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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Savory Griddles on Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:55 am

trodgers wrote:Melo to Chicago makes some players expendable...and gives us a shot to "aid" them and take their pick.


This is my dream scenario. We take on Boozer for their 16th pick and use it on Elfrid Payton. Use that 7th pick on Randle or Vonleh. Come out of the draft with two solid pieces in positions of need. Even if neither ends up being a star, if we get two top 15 players at their respective positions, We fill in around that with free agent stars, or use them as trade pieces.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:57 am

Savory Griddles wrote:
trodgers wrote:Melo to Chicago makes some players expendable...and gives us a shot to "aid" them and take their pick.


This is my dream scenario. We take on Boozer for their 16th pick and use it on Elfrid Payton. Use that 7th pick on Randle or Vonleh. Come out of the draft with two solid pieces in positions of need. Even if neither ends up being a star, if we get two top 15 players at their respective positions, We fill in around that with free agent stars, or use them as trade pieces.

Randle and Boozer on the same team? Yikes. You can't start both of them. Randle probably deserves to start, but that's a lot of money on the bench. If Randle is on the bench then that's time wasting on a great rookie prospect.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Doc Brown on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:00 am

LakersN4 wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:Yea. Screw building a team. :jam2:

1 year contracts until we get a superstar.

Beats wasting 13-15 on Monroe or 10-12 on Stephenson.


Having those two trumps having a 30 year old Melo on your team for the next 4-5 years at over 20 million.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Doc Brown on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:06 am

therealdeal wrote:I don't think they mean one or the other. I would guess that Mitch will look for the players he wants, pay them what he wants to, and if they won't take that money then he'll move on.

For instance, if we want Monroe and we offer him something less than the max (but more than Detroit wants to sign him for) and he wants more, then Mitch won't pay it (even if someone else will).

At least I think that's what's happening...


That really doesn't change anything I said. Putting out below market offers for players that could get paid more elsewhere isn't going to attract anyone to a team in rebuild.

If he doesn't pay what others are, we are going to be rolling with another crew of 1 year rentals.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Savory Griddles on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:07 am

therealdeal wrote:
Savory Griddles wrote:
trodgers wrote:Melo to Chicago makes some players expendable...and gives us a shot to "aid" them and take their pick.


This is my dream scenario. We take on Boozer for their 16th pick and use it on Elfrid Payton. Use that 7th pick on Randle or Vonleh. Come out of the draft with two solid pieces in positions of need. Even if neither ends up being a star, if we get two top 15 players at their respective positions, We fill in around that with free agent stars, or use them as trade pieces.

Randle and Boozer on the same team? Yikes. You can't start both of them. Randle probably deserves to start, but that's a lot of money on the bench. If Randle is on the bench then that's time wasting on a great rookie prospect.
I'm not looking at it as "money on the bench." We aren't doing much next year anyway. 8th seed is a lofty goal at this point. But if taking on Boozer for a year gives us another young pup who could be special (Elfrid Payton), we have to jump at the chance. Cheap assets are something this team lacks. Whether Payton/Randle ends up being our 1/4 combo for the next ten years, or we move one of them for another good player, we can't rely on cap space as our only method of talent acquisition.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:14 am

Doc Brown wrote:
therealdeal wrote:I don't think they mean one or the other. I would guess that Mitch will look for the players he wants, pay them what he wants to, and if they won't take that money then he'll move on.

For instance, if we want Monroe and we offer him something less than the max (but more than Detroit wants to sign him for) and he wants more, then Mitch won't pay it (even if someone else will).

At least I think that's what's happening...


That really doesn't change anything I said. Putting out below market offers for players that could get paid more elsewhere isn't going to attract anyone to a team in rebuild.

If he doesn't pay what others are, we are going to be rolling with another crew of 1 year rentals.

the Mavericks were able to get Monta Ellis on a reasonable deal. That's the kind of player/contract that I think Mitch will look to get. If he can't, then I'm guessing he does what we all don't want him to do and that's wait and save the money.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Savory Griddles on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:18 am

therealdeal wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:
therealdeal wrote:I don't think they mean one or the other. I would guess that Mitch will look for the players he wants, pay them what he wants to, and if they won't take that money then he'll move on.

For instance, if we want Monroe and we offer him something less than the max (but more than Detroit wants to sign him for) and he wants more, then Mitch won't pay it (even if someone else will).

At least I think that's what's happening...


That really doesn't change anything I said. Putting out below market offers for players that could get paid more elsewhere isn't going to attract anyone to a team in rebuild.

If he doesn't pay what others are, we are going to be rolling with another crew of 1 year rentals.

the Mavericks were able to get Monta Ellis on a reasonable deal. That's the kind of player/contract that I think Mitch will look to get. If he can't, then I'm guessing he does what we all don't want him to do and that's wait and save the money.


I don't want him to sit on it, but I do want him to try and get another draft pick by taking on a bad one-year contract. :man12: Believe me, if we could just buy one for 3 million cash and then sign Stepheson for like 8-9 million, I'd be interested. But picks in this draft are going to cost you.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:27 am

Honestly, I don't even want this team to make the playoffs this year. It would be better to acquire several young players who we want to develop and let them play the season out and just evaluate them. And get another lottery pick next year and continue to add young talent. Do this for a couple of years. Making the 8th seed with Kobe and Melo is absolutely pointless.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby trodgers on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:31 am

Boozer to this team cripples us unless we move Nash in the same deal or get him out some other way. Don't really want Gibson either. But those are clearly their two most obvious resources for ditching some salary.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Savory Griddles on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:36 am

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Honestly, I don't even want this team to make the playoffs this year. It would be better to acquire several young players who we want to develop and let them play the season out and just evaluate them. And get another lottery pick next year and continue to add young talent. Do this for a couple of years. Making the 8th seed with Kobe and Melo is absolutely pointless.


Next years pick is only top 5 protected meaning we really have to suck to keep it. If we finish bottom five, it probably means Kobe got reinjured and our 7th pick was a bust.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:38 am

Savory Griddles wrote:I don't want him to sit on it, but I do want him to try and get another draft pick by taking on a bad one-year contract. :man12: Believe me, if we could just buy one for 3 million cash and then sign Stepheson for like 8-9 million, I'd be interested. But picks in this draft are going to cost you.

I'm with you. I think some picks could be for sale, but I agree it's more likely we'd have to take back a bad contract. I'm also with the plan to go get a guy like Stephenson who is a risky player, but on a good contract could really impact our team.

If we came out of this summer with something like Randle/Stephenson/Another Rookie and nothing else but 1 year deals, then I'm with it. Build slowly, that's fine, but you have to build.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Savory Griddles on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:39 am

trodgers wrote:Boozer to this team cripples us unless we move Nash in the same deal or get him out some other way. Don't really want Gibson either. But those are clearly their two most obvious resources for ditching some salary.


How does it cripple us? Boozer expires next season. It only cripples us if we are going after Monroe, Sttephenson or Bledsoe.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby trodgers on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:44 am

Savory Griddles wrote:
trodgers wrote:Boozer to this team cripples us unless we move Nash in the same deal or get him out some other way. Don't really want Gibson either. But those are clearly their two most obvious resources for ditching some salary.


How does it cripple us? Boozer expires next season. It only cripples us if we are going after Monroe, Sttephenson or Bledsoe.

Because we should be going after one of them - namely Stephenson.
The team we put together with Stephenson and our pick and cap space looks much more appealing than a team sending off Boozer and with no Stephenson. It's all about packaging.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Doc Brown on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:47 am

therealdeal wrote:the Mavericks were able to get Monta Ellis on a reasonable deal. That's the kind of player/contract that I think Mitch will look to get. If he can't, then I'm guessing he does what we all don't want him to do and that's wait and save the money.


Reasonable deal = Market value in this case. He opted out of his deal with the Bucks because he thought he was going to get over 12 million a year. No one was touching him over 10 million.

If Stephenson is going for 8 million and we don't jump in on that. I'd be pretty disappointed.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:48 am

Savory Griddles wrote:
Lets Go Lakers wrote:Honestly, I don't even want this team to make the playoffs this year. It would be better to acquire several young players who we want to develop and let them play the season out and just evaluate them. And get another lottery pick next year and continue to add young talent. Do this for a couple of years. Making the 8th seed with Kobe and Melo is absolutely pointless.


Next years pick is only top 5 protected meaning we really have to suck to keep it. If we finish bottom five, it probably means Kobe got reinjured and our 7th pick was a bust.


My point is, we shouldn't try to win now and make the 8th seed only to be eliminated in round 1. That's really pointless. Our only focus should be to acquire young talent to gear up for a run in a few years. Playing the young players we have and evaluating them has two benefits. We get to evaluate our talent and we probably have a bad record. We really set ourselves back by mortgaging the future for years. Now it's a slow process to build back up. It's the time to make the right decisions.

Not trading Pau was a huge mistake. It's the little things that add up.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:10 am

Doc Brown wrote:
therealdeal wrote:the Mavericks were able to get Monta Ellis on a reasonable deal. That's the kind of player/contract that I think Mitch will look to get. If he can't, then I'm guessing he does what we all don't want him to do and that's wait and save the money.


Reasonable deal = Market value in this case. He opted out of his deal with the Bucks because he thought he was going to get over 12 million a year. No one was touching him over 10 million.

If Stephenson is going for 8 million and we don't jump in on that. I'd be pretty disappointed.

Same. I think we're pretty much on the same page. If Monroe or Bledsoe go for less than the max, I'll be disappointed as well. Not that we need all of those guys, but we should get one of them if none of them go over value.

Stephenson for 8. Monroe for 10-12. Bledsoe for 10-12. One of those should be ours. If they all go over that, then I'm probably okay with saving the money instead of paying for what is left. (Maybe Deng for 7-8 or so, but I'm iffy on that).
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby jlkr on Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:20 am

I'm firmly in the don't overpay camp. Doing so is really punishment under the current CBA and Mitch is to be commended for not wanting to go there.

As far as spending on Stephenson, Monroe or Bledsoe, I'd only be looking at Monroe and I wouldn't be looking to pay him max. Bledsoe is nice, but not worth $12m; his ceiling is 3rd or 4th best player on a title team, don't want to be paying a guy like that $10m or more unless and until the Lakers have the 2nd certifiable superstar next to Kobe. And Bledsoe is *not* that guy. By the same token, I'm not sold on Stephenson either. $8m would be the very most I'd pay him, he wants more, he can get it somewhere else. The point is don't be eating the cap with perimeter based players before the team has a paint presence.

Which is where Monroe comes in. Get Randle at 7, put Monroe next to him, that's a viable front court pairing and would definitely be worth looking at.

My take is good bigs are far more essential to championship title hopes than good smalls. And so sorry, that's all Bledsoe and Stephenson are, good smalls, not great ones. Got to get the big superstar to put next to Kobe first, then fill in around the two of them and the #7 pick. I'm good with rentals until then.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby LooN3y on Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:08 am

how is monroe on defense?


i haven't got to see much of him, hell outside of laker games and most of the national games, i don't get to see much or get to research like i used to
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby LakersN4 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:22 am

LooN3y wrote:how is monroe on defense?


i haven't got to see much of him, hell outside of laker games and most of the national games, i don't get to see much or get to research like i used to

No explosion at all.. Really better suited at C than PF, so it makes it tough to put an anchor next to him. Need very good team defense to hide him.. Decent footwork & position D.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:35 am

LakersN4 wrote:
LooN3y wrote:how is monroe on defense?


i haven't got to see much of him, hell outside of laker games and most of the national games, i don't get to see much or get to research like i used to

No explosion at all.. Really better suited at C than PF, so it makes it tough to put an anchor next to him. Need very good team defense to hide him.. Decent footwork & position D.

Terrible rim defender. He doesn't have the speed to cover ground and get to the rim effectively in the half court. Big body though and a decent post defender. Underrated thief though, he's got great hands. He's more of a PF defender stuck in a C body.

He makes up for it though offensively. Very good feet, great touch with is left hand. Nice first step gets him to the rim easily. Plays below the rim, but draws a lot of contact and plays through it (doesn't miss many games). Underrated passer much like Gasol was when he first got here. A little more athletic than people think he is, but he needs time and space to get up off the floor which is sometimes hard to come by. He runs the floor really well and ends up with fast break buckets.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:51 am

New York Knicks star Carmelo Anthony is leaning toward leaving in pursuit of immediate championship contention, and awaits the Chicago Bulls and Houston Rockets to clear the necessary salary-cap space to sign him in free agency, league sources told Yahoo Sports. Yahoo! Sports - See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.P0KX7Uy5.dpuf


As re-signing with the Knicks continues to fade as his priority, Chicago and Houston have emerged as the clear frontrunners to acquire Anthony, league sources told Yahoo Sports. Yahoo! - See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.P0KX7Uy5.dpuf


Chicago and Houston front-office executives are working diligently on contingencies to clear the space to sign Anthony outright – or engage sign-and-trade scenarios with New York, sources said. "His heart is in New York," one source familiar with Anthony's thinking told Yahoo Sports, "but he wants a chance to win now." Yahoo! Sports - See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.P0KX7Uy5.dpuf


Anthony's meeting with Knicks officials on Friday night had little impact on his state of mind, league sources said, because there remain too many uncertainties about how quickly president Phil Jackson can reshape the team into a championship contender. Yahoo! Sports - See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.P0KX7Uy5.dpuf


Jackson has turned off Anthony with his public proclamations of wanting the seven-time All-Star forward to take less money to stay with New York, league sources said. Yahoo! Sports - See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.P0KX7Uy5.dpuf
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:57 am

I thought when Phil asked him to do that it basically meant the end. Carmelo has been all about his money and asking him to take for a rebuild? No thanks. It made me wonder if Phil either a) wanted Carmelo out in the first place or b) overplayed his influence by asking Carmelo to sacrifice like that.

In the meantime: let's get on that Asik/#25. Let's do it. I'm ready!
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby LakersN4 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:31 pm

therealdeal wrote:I thought when Phil asked him to do that it basically meant the end. Carmelo has been all about his money and asking him to take for a rebuild? No thanks. It made me wonder if Phil either a) wanted Carmelo out in the first place or b) overplayed his influence by asking Carmelo to sacrifice like that.

In the meantime: let's get on that Asik/#25. Let's do it. I'm ready!

I'm sure plenty of teams would take on Asik without getting a pick.. they'll need the pick to unload Lin.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby therealdeal on Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:42 pm

I'd gladly be one of those teams to hell with the pick.
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Re: Roster Improvements: addition by subtractions

Postby Lakerjones on Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:52 pm

therealdeal wrote:I thought when Phil asked him to do that it basically meant the end. Carmelo has been all about his money and asking him to take for a rebuild? No thanks. It made me wonder if Phil either a) wanted Carmelo out in the first place or b) overplayed his influence by asking Carmelo to sacrifice like that.

In the meantime: let's get on that Asik/#25. Let's do it. I'm ready!


Phil has NEVER been a fan of Melo and I think he wants rid of him badly. Who he wants is Lebron. I think the Durant talk is smokescreen. I think he wants Lebron paired with Love. That could be dangerous in the triangle honestly. Very dangerous.
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