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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby Doc Brown on Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:43 pm

Bargnani's only sub 30% 3 pt season was in the lockout season last year? :man3:

Career 36% from 3.

He's only shot under 40% once in his career at 38%, he's at 39.5% this year, career 44% FG.

:man3:
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby khmrP on Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:47 pm

Doc Brown wrote:Bargnani's only sub 30% 3 pt season was in the lockout season last year? :man3:

Career 36% from 3.

He's only shot under 40% once in his career at 38%, he's at 39.5% this year, career 44% FG.

:man3:


what do you think sub 40% means? 44% from a big is NOT good, but I guess is accetaple as "stretch 4"
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby King of Clutch on Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:49 pm

trodgers wrote:
King of Clutch wrote:
trodgers wrote:Guys, this is NOT the thread to discuss groundless trade ideas. Please take it to the Trade Thread:

http://www.clublakers.com/trade-ideas/

LOL!! Good luck with that. :man10:

Staff is discussing the issue. :man10:

LOL!!!! I was just joking. Really funny reply though. lol
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby Doc Brown on Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:55 pm

khmrP wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:Bargnani's only sub 30% 3 pt season was in the lockout season last year? :man3:

Career 36% from 3.

He's only shot under 40% once in his career at 38%, he's at 39.5% this year, career 44% FG.

:man3:


what do you think sub 40% means? 44% from a big is NOT good, but I guess is accetaple as "stretch 4"


I'm just correcting your false and unspecified information. I didn't make the "stretch 4" claim so I don't know why that's relevant to my post. Considering only 35 players in the history of the NBA have shot over 40% from 3, I'm sure that's what you were alluding to. :man12:
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby King of Clutch on Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:57 pm

NeeJee wrote:Wanna talk about a REAL stretch 4? One trade offer seems to be flying under the radar quite a bit. Pau for Bargnani and Calderon. Andrea is still fairly young, he's a smart player, and can flat out shoot a basketball. A pick and roll/pop with him and Nash would be devastating. Nash made Channing Frye a premiere shooting threat, just imagine what he'd do with Bargnani. Imagine all of the wide open Pau jumpers from the elbows, but instead Bargnani standing out behind the arc as wide open as Pau is. That's a salivating thought. Also Calderon leading the second unit? That's just not even fair anymore. He's probably one of the most underrated point guards in the NBA constantly being overshadowed by the pluthora of superstar point guards. Deadly shooter, great ballhandling, smart decision maker. When Nash gets back into the lineup, and Pau doesn't perform, I pull the trigger with Toronto right away.

I definitely agree with the calderon part. The man runs the point beautifully. Definitely underrated as a backup. I would do this but, jamison is giving us what bargnani would with better rebounding and defense. And chris duhon seems to be flourishing as the backup point. This trade isn't necessary anymore. I would actually either keep gasol at this point, or get anderson. He seems to be the only one who can grab boards in bunches, hold his own on D, and shoot lights out from 3. Anyone else for pau would be a downgrade. If pau doesn't work well with dwight, just use jamison as our starting 4, and send pau to the bench. Jamison has proven that he can play that role.
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby khmrP on Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:00 pm

Doc Brown wrote:
khmrP wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:Bargnani's only sub 30% 3 pt season was in the lockout season last year? :man3:

Career 36% from 3.

He's only shot under 40% once in his career at 38%, he's at 39.5% this year, career 44% FG.

:man3:


what do you think sub 40% means? 44% from a big is NOT good, but I guess is accetaple as "stretch 4"


I'm just correcting your false and unspecified information. I didn't make the "stretch 4" claim so I don't know why that's relevant to my post. Considering only 35 players in the history of the NBA have shot over 40% from 3, I'm sure that's what you were alluding to. :man12:


whats false? 44% is SUB 40's, 36% is SUB 30's.....SUB to me is the middle to bottom range, maybe I have the term wrong then? The fact his 3pt% is still the low 30's this season should be of some concern after last years 29%
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby lakersin4 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:01 pm

khmrP wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:
khmrP wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:Bargnani's only sub 30% 3 pt season was in the lockout season last year? :man3:

Career 36% from 3.

He's only shot under 40% once in his career at 38%, he's at 39.5% this year, career 44% FG.

:man3:


what do you think sub 40% means? 44% from a big is NOT good, but I guess is accetaple as "stretch 4"


I'm just correcting your false and unspecified information. I didn't make the "stretch 4" claim so I don't know why that's relevant to my post. Considering only 35 players in the history of the NBA have shot over 40% from 3, I'm sure that's what you were alluding to. :man12:


whats false? 44% is SUB 40's, 36% is SUB 30's.....SUB to me is the middle to bottom range, maybe I have the term wrong then? The fact his 3pt% is still the low 30's this season should be of some concern after last years 29%

Sub 40 = below 40.
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby tigerjeterkobe on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:20 pm

I would love for Mitch to find a way to turn Gasol into several great pieces through a trade with Minnesota and Portland -- involving Pek, Williams (who I think would flourish with Dwight for years), Buddinger (waive medical since he is out til late Feb), and Barea, with Ebanks, Gasol, Blake, and Meeks going out.

Nash, Barea, Duhon
Kobe, Mathews, Morris (let him develop and use him for D in spots on fast guards)
Ron, Buddinger
Jamison, Williams, Clark
Dwight, Hill, Sacre

That would certainly keep Dwight around -- young core to build around.

Barea
Mathews
Chase
Williams
Howard, Hill

We all know that Gasol is not worh his contract. The team, now and in the future, would be best if we can turn him and Blake into pieces.
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby tigerjeterkobe on Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:15 pm

Following up on my post above. I see no reason at all to keep Pau. The last two post seasons provided all the proof we need. Nash can't help him -- he won't roll well because he isn't a strong finisher. We need speed, youth, athleticism, and floor spacers to go with our vets. Also, need guys who have grit (hate losing and play with an edge), and who have playoff experience.

Trade with Minny (Kahn is lieing, he wants Gasol and wants to get rid of D. Williams). Gasol and Meeks to Minny, for Pek, Williams, Barea (filler?) and a second round pick. Pek to Portland for Mathews (filler needed?). Then later, Duhon, Ebanks and Minny 2nd to Was for Ariza.

So Gasol turns into one of the best benches in the league, and one that can help us win now, keep Dwight, and win in the future. All perfect for MDA's system, and most are gritty defenders.

Barea -- young, can run P&R behind Nash, can space the floor, can finish in the paint (when not being leveled by Bynum), can run a great break, playes with an edge, decent defender, not afraid of taking a big shot -- and has a ring with great experience.

Mathews -- not as pure a shooter as Meeks, perhaps, but better in every other way. Young. Floor spacer. Has a good floater. Can run the break. Plays with a huge attitude. Good defender. Likes to take big shots. has playoff experience with Portland and Utah.

Ariza -- all the same attributes as Mathews, except no floater but can play above the rim. Exactly what we need mixing with Artest, Kobe, D. Williams, and Jamison at the SF, and even some at SG. Has a RING.

D. Williams -- Young. Athletic. Spacer. Has much to prove. Should flourish next to Howard. Can run the floor. Would be a beast if he learns to defend and worm for rebounds.

These four next to Hill would be an insane bench. And when mixed with starters would be very formidable. Can help us defensively/energy/and speed wise against the Clips, Heat, Spurs, and Thunder. All would thrive in MDA's system.

That is my dream for this team.
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby Alcindor on Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:37 pm

khmrP wrote:whats false? 44% is SUB 40's, 36% is SUB 30's..........


:man3:
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby tigerjeterkobe on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:21 am

It is more and more obvious that we must trade Gasol to get 2 or 3 pieces we need -- guys with playoff experience who can handle road pressure, guys who play defense, and guys who are fast so they can get back in transition. Gasol will not get us an all-star in return.

If Minny wants to deal...great.

Kobe is playing way too many minutes, and totally sucking on defense. He chucks up a contested shot then points down the court to his man running in transition. Has been going on for 2 years now. He is trying to conserve energy so he can score. Reminds me a lot of Bynum's laziness, actually.

With a few younger, faster, experienced vets for the bench, and Nash back, Kobe can play a little more post up, much more catch and shoot, much less minutes, and focus on D again (and not let guys like Green, Aflalo, Harden, Foye, etc. hit big shots on him at the end of games).

If Mitch focuses on Gasol for key bench guys, and NOT Gasol for another starter, I think we will be much better off.
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby trodgers on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:37 am

Dictionary.com

a prefix occurring originally in loanwords from Latin ( subject; subtract; subvert; subsidy ); on this model, freely attached to elements of any origin and used with the meaning “under,” “below,” “beneath” ( subalpine; substratum ), “slightly,” “imperfectly,” “nearly” ( subcolumnar; subtropical ), “secondary,” “subordinate” ( subcommittee; subplot ).

...the way everyone uses it.
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby khmrP on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:43 am

^^^got it, my point still stands though, Bargnani "rep" as a stretch 4 is a bit exeraggated, he shoots alot from the perimiter but he's not exactly great at it though.
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby trodgers on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:11 am

^ I just want to put this into perspective quick.

Among Power Forwards who have attempted at least 20 shots of 10-15 feet this season, here is the top 10 FG%:
Kevin Seraphin .583, Patrick Patterson .571, Aldridge .532, Scola .500, West .457, Garnett .455, Duncan .444, Bass .360, Lee .333, Davis .326

Among PFs with at least 20 shots from 16-23 feet this season:
Anderson .520, Green .480, Bass .470, Ibaka .470, Landry .460, Cunningham .450, Speights .450, Collison .450, Duncan .450

Gasol's numbers: .167, .400
Bargnani's numbers: .438, .390

Players with at least .375, .375 this season (at least 15 FGA each location):
Al Jefferson, Varejao, Gortat, Bargnani, Kaman, Marc Gasol, Valanciunas, Ibaka, Patterson, Scola, West,
Garnett, Duncan

Last Season:
Bargnani was at .481, .420

Who else did at least .450, .400? (Minimum of 33 FGA both locations)
Duncan, Brand, West, Scola, Bass, Bosh

That means that Bargnani is only one of four players to do .450, .400 last season and at least .375, .375 this season. The others are Duncan, West, and Scola.

That's pretty select company.
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby khmrP on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:16 am

trodgers wrote:^ I just want to put this into perspective quick.

Among Power Forwards who have attempted at least 20 shots of 10-15 feet this season, here is the top 10 FG%:
Kevin Seraphin .583, Patrick Patterson .571, Aldridge .532, Scola .500, West .457, Garnett .455, Duncan .444, Bass .360, Lee .333, Davis .326

Among PFs with at least 20 shots from 16-23 feet this season:
Anderson .520, Green .480, Bass .470, Ibaka .470, Landry .460, Cunningham .450, Speights .450, Collison .450, Duncan .450

Gasol's numbers: .167, .400
Bargnani's numbers: .438, .390

Players with at least .375, .375 this season (at least 15 FGA each location):
Al Jefferson, Varejao, Gortat, Bargnani, Kaman, Marc Gasol, Valanciunas, Ibaka, Patterson, Scola, West,
Garnett, Duncan

Last Season:
Bargnani was at .481, .420

Who else did at least .450, .400? (Minimum of 33 FGA both locations)
Duncan, Brand, West, Scola, Bass, Bosh

That means that Bargnani is only one of four players to do .450, .400 last season and at least .375, .375 this season. The others are Duncan, West, and Scola.

That's pretty select company.


so you would be in favor of a Bargnani trade then?
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby trodgers on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:18 am

I want to see our starting lineup play ten games together before I trade anyone. So, for the present, the answer is no. If Nash comes back around Christmas, then about a month before the trade deadline we should have a very good idea of whether this team will work.
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby tigerjeterkobe on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:36 am

I am talking about defense and the bench. Not the offensive cohesiveness of the starters. I don't need to see Nash and Gasol. To beat the Clipps, Grizz, Thunder and Heat we need depth, energy, and youth. Do we really need to see Nash and Gasol to realize that??
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby Lakerjones on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:38 am

trodgers wrote:I want to see our starting lineup play ten games together before I trade anyone. So, for the present, the answer is no. If Nash comes back around Christmas, then about a month before the trade deadline we should have a very good idea of whether this team will work.


^^ I agree.
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby trodgers on Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:09 am

tigerjeterkobe wrote:I am talking about defense and the bench. Not the offensive cohesiveness of the starters. I don't need to see Nash and Gasol. To beat the Clipps, Grizz, Thunder and Heat we need depth, energy, and youth. Do we really need to see Nash and Gasol to realize that??

You cannot just isolate one aspect from others around them. O affects D and vice versa. Fewer TO means less transition D. Better passing means better % looks and fewer D Reb surrendered.

Moreover take the third and fourth best players off a team. Give them a new coach. Change their offensive sets twice. All in one season. How good will they look?
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby lakersin4 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:57 pm

Bargs can shoot but his effort especially on D is terrible. Nothing about him says winner.
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby tigerjeterkobe on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:16 pm

trodgers wrote:
tigerjeterkobe wrote:I am talking about defense and the bench. Not the offensive cohesiveness of the starters. I don't need to see Nash and Gasol. To beat the Clipps, Grizz, Thunder and Heat we need depth, energy, and youth. Do we really need to see Nash and Gasol to realize that??

You cannot just isolate one aspect from others around them. O affects D and vice versa. Fewer TO means less transition D. Better passing means better % looks and fewer D Reb surrendered.

Moreover take the third and fourth best players off a team. Give them a new coach. Change their offensive sets twice. All in one season. How good will they look?


I get that (better O means better D). And I loved your stat breakdown of Barg's shooting. But I am just talking about Gasol. We have seen him get punked by Landry, Faried, Harrington, etc. He wants the ball in the post but couldn't (wouldn't) outwork any of them or Dirk in the playoffs. We have seen his fumbling hands, tentativeness (like that pass to Ron in the OKC playoff game). The flip shot fall-aways from 2 feet away from the basket. And his defense?? His failure to guard his man one on one is one thing, but his help defense from the weakside is atrocious.

I guess I am just saying I don't need to see him play with Nash. He is softer now (and in the last two post seasons, when he should have had huge matchup advantages) than ever. His choosing to sit out recently after Kobe's comments are further evidence, in my mind at least, of his quitter mentality. Bargs may have some of the same issues, but at less money, and he is younger, plus Calderon and a pick to send to the Wiz to get Ariza, I am down with that. God I hope you prove me wrong....
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby trodgers on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:45 pm

^ I don't know that I'll prove you wrong, but maybe Gasol will :man1:

He's soft, and he never really was a tough guy. So falling off from his "toughest" is always going to be a problem. All that said, he wasn't anywhere near this bad at hitting jumpers prior to this season. So maybe it is the knees.

Gasol's 2010/11 season he shot .433 and .487, respectively, from 10-15 and 16-23 feet.
In 2009/2010 he hit .442 and .480.

In 2011/12, they were both over .400. It's only this year that the numbers were anything short of solid.
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby Doc Brown on Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:08 pm

Shaun Powell ‏@Powell2daPeople
Suns source: Michael Beasley is "toxic," team in tailspin, could lead to major shakeup.
Retweeted by Alex Kennedy
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite


This is interesting. Gortat is frustrated there, Beasley seems like he started off on the wrong foot, Dudley likes Nash.....

What better way to start over for the Suns, by taking on Pau Gasol.
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby trodgers on Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:11 pm

I hate Dudley, but he'd be a great fit for us.
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Re: Roster Improvement: So how's your 40 dash? You're hired!

Postby khmrP on Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:24 pm

Doc Brown wrote:
Shaun Powell ‏@Powell2daPeople
Suns source: Michael Beasley is "toxic," team in tailspin, could lead to major shakeup.
Retweeted by Alex Kennedy
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite


This is interesting. Gortat is frustrated there, Beasley seems like he started off on the wrong foot, Dudley likes Nash.....

What better way to start over for the Suns, by taking on Pau Gasol.


what exactly would taking on Pau do for Pho? and if Beasley is toxic in Pho, they obviously are gona try and unload him, do we really need another cancer/distraction to this team?
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