wanted to, without significantly gutting their rosters.

The other ideas as suggested by other fans have just as many possible objections, with less benefits. Not only would Josh Smith be a terrible fit on offense, but Atlanta has absolutely no reason to sacrifice cap space for Pau Gasol. Another idea that I've seen suggested is something like Pekovic/Williams/Barea for Pau Gasol, but Pekovic is redundant with Dwight Howard on the team, Williams looks like a bust and Barea is a midget. Bosh or Aldridge are definitely pipe dreams and while David West is somewhat semi-plausible (not really), he's getting older too. David Lee? He currently produces more than Pau Gasol at this point, but his contract is even worse than Pau's and it runs well past the 2013-2014 season so the Lakers wouldn't have the cap space to sign a big free agent like they plan to in 2014. With this deal, all the contracts involved expire before or right after the 2013-2014 season, or some contracts are team options after 2013-2014, depending on the players/contracts involved.

This trade could improve the Lakers offense and defense, add depth and keep the team competitive while at the same time saving them money. I agree that this trade is highly unlikely but I would take it over adding minimum players (lol Pietrus) or making obviously terrible trades (Josh Smith). I wouldn't trade Pau for the sake of a trade but I'd rank my preferences like this:

1. Trade Pau Gasol for a Parsons/Millsap package
2. Keep Pau Gasol, add minimum players, wait for Nash to return and hope it's enough
3. Trade Pau Gasol for something else. I can't think of a deal that's better and somewhat realistic over the Parsons/Millsap deal so I'd rather not trade Pau unless it's for something obvious like Bosh/Aldridge (pipe dream) or this Parsons/Millsap package (Less pipe, although somewhat more realistic, still semi-pipe).

I really hope Pau Gasol wakes up, I really do. But I don't think Nash will make Pau drain his midrange shot with consistency. I don't think Nash will stop Pau Gasol from being exploited on the pick and roll. I don't think Nash will stop Pau from being outworked by undersized 4s such as Carl Landry, Faried, and Millsap.

Seriously, it's not like I'm trying to send out Pau and Blake for Kevin Love. Utah benefits by getting value for Millsap and saving money from Marvin Williams' contract. Houston benefits by pairing Pau with Asik and keeping Lin and Harden. They don't have to follow this exact trade, pieces can be added/removed/shifted, draft picks/cash can be added to sweeten the deal, etc. The idea is just to leverage Houston's cap space to provide incentive for the Jazz, get the Lakers the depth they need (and save money as well), and give McHale his mancrush in Pau Gasol.

3 team, 18 player trade. seems pretty easy to pull off.

You know Mitch Kupchak has the skills, the talent, and the vision to pull it off.

Greatest of All Time wrote:You know Mitch Kupchak has the skills, the talent, and the vision to pull it off.

definitely. 18 player trades aren't even a challenge for him. i think we need to add in 3 more teams and 15 more players.

Greatest of All Time I like where your heads at, seems like you know your basketball. But to be honest, I do not see Houston giving up a young and talented SF in Parsons for a guy who is clearly on the decline in Pau Gasol. Seems crazy that they wouldn't take Gasol for Parsons and Patterson but I think they like their youth too much and want to see these guys grow together. Houston is not in win now mode...and really haven't been for a while with Morey stock piling draft picks every damn year. If we wanted parsons, we would have had a much better chance at getting him before the season started. Now, he's playing way too good for somoene like Morey to give him up in a Gasol deal. But we definitely need to work some trades with these 2 squads...I wouldn't mind giving Gasol to the Jazz for Millsap and Hayward, basically Millsap and anybody else. Jazz love them some white players too...Gasol fits in nicely with them. lol

Actually a more realistic trade would be Millsap and Marvin Williams for Pau Gasol. That's a pretty fair trade and it gives us a nice PF with a back up SF who is still pretty young and can maybe flourish in Dantoni's system.

LOL, that's an 18 player trade, which I don't think has ever happened. Also, Utah gets KILLED in it. Not happening.

FabFourLakers wrote:Actually a more realistic trade would be Millsap and Marvin Williams for Pau Gasol. That's a pretty fair trade and it gives us a nice PF with a back up SF who is still pretty young and can maybe flourish in Dantoni's system.

This I like

Pig Miller wrote:

Greatest of All Time wrote:You know Mitch Kupchak has the skills, the talent, and the vision to pull it off.

definitely. 18 player trades aren't even a challenge for him. i think we need to add in 3 more teams and 15 more players.

Maybe you don't realize this, but the goal isn't to come up with the largest deal involving the most players possible. The goal is to improve the roster. Without using passive-aggressive sarcasm, can you suggest more realistic moves that would improve the roster, besides the trades/minimum player signings that have already been suggested and besides praying Steve Nash will save Pau?

Greatest of All Time I like where your heads at, seems like you know your basketball. But to be honest, I do not see Houston giving up a young and talented SF in Parsons for a guy who is clearly on the decline in Pau Gasol. Seems crazy that they wouldn't take Gasol for Parsons and Patterson but I think they like their youth too much and want to see these guys grow together. Houston is not in win now mode...and really haven't been for a while with Morey stock piling draft picks every damn year. If we wanted parsons, we would have had a much better chance at getting him before the season started. Now, he's playing way too good for somoene like Morey to give him up in a Gasol deal. But we definitely need to work some trades with these 2 squads...I wouldn't mind giving Gasol to the Jazz for Millsap and Hayward, basically Millsap and anybody else. Jazz love them some white players too...Gasol fits in nicely with them. lol

The deal could actually work without Parsons since he makes only $800k but I'd want another significant piece that I don't think anyone else can offer. I don't think Millsap + Marvin Wlliams is more realistic because they already have Kanter/Favors. They'd save more money by just letting Millsap walk and hanging onto Williams for $16 million over 2 years instead of trading for Pau and paying him $38 million over 2 years. Unless you meant that they do the same trade without receiving Parsons, because they already get Marvin Williams in the original trade. I'd rather keep Pau Gasol over Millsap/Williams/no Parsons. I understand Morey being hesitant to give up Parsons but I'd still try to sell him on the vision of their own version of the Twin Towers. If I remember correctly, they wanted to do a Pau/Nene front court, Pau/Dalembert, Nene/Dalembert. Kevin McHale has a huge mancrush on Pau.

Finwë wrote:LOL, that's an 18 player trade, which I don't think has ever happened. Also, Utah gets KILLED in it. Not happening.

Utah doesn't get killed. They get rid of players they don't need and will likely walk at the end of the season, they receive some youth in return, and they save money from unloading Marvin Williams' contract. Unless they planned on keeping Millsap and keeping Favors on the bench, Millsap will walk at the end of the season. What do they give up that they weren't willing to give up anyway? This season, I believe Houston is getting $19 million in luxury taxes for being something like $7-9 million under the cap. Taxes are going to be much higher next season because of the repeater $1.50 for $1 tax or wutever it is. Hypothetically, they could save some money (about $8 million this season, 5 million next season), stay under the cap and get a fat check worth millions from the luxury tax fund.

The only teams I can see that might want Pau are the Rockets or Timberwolves. The Timberwolves have crap to offer straight up.


A Pau for Smith trade could also be possible but I doubt it's a straight swap because they don't want/need Pau. Maybe if Houston took Pau and the Hawks send out a bad contract with Smith to the Lakers and receive a combination of players/expirings that saves them more money over just letting Smith walk. I've heard they'll have enough space to sign 2 max players, so I'm not sure if any money saved/cap space created in a deal would make a difference. And then the Lakers would have to consider offering Smith a long term deal to appease his BFF Dwight Howard.

I honestly can't think of any straight up deals the Lakers can get without downgrading their roster or forcing the other team to give up more than they're willing to give. It seems clear that a multi-team trade is needed. They would need to find a team that not only wants Pau Gasol, but has the means to acquire him (large contracts and/or cap space). Houston fits the bill.I'm not sure if Minnesota does. Other teams?

Toronto is always looking to make deals, but I'd keep Pau over Bargnani.

Chicago would try to force feed them Boozer. Pass.

A trade would be much easier if Pau Gasol wasn't making $19 million a year but then again if he was making less, maybe they'd have more money invested in competent role players so they wouldn't have to rely on the guy to do to much and a trade wouldn't be needed.

This I like

Utah doesn't like it, at least not straight up. No reason to pay Pau $19 million for 2 years over Millsap 8 million for 1 year and Williams $16 million over 2 years. The only way I can see the Lakers getting those two is in a three team deal with a team willing to take Pau. That's what the Houston deal is for.

So either you like a deal that's even more unlikely than the one I suggested (Pau for Millsap/Williams straight up vs Pau for Millsap/Williams/Parsons in a three team deal) OR you like at least part of the original deal which already nets them Millsap/Williams. Unless you can think of another team willing to take Pau and can make a deal that's not only less complicated than the one I suggested, but actually helps all teams involved.

Guys, this is NOT the thread to discuss groundless trade ideas. Please take it to the Trade Thread:

http://www.clublakers.com/trade-ideas/

Greatest of All Time wrote:

Pig Miller wrote:

Greatest of All Time wrote:You know Mitch Kupchak has the skills, the talent, and the vision to pull it off.

definitely. 18 player trades aren't even a challenge for him. i think we need to add in 3 more teams and 15 more players.

Maybe you don't realize this, but the goal isn't to come up with the largest deal involving the most players possible. The goal is to improve the roster. Without using passive-aggressive sarcasm, can you suggest more realistic moves that would improve the roster, besides the trades/minimum player signings that have already been suggested and besides praying Steve Nash will save Pau?

Greatest of All Time I like where your heads at, seems like you know your basketball. But to be honest, I do not see Houston giving up a young and talented SF in Parsons for a guy who is clearly on the decline in Pau Gasol. Seems crazy that they wouldn't take Gasol for Parsons and Patterson but I think they like their youth too much and want to see these guys grow together. Houston is not in win now mode...and really haven't been for a while with Morey stock piling draft picks every damn year. If we wanted parsons, we would have had a much better chance at getting him before the season started. Now, he's playing way too good for somoene like Morey to give him up in a Gasol deal. But we definitely need to work some trades with these 2 squads...I wouldn't mind giving Gasol to the Jazz for Millsap and Hayward, basically Millsap and anybody else. Jazz love them some white players too...Gasol fits in nicely with them. lol

The deal could actually work without Parsons since he makes only $800k but I'd want another significant piece that I don't think anyone else can offer. I don't think Millsap + Marvin Wlliams is more realistic because they already have Kanter/Favors. They'd save more money by just letting Millsap walk and hanging onto Williams for $16 million over 2 years instead of trading for Pau and paying him $38 million over 2 years. Unless you meant that they do the same trade without receiving Parsons, because they already get Marvin Williams in the original trade. I'd rather keep Pau Gasol over Millsap/Williams/no Parsons. I understand Morey being hesitant to give up Parsons but I'd still try to sell him on the vision of their own version of the Twin Towers. If I remember correctly, they wanted to do a Pau/Nene front court, Pau/Dalembert, Nene/Dalembert. Kevin McHale has a huge mancrush on Pau.

Finwë wrote:LOL, that's an 18 player trade, which I don't think has ever happened. Also, Utah gets KILLED in it. Not happening.

Utah doesn't get killed. They get rid of players they don't need and will likely walk at the end of the season, they receive some youth in return, and they save money from unloading Marvin Williams' contract. Unless they planned on keeping Millsap and keeping Favors on the bench, Millsap will walk at the end of the season. What do they give up that they weren't willing to give up anyway? This season, I believe Houston is getting $19 million in luxury taxes for being something like $7-9 million under the cap. Taxes are going to be much higher next season because of the repeater $1.50 for $1 tax or wutever it is. Hypothetically, they could save some money (about $8 million this season, 5 million next season), stay under the cap and get a fat check worth millions from the luxury tax fund.

The only teams I can see that might want Pau are the Rockets or Timberwolves. The Timberwolves have crap to offer straight up.


A Pau for Smith trade could also be possible but I doubt it's a straight swap because they don't want/need Pau. Maybe if Houston took Pau and the Hawks send out a bad contract with Smith to the Lakers and receive a combination of players/expirings that saves them more money over just letting Smith walk. I've heard they'll have enough space to sign 2 max players, so I'm not sure if any money saved/cap space created in a deal would make a difference. And then the Lakers would have to consider offering Smith a long term deal to appease his BFF Dwight Howard.

I honestly can't think of any straight up deals the Lakers can get without downgrading their roster or forcing the other team to give up more than they're willing to give. It seems clear that a multi-team trade is needed. They would need to find a team that not only wants Pau Gasol, but has the means to acquire him (large contracts and/or cap space). Houston fits the bill.I'm not sure if Minnesota does. Other teams?

Toronto is always looking to make deals, but I'd keep Pau over Bargnani.

Chicago would try to force feed them Boozer. Pass.

A trade would be much easier if Pau Gasol wasn't making $19 million a year but then again if he was making less, maybe they'd have more money invested in competent role players so they wouldn't have to rely on the guy to do to much and a trade wouldn't be needed.

This I like

Utah doesn't like it, at least not straight up. No reason to pay Pau $19 million for 2 years over Millsap 8 million for 1 year and Williams $16 million over 2 years. The only way I can see the Lakers getting those two is in a three team deal with a team willing to take Pau. That's what the Houston deal is for.

So either you like a deal that's even more unlikely than the one I suggested (Pau for Millsap/Williams straight up vs Pau for Millsap/Williams/Parsons in a three team deal) OR you like at least part of the original deal which already nets them Millsap/Williams. Unless you can think of another team willing to take Pau and can make a deal that's not only less complicated than the one I suggested, but actually helps all teams involved.

yes, thank you! now i understand how trades work! it's to improve your team. you have shown me the way.

based on your logic, no way utah would make this deal. an issue they had last year is they couldn't shoot the 3 ball, both mo and marvin williams help that, so why give either of them up? they also have the opportunity to re-sign or let them walk, what they're getting in return is trash, they're better off letting those contracts walk.

utah is also more likely to keep millsap than jefferson because of his versatility. kanter will provide a similar skill set as jefferson, no need to keep big Al at $14m per year.

trodgers wrote:Guys, this is NOT the thread to discuss groundless trade ideas. Please take it to the Trade Thread:

http://www.clublakers.com/trade-ideas/

How it is that this thread is filled with pages and pages of groundless trade ideas and free agent signings but then it's suddenly not ok to discuss trade ideas? Just two pages ago, there was a poster talking about Minnesota sending the Lakers Kirilenko, Budinger, and Derrick Williams for Pau.

Without using passive-aggressive sarcasm, can you suggest more realistic moves that would improve the roster, besides the trades/minimum player signings that have already been suggested and besides praying Steve Nash will save Pau?

yes, thank you! now i understand how trades work! it's to improve your team. you have shown me the way.

Apparently not.

based on your logic, no way utah would make this deal. an issue they had last year is they couldn't shoot the 3 ball, both mo and marvin williams help that, so why give either of them up? they also have the opportunity to re-sign or let them walk, what they're getting in return is trash, they're better off letting those contracts walk.

The original trade doesn't involve Mo Williams. I'm not sure where you got his name from.They don't have the opportunity to re-sign or let Marvin Williams walk until after 2013-2014. They're not saving money by keeping him for 2 years. They're spending roughly $8 million a year on him. Keeping him at $8 million a year to be a 3 point shooter? There are much cheaper options than that. Unloading him EARLY saves them money.

You think Mo Williams is involved in the deal and you think they'd save more money by letting Millsap walk even though I explained how they'd save more money by trading him and Williams. Seriously?

Here are their options:

1. Re-sign Millsap. This is possible, but not in their best interest. Favors can develop into a potentially better 4 next to Kanter at the 5. They'd be paying Millsap at least $6-7 million to be a backup (or they'd be forced to keep one of Favors or Kanter as a backup and limit his development) until they find a way to trade him for a perimeter player. The idea is to develop Kanter and Favors but keeping Millsap creates a problem with playing time for their frontcourt. I don't see them having long-term success with playing a 250lb Millsap at the 3. He's quick for his size, but he's no LeBronze James.

2. Let Millsap walk. This is also possible and they'd certainly save money by doing this. But they wouldn't get anything back in return. I've shown in my previous posts that they'd save more money short-term and long-term by unloading Millsap and Marvin Williams early for smaller expirings and rookie contracts. So if I'm Utah and I have the option to save more money and get some young players to possibly develop with their young core, in exchange for Millsap and Marvin Wiliams, I consider it. Of course, there's the whole complexity of an 18 player 3-team trade that might concern me, but I'm not going to let that stop me from exploring all options.

3. Trade Millsap and get some value in return. They'll probably explore their options for upgrades at the wing position and 3 point shooting. Trading him gives the team flexibility with extra cap space.They could leverage their cap space to acquire picks or players in deals without matching salaries. Kind of like how Houston would be leveraging their cap space to acquire Pau Gasol.

Implications of trading Millsap in this deal:

-Reduce salary by unloading him with Marvin Williams early. They'd be taking on smaller expiring contracts and rookie salaries that total less than the contracts they'd be sending out.

-Give Favors and Kanter more playing time and allow them to develop

-Commit to a full rebuild and possibly tank for a high pick

-Receive decent young players in return. Patrick Patterson shoots the 3 at 37.5%, if you're really that concerned about 3 point shooting. Send them Markieff Morris as well, he's a Marvin Williams tweener small forward/power forward figure at 1/3 the price. Even if you think that's trash, you're paying them less than what you'd be paying Millsap/Williams and if you're already planning on letting Millsap/Williams walk to save money, you'd save more money by taking on cheaper "trash" and not picking up their options. Why would you pay more money to two guys that you're planning on letting walk anyway if you can spend less money on "trash" and get rid of them if they don't offer anything of value?

Implications of keeping Millsap:

-Save money by letting him walk, though not as much as unloading him and Marvin Williams early

-Limit Favors' and Kanters' development

-Continue to be the treadmill team that they are: good enough to contend for a late play-off spot, but not good enough to make any real noise.

If they want to unload Jefferson instead of Millsap, I'd take him in a heartbeat if it meant getting Parsons. Either way, I'm not taking Millsap or Jefferson without Parsons. I'd rather keep Pau Gasol.

Gasol,Duhon and Ebanks for Ilyasova,Dunleavy and Ben Gordon
We send Gasol to Bucks and Duhon to Bobcats. Bucks gotta trade Udrih and a first round pick to Bobcats.

i know getting ilyasova's contract doesnt look good but i think he will find himself here. Also Dunleavy and Ben Gordon will help the bench alot.

Nash/Blake/Morris
Kobe/Gordon
Artest/Dunleavy
Ilyasova/Jamison
Howard/Hill

Mickael Pietrus with 23 points tonight in Sacramento...why didnt we sign this guy

Barbosa up in BOS hitting 40% of his 3s, hes not playing much but when given PT hes been productive