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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby D.B. Cooper on Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:21 am

This year will be no different when Paul George and the Pacers will win the chip over OKC.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby last stand on Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:53 am

historically great wing players and great bigs win championships.

bird, kobe, jordan, lebron, dr. j, shaq, kareem, wilt, hakeem, duncan, wade

to magic and west

now i'm probably missing someone but my point is ball dominant PGs don't win titles. great wings and bigs do.

this draft has elite talent at wings and bigs. my guess is there will be a multiple championship winner out of this class (wiggins) and it'll be consistent with the history of the NBA. it may not be a bigs league like it has been but dominance down low or on the wing will always be the recipe for titles
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Center Court on Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:23 pm

last stand wrote:historically great wing players and great bigs win championships.

bird, kobe, jordan, lebron, dr. j, shaq, kareem, wilt, hakeem, duncan, wade

to magic and west

now i'm probably missing someone but my point is ball dominant PGs don't win titles. great wings and bigs do.

this draft has elite talent at wings and bigs. my guess is there will be a multiple championship winner out of this class (wiggins) and it'll be consistent with the history of the NBA. it may not be a bigs league like it has been but dominance down low or on the wing will always be the recipe for titles


Agreed. IMO the best big we can possibly get anytime in the next 5 year is available this summer. Embiid. Dude is going to be a monster. I know we're a long shot for a top 3 pick but with all the injuries piling up (to the teams that should be top 3) maybe we can get lucky. I still think Wiggins and Parker are 1 and 2 but IF it were my choice I go with Joel all day.

my wet dream: Embiid in the draft, fill in the roster with 1 year deals then sign Love next year. Bring Phil in as West/Riley role and hire a coach that values bigs. Go from there.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby LakersN4 on Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:42 pm

Not sure why I see so many posters wanting us to get Embiid.. Bigs usually take so much longer to develop.. I'm hoping if we do land a high pick, we draft a wing or PG who can come in & contribute to us contending within his first 2 seasons, while we still have the Mamba to carry us.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Azndude2190 on Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:46 pm

LakersN4 wrote:Not sure why I see so many posters wanting us to get Embiid.. Bigs usually take so much longer to develop.. I'm hoping if we do land a high pick, we draft a wing or PG who can come in & contribute to us contending within his first 2 seasons, while we still have the Mamba to carry us.


I think it's because we've won all our titles with a dominant big being part of a 1-2 punch: Wilt, KAJ, Shaq, and Pau (obviously 08-10). But yea I agree, if we do somehow land a top 3 pick I want to get either Wiggins or Parker before we pick Embiid.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:27 pm

I always hear about how today's NBA has changed so much from before but in my opinion the Lakers should follow the route they've always used: draft a wing/ball handler and acquire a big man.

Like N4 said bigs take longer to develop. Let someone else do it and we'll snatch em up when we're ready. Give me a Wiggins or a Parker first. There's a couple other wings who could help immediately. A big man should only really fall to us in the draft if we don't get one of the first five picks.

Get a wing, aquire a big. Age old formula.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Center Court on Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:34 am

LakersN4 wrote:Not sure why I see so many posters wanting us to get Embiid.. Bigs usually take so much longer to develop.. I'm hoping if we do land a high pick, we draft a wing or PG who can come in & contribute to us contending within his first 2 seasons, while we still have the Mamba to carry us.


IMO Embiid has an incredibly high ceiling. Worst case I see more offensively skilled Roy Hibbert (couple inches smaller though) and bet case I see the next Hakeem with less grace but more size. I guess I even see what "Socks" could have become had injury not derailed him. Big, skilled, soft hands, athletic, smart, great defender, moves well without the ball and never gives up.

I could be wrong but that's what I see as talent level. In terms of why a big over a wing, I guess there is no great reason other than bigs dominate in ways no other player can. I see how Wiggins could go #1 or even Parker and maybe by seasons end I agree... but as of today I'm pretty sold on Joel
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby wcsoldier81 on Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:03 am

You don't want your best player to be a PG ... the best defensive teams coming playoffs time are able to shut down the PNR game ... last time a team won the title with its clear best player being a PG was .. in 1990.

A dominant wing , another solid creator from the perimeter and mobile bigs ... this is the formula to win right now
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby last stand on Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:28 am

therealdeal wrote:I always hear about how today's NBA has changed so much from before but in my opinion the Lakers should follow the route they've always used: draft a wing/ball handler and acquire a big man.

Like N4 said bigs take longer to develop. Let someone else do it and we'll snatch em up when we're ready. Give me a Wiggins or a Parker first. There's a couple other wings who could help immediately. A big man should only really fall to us in the draft if we don't get one of the first five picks.

Get a wing, aquire a big. Age old formula.


i actually think wiggins will fall to #3 which only increases our chances of getting him which would give us the next face of the league

i agree about the acquiring bigs style. even if you just sign kevin love in 2015 to go with a wiggins/parker and kobe your looking at a hell of a team

parker would be the last guy i'd want out of the top 3 just because i can already see a guy who will be relegated to a jump shooter in the NBA. kevin durant gets away with it but he's also more athletic than parker.

i want someone who can get in the paint at will. in the open floored, man to man defense style of the NBA i see wiggins doing that all game long. an absolute freak of nature. almost michael jordan esque in his ability to float, contort, twist himself on the court
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby last stand on Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:33 am

Center Court wrote:
last stand wrote:historically great wing players and great bigs win championships.

bird, kobe, jordan, lebron, dr. j, shaq, kareem, wilt, hakeem, duncan, wade

to magic and west

now i'm probably missing someone but my point is ball dominant PGs don't win titles. great wings and bigs do.

this draft has elite talent at wings and bigs. my guess is there will be a multiple championship winner out of this class (wiggins) and it'll be consistent with the history of the NBA. it may not be a bigs league like it has been but dominance down low or on the wing will always be the recipe for titles


Agreed. IMO the best big we can possibly get anytime in the next 5 year is available this summer. Embiid. Dude is going to be a monster. I know we're a long shot for a top 3 pick but with all the injuries piling up (to the teams that should be top 3) maybe we can get lucky. I still think Wiggins and Parker are 1 and 2 but IF it were my choice I go with Joel all day.

my wet dream: Embiid in the draft, fill in the roster with 1 year deals then sign Love next year. Bring Phil in as West/Riley role and hire a coach that values bigs. Go from there.


i love embiid. he's by far the best center prospect since greg oden. but bigs scare me. unlike wings and guards their talent isn't always what determines their failure

greg oden was the best defensive center in basketball before his injuries. the guy sadly would have been the premier big man in basketball he showed absolute flashes. even after returning from the first microfracture.

bigs can be injury prone without you even knowing it. sometimes their knees are just waiting to give out.

sometimes they get by using their height at lower levels and struggle to deal with guys their size

bigs have so many variables. while he could easily be the next hakeem (he has the talent) he can also be the next greg oden, or the next darko milicic
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby wcsoldier81 on Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:17 am

therealdeal wrote:I always hear about how today's NBA has changed so much from before but in my opinion the Lakers should follow the route they've always used: draft a wing/ball handler and acquire a big man.

Like N4 said bigs take longer to develop. Let someone else do it and we'll snatch em up when we're ready. Give me a Wiggins or a Parker first. There's a couple other wings who could help immediately. A big man should only really fall to us in the draft if we don't get one of the first five picks.

Get a wing, aquire a big. Age old formula.


The game changed a lot as post ups are a rarity in today's game ... on the defensive end , you need more mobile bigs to defend the PNR , help and recover ... look how Duncan slimmed down to adapt .

This is fast/athletic/perimeter oriented league where positions matters a lot less than before .

I definetely agree on getting 1st a dominant wing player though ... as for bigs , a Bosh like player will do the trick ...
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby kenzo on Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:38 am

In this years draft, if you have a top 6-7 pick, you just can't eff it up (in my opinion). Great prospects... time to grab one :man9:
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:44 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:
The game changed a lot as post ups are a rarity in today's game ... on the defensive end , you need more mobile bigs to defend the PNR , help and recover ... look how Duncan slimmed down to adapt .

This is fast/athletic/perimeter oriented league where positions matters a lot less than before .

I definetely agree on getting 1st a dominant wing player though ... as for bigs , a Bosh like player will do the trick ...

It's all relative.

Get a wing who is competent at this level (the rumors that LA was hopeful for Paul George really make sense to me) and get a big that dominates in TODAY'S NBA. It's what we already tried to do with Howard and Paul. We'll try it again this summer and next.

My guess is that the situation has been fluid all along. I'm sure the Lakers considered Carmelo for a long time in the hopes of adding him and then try to figure a way to get Love next summer. Now that we stink and we're working our to a lottery pick, I think the Lakers are thinking about getting one of the 5 or 6 really talented wing players in the draft and then still going after Love in 2015 if we can.

It's still the same formula even if Love isn't the traditional big man you'd think of when thinking "Laker Great Bigs".
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby nduri on Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:22 am

My dream scenario, 2014. Draft Wiggins 1st round, Isaiah Austin 2nd round, sign free agent Stephenson starting pg (assuming Lebron is unavailable), trade Gasol/Hill for Bynum/Thompson, resign Farmar, Johnson, Henry, Young, for one year, Nash retires. 2015, Sign Love. 2016 Kobe's contract is up, Sign Durant and Drummond.

Pg - Lance Stephenson - Jordan Farmar -
Sg - Andrew Wiggins - Nick Young/Xavier Henry
Sf - Kevin Durant - Wesley Johnson/
Pf - Kevin Love - Tristan Thompson (trade?) -
C - Andre Drummond - Isaiah Austin - Robert Sacre

All this is assuming that Lebron is unavailable, Drummond is not a full MAX player, Stephenson comes in on a 4 yr contract @ 8-10mil per, Wesley, Nick, Farmar and X don't sign above market, if they don't, possibly trade Thompson for young assets/future picks, and Kobe retires or signs on REASONABLY for another run at 38 years old.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Center Court on Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:44 am

nduri wrote:My dream scenario, 2014. Draft Wiggins 1st round, Isaiah Austin 2nd round, sign free agent Stephenson starting pg (assuming Lebron is unavailable), trade Gasol/Hill for Bynum/Thompson, resign Farmar, Johnson, Henry, Young, for one year, Nash retires. 2015, Sign Love. 2016 Kobe's contract is up, Sign Durant and Drummond.

Pg - Lance Stephenson - Jordan Farmar -
Sg - Andrew Wiggins - Nick Young/Xavier Henry
Sf - Kevin Durant - Wesley Johnson/
Pf - Kevin Love - Tristan Thompson (trade?) -
C - Andre Drummond - Isaiah Austin - Robert Sacre

All this is assuming that Lebron is unavailable, Drummond is not a full MAX player, Stephenson comes in on a 4 yr contract @ 8-10mil per, Wesley, Nick, Farmar and X don't sign above market, if they don't, possibly trade Thompson for young assets/future picks, and Kobe retires or signs on REASONABLY for another run at 38 years old.


Indiana will match Lance IMO up to $10M. Larry Legend loves him. Drummond is going to get close to max just like Cousins did. Thompson will be up for extension by then and Cleveland probably wants to keep him with Kyrie.

But financially speaking none of that is even possible-- not even close. If that were our team I'd love it and I feel like it's a perfect built team, but it's not possible.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby nduri on Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:35 am

Cousins is a 70% free throw shooter, Drummond is shooting 38%, also Cousins gives you 23 pts to Drummonds 13. I think, numbers wise, he compares to Deandre Jordan (11 mil) and I think that may be what their front office throws at him when the time comes, barring major improvements. I would go a little higher with Stephenson, either get him or make the Pacers pay a bit more to keep him.

The Thompson thing isn't a deal breaker, but when Kobe comes off the books, we'd be looking at 2 contracts around 11 mil and 2 max contracts at around 17 give or take. That is basically less than we have with Pau, Kobe and Nash at the moment.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:38 am

therealdeal wrote:I think the Lakers are best served giving a max deal to either Bledsoe or Monroe. I don't think both would do well...

If you want to go the PG route, which I think is a good one, then force Phoenix to pay Bledsoe the max. If they don't we have Bledsoe for about 13.7 million, Kobe for 23.5 million, our first round pick for about 2 million, and Sacre for 1 million. Let's throw in at least 3 million for Nash. We're at 43.2 million.

If everyone else is on 1 year deals, then we have space the next season to go after Love. Barely enough space, but enough given that the cap raises slightly (and maybe we cut Sacre), we have a shot.

Bledsoe/Kobe/???/Love/Rookie would be a good look I think. In a year make a run at Durant.


Max deal to Bledsoe? Is this a joke? I mean the guy is one of the most athletically gifted guards in the league but he can't even create his own shot. He is NOT a superstar PG and probably never will be.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby nduri on Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:40 am

I got my numbers from the max extension that Paul George signed, I'd imagine that Durant and Love could make more I just don't have the exact numbers yet. I reserve the right to alter my 'dream' based on new information.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby nduri on Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:44 am

Bledsoe isn't a max player, he is a very entertaining player, a player I like a lot, a bigger Nate Robinson. I don't see Bledsoe or Monroe getting a max deal.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:48 am

nduri wrote:Bledsoe isn't a max player, he is a very entertaining player, a player I like a lot, a bigger Nate Robinson. I don't see Bledsoe or Monroe getting a max deal.


Yeah, the guy that Bledsoe reminded me of most was Nate. Both have athleticism off the charts. But since Bled is a few inches taller, he can impact the game a little more. But Nate has superior skills as an offensive player. I really like Bled too, he impacts games with his athleticism.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:00 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
therealdeal wrote:I think the Lakers are best served giving a max deal to either Bledsoe or Monroe. I don't think both would do well...

If you want to go the PG route, which I think is a good one, then force Phoenix to pay Bledsoe the max. If they don't we have Bledsoe for about 13.7 million, Kobe for 23.5 million, our first round pick for about 2 million, and Sacre for 1 million. Let's throw in at least 3 million for Nash. We're at 43.2 million.

If everyone else is on 1 year deals, then we have space the next season to go after Love. Barely enough space, but enough given that the cap raises slightly (and maybe we cut Sacre), we have a shot.

Bledsoe/Kobe/???/Love/Rookie would be a good look I think. In a year make a run at Durant.


Max deal to Bledsoe? Is this a joke? I mean the guy is one of the most athletically gifted guards in the league but he can't even create his own shot. He is NOT a superstar PG and probably never will be.

:man10:

Do you know anything about him?

This year's stats:
18 ppg
5.8 ast pg
4.3 rbnds pg
1.5 stls pg

shooting over 48% from the field, 35% from deep, and nearly 79% from the line.

He'll turn 25 next year. There's few PGs in the game with higher upside.

For comparison:
Westbrook is averaging 21.3/7/6 shooting FAR less efficiently from the field at a higher cost.
Chris Paul is averaging 19.6/11.3/4.7 shooting worse from the field at nearly TWICE the cost.
Tony Parker is averaging 17.8/6.1/2.5 shooting better from the field on the wrong side of 30.
Stephen Curry is averaging 23.4/9.6/4/6 shooting worse from the field at a cheaper cost with twice the injury history.
John Wall is averaging 20.2/8.9/4.3 shooting FAR less efficiently while playing more minutes.
Kyrie Irving is averaging 22.2/6.1/3.0 shooting less efficiently from the field with more injury history.

Are you really going to try to tell me Bledsoe isn't in the conversation with Wall or Irving? Those guys got max deals (or will). By the way he's playing next to Dragic who is also a point guard and is averaging 18.9/5.9/2.9 in more minutes. Bledsoe's assist numbers would go up without another legitimate PG on the team. Not to mention he's a very good defender to boot. Ty Lawson got 4/48 for goodness' sake. Not to mention as well that playing with Dragic shows he's also effective off the ball which is a good thing with Kobe in town.

Bledsoe is absolutely worth the max and that's probably what it would cost to drag him out of Phoenix. If it's less than that, then all the power to us. Unfortunately Phoenix holds the trump card because he's a RFA. If we want him, we have to pay extra. And as a basketball fan you should want Eric Bledsoe on your team.

Honestly I'd rather have Monroe, but Bledsoe would be a very, very good addition too.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby nduri on Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:06 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
nduri wrote:Bledsoe isn't a max player, he is a very entertaining player, a player I like a lot, a bigger Nate Robinson. I don't see Bledsoe or Monroe getting a max deal.


Yeah, the guy that Bledsoe reminded me of most was Nate. Both have athleticism off the charts. But since Bled is a few inches taller, he can impact the game a little more. But Nate has superior skills as an offensive player. I really like Bled too, he impacts games with his athleticism.


Definitely, Bledsoe's height helps him to be a better playmaker, and both he and Nate have the ability to change the pace of the game by themselves. I do like that characteristic in a player, That is why I'm suggesting Lance Stephenson, he has that quality and I think, given the keys to run a team from the PG position, he could really show what he's capable of. Also, I think Bledsoe stays in Phoenix, the offense is perfect for him and he's meshing very well there.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:32 pm

The real deal,

I think u r focusing a bit too much on the numbers. I have seen probably 80% of all of Bleds game as a Clip. I know his game. Yes, he's playing better than most expected but it doesn't change the fact of who he is. His greatest asset is his off the charts athleticism. And in that wide open Suns offense, he gets plenty of chances to run. But he lacks the pure skills of the elite pgs. He's not the type of guy who can just get his own shot consistently when the defender is set. That skill is reserved for only the elite and is the rarest skill in basketball. Again, i loved Bled when he was a Clip but no way in hell s he a amx player.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby trodgers on Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:39 pm

I'd be blown away of Bledsoe got max anywhere ever.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:44 pm

Have you watched his games as a Sun?

I have because the guy is on my fantasy team and has been putting up stellar numbers; I had to see what was going on.

He's a very good pick and roll player. He uses his athleticism nicely. He doesn't have the greatest court vision, but it's definitely good enough to play the PG position in the NBA and the right system (drive and kick to specific spots). He's an elite defender at the position where it's extremely difficult to be an elite defender at.

He doesn't rely on his athleticism, he uses it to his advantage. His shot is vastly improved and still improving. He can create for himself just as well as any PG we could get elsewhere.

For that price we'd be getting a good deal. Someone like Lowry who is maybe as good (big maybe), less durable, and older will be cheaper but won't have the same potential. We're building a team from the bottom up. Bledsoe is an ideal starting PG moving forward. Capable of leading the team when necessary, but also able to play off the ball as we look to find real scoring options like Kobe, Carmelo, Love, etc.
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