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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Weezy on Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:37 pm

Savory Griddles wrote:Kyle Lowry. What is wrong with this guy? He is solid defensively and averages 16.6 and 7.5 on a team that is actually winning. He's also only 27. No one is really talking about him as even a second tier free agent. Does he have major character flaws?


People have talked about trading for Lowry for years here, if it's stopped it's probably because they feel it's not likely or realistic. As for a free agent singing, I didn't even know he was going to be one, and if people haven't mentioned him maybe they feel we need a wing or big ahead of a PG, that seems to be most of the discussion around here.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Savory Griddles on Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:43 pm

Weezy wrote:
Savory Griddles wrote:Kyle Lowry. What is wrong with this guy? He is solid defensively and averages 16.6 and 7.5 on a team that is actually winning. He's also only 27. No one is really talking about him as even a second tier free agent. Does he have major character flaws?


People have talked about trading for Lowry for years here, if it's stopped it's probably because they feel it's not likely or realistic. As for a free agent singing, I didn't even know he was going to be one, and if people haven't mentioned him maybe they feel we need a wing or big ahead of a PG, that seems to be most of the discussion around here.


When I said no one I wasn't just talking about us here on CL. I'm talking about ALL the NBA fan communities and ESPN, etc.

I think He's a great fit and seemingly could be had for 7-8 million. Obviously it would be dictated by who we draft, but Love and Lowry as our two FA's for the next couple offseasons and a swing player (or Embiid if we get #1) in the draft would be a very solid core, I don't know. Seems like a good moneyball type signing.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Weezy on Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:52 pm

Oh, well that I can't say. Maybe it's simply because whenever people talk about the Lakers it's always with huge superstar names, or currently with draft picks and expiring contracts. Or maybe Lowry has indicated he's happy in Toronto. I'd be happy to see him sign here for a reasonable price though, I agree I think that would be a very solid signing for us, you need players like that in addition to stars in order to win.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:54 pm

I think lots of people are talking about him actually. Many people think he was snubbed for the All-Star game.

As for him coming here, I think we have PGs already. I'm fine with rolling with Farmar/Marshall for the foreseeable future. I'd rather target wings and big men.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby LakersN4 on Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:58 pm

I like Lowry he's always been a solid 2 way player but I'm afraid he's playing himself into a contract we can't afford.. We might be better off sticking with Marshall & Farmar. If Lowry could be had for 6-8M he's one of the better bargains in FA & I'd take him before offering Bledsoe the max.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Weezy on Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:00 pm

I was fine with rolling with Farmar and Marshall too until Farmar's leg started "cramping" up last night. I need to see him play out the season without another calf or hamstring injury before I'm ready to say we should keep him on next season. And this is coming from a huge Farmar fan, he needs to show he can stay on the court, because as I said in gameday, we need players, not bodies.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Savory Griddles on Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:13 pm

therealdeal wrote:I think lots of people are talking about him actually. Many people think he was snubbed for the All-Star game.

As for him coming here, I think we have PGs already. I'm fine with rolling with Farmar/Marshall for the foreseeable future. I'd rather target wings and big men.


I'm not comfortable with that. I'm comfortable with either one as a backup, but those two being our pg rotation is questionable. Miami has Chalmers and Indiana has Hill, both of which you could make a case for as being on an equal playing field with Farmar and Marshall. (I personally don't think they are, but you could make a case.) But those two pgs have the best and 3rd best player in the NBA respectively along with starting fives that have 3 all-star caliber players each. Every other "elite" team has a better pg than us. Westbrook, Parker, CP3, Lin. And all the second tier teams have better pgs as well: Curry, Lillard, Dragic.

I just don't think we can compete without a very solid pg. Lowry would be the best pg we've had since Nick Van Exel. The draft we get the wing.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby lakerfan2 on Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:55 pm

It all depends on the offense we're running. Generally speaking, a "normal" coach with Kobe would go through Kobe and not make him a catch and shoot guy in the offense. Kobe creates whether it's his own to players who want to play.

A good PG would be nice, but not necessary with Kobe. Farmar is good because he shoots a good clip from three, but has the ability to finish as well.

What a team with Kobe on it needs is another scorer he can trust. He had that in 2008-2010. Until Pau decided he didn't want to play anymore we saw 2007 Kobe again in 2013, but that didn't fair well with his age. We need someone to share the scoring load. Someone who he can defer to when needed.

Not saying having a good PG is bad, just saying another scorer would be better.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Savory Griddles on Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:29 pm

lakerfan2 wrote:It all depends on the offense we're running. Generally speaking, a "normal" coach with Kobe would go through Kobe and not make him a catch and shoot guy in the offense. Kobe creates whether it's his own to players who want to play.

A good PG would be nice, but not necessary with Kobe. Farmar is good because he shoots a good clip from three, but has the ability to finish as well.

What a team with Kobe on it needs is another scorer he can trust. He had that in 2008-2010. Until Pau decided he didn't want to play anymore we saw 2007 Kobe again in 2013, but that didn't fair well with his age. We need someone to share the scoring load. Someone who he can defer to when needed.

Not saying having a good PG is bad, just saying another scorer would be better.


But I think we need to look past Kobe. Kobe has two more seasons. We are not competing for a title next season (unless LBJ inexplicably comes to LA). So the earliest we could compete for a title is 2015 in the last year of Kobe's contract (and likely his career). We need to look at players that will compliment, for the sake of argument, Wiggins and Love, or J. Parker and Love. I don't think we should pass on solidifying our pg position because of the fear of how it will mesh with Kobe.

Kobe has potentially a one year window to do it in 2015...and even then it's an EXTREME long shot that would require us getting some sort of asset for Pau that turned into a contributor, our high pick panning out and being a star in his second year, the signing of a good FA on a reasonable deal (ie Stephenson or Lowry), and then snagging Love in 2015. We'd be spinning a lot of plates to give Kobe one final shot. We can't be stupid enough to continue to try to build solely around Kobe's strengths.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby earvinfr on Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:38 pm

Since no PG on our team or even in the league can stay healthy, we should not put our pick or big FA money on a PG.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby sister golden hair on Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:20 am

I think Chris Bosh is gettable and is probably the guy they could realistically go after if he opts out. His game has matured quite a bit and could shoulder much more of the load that, say, four or five years ago. I think he's ready to be more than just the third wheel in Miami. I actually think he's their second most important player, and if he left the Heat I'm not certain that James would be long for Miami, either.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby lukewaltonsdad on Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:52 am

Looks like the Lakers could make an offer to Stephenson in the off-season. The link provides a good in depth analysis...I encourage people to read.

The Lakers, Bulls and Bobcats will be among the teams who can and would offer an ample payday and increased opportunity for Stephenson this summer.


http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2 ... rs-bobcats
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Doc Brown on Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:53 am

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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby karacha on Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:21 pm

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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Savory Griddles on Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:49 pm

lukewaltonsdad wrote:Looks like the Lakers could make an offer to Stephenson in the off-season. The link provides a good in depth analysis...I encourage people to read.

The Lakers, Bulls and Bobcats will be among the teams who can and would offer an ample payday and increased opportunity for Stephenson this summer.


http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2 ... rs-bobcats


Too early to ponder who we will offer deals to. It depends completely on our draft position.

If we draft #1 or after 4, we will likely go after Stephenson because we'd be getting a center or pg in the draft (Embiid, Exum, Smart). If we draft 2 or 3 where Wiggins and Parker are likely going, I can't see us going after Stephenson with 2 wings (Kobe and the draft pick) on the roster and we may turn to Lowry, Bledsoe or Monroe.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Doc Brown on Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:52 pm

Stephenson over everything.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Vasashi17 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:28 pm

Like Stephenson, but I'm not sure the FO gives a concerted effort in pursuing him....I hope they do though.

An allstar appearance would have helped, but I really think LA will be cornered into a wall to bring in proven star power. TWC ratings have fallen by 35%. I'm sure those cable execs will be pressuring LA to bring in stars to play across Kobe. Bringing in an allstar would have been a good sell...now, I'm not sure it will.

But like I said, I hope the FO proves me wrong. Stephenson's maturity/attitude could be an issue, but with Kobe and hopefully a coach not named MDA can harness it and use it the right way. He would be a great 2nd tier option for the roster.

I still believe the FO is looking for a star...maybe they feel they got a shot at Lebron, which is why Melo is no longer a priority. But just like Nash, they are probably going to go hard at "names" in the game.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby lukewaltonsdad on Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:42 pm

I tend to believe that Stephenson are pieces the Lakers are going to concentrate on; and as reported earlier, by Alex Kennedy, Deng is another player we may target...that's a positive. We need 2-way players in a very bad way. The only 'name' we're going after in the near future that is a realistic target is Love in 2015. After that, if Kevin Durant hasn't won a championship in OKC, I could see him heading out of town, and that's where things get interesting, IMO. Everybody will go after him; but if we have Love and a good core that's in need of a Durant to take the reigns and be that guy for us, he just might...we'll see, though. It's all predicated on Durant not winning a chip in OKC; if he does, he stays...
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Vasashi17 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:34 pm

There's the Okafor deal on the table, but would you guys revisit the Pau to Cleveland talks again?

And the general toxicity in the air around this team -- where rumblings of player discontent with Mike Brown are getting louder by the day -- makes you wonder if they have any hope of re-signing newly acquired (and shell-shocked) Luol Deng in free agency.

That's right: What was supposed to be a season exciting enough to make LeBron James think seriously about leaving Miami to come back to the Cavs has descended into such farce that sources close to the situation are already saying that there's little-to-no chance Deng will agree to stay once he hits free agency.

via ESPN

After a Pau for Deng deal, Cleveland would still be a non-tax payer and Pau's played for Brown, so there is a familiarity there. Also Pau would really help that toxic environment there. We also know that Deng was Grant's guy, so with Grant gone, the Cavs wouldn't want to lose Deng for nothing...they could try one last turnaround by bringing in the Spaniard.

I'm thinking that if you gave me a choice to have Bird Right's between Deng and Okafor, I would probably go with Deng. The problem with trading for Deng is that he would make us competitive again (hurting our lotto balls) while Okafor probably remains in street clothes. If you trade for Okafor, most likely that deal happens if LA gets a mid 1st round pick.

So what would you guys do?

BTW, trading for Deng also puts us that much closer to the tax apron. We would be about 2.3M away....so I would deal away Kaman and 3M (buyout) for a 2nd rounder.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:39 pm

^ Easy.

Make the trade for Okafor and a first. Then in the off-season sign Deng. If he's leaving anyway, then why bother worrying about Bird Rights? This way we have Bird Rights to Okafor who can be solid if he ever gets healthy and we have the cap space to go get Deng AND we get a late pick.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Vasashi17 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:44 pm

Nice solution, but we get a significant amount of flexibility when you account for cap holds and how Bird Rights allow you to go past the salary cap. If Deng is truly the target, you would want his Bird Rights, cause it helps with any other target we might have in free agency.

For example:
39. Why do free agents continue to count against team salary?

It closes a loophole. Teams otherwise would be able to sign other teams' free agents using their cap room, and then turn their attention to their own free agents using the Bird exception. This rule restricts their ability to do that. It uses the player's current status (type of free agent, whether coming off a rookie contract, and previous salary) as a rough guideline to predict the amount the player is likely to receive in his next contract, and sets that amount aside in the form of a cap hold. But while it functions as a rough guideline, it's obviously not perfect -- for example, in 2005 Michael Redd's free agent amount was just $6 million, even though the Bucks intended to re-sign him for the maximum salary. By waiting to sign Redd last, the Bucks were able to take advantage of the difference by signing Bobby Simmons. Had they signed Redd first, they would not have had enough cap room to sign Simmons.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Vasashi17 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:05 pm

Is something going down.... :man1:

Cleveland Cavaliers forward Luol Deng was a late scratch from Friday night's game against the Washington Wizards because of flu-like symptoms.

Deng, who was acquired by Cleveland from Chicago on Jan. 7, is the team's second-leading scorer with a 15.3 points per game average in 14 games since the trade.

Kyrie Irving, the Cavaliers' leading scorer, missed Friday's shootaround because of illness, but he is in the starting lineup.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Doc Brown on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:09 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if Deng ends up in PHX.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby lukewaltonsdad on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:14 pm

^I think they are going to have a fire sale before the trade deadline. Everybody is available besides Irving. They'll attempt to blow it up. I do like Deng. If I couldn't get one of the better picks from Phoenix, I would explore a Pau for Deng deal; heck, they Cleveland might part with a draft pick and or Waiters for Pau; although, can we get the tax savings that was proposed in the earlier deal for Bynum?
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:25 pm

I understand the salary cap and the Bird Rights. I'm in favor of trading for Love for that exact reason. But that's because I'd rather have Love than Deng. If we're going to need Bird Rights to sign someone like Deng, he's going to be too expensive. If the Lakers don't land a star like LeBron or Carmelo, I don't see them spending more than 10-12 million on a free agent because they're going to preserve cap space for Love in 2015. If it's between Deng and Stephenson for that amount, I'd probably rather go Stephenson.
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