Free Agent Frenzy: Lakers Work Out Beasley (408)

Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby XXIV on Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:45 am

Wow the salary is way off from what I (and likely many others) were expecting. I was expecting it at around the $65 million range, but I heard others were thinking it could be up to $70 million.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby lakerfan2 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:54 am

Lionel Hollins leaving Memphis. I'd love him here.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby khmrP on Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:57 am

Its comical when I see posters here wanting us to find a way to get Jennings, when his own team doesn't want to bring him back over just as inefficient chucker no D playing Ellis.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby khmrP on Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:58 am

XXIV wrote:Wow the salary is way off from what I (and likely many others) were expecting. I was expecting it at around the $65 million range, but I heard others were thinking it could be up to $70 million.

dont know where you hearing this stuff from but I heard $60 was the best anyone could've expected.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby XXIV on Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:53 am

khmrP wrote:
XXIV wrote:Wow the salary is way off from what I (and likely many others) were expecting. I was expecting it at around the $65 million range, but I heard others were thinking it could be up to $70 million.

dont know where you hearing this stuff from but I heard $60 was the best anyone could've expected.


710 was estimating it to be close to $70 million.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby OX1947 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:01 pm

If the cap ends up at 70 million, which I doubt it does for Summer of 2014, the Lakers would have 61 million dollars of cap space should they not have Howard and Kobe retires. 61 million dollars free to sign a few max contracts. Only issue is, there isnt much talent in 2014.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby therealdeal on Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:04 pm

You guys are confusing salary cap with luxury tax.

The salary cap would be at around 58 this summer with the luxury tax at near 70.

Next summer it'll be something like 60 and 72.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby Chillbongo on Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:58 pm

So the CAP is $58M but the TAX threshold is at $70M.

What if our payroll comes out to $65M? Are we paying tax on that extra $7M?
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby therealdeal on Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:04 pm

As I understand it: no. Luxury tax penalties will start at 70 million.

In 2014 the Lakers will likely come just below that to avoid the "repeater" tax.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby Chillbongo on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:58 pm

So essentially, we can sign a roster up to $68M without having to suffer the consequences of the tax. Not bad.

If we amnesty Metta, lose Duhon, and lose Sacre, we'll be at $68M.

This is without moving Pau and assuming Dwight walks.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby Weezy on Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:05 pm

I'm lost, what's the point of the cap if you can go 8 to 10 mil over it before luxury taxes? It's not a "cap" on what you can spend if there's no penalty for not exceeding exactly the number it's at, no? Luxury tax threshold is the real cap then, which is why I always thought they were the same thing.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby revgen on Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:14 pm

Last year, 70 million was the Luxury Tax threshold and 58 million was the Salary Cap.

If the Lux Tax Threshold is 71 million next season, then that means the salary cap hasn't raised much either.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby therealdeal on Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:05 pm

Weezy wrote:I'm lost, what's the point of the cap if you can go 8 to 10 mil over it before luxury taxes? It's not a "cap" on what you can spend if there's no penalty for not exceeding exactly the number it's at, no? Luxury tax threshold is the real cap then, which is why I always thought they were the same thing.

There's a Cap limit (58 million projected) and a Luxury tax threshold (70 million+ projected).

There's a bit of gap there I believe because it helps teams retain players that they've had on their team for 3+ years. That way they can build a strong team around a guy and then have enough room to retain him if/when he grows into a larger contract.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby Weezy on Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:12 pm

therealdeal wrote:
Weezy wrote:I'm lost, what's the point of the cap if you can go 8 to 10 mil over it before luxury taxes? It's not a "cap" on what you can spend if there's no penalty for not exceeding exactly the number it's at, no? Luxury tax threshold is the real cap then, which is why I always thought they were the same thing.

There's a Cap limit (58 million projected) and a Luxury tax threshold (70 million+ projected).

There's a bit of gap there I believe because it helps teams retain players that they've had on their team for 3+ years. That way they can build a strong team around a guy and then have enough room to retain him if/when he grows into a larger contract.


See, this I did not know. I have been having arguments for quite a while now speaking as if we go over the 58 mil cap we get taxed, it's why I have been so against giving Dwight max, it's why I have been saying it will be hard as hell to have Dwight and 1 other star a with max deals and a competitive team around them. Had I known that the 58 mil is a pretend number that means nothing and that 68 or 70 is where you get fined, I probably wouldn't have been arguing a lot of what I have this entire season. :man10:
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby The Rock on Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:15 pm

Yea 58 is the cap. Sometimes team go over 58 because they have to re-sign their guys to extensions or what not so the NBA gives them room of about 10-12 million. Ever mil after that is a taxable amount. Obviously teams under the cap enjoy some benefits too such as picking up amnestied FA's, paying Free Agents more than just the BAE, mini MLE,etc
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby therealdeal on Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:14 pm

Weezy wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
Weezy wrote:I'm lost, what's the point of the cap if you can go 8 to 10 mil over it before luxury taxes? It's not a "cap" on what you can spend if there's no penalty for not exceeding exactly the number it's at, no? Luxury tax threshold is the real cap then, which is why I always thought they were the same thing.

There's a Cap limit (58 million projected) and a Luxury tax threshold (70 million+ projected).

There's a bit of gap there I believe because it helps teams retain players that they've had on their team for 3+ years. That way they can build a strong team around a guy and then have enough room to retain him if/when he grows into a larger contract.


See, this I did not know. I have been having arguments for quite a while now speaking as if we go over the 58 mil cap we get taxed, it's why I have been so against giving Dwight max, it's why I have been saying it will be hard as hell to have Dwight and 1 other star a with max deals and a competitive team around them. Had I known that the 58 mil is a pretend number that means nothing and that 68 or 70 is where you get fined, I probably wouldn't have been arguing a lot of what I have this entire season. :man10:


Well that first limit is for players we can't sign from outside of our team. So your gut feeling was partially right. We won't be able to sign one of the outside free agents we're aiming for once we pass that 58 million mark. But we won't get taxed if we stay under 70.

What I'm suspecting could happen is that we re-sign Dwight. We get one more big name target. Then we take it easy on the money for that season and sign only small one-year deals. Then we'll go after someone again in the also lucrative 2015 free agency class.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby Weezy on Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:38 pm

Still, it gives us a cushion with our own players already signed, role players, draft players, stuff like that, that I did not know about.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby therealdeal on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:13 am

True. I'm really hopeful that in 2014 Nash retires and Kobe takes on a really Cap friendly contract. We sign a stud to pair with Dwight and then we have them be our three headed team with some decent role players.

Then in 2015 Kobe can retire and we can have all that cap space again to sign one of the young guns out there like Wall or George or something like that.

That'd be nice.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby lakersin4 on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:57 am

therealdeal wrote:True. I'm really hopeful that in 2014 Nash retires and Kobe takes on a really Cap friendly contract. We sign a stud to pair with Dwight and then we have them be our three headed team with some decent role players.

Then in 2015 Kobe can retire and we can have all that cap space again to sign one of the young guns out there like Wall or George or something like that.

That'd be nice.

Agreed, except the part about Kobe hanging em up after getting 1 more. A big part of me thinks Kobe can play at a higher level than 2/3's of Miami's big 3 for at least 3 more seasons. If it wasn't for the injury, there would be no doubt in my mind. So assuming Kobe does that, unless we get Lebron in 14, I hope we can convince a star to take a 2 year deal with the 2nd a team option. Maybe Granger goes for that? Then if we can get a Wall or George or LMA, we have the option of renouncing Granger if Kobe doesn't retire/we can't create the space another way.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby therealdeal on Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:01 am

1. You're asking a pseudo star to sign a short term contract so we can dump them? Why would we do that?

2. You know Kobe is coming off of an Achilles tear right? He's not going to be outperforming ANY stars for a while.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby The Rock on Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:44 am

The CP3 veto really effed us over. How are the Hornets any better now than they were in 2011, theyre back in the lottery again and they're stuck with Eric Gordon's bad contract for next few years & hes injured all the time.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby lakersin4 on Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:47 am

therealdeal wrote:1. You're asking a pseudo star to sign a short term contract so we can dump them? Why would we do that?

2. You know Kobe is coming off of an Achilles tear right? He's not going to be outperforming ANY stars for a while.

Well, if you're correct about #2 then we won't be doing #1. If Kobe isn't able to play at a superstar level when he comes back, he's going to retire no doubt about it.. So obviously we'd hang on to Granger. Wall/Rondo - Granger - D12, I'll take it.. I suppose it's a bit premature to be discussing either item until we see how they do coming back from their injuries.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby XXIV on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:01 pm

The Rock wrote:The CP3 veto really effed us over. How are the Hornets any better now than they were in 2011, theyre back in the lottery again and they're stuck with Eric Gordon's bad contract for next few years & hes injured all the time.


That's what happens when the league owns a team.
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby khmrP on Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:59 pm

XXIV wrote:
The Rock wrote:The CP3 veto really effed us over. How are the Hornets any better now than they were in 2011, theyre back in the lottery again and they're stuck with Eric Gordon's bad contract for next few years & hes injured all the time.


That's what happens when the league owns a team.


I know its not right to use post transaction to determine value of a trade but just to play that game a bit IF that trade didn't get vetoed

Martin/2 1st for Harden
Odom for tpe/1st pick (tpe netted us Nash, could've netted hornet something great as well)
Scola would've still been with Hornets due to his contract
Dragic- well hard to say on him too, might have exploded same way he did in Hou so either he becomes their PG of the future or could've netted them a pick like Hou did with Lowlry

the #1 pick they got that very next season is hard to determine but I still say that team might have sucked and gotten a lottery pick still
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Re: Roster Improvement: Free Agents Now and Later?

Postby Alleyhoops on Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:20 am

Wow. Can Yasiel Puig play basketball?
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