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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby khmrP on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:35 am

therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:with this payroll I'd expected mgmt. to cont. adding more 2nd rd scrubs and more cheapo's like Meeks, lucked out with Jamison but after this season I doubt we get another ring chasing vet on the cheap like Jamison.

They won't have this payroll next season. Gasol will be gone either by trade or amnesty, Artest will be gone or he'll have to reduce his pay to nearly nothing. Blake might be gone if we need to shed more money. Morris, Duhon, are all gone for sure.

Bryant 30, Howard 21, Nash 9, and Hill 3.5 are the only ones I think guaranteed to come back. Clark and Meeks come back too at around 3.5 a piece. Jamison back for about 1.5 million. Yes that's basically a full roster's worth of pay, but with Bryant at 30 million that's what it is.


why would Jamison come back? Even with those said players gone, this team would still have one of the highest payrolls in the league, I dont see mgmt. adding any longer term players of any signficance anyways that would affect their 2014 plans. This team is old even with out Pau/Metta and there no way of adding a starting calibre player w/o trading Pau, this team is still limited to the mini MLE at best with those 2 gone.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby Chillbongo on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:42 am

They'll go over the cap again, obviously.

Is this the 2nd year in a row? When would we start losing picks, after one more year?

Meeks is on the books for around $1.5M next year already. It's a team option I believe. Metta has an ETO, which I think he exercises instead of being traded. Hopefully we get him for $3M. Clark @ $3-4M. Hopefully Jamison @ $1.5M.

That puts us at $70M for 8 players. Hopefully we can somehow acquire an $8M earning starting SF or PF and then use another $5-8M to round out our bench. We'd have at least 13 players on an $86M payroll.

Significantly better than this year. Not bad with Kobe's $30M and Dwight's max basically eating 80% of the salary cap
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby therealdeal on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:45 am

Because Jamison is a professional and an honorable guy. If he plays again, I don't see him leaving. Just a feeling I have. It's not our faults that we couldn't do what we planned, those plans were ruined from the beginning. I believe he'll give us one more shot since we can still be effective next season featuring Kobe and a now-healthy Dwight.

Like I said: a starting caliber player with Dwight/Kobe/Nash isn't hard to find. Just someone who can defend a little and hit outside shots. If we don't start Clark, we can certainly find someone for the mini-MLE that can be effective in that SF role. Even if it's just Dorrell Wright, that's an improvement offensively of such nice proportion that we'll see a lift in production from the team.

We're all depressed about the way this season has gone/is ending, but it's not as bleak as everyone seems to think it is.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby Chillbongo on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:46 am

khmrP wrote:dont see mgmt. adding any longer term players of any signficance anyways that would affect their 2014 plans.


So you think they're done trying to win with Kobe? Isn't Dwight Howard "affecting" the 2014 plan? I know that's redundant because he's a solid piece, but what if we were able to get another solid piece. I don't think we're getting LeBron in 2014 and if we can trade for Love right now why wait until 2014? If we get the piece(s) this summer and still have Kobe on the roster, and he decided to come back, he'll come back for less anyways.

Either way, we would only have Dwight, Nash, and "Piece" on the books for 2014. And Maybe Earl Clark or Jordan Hill. Nash is expendable at that point.

Off-topic, we really overpaid for Nash
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby lakersin4 on Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:02 pm

Would love to get Wright or Korver for cheap. Wanted Wright when we were rumored to be interested in trading for him from GS.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby khmrP on Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:11 pm

Chillbongo wrote:
khmrP wrote:dont see mgmt. adding any longer term players of any signficance anyways that would affect their 2014 plans.


So you think they're done trying to win with Kobe? Isn't Dwight Howard "affecting" the 2014 plan? I know that's redundant because he's a solid piece, but what if we were able to get another solid piece. I don't think we're getting LeBron in 2014 and if we can trade for Love right now why wait until 2014? If we get the piece(s) this summer and still have Kobe on the roster, and he decided to come back, he'll come back for less anyways.

Either way, we would only have Dwight, Nash, and "Piece" on the books for 2014. And Maybe Earl Clark or Jordan Hill. Nash is expendable at that point.

Off-topic, we really overpaid for Nash


Howard is obviously part of the 2014 plan, I dont why you bother asking. When I refer to that plan its in regards to signing anyone past that year and or trading for anyone with big monetary value that goes beyond that. Isn't it apparent with the signing over the years, everybody expires in 2014 for a reason, minu Nash now. With that said I dont know why anyone with any type of self respect would sign for cheap but also for 1yr or 2 at best with team options like Meeks. Players like Meeks as we can see now accept these terms because they're not that good. Anyone thinking Korver are gona sign for cheap should stop that dream now, dude is leading the league in 3pt% last time I checked, even slow brow 1 trick pony Novak got a good payday last year, we're gona get more Meeks type signing and more Scare type 2nd fodders added to this roster. Its an obvious YES if you can trade for LOVE but I dont know what people are smoking thinking we have any shot at that especially with Pau as the center piece of that scenario.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby khmrP on Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:15 pm

therealdeal wrote:Because Jamison is a professional and an honorable guy. If he plays again, I don't see him leaving. Just a feeling I have. It's not our faults that we couldn't do what we planned, those plans were ruined from the beginning. I believe he'll give us one more shot since we can still be effective next season featuring Kobe and a now-healthy Dwight.

Like I said: a starting caliber player with Dwight/Kobe/Nash isn't hard to find. Just someone who can defend a little and hit outside shots. If we don't start Clark, we can certainly find someone for the mini-MLE that can be effective in that SF role. Even if it's just Dorrell Wright, that's an improvement offensively of such nice proportion that we'll see a lift in production from the team.

We're all depressed about the way this season has gone/is ending, but it's not as bleak as everyone seems to think it is.


being honorable means taking another paycut so he can take another chance of failing? Who's gona critize him for leaving for like someone noted the Heat? He doesn't owe us anything, in fact we owe him for his play this year, at very least I think he should get a pay raise if we want him to come back instead of trying to get cheap with him next season.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby Chillbongo on Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:23 pm

Whoa dude, I'm just as pissed about this season but I think you're jumping the gun a bit. Meeks is pretty good for the price, and he hasn't shoot the ball as well as he did in PHI.

Sacre makes $500,000. And Last I heard, Minny still was interested in Pau. They're not going to keep Pekovic, Pau, and Love. And we're definitely not going to take Pekovic.

And if there was such a need to clear out all of our space for 2014, we wouldn't have Nash and Dwight occupying 50% of the cap. And since it's 50%, we could still give another player a max deal and have $10M left to fill out the roster before going over.

If there's any relevance in the clearing of space for 2014, it's to stay under the cap. That's probably not going to happen. So yeah, there's not really a timetable for a plan. there's just a plan. period.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby khmrP on Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:30 pm

Chillbongo wrote:Whoa dude, I'm just as pissed about this season but I think you're jumping the gun a bit. Meeks is pretty good for the price, and he hasn't shoot the ball as well as he did in PHI.

Sacre makes $500,000. And Last I heard, Minny still was interested in Pau. They're not going to keep Pekovic, Pau, and Love. And we're definitely not going to take Pekovic.

And if there was such a need to clear out all of our space for 2014, we wouldn't have Nash and Dwight occupying 50% of the cap. And since it's 50%, we could still give another player a max deal and have $10M left to fill out the roster before going over.

If there's any relevance in the clearing of space for 2014, it's to stay under the cap. That's probably not going to happen. So yeah, there's not really a timetable for a plan. there's just a plan. period.


you're not even saying anything different than the point I was trying to make, Nash/Howard are pieces you dont mind killing some of the cap room for and from my guess they probably would've expected Nash to retire after Kobe is done too if we had won this year or next, I'm referring to your avg. role players that mgmt. isn't gona brake the bank for. Minn has interest in Pau of a few seasons ago, not current day broken down, charmin soft and certainly not at the expense of Kevin Love, at best you're looking at a combo of Dwill and or AK47. If by some miracle we get Love for Pau/stuff, I'll be glad to eat my word and even buy you a tkt to opening day :man10:
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby therealdeal on Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:42 pm

khmrP wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Because Jamison is a professional and an honorable guy. If he plays again, I don't see him leaving. Just a feeling I have. It's not our faults that we couldn't do what we planned, those plans were ruined from the beginning. I believe he'll give us one more shot since we can still be effective next season featuring Kobe and a now-healthy Dwight.

Like I said: a starting caliber player with Dwight/Kobe/Nash isn't hard to find. Just someone who can defend a little and hit outside shots. If we don't start Clark, we can certainly find someone for the mini-MLE that can be effective in that SF role. Even if it's just Dorrell Wright, that's an improvement offensively of such nice proportion that we'll see a lift in production from the team.

We're all depressed about the way this season has gone/is ending, but it's not as bleak as everyone seems to think it is.


being honorable means taking another paycut so he can take another chance of failing? Who's gona critize him for leaving for like someone noted the Heat? He doesn't owe us anything, in fact we owe him for his play this year, at very least I think he should get a pay raise if we want him to come back instead of trying to get cheap with him next season.

Like I said: gut feeling.

If he plays he stays here, that's what I'm saying. I could see him retiring this summer if his wrist injury can't be repaired in a timely fashion.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby Chillbongo on Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:43 pm

No, Minnesota had interest for Pau RIGHT NOW. With his expiring contract they figure to get him and re-sign for much cheaper. Also, there's this guy named Ricky Rubio that came back this season, who happens to be from Spain.

And obviously we wouldn't settle for some damn role players, we're talking about legitimate pieces. And I think you were saying that we wouldn't add any...."dont see mgmt. adding any longer term players of any signficance "

A significant player would not ruin the 2014 plan if he was significant.

Which brings me back to the original point that there's no timeline - it's a plan, and I think we're looking to do it ASAP. We're not going to waste Kobe's $30M season on another 8 seed. We're going to compete.

And I'll totally take you up on that ticket offer!
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby khmrP on Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:51 pm

Chillbongo wrote:No, Minnesota had interest for Pau RIGHT NOW. With his expiring contract they figure to get him and re-sign for much cheaper. Also, there's this guy named Ricky Rubio that came back this season, who happens to be from Spain.

And obviously we wouldn't settle for some damn role players, we're talking about legitimate pieces. And I think you were saying that we wouldn't add any...."dont see mgmt. adding any longer term players of any signficance "

A significant player would not ruin the 2014 plan if he was significant.

Which brings me back to the original point that there's no timeline - it's a plan, and I think we're looking to do it ASAP. We're not going to waste Kobe's $30M season on another 8 seed. We're going to compete.

And I'll totally take you up on that ticket offer!


I know most dont care to look at the the other side of the trade partner but come one dude, you're talking bout trading a mid 20's guy in his prime for a broken down expiring player for Rubio sake? I know we got Pau for "junk" at the time but lets not think that applies everytime a trade is made. Minn could get plenty of better assest than Pau should they decide to move on from Love, not like Rubio is some sort of franchise saving player here who needs his bff to succeed. Maybe the bolded didn't come out as clear as I wanted to but yes I do think mgmt. would add long term money for the right player and the only way that happens is with Pau trade but I'm not gona hold my breath expecting Kevin Love here.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby therealdeal on Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:52 pm

I actually am with khmrp on this one Chill.

If Minnesota wants Pau (I think they do), then we'll get lucky to get Kirilenko, Williams, Barea at this point. Hell I'd take that package in a second though. Bring in those guys (doesn't really affect our future plans too much) and then we still have the mini-MLE to spend, we can still use the amnesty, and we make Blake/Duhon expendable (nice expiring contracts).

Nash/Barea
Bryant/Meeks
Artest/Clark
Kirilenko/Jamison
Howard/Hill

More balance already.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby Battle Tested20 on Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:02 pm

therealdeal wrote:I actually am with khmrp on this one Chill.

If Minnesota wants Pau (I think they do), then we'll get lucky to get Kirilenko, Williams, Barea at this point. Hell I'd take that package in a second though. Bring in those guys (doesn't really affect our future plans too much) and then we still have the mini-MLE to spend, we can still use the amnesty, and we make Blake/Duhon expendable (nice expiring contracts).

Nash/Barea
Bryant/Meeks
Artest/Clark
Kirilenko/Jamison
Howard/Hill

More balance already.


Sure and I'd more like to see a line-up like this with those players:

Nash/Barea/Blake
Bryant/Meeks/Blake
Kirilenko/Artest or Clark
Williams/Jamison
Howard/Hill

That's a real nice balanced team for sure even though I think Metta could be an amnesty victim.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby khmrP on Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:03 pm

^^^I'd easily take that package too, MWP/Ak47 are both easily interchangle at the Forward position and with Howard in the middle we can get by playing small @ the 4.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby Battle Tested20 on Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:04 pm

I love that Barea has always been so great in the pick and roll. With him and Jamison with that 2nd unit would be golden.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby Center Court on Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:05 pm

therealdeal wrote:I actually am with khmrp on this one Chill.

If Minnesota wants Pau (I think they do), then we'll get lucky to get Kirilenko, Williams, Barea at this point. Hell I'd take that package in a second though. Bring in those guys (doesn't really affect our future plans too much) and then we still have the mini-MLE to spend, we can still use the amnesty, and we make Blake/Duhon expendable (nice expiring contracts).

Nash/Barea
Bryant/Meeks
Artest/Clark
Kirilenko/Jamison
Howard/Hill

More balance already.


before I'd say lets move Pau for that deal, I'd really want to see a) how Pau and Dwight play together from here on out b) if Pau's struggles are more health or more age c) who out coach is and what his system will be.

If we say F it and fire Mike favor of would know how to use 2 bigs (PJ and maybe Byron Scott) then we should keep Pau. However, I don't see us firing MDA, and so Pau should be be moved. Mike can't make Pau work consistently in his system and while maybe he can slow things down, he still needs spacing, 3 point shooters, and speed. None of which are Pau anymore.

I still think D Will can develop into a 16/8 guy and AK is good PF fit. Barea would able to probe and open opportunities for others. If that's all we could get, then I'd do it, but a part of me still hopes we make this thing work- if it's possible.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby Chillbongo on Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:06 pm

I'm not disputing that Minny could get better. And to hold our breaths expecting Love is foolish.

Personally if that's the best we can get I'd almost want to let Gasol expire. I understand the value of contract money coming back for pieces, but Kirlenko is STUPID paid....proportionally his contract is as bad as Pau's at $10M. Barea is paid until 2015 and Williams until 2016 I believe. I do like what Barea brings though.

I think that is what khmrp is referring to in terms of "ruining" the 2014 plan. I'd much rather let Gasol expire if and only if that's the best we can get.

Realistically I think we can move Nash and Pau for some legitimate help.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby khmrP on Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:10 pm

Battle Tested20 wrote:I love that Barea has always been so great in the pick and roll. With him and Jamison with that 2nd unit would be golden.


I know it failed already defensively with blake @ the 2 but I'd have Blake/Barera play together....Dall got away with it by playing small with Terry/Barera, this is small ball league anyways. At this point I'd trust Blake with his 3pt shooting then I do with Meeks.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby khmrP on Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:12 pm

Chillbongo wrote:I'm not disputing that Minny could get better. And to hold our breaths expecting Love is foolish.

Personally if that's the best we can get I'd almost want to let Gasol expire. I understand the value of contract money coming back for pieces, but Kirlenko is STUPID paid....proportionally his contract is as bad as Pau's at $10M. Barea is paid until 2015 and Williams until 2016 I believe. I do like what Barea brings though.

I think that is what khmrp is referring to in terms of "ruining" the 2014 plan. I'd much rather let Gasol expire if and only if that's the best we can get.

Realistically I think we can move Nash and Pau for some legitimate help.


fyi AK47 also expires and what do we get out of Pau expiring over having Barear/Williams on the team? Its not like they have cap killing contracts.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby Chillbongo on Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:12 pm

Ok, I take it back. We can't let Gasol expire. He has to be moved, but I know Mitch will shop before accepting that deal. Williams is unproven and Kirilenko makes too much, even for that one year.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby therealdeal on Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:15 pm

khmrP wrote:
Chillbongo wrote:I'm not disputing that Minny could get better. And to hold our breaths expecting Love is foolish.

Personally if that's the best we can get I'd almost want to let Gasol expire. I understand the value of contract money coming back for pieces, but Kirlenko is STUPID paid....proportionally his contract is as bad as Pau's at $10M. Barea is paid until 2015 and Williams until 2016 I believe. I do like what Barea brings though.

I think that is what khmrp is referring to in terms of "ruining" the 2014 plan. I'd much rather let Gasol expire if and only if that's the best we can get.

Realistically I think we can move Nash and Pau for some legitimate help.


fyi AK47 also expires and what do we get out of Pau expiring over having Barear/Williams on the team? Its not like they have cap killing contracts.

Gasol expiring doesn't help us though. It just means a guy expires and we ask ourselves "should we bring him back for cheap?"

Kirilenko gets paid a lot, but he expires next season. Barea gets paid in 2015, but only 4 million. And Williams on a rookie deal means if we don't want him, can't we not pick up his rookie option?
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby lakersin4 on Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:18 pm

I'd take AK + Barea alone.. Dwill2 is a good trade chip for the future though.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby Battle Tested20 on Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:19 pm

khmrP wrote:
Battle Tested20 wrote:I love that Barea has always been so great in the pick and roll. With him and Jamison with that 2nd unit would be golden.


I know it failed already defensively with blake @ the 2 but I'd have Blake/Barera play together....Dall got away with it by playing small with Terry/Barera, this is small ball league anyways. At this point I'd trust Blake with his 3pt shooting then I do with Meeks.

I'd be fine with that too. I really like the chemistry that Blake and Jamison have established so I don't necessarily want to forget about that either.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby therealdeal on Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:32 pm

Battle Tested20 wrote:
Sure and I'd more like to see a line-up like this with those players:

Nash/Barea/Blake
Bryant/Meeks/Blake
Kirilenko/Artest or Clark
Williams/Jamison
Howard/Hill

That's a real nice balanced team for sure even though I think Metta could be an amnesty victim.

I don't know if I'd start Williams. I think I'd still start Clark because of the continuity and the pure WORK.

Give me Williams, Barea, Meeks, Jamison, and Hill off the bench. That's a lot of youth and a lot of energy. Defense would be tough to come by, but that unit could score with ease.
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