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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Vasashi17 on Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:22 am

For those of you wanting Stephenson...good news:

per Sporting News
One league executive said the problems that have arisen—the public ones, remember, not the behind-the-scenes ones—with Stephenson will cut deep into his value on the free-agent market, and that a deal worth $7 million-$8 million per year is more likely to be Stephenson’s range now. “You hear things, for sure,” one general manager told Sporting News this week. “Stephenson is a guy who has talent, but if you have a young team and you’re building up a culture, you have to consider that before you pursue a guy who might affect your locker room negatively. You have to do your due diligence. But that sort of thing is going to affect the market for him, for sure. If a guy has issues, you better know about them and you think twice about going after him.”


We know how the Lakers like to overpay....combine that with their interpretation of due diligence and Stephenson is en-route.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Barnstable on Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:07 pm

^Good if we get a new coach that doesn't take BS, bad if we keep Pringles. I wouldn't worry about Stephenson too much though.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:37 pm

Doc Brown wrote:My pipe would be to sign Stephenson, Monroe and build there or use them as trading pieces for a superstar player.


I've heard this somewhere before….. :man1: Great minds and all that….

The reason I believe we've made significant mistakes with not trading Pau and walking away from the Fisher to Minn deal is that we have not amassed any assets that we can use to trade. Everyone focuses on what those individual trades (rumored) would have done to the immediate needs of the team but the long term aspects were never thought of.

We walked away from the Minn deal over 3 Million if memory serves and several Pau deals because we would have to take a contract back. While not instant successes for the Lakers we would now have assets to trade for a star who wants to move but it unwilling to walk away from the extra year and up to 30M….. That's a huge deal for a 28-30 year old "star" as they are entering their fragile years and that extra year of security is massive.

What we have now is cap room and no assets. We still seem to be in "Star first" mode and while I'd love to get Monroe and another young piece for the reasons you stated I just don't think Mitch and Co is thinking that way. I don't think we'll see any contracts that we won't have the ability to terminate this time next year. We may give options but we're still in "fill year in here plan" mode IMHO.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Doc Brown on Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:32 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:My pipe would be to sign Stephenson, Monroe and build there or use them as trading pieces for a superstar player.


I've heard this somewhere before….. :man1: Great minds and all that….


I posted it somewhere February 20th, must have fallen on deaf ears. :man12:
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby lotus on Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:49 pm

I'd be leery about taking a chance on Stephenson at $8MM+/yr. I think he is playing for a contract this year, and then he will start dogging it like many players in the league have done on that 2nd contract. He's had character issues in college and, based on Sporting News, in the pros. Playing in L.A. for MDA won't change that. If he were coming here and Phil were running the team, then I'd take a chance. We need players who are committed and passionate about being on the Lakers. That's what was endearing about the favorite Lakers players is that they bled purple & gold.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Doc Brown on Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:56 pm

I'd say Stephenson is the most committed and passionate person on the Pacers right now outside of David West. I don't see him all of sudden changing the way he plays just because he gets paid.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:58 pm

I've been on the Stephenson bandwagon all season long. I love that kid. He's got a bad attitude, gets in trouble on the court sometimes, but he's got a winner in him. I can see it when he plays.

I'd certainly love it if the Lakers picked him up.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby lotus on Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:26 pm

Doc Brown wrote:I'd say Stephenson is the most committed and passionate person on the Pacers right now outside of David West. I don't see him all of sudden changing the way he plays just because he gets paid.

Well that's true, especially considering their issues lately with pouting star players. It's a tough call because he has talent that the Lakers need, and they are so in need that they probably have to take that chance. I was a big supporter of Metta, so I guess I shouldn't be mad if we got him somehow.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Doc Brown on Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:54 am

Pistons' plans for Greg Monroe

During the 2013-14 campaign, Greg Monroe was paid just a little more than $4 million. That proved to be a terrific bargain for the Detroit Pistons, since he averaged 15.2 PPG, 9.3 RPG, 1.1 SPG and 49.7 FG%. He will become a restricted free agent this offseason, which is going to put the Pistons in a bind, because he likely will command an offer of more than $10 million per season.

Time will tell whether they will match such an offer, let him walk or work out a sign-and-trade, but trading him prior to the draft won't happen.

"You can’t trade a player on an expiring contract, whether he’s an unrestricted or restricted free agent to be, once the trade deadline of the season passes," noted Keith Langlois of Pistons.com. "So they couldn’t trade Monroe, Charlie Villanueva or Rodney Stuckey – all on expiring contracts – and neither could they trade Jonas Jerebko. That’s because Jerebko has a player option on his contract so it, in effect, is an expiring contract for the purposes of trade parameters."

The Pistons could work out a sign-and-trade deal once free agency begins in July, so they could at least get something in return for Monroe. However, the most likely scenarios are that they either suck it up and match an offer or simply let Monroe walk away. If Monroe leaves, then they presumably would slide Josh Smith down to the four next to Andre Drummond, pair up Kentavious Caldwell-Pope with Brandon Jennings in the backcourt and seek an impact small forward via the draft, free agency or a trade to round out their starting lineup.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Kingsama on Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:39 am

trodgers wrote:Cheap(ish) players who can contribute we could look to add? We're going to need bodies in that lineup...

PG
Shaun Livingston
Jerryd Bayless
Jimmer Fredette
Aaron Brooks

WING
Danny Granger
Thabo Sefolosha
Mike Miller

BIG
Emeka Okafor
DeJuan Blair
Andray Blatche


If the Lakers could land Granger, Sefo, Emeka and one of those guards I would be exceedingly excited. I really can't see the Lakers flipping a switch and contending next year and have a feeling that whats gonna happen is adding talent through the draft, picking up 2nd chance talent, and struggling again next year. If the team can stablize between now and then we may actually have a shot at landing max FA next summer.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby halekulani on Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:23 am

i don't know what chalmers is going to ask for but he's one player i'd like to see the lakers pursue
he's not a great playmaker or midrange shooter, but he is a very efficient player on both ends of the court. not a superb athlete, but committed to defense. when he gets buckets, they're generally the easy or scrappy ones.

i'd also like to see ariza back but i think he will want a big contract and thus unlikely to sign with us.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby LakersN4 on Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:25 pm

I know we're linked to every player that's rumored to be available because it makes for great leverage.. But once again, it's happening.. We're rumored to be 1 of the potential destinations for Boozer if he is amnestied. But the Bulls owner is notoriously cheap & will try to trade him & take back no salary in return if possible instead of paying Booz to play for someone else.

This presents an interesting scenario.. If the Bulls get a commitment from Melo that he will sign there if they create the cap space, would you use our cap space to take on Boozer next season? Obviously the Bulls will need to sweeten the deal for anyone to take on Boozer, but we'll get to that. To take it a step further, shedding Boozer alone wouldn't give them enough cap space to offer Melo anywhere near his max & they are likely going to have to get rid of Taj Gibson as well.

Presents us with 4 options.

Take on Boozers contract with draft picks as the sweetener (likely very late 1st rounder as the Bulls would now be stacked with talent to go with 1 of the best coaches in the game)

Take on Boozer with the rights to Mirotic

Take on Boozer but only if they're willing to include Gibson

Pass completely on trading for Boozer.

If it was up to me, I go with option 3.. I take on Boozer & Gibson (possibly sending them Jordan Hill in a S&T so that they can have a cheaper quality big & not completely deplete their frontcourt). I know many will point to Gibson making too much & cutting into our cap flexibility, but keep in mind Kobe + Gibson + draft pick + Marshall & Sacre would still leave us with roughly 26.5M cap space to spend next offseason.

I know it's a slippery slope giving non-stars like Gibson big contracts under the new CBA, but I think Gibson is the perfect type of player to pay that type of money if you're going to. 1 of the best paint defenders in the league, would be a great compliment to Kobe + star free agent that is likely not going to be a great defender.

We would potentially be going into next season with Kobe, Boozer, Gibson, our draft pick, Marshall, Sacre + another batch of 1 year contracts.

The following season we would hopefully be rolling with the same unit with Love replacing Boozer, & our draft pick hopefully better than he was in his rookie season.

Do you agree that my option would be the way to go, if not, which option would you go with & why?
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Battle Tested20 on Thu May 01, 2014 12:48 am

You lost me completely when you mentioned the Lakers should or could take on Boozer. I do not want him at all in any scenario
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Doc Brown on Thu May 01, 2014 5:03 am

I always loved the Lakers playing Utah, with Boozer on the team, in the playoffs. Such an easy matchup.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby LakersN4 on Thu May 01, 2014 6:40 am

Battle Tested20 wrote:You lost me completely when you mentioned the Lakers should or could take on Boozer. I do not want him at all in any scenario

If it looks likely that Melo will either stay in NY or go to Chi, there's nothing worth spending on in free agency this year.. My point was to use our cap space to take on Boozer along with Gibson to stay competitive next season.. Then Boozer comes off the books, we added Gibson to our core, & we still have cap space to go after Love, LMA, Rondo, or any of the other 2015 FA's.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Pig Miller on Thu May 01, 2014 7:35 am

on boozer/gibson

1) we have nothing legitimate to give up
2) why take on even 1 year of boozer's deal, he's terrible
3) we can re-sign jordan hill who is just as good if not better than either of those players
4) we can just take our cap space this year and go after guys who can produce at the same level as boozer/gibson and make a long term play, or a short term and/or cheaper deals
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby wcsoldier81 on Thu May 01, 2014 8:30 am

Pig Miller wrote:on boozer/gibson

1) we have nothing legitimate to give up
2) why take on even 1 year of boozer's deal, he's terrible
3) we can re-sign jordan hill who is just as good if not better than either of those players
4) we can just take our cap space this year and go after guys who can produce at the same level as boozer/gibson and make a long term play, or a short term and/or cheaper deals


I like Jordan but Gibson is a significantly better player ... strong impact on the defensive end and not a bad offensive player at all despite being surrounded by offensive scrubs .
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby wcsoldier81 on Thu May 01, 2014 8:32 am

Doc Brown wrote:I always loved the Lakers playing Utah, with Boozer on the team, in the playoffs. Such an easy matchup.


Boozer and Okur were playing some serious MDA lockdown defense together ... their better way to protect the paint was to foul the opponent
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Battle Tested20 on Thu May 01, 2014 8:58 am

LakersN4 wrote:
Battle Tested20 wrote:You lost me completely when you mentioned the Lakers should or could take on Boozer. I do not want him at all in any scenario

If it looks likely that Melo will either stay in NY or go to Chi, there's nothing worth spending on in free agency this year.. My point was to use our cap space to take on Boozer along with Gibson to stay competitive next season.. Then Boozer comes off the books, we added Gibson to our core, & we still have cap space to go after Love, LMA, Rondo, or any of the other 2015 FA's.

Have you honestly gone on google and learned for the list of free agents for 2014? I thought you will be surprised just how much good talent is still out there outside of the superstars.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby LakersN4 on Thu May 01, 2014 1:13 pm

Battle Tested20 wrote:
LakersN4 wrote:
Battle Tested20 wrote:You lost me completely when you mentioned the Lakers should or could take on Boozer. I do not want him at all in any scenario

If it looks likely that Melo will either stay in NY or go to Chi, there's nothing worth spending on in free agency this year.. My point was to use our cap space to take on Boozer along with Gibson to stay competitive next season.. Then Boozer comes off the books, we added Gibson to our core, & we still have cap space to go after Love, LMA, Rondo, or any of the other 2015 FA's.

Have you honestly gone on google and learned for the list of free agents for 2014? I thought you will be surprised just how much good talent is still out there outside of the superstars.

Unless we can get Lebron or Melo, there's noone worth spending on.. Monroe isn't worth the 13.7M it will take to have the winning bid for him.. Bledsoe might be worth near the max but if we draft Exum, that'd be a waste, & he's also injury prone. If Stephenson is still going to get offers in the 12M range as projected earlier in the season, that's way too big of a risk to take on a 4th option. Lowry same thing with drafting Exum, might end up redundant.. Deng is 1 of the only guys out there in that 2nd tier that would be a good signing but if we end up drafting or trading for a wing, that changes everything.. & also if he's still wanting 12M a season that's too much.. Gortat could be a good signing if it's at or under 10M but he'll probably get more than that.. Not a great summer to have cap space.

Next summer you have Kevin Love, Lamarcus Aldridge, Rajon Rondo, Marc Gasol & Lebron is more likely to save his opt out for 2015 when Wade will be another year older. Good restricted guys like Kyrie, Leonard, Kanter, Tobias Harris, Vucevic, Klay Thompson, Rubio, Jimmy Butler, Faried, Kemba Walker.. & then a bunch of good 2nd tier unrestricted guys like Dragic (likely to opt out of a 7M player option & lock in a bigger longer deal), Millsap, Asik, Z-Bo, Varejau, Lin, Deandre Jordan, Wes Matthews.. I'd much rather have cap space next season than this unless we can get Melo.. That class is extremely deep.

We go into next offseason with a ton of options.. If we strike out on the top 5 players & get into the territory of overpaying RFA's I'd much rather it be guys like Kawhi Leonard, Klay Thompson than Bledsoe/Monroe.. If you miss out on Love/LMA/Marc then you try to land Asik or Jordan.

Assuming we get extremely lucky & draft exum:

Exum
Kobe
Leonard or Thompson
Gibson
Asik or Jordan

All of a sudden our horrible defensive team is 1 of the best in the league.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Battle Tested20 on Thu May 01, 2014 5:09 pm

^ I was talking more of the likes of Stephenson, Deng, Ariza, Gortat, Lowry, Hawes, Dirk, Stuckey, Granger, Zach Randoph (player option)

A lot of great role players that can often be the difference between contenders and non contenders
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby LakersN4 on Thu May 01, 2014 5:27 pm

Battle Tested20 wrote:^ I was talking more of the likes of Stephenson, Deng, Ariza, Gortat, Lowry, Hawes, Dirk, Stuckey, Granger, Zach Randoph (player option)

A lot of great role players that can often be the difference between contenders and non contenders

The problem is besides Ariza, Stuckey, & possibly Granger, they're all going to be seeking offers starting north of 10M.. If we're going to spend that on players that aren't stars, I'd rather wait until next summer when Leonard/Thompson & Asik/Jordan can be the guys we offer the same amount of money to.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Battle Tested20 on Thu May 01, 2014 5:30 pm

LakersN4 wrote:
Battle Tested20 wrote:^ I was talking more of the likes of Stephenson, Deng, Ariza, Gortat, Lowry, Hawes, Dirk, Stuckey, Granger, Zach Randoph (player option)

A lot of great role players that can often be the difference between contenders and non contenders

The problem is besides Ariza, Stuckey, & possibly Granger, they're all going to be seeking offers starting north of 10M.. If we're going to spend that on players that aren't stars, I'd rather wait until next summer when Leonard/Thompson & Asik/Jordan can be the guys we offer the same amount of money to.


Fair enough. It's all going to come down to really what the market value will be with some of these players as Mitch allooted to in his Exit interview press conference with the media.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby MMJ on Thu May 01, 2014 5:43 pm

Here's a question. If Indiana gets bounced in the first round and Hibbert doesn't return there would you want him here as a "defensive stopper" at a less price? Because being a defender would be his only job here. Would you take him in the 8-10m range?


I wouldn't "mind" Hibbert but I wouldn't overpay him and his job would only be that of a defensive stopper and nothing more or less.

But in terms of who to sign... unless we landed LeBron we won't be a 'title contender' in that 2 year span unless we do multiple things and hit several homeruns.

It will start with our draft pick and whom we pick as our coach.

In terms of roster improvement we can bring back the bulk of guys we had this year for the most part as role players

Meeks
Young
Ryan Kelly
Kendall Marshall
Kent Bazemore

Are all guys that should return.

Farmar is replaceable, as is Wes Johnson though I wouldn't quit on him just yet, and I think Xavier Henry deserves a camp invite.


But if you bring back Young, Meeks, Bazemore, Kelly, Marshall

You have your deep bench that was needed.

The other guy we need to bring back is Jordan Hill.

So bring back those 6. Lucky for us Meeks and Hill's contracts don't count against the cap as we have bird's rights on them and it eats into a 17 million dollar cushion that would keep us beneath the luxury tax. So re-signing them isn't an issue money wise nor cap wise.


So my bring backs are

Kendall Marshall
Nick Young
Jodie Meeks
Kent Bazemore
Ryan Kelly
Jordan Hill

Those 6 guys are brought back and then we can start working on other people to strengthen the other spots that are open.

At that point it's about the draft. If we draft Exum or Smart we can enter free agency not having to go after a point guard like Lowry. If we got Embiid...we'd likely need to get another backup center too just in case because of Embiid's knee problems and back problems. If we got Wiggins or Jabari we wouldn't need to bring back Xavier or Wesley.

So that's basically the perspective we'll be approaching it from. Draft day is what will determine everything else but the necessity is that we bring back the role players that panned out this year otherwise it was all for naught.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby bigdog2013 on Thu May 01, 2014 5:57 pm

bring back
Farmer
Young
Meeks
Bazemore
Kelly
Hill
Kamen
Johnson if we can get him for the minimum
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