Free Agent Frenzy: Wayne Ellington signed (423)

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby Ariza3 on Tue May 22, 2012 1:49 am

Drew is extremely valuable to the lakers. He needs to grow up and mature as a person and player. He also needs to get into a defined defensive role on this team. hes got to stop worrying about "his numbers". kobe needs to get him to believe in that.

mike brown needs to change up the whole "feed the bigs" offense bc that wont work anymore. drew is useful but the offense cannot run through him, not mature enough for that and too selfish.

if we can somehow fix that issue and get drew to agree to a defined role that is NOT offense option #1 or #2 than he will do us well. it may be hard or unorthodox but it'll get us to he finals. with a good PG and with Kobe drew will get "his numbers" and be happy but also they will be easy points so he can use his energy on d and boards. expect more double doubles out of him if he does that. phil had drew's role right...use it. defensive anchor and with a pg he will still be a offensive threat just not ball dominating
Image
User avatar
Ariza3

 
Posts: 4701
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:28 pm

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby Forward Three on Tue May 22, 2012 2:00 am

I'm thinking the Lakers need to ditch the 'twin towers' concept. Phil Jackson was extremely capable of handling 2(really 2.5) "7 footers" (2.5 if you count Odom's lanky 6'10). Phil was good about size at every position on the floor really. Mike Brown... not so much. So often this season and postseason Brown looked to be literally just trying stuff somewhat desperately to find something that worked. There was no overarching approach for how to incorporate a 7-footer who is one of the biggest guys in the league and a beast in the paint with a 7-footer who is one of the best passing big men and all around skilled bigs. Collectively, the pair had a few memorable games and more than a few memorable moments. There really was 'something' there, but I think the combination of the rest of the team's construction, the new (and, let's face it, kind of average) head coach really didn't figure out how to make that work.

And, of course, Bynum and Gasol share in the responsibility as well.

So, Lakers probably need to ditch that approach and accept that it is a guard-dominated league right now and screen and roll, and cutting and slashing is not only where most teams are making their bread but also where the officiating is biasing towards and just generally what is going on.

My gut feeling is that we should keep Bynum. Bynum will never be Shaq, but at his best, he is something approaching that level of dominance at least and even though the league doesn't really like that type of big man at the moment, I still generally believe that the Shaq/Kobe type team approach is a little bette than the "our front court is bigger than your front court" type of team.

Gasol has kind of 'lost it'. He's still good, he's still skilled he's still talented but he's nowhere near as dependable and consistent and reliable as he was for 08-'10 (and realistically, for his entire career before that as well, I had an eye on him before and he's always been rock solid at a minimum). I don't know if he just doesn't want to live up to the pressure cooker that is Los Angeles basketball, or if he is content with 2 rings 3 Finals appearances and his life in Southern CA. I highly suspect whatever it 'is', has got to be more emotional/mental than anything else. It's not like he is just going to lose his basketball skills. That it has been kind of developing like this since last season, I don't know, he just doesn't seem like a tenable long-term (or even medium term) asset for this team anymore.

Which is sad because I think he is a fantastic player and by all accounts probably one of the nicer and most humble guys in the league, versus Bynum who is still has some maturity hurdles that he has no interest in jumping.

Outside of that, the journeymen need to go. That's Barnes, Blake and Murphy. They're all basically has-been midrange talents who might have had some upsides at some points in their careers but who you really aren't going to build a championship team out of. I'd rather take chances with guys like Ebanks, Eyenga, Goudelock and the other R-2 year players.

Don't really know if any of the numbers will add up in the Lakers favor though, might just have to grit through 2012-2013 for a real rebuild in 2014.
Forward Three

 
Posts: 4596
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:17 pm

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby Frank Dux on Tue May 22, 2012 2:02 am

KeepBynum wrote:Anthony Davis? :man10:

So you wanna trade a proven elite big man for an unproven rookie who for all we know could be a bust? Even worse than the Noah/Deng suggestion.

Listen folks Bynum ain't going anywhere. Quit throwing hissy fits because it ain't happening. There isn't another center worth trading him for excellent Howard and as its been said many times. He's a little immature so what? He's 24 for God's Sake. Everyone is immature at that age.


Our "proven big" also happens to be a cancer, an underachiever, lazy, and a douchebag off the court. We all know what he's capable of, but he seems more concerned about padding his stats, and proving a point, than playing team ball, anchoring the defense, and winning basketball games. That's not the attitude we need around here.

Davis is far from being "unproven" he flat out dominated the tournament, and led his team to a national title. He's a proven winner, has impeccable timing, and will be an elite shot blocking, and elite P&R defensive big at the next level.

Yeah it's a risky trade, but Davis has a much better mentality than Bynum. At worst Davis is going to be KG on defense, and an average offensive player. No more excuses for Bynum. he's not a youngster anymore, and his attitude has been getting worse. His lack of focus was the difference maker this post season.

Bynum might always be "better on paper" than guys like Davis, but what you fail to realize is that it's not always about having the better player, than the right player for your team with the right attitude.
User avatar
Frank Dux

 
Posts: 4203
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:24 pm

Re: Offseason

Postby eltoro on Tue May 22, 2012 6:42 am

Steve Blake at 4 million,
Jeremy Lin at 0.8 million.

Lin becomes a free agent on July 1.
eltoro

 
Posts: 493
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 10:34 pm

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby BadCoaching on Tue May 22, 2012 6:58 am

Unless Mike Brown and his entire staff is replaced with a legit coach/staff than they may as well blow the entire team up and work to get Kobe to a contending team. It isn't fair he's again shouldering the team, and all of the blame associated with his crappy team mates, because of poor management and poor hiring decisions.
User avatar
BadCoaching

 
Posts: 4223
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 9:07 pm

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby shaq222 on Tue May 22, 2012 7:38 am

First thing is.....Brown will be our coach next year, i am not happy about that at all, but we need to accept that.....that story is over...
So first thing is to trade Pau....i dont wont to say anything bad about Pau, I just want to saw him traded.....tnx for everything he do for Lakers, but its time to say goodbye......
what to do.....someone propose trade with Washington and I agree.....they need big guy, they have enough young guys there.....so trade Pau for Seraphin and 1st round pick.....Seraphin is nice young guy and he would be great backup for Drew......also I think we need to sign Brooks, he is better then Sessions and cheaper too....draft is always a gamble but its time to gamble .........so if we make that trade this is our team in my opinion.....
Brooks/Blake
Kobe/SG(1st r pick)/ Glock
Metta/Ebanks
Odom/ PF(1st r pick)
Bynum/Seraphin
well we have one dilemma.....what to choose from the draft....SG or PF....in my opinion its better to choose PF(i would prefer Robinson) and then sign some FA to be backup for kobe....maybe randy foy or nick young....or Michale Redd maybe, he is good shooter.....we need player like him.......he would be real danger from 3s
shaq222

 
Posts: 451
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:58 am

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby Ludachris on Tue May 22, 2012 8:40 am

I just don't see depending on the draft the best way to take advantage of Kobe's last few good years. I think we need to take a bigger gamble and ditch the Bynum (and Gasol) plans and get a star wing player or athletic PF - an all star or one with all star potential and combine that with a very good PG instead of having all the money tied up in Bynum (and Gasol). I think we should move that money to a wing player and a PG, and just get a decent Center (like a Perkins) or one with potential (like a Pekovic). Forget about Howard and/or Bynum. Move towards a running team that can execute half court with Kobe and dictate the pace with a really good PG. The Center position would no longer be the skilled position that fills the stat sheets. Take the two big salaries of Bynum ad Gasol and turn that into skilled perimeter and wing players and a decent center, and get a better bench.

I know that's not the popular opinion, but it seems like something worth moving towards.
Buck Foston, LA Rules
Ludachris

 
Posts: 445
Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 7:34 am

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby brickshooter on Tue May 22, 2012 8:49 am

I prefer moving Gasol and replacing him with Odom. Then moving Bynum for Howard who will likely be roasted by the Orlando press for the firing of Otis & Van Gundy. Then making a move for Chris Paul in 2014.

2013 will be Kobe-Howard-Odom-Artest.

2014 will be Paul-Howard & pieces. Kobe may possibly still play depending on his health.
brickshooter

 
Posts: 879
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 8:26 am

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby davriver290 on Tue May 22, 2012 8:56 am

In a way I don't want to see Gasol go. I love the guy (as a person) he's been nothing but a professional. But the way he played (I don't know if it was him or by Mike Brown's design) was just awful. He stood to far away from the basket and didn't even post up Durant when he was guarding him. Saddens me. So I'm torn on Gasol. Plus the money issues don't make it any easier.

Sigh, I would just surround this core with shooters and keep them, but it looks like Gasol is gonna be that odd man out. I love him to death, but changes are needed.
Sessions, Kobe, Metta, Gasol, Bynum
User avatar
davriver290

 
Posts: 5711
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:14 pm

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby KentuckyLaker on Tue May 22, 2012 8:58 am

Kobe, World Peace, Sessions, Hill, Ebanks...the others can pack up and go to China for all I care
"Everything negative- pressure, challenges -is all an opportunity for me to rise. "

- Kobe Bryant


Bred and raised in the hills of Eastern Kentucky, following the Lakers and UK Wildcats for life.
User avatar
KentuckyLaker

 
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 3:51 pm

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby jlkr on Tue May 22, 2012 9:10 am

Bynum for Anthony Davis, filler and TPE. Have to remember Orlando fired the team leadership; that's what Dwight wanted, they gave it to him. Methinks he will sign that extension with them. I'm not sold on him for the Lakers anyway and I would not trade Bynum for him; ORL would have to sweeten that trade, not the Lakers. So Bynum for top pick in the draft. I think Charlotte bites.

Gasol for Beasley, filler and TPE
amnesty Blake
filler should include a replacement backup PG
retain Ebanks and Hill; groom them
Sessions will not now exercise his option, no one will pay him more given his showing. So he'll come back, get a full training camp and be motivated to show what he's got.
Bring Odom back for minimum, highly doubtful anyone offers more in the wake of last season's meltdown

Davis/Hill
Odom/Beasley
MWP/Ebanks
Bryant/backup (I'm not sold on Goudelock here, he's toast against the bigger SG's in the league)
Sessions/backup

With this, they'll go into 2013 below the cap and perhaps have the space to swing some sort of deal for a big name PG. In 2014, Kobe's deal expires, he will be in noticeable decline by then, no new max deal for him. Also he will be 36 so he can sign for two years at most at that age, that's it. Or he may decide to hang them up. Depends on his health. In particular, how long that knee can hold up even with the new treatments.
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

--Robert Frost
User avatar
jlkr

 
Posts: 4203
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: your friendly neighborhood bar

Re: Offseason

Postby khmrP on Tue May 22, 2012 9:20 am

KeepBynum wrote:Are you serious?

You would seriously trade Andrew Bynum for Noah/Deng? Wow just wow.


yep, unlike you I dont an have affinity to dbag players who dont give their all, no matter how talented they are. The day Kobe retires and Bynum is still here, we'll be the bottom feeders of the pacific if not the entire west.
User avatar
khmrP

 
Posts: 10448
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 10:45 pm

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby Ludachris on Tue May 22, 2012 9:22 am

brickshooter wrote:I prefer moving Gasol and replacing him with Odom. Then moving Bynum for Howard who will likely be roasted by the Orlando press for the firing of Otis & Van Gundy. Then making a move for Chris Paul in 2014.

2013 will be Kobe-Howard-Odom-Artest.

2014 will be Paul-Howard & pieces. Kobe may possibly still play depending on his health.

Replacing Bynum for Howard is a decent upgrade but puts us in the same position we are now really - with no quickness or skill in the wing and PG positions. All the money is still tied up in the Center position. I'd love to have Odom back to help strengthen the bench or even to start, but that might not happen, and even if it does, it doesn't address the PG and SF positions. Simply trading Gasol won't do that for us either.

I think going after Howard is the wrong move - he's too expensive and doesn't change the structure of the team enough to best utilize Kobe. And I see Kobe being around after 2014, he will simply be more of a role player at that age - probably still a very good one too. We need to stop thinking about trying to trade one star for a better star and look at trading for multiple "lesser" stars at different positions. Instead of upgrading the Center position, let's move the money from Gasol and Bynum to the SF and PG positions, and get decent players to fill the PF and C positions, similar to how OKC and San Antonio are structured. Maybe put in a lower priced young player with potential at PF like a Derrick Williams or even Beasley and a solid veteran work horse C that isn't an all star, and work towards bringing in an all star PG and/or SF to compliment Kobe. Guys who can run in transition, drive to the hoop fearlessly, and shoot well from the outside. If we trade Bynum and Gasol, we can likely get most of that and keep the young talent we already have and develop them.
Buck Foston, LA Rules
Ludachris

 
Posts: 445
Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 7:34 am

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby Ludachris on Tue May 22, 2012 10:47 am

Again, I know this is not the popular opinion around here, but what if we did something like this:

- Trade Bynum and pieces for really good PG and bench shooters/speed. Won't be an even trade for us, but we'll get something really good in return.

- Trade Gasol and pieces for a really good SF and maybe decent big man with expiring contract.

Potential trades could bring in players like:

PG - Deron Williams (highly unlikely, and impossible if he opts out)
PG - Ricky Rubio (not likely, but Bynum could be enough)
PG - Kyle Lowry (not as good but could bring in other good players or expiring contracts to make up for it)
PG - Rajon Rondo (not my favorite but he'd compliment Kobe and an athletic SF well)

SF - Andre Iguodala
SF - Luol Deng
SF - Derrick Williams
SF- Danilo Gallinari (I know, not the most exciting option)
SF- Danny Granger

Go after some key free agents like:

PF - Ryan Andersen
SG - George Hill
F/G- Brandon Rush
G- Chauncey Billups
F - Lamar Odom

We obviously won't have a bunch of money to spend on free agents, so the plan would be to try and get as much as possible while trimming cap space when trading Bynum and Gasol. Will we get equal value from either of those two? No, and we shouldn't be looking at it that way. The goal isn't to bring in two big names in exchange for these two, it's to bring in one big name and a good third option while getting younger, faster, more athletic, and improving shooting. The trick is obviously to also get down closer to the cap.

I know everyone wants to hold on to Bynum or get equal value in one player back, but try to look at it in terms of getting back a better combination to compliment Kobe and another skilled player.
Last edited by Ludachris on Tue May 22, 2012 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Buck Foston, LA Rules
Ludachris

 
Posts: 445
Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 7:34 am

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby XXIV on Tue May 22, 2012 10:50 am

Quick question, do we have any draft picks for this upcoming draft? I know we traded a couple 1st rounders for Hill/Sessions, but do we have a second round draft pick?
XXIV

 
Posts: 6390
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:20 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby khmrP on Tue May 22, 2012 11:16 am

XXIV wrote:Quick question, do we have any draft picks for this upcoming draft? I know we traded a couple 1st rounders for Hill/Sessions, but do we have a second round draft pick?


last pick of the draft via Chi :man10:
User avatar
khmrP

 
Posts: 10448
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 10:45 pm

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby MusixFinest on Tue May 22, 2012 11:35 am

I would try to swing a deal for Roy Hibbert and filler (I like Paul George) for Bynum. Let Ebanks or Barnes go. Then, trade Gasol for Scola, Martin, and Dragic. Re-sign Sessions and Hill. Trade Blake for a future 2nd round draft pick.

Dragic | Sessions | Morris
Kobe | Martin | Goudelock
George | Peace | Ebanks/Barnes
Scola | Hill | McRoberts
Hibbert | Hill

We get a solid, defensive big man, who will go after rebounds and block shots. We get a veteran, hard-nosed PF who won't get pushed around. We get a young SF stud AND a back-up for Kobe. And Sessions can go back to being a back-up (or improve himself in the summer and earn the starting spot).
MusixFinest

 
Posts: 311
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:24 pm

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby therealdeal on Tue May 22, 2012 11:44 am

MusixFinest wrote:I would try to swing a deal for Roy Hibbert and filler (I like Paul George) for Bynum. Let Ebanks or Barnes go. Then, trade Gasol for Scola, Martin, and Dragic. Re-sign Sessions and Hill. Trade Blake for a future 2nd round draft pick.

Dragic | Sessions | Morris
Kobe | Martin | Goudelock
George | Peace | Ebanks/Barnes
Scola | Hill | McRoberts
Hibbert | Hill

We get a solid, defensive big man, who will go after rebounds and block shots. We get a veteran, hard-nosed PF who won't get pushed around. We get a young SF stud AND a back-up for Kobe. And Sessions can go back to being a back-up (or improve himself in the summer and earn the starting spot).


Bynum is not worth both George and Hibbert. In fact Indiana isn't trading either of those two for anyone short of LeBron/Wade/Durant. They're trying to build around those guys. There's been rumors that they're willing to let go of Granger to give George more room; that's how much they like him.
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 40357
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby brickshooter on Tue May 22, 2012 12:13 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if the Lakers and Rockets are reopenning their talks. Last season the deal was:

Gasol for
Dragic, Scola, Martin and the Knicks 1st round pick.
brickshooter

 
Posts: 879
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 8:26 am

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby therealdeal on Tue May 22, 2012 12:19 pm

brickshooter wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the Lakers and Rockets are reopenning their talks. Last season the deal was:

Gasol for
Dragic, Scola, Martin and the Knicks 1st round pick.


Same. Especially if they're looking to hold onto Peace now which seems likely. Ron is a good running mate next to Kobe and showed that he can still be part of that All-NBA type defensive squad.

My hope before Ron broke out was to trade Gasol to either Indy or Philly since both of them have borderline star SFs that can score, defend, and help keep the pressure off of Kobe. I think now the best bet would be to look for either a home run PG or try to diffuse Pau into our bench for some much needed depth.
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 40357
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby Frank Dux on Tue May 22, 2012 12:28 pm

brickshooter wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the Lakers and Rockets are reopenning their talks. Last season the deal was:

Gasol for
Dragic, Scola, Martin and the Knicks 1st round pick.


I think by now Dragic is off limits. Lowry might be available though. I hate Scola's contract. so maybe a third team would have to be involved... Maybe Minny? Derrick Williams, and Beasely?
User avatar
Frank Dux

 
Posts: 4203
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:24 pm

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby eltoro on Tue May 22, 2012 12:40 pm

brickshooter wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the Lakers and Rockets are reopenning their talks. Last season the deal was:

Gasol for
Dragic, Scola, Martin and the Knicks 1st round pick.




Atlanta is going to totally blow things up and overhaul their own team. They have way better players than the Rockets. Even Joe Johnson is going to be put on the trading block.
eltoro

 
Posts: 493
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 10:34 pm

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby therealdeal on Tue May 22, 2012 12:50 pm

eltoro wrote:
brickshooter wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the Lakers and Rockets are reopenning their talks. Last season the deal was:

Gasol for
Dragic, Scola, Martin and the Knicks 1st round pick.




Atlanta is going to totally blow things up and overhaul their own team. They have way better players than the Rockets. Even Joe Johnson is going to be put on the trading block.

says who?
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 40357
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby eltoro on Tue May 22, 2012 12:54 pm

therealdeal wrote:
eltoro wrote:
brickshooter wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the Lakers and Rockets are reopenning their talks. Last season the deal was:

Gasol for
Dragic, Scola, Martin and the Knicks 1st round pick.




Atlanta is going to totally blow things up and overhaul their own team. They have way better players than the Rockets. Even Joe Johnson is going to be put on the trading block.

says who?



Says who?! Says, Kenny, Charles, Shaq , EJ, Reggie, Kerr, and pretty much anyone who commented after Atlanta lost early in the playoffs again.

Atlanta is willing to deal.
eltoro

 
Posts: 493
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 10:34 pm

Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who to keep / who to get?)

Postby borri on Tue May 22, 2012 12:57 pm

^^^

I wouldn't place too much faith in TNT's commentators' "inside" info if I were you.
User avatar
borri

 
Posts: 8037
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:16 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Lakers Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests

cron
Advertise Here | Privacy Policy | ©2008 Sculu Sports. Come Strong.