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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby eltoro on Mon May 21, 2012 11:25 pm

Deron Williams is going to be a free agent, and the Nets are going to lose him for practically nothing. So yeah, we offer Gasol for D. Wills. Orlando gonna lose Dwight Howard to free agency too. They will gladly take Bynum for Howard, but that trade might bite us in the gluteus maximus. Howard is an atrocious free throw shooter, while Bynum is probably the best 7ft center at free free throw shooting today.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby Doc Brown on Mon May 21, 2012 11:26 pm

^^^You ever seen Dirk Nowitzki shoot free throws?
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby jbum on Mon May 21, 2012 11:44 pm

Kobe (you kidding?)
Metta, Hill, Ebanks (like these guys, see the blocks by ebanks???)

These guys are borderline:
Bynum, sessions (drew's attitude sucks, sessions really added nothing in the playoffs)
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby thisbjgz on Mon May 21, 2012 11:51 pm

Kobe, Metta, Goudlock(I just think he can become something in this league), Hill, Ebanks

everyone else can go for all I care.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby Alcindor on Mon May 21, 2012 11:59 pm

Doc Brown wrote:^^^You ever seen Dirk Nowitzki shoot free throws?


He said "center"
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Re: Dirk Nowitzki

Postby JUST-MING on Tue May 22, 2012 12:01 am

Alcindor wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:
ElToro wrote:Bynum is probably the best 7ft center at free free throw shooting today.

You ever seen Dirk Nowitzki shoot free throws?

He said “center”.

Dirk played Center under Nellie one year.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby karacha on Tue May 22, 2012 12:21 am

You know, I've changed my mind. I would like to keep Kobe. Also, Sessions deserves a chance to play one full season and World Peace played with heart and is still good role-player when he's in shape. The rest can go.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby FabFourLakers on Tue May 22, 2012 12:28 am

I think Bynum needs to go.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby The Original 81 on Tue May 22, 2012 12:29 am

L4L wrote:If I was Mitch, I'd truly consider moving Bynum. Sessions was the right idea, but his inability to hit a three made him hard to play for significant minutes. I'd love to see how this team could operate with a point guard that had the talent and athleticism to run the break and get in the paint, but also the ability to space the floor from three.

As Ebanks improves, a player like this would allow our second unit, minus Kobe, to actually run. A few years back, we were able to squeeze some productivity out of the bench mob, that we might not otherwise have gotten, by speeding up the pace. It also made us one of the best offenses in the entire league due to our versatility. Admittedly, Odom was a big part of that. Gasol is actually fairly athletic compared to many centers, though. He's definitely capable of running when needed. In half-court situations, or really any time, this type of unit could still run a lot of PnR to emphasize the new found strength at PG and to keep the offense productive in stretches where Bryant was sitting.

Murphy fell out of favor and I don't think he's a great fit next to Gasol, but playing an athletic stretch four, not a freak but just athletic enough to hedge and recover effectively, would allow Bryant to get low post touches without destroying the spacing due to Pau's ability to space the floor from the high post. I think this could effectively elongate Bryant's career as well as vastly improve the efficiency of "Kobe Ball" in crunch time which we always seem to go to one way or another. There aren't more than a handful of perimeter players who can realistically handle Bryant on the block.

I thought that the main problems with the team this year came down to the poor spacing and the inability to defend the PnR effectively. I know of a few posters, or maybe just one, who will protest to the contrary, but I don't think Bynum will ever be a very good pick and roll defender. Frankly, Gasol isn't usually very good either, but he is both faster and more agile. I think his tools are more suited to the task. In the past, we've played Odom or Hill fairly significant minutes because both are/were athletic enough to do a better job. When our other bigs were put in PnR, we've relied on the inefficiency of mid-range jumpers. Westbrook hasn't been the first PG to burn this strategy.

I thought the other glaring issue was the poor spacing which was due primarily, of course, to our inability to hit the three. That said, I do think that Kobe's game is severely hindered by having both Gasol and Bynum on the floor at the same time. There are only so many sets you can use when you need one big next to the rim, one around the paint, all while a guard is trying to post up. Undeniably, our best offense was always with something like Shooter/Shooter/Bryant/Odom/Gasol and I truly believe spacing was the primary reason that was the case. We're no longer running the triangle exclusively, but a mid-post, pinch-post, and low-post Kobe iso's are still our best offensive options. If teams don't double him from there, he'll put up 30+ on 45%+ every single game. With Gasol AND Bynum in the game, it's almost impossible to get him those kinds of touches without overloading the weak side. Whenever we do that, teams just go to that quasi-zone, pack the paint, and dare Kobe to drive into 3-4 guys. The Celtics wrote the blue print nearly five years ago and now that our perimeter shooting is even worse and Kobe's athleticism is declining, it is even more effective. We might be able to fix this with better three point shooting to some degree, but with both Bynum AND Gasol on the floor with Kobe, unless we send Pau to the corner which, in all fairness, did happen a couple times this year, teams will always look to pack the paint against the Lakers.

This brings me back around to the beginning. This Lakers team is very, very talented and I honestly don't believe there is THAT much that separates us from a team like OKC. I truly believe many of you are severely overreacting. Something has to be done, though. I don't personally believe this team count on internal improvement. A "feed the bigs first and always" identity doesn't suit a Kobe Bryant led team in my humble opinion. While Kobe can still play at an elite level, and he can when he doesn't catch the ball at 20+ feet from the rim, I believe the dynamic and identity of the team should be constructed to emphasize his amazing skill set. Currently, as it stands, I don't believe it does. Really, I don't think the dynamic maximizes ANY of our talent. If we're going to do anything this off-season, I believe we should break up the twin tower dynamic.

And the tower I'd look to move first is Andrew Bynum.


I had a feeling you'd come here with your opinion as to how to improve this team. Great analysis. I wish you'd stick around.

I agree that our offense just simply doesn't work as constructed.
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Re: Offseason

Postby JUST-MING on Tue May 22, 2012 12:33 am

FabFourLakers wrote:I think Bynum needs to go.

There is a trade with Chicago that I might be interested in, which doesn’t involve Derrick Rose.
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Re: Offseason

Postby khmrP on Tue May 22, 2012 12:36 am

JUST-MING wrote:
FabFourLakers wrote:I think Bynum needs to go.

There is a trade with Chicago that I might be interested in, which doesn’t involve Derrick Rose.


noah/deng and we've got a deal :man1:....follow that up with Pau/Mcbob/Blake for Dragic S&T/Scola/Ny #1
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby BDG on Tue May 22, 2012 12:40 am

thisbjgz wrote:Kobe, Metta, Goudlock(I just think he can become something in this league), Hill, Ebanks

everyone else can go for all I care.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby The Rock on Tue May 22, 2012 12:42 am

Pau has to go. Its time. 2 years in a row now where he couldn't even try his hardest out there.

Id give Sessions one more run with our team. He was just shell shocked by the pressure of the playoffs. Remember in 2008 when Pau arrived he had his fair share of problems too. Outside of the 1st round series vs DEN, he was pretty routinely outplayed by his counterpart
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby Ariza3 on Tue May 22, 2012 12:50 am

As long as Kobe is on the Lakers, the offense MUST be built around him. It doesn't matter if he's played 40+ mins every game or being guarded by the best defender in the league...he's gunna demand the ball and score himself.

This twin tower stuff where he's expected to give the ball to a overconfident-immature-24 year old-whose healthy for the first time since his rookie year- isnt gunna work with him. We need players surrounding Kobe that do their job well and dont ask questions. Players who respect Kobe and want to win. Kobe will win, you just have to let him.

We need good/great 3 point shooters. We need a center who does the job he's supposed to like defend his paint, rebound, block, box out, tip ins, etc. and wants to WIN RINGS. Not a demand the ball guy bc i want my points.

We also need a REAL PG. a proven PG. Sesh is good dont get me wrong but maybe as a bench player bc of his inexperience and age. Surround Kobe with the right pieces and a right hand man PG who kobe respects and will trust with the ball...we need a high caliber PG bc the way the league is now you need speed and athleticism. in the past a dominate center and length was the formula. now it is a good passing penetrating quick PG and a great scorer who can get his own shot or play off ball with the PG.

thats the way the league is and thats why it is the age of the pointguard. we were trying to use a formula that is outdated and went off talent alone. it got us wins but would not get a championship. weve got to adapt and as long as kobe is still playing at this level (which i think he can for a season or two) then he's gunna need a real good PG. once you get him the rest is simple...

i would still like to keep MWP bc i feel that we need a lockdown defender and the fact that he's finally healthy and a real offseason and training camp will only make him better. I think we should keep sesh ebanks hill and glock. for the 2nd unit or 3rd string. We need a center who is strong long and can run up and down the floor. we need a offensive minded PF also young (beasly/williams like) wouldnt mind Odom coming back imo, think he needs this extended break to get his mind right and playing in LA after his dallas failure would be good for him and he'd play with heart and passion every game i feel (doubt if you want just my opinion). we need a back up for kobe who can SCORE and create his own shot so kobe can get some rest so he can close. and just role players who know their specific role and dont deviate from it...theyre here to win, thats what lakers do and if you dont want to do your job EVERY game than dont come to LA

CP3 would have been PERFECT! i really hate stern for that. our trade was way better than the clippers was anyways.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby KB24 on Tue May 22, 2012 12:52 am

BDG wrote:
thisbjgz wrote:Kobe, Metta, Goudlock(I just think he can become something in this league), Hill, Ebanks

everyone else can go for all I care.
This.

add Sessions to the list.

He is talented and young. He is an unrestricted FA...its not like we get anything in return. So losing one of the few young prospects for nothing would hurt us. If he had a 3 year contract I would ship him out for the right offer but thats not the case.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby Ariza3 on Tue May 22, 2012 12:56 am

KB24 wrote:
BDG wrote:
thisbjgz wrote:Kobe, Metta, Goudlock(I just think he can become something in this league), Hill, Ebanks

everyone else can go for all I care.
This.

add Sessions to the list.

He is talented and young. He is an unrestricted FA...its not like we get anything in return. So losing one of the few young prospects for nothing would hurt us. If he had a 3 year contract I would ship him out for the right offer but thats not the case.


Agreed.

Kobe,Sesh,Ebanks,MWP,Glock,Hill,& Morris (really like him, hes raw and still needs work but the talent is there and hes got a 3 point shot and feel we can make him something. 3rd string of course for now)
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Re: Offseason

Postby JUST-MING on Tue May 22, 2012 12:58 am

khmrP wrote:noah/deng and we’ve got a deal

I tried that via ESPN’s Trade Machine: 7pre742.

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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby NewDynasty on Tue May 22, 2012 1:08 am

I want Brown, Bynum, Gasol, Blake and Barnes gone.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby extreme on Tue May 22, 2012 1:10 am

Kobe, Goudelock, Metta World Peace, Hill and Sessions.
Rest needs to go. Hope we find a good trade for Bynum and Pau.
I hate to see Bynum leave, he's a top center in the league, there aren't many great centers in the league. But he just isn't ready to play decent ball and he needs to shut his mouth
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby John3:16 on Tue May 22, 2012 1:12 am

I better not say they should make some trades b/c every time I do, they don't.

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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby Frank Dux on Tue May 22, 2012 1:33 am

The only player that I would truly miss on this squad is Kobe.

Bynum- Douchebag. It's time for him to go. I really want Anthony Davis wearing purple and gold. Davis is the type of kid that just "gets it". With that said, call me crazy, but I would trade Bynum for the rights to Davis. Davis might take a few years, but I would love watching him develop as a player. I think he's going to be KGesque on the defensive end of the floor. Something Bynum will never achieve on a nightly basis.

Hopefully Gasol still has some value. At this point you just have to move him.

Hill is most certainly welcome back, but it's not imperative that he's resigned. The price has to be right.

Mcbob- Garbage. useless energy player. A waste of the mini MLE

Murphy- GTFO

Metta- I certainly wouldn't waste the amnesty on him, he might have some value around the league. He probably needs to go though. We need a slasher who can shoot and run the floor at the 3. If nothing else, Metta might be better suited for a bench role at this point of his career.

Sessions- Go big or go home. Sputtered miserably at the end of the season, and gave us nothing in the playoffs. I don't care what role Brown gave him, he failed. His stock can't be high though, so we can probably retain him for cheap. I would rather have Dragic, or Lowry though.

The Youngsters: Goudelock, Morris, and Ebanks- I like Ebanks and Goudelock. But I wouldn't blink if they were moved.

Barnes- Gone. I love Barnes, but I don't think we should move ahead with him.

Blake- Bum. More Clipper than Laker.
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Re: Offseason

Postby Texas Lakers Fan on Tue May 22, 2012 1:36 am

khmrP wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
FabFourLakers wrote:I think Bynum needs to go.

There is a trade with Chicago that I might be interested in, which doesn’t involve Derrick Rose.


noah/deng and we've got a deal :man1:....follow that up with Pau/Mcbob/Blake for Dragic S&T/Scola/Ny #1

Are you serious?

You would seriously trade Andrew Bynum for Noah/Deng? Wow just wow.
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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby Lakeshow24 on Tue May 22, 2012 1:39 am

John3:16 wrote:I better not say they should make some trades b/c every time I do, they don't.

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Re: Offseason Overhaul Discussion (who would you like to keep?)

Postby Texas Lakers Fan on Tue May 22, 2012 1:40 am

Anthony Davis? :man10:

So you wanna trade a proven elite big man for an unproven rookie who for all we know could be a bust? Even worse than the Noah/Deng suggestion.

Listen folks Bynum ain't going anywhere. Quit throwing hissy fits because it ain't happening. There isn't another center worth trading him for excellent Howard and as its been said many times. He's a little immature so what? He's 24 for God's Sake. Everyone is immature at that age.
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Re: When the overhaul happens, who would you like to keep?

Postby Frank Dux on Tue May 22, 2012 1:44 am

bruddahmanmatt wrote:Well for starters, Lakerjones, that guy is the most polite member here. Doc Brown, fksteveblake and bystander are near the top for their constant and consistent LOLs, and I really like gcclaker and TIME as mods and Ras as our admin. Obviously I'm on the list because well...it's me. I'd like to keep puffy around for WMC, Rock for Twitter and Cachook for highlights. revgen is a coin flip because I dunno if we'll be able to stay under the "Bynum praise cap". In short, this is NOT going to be easy.



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