Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:50 am

I believe this will stop us now from criticizing MB for pc sake :man10: Smarta**es are infecting the other threads with this lol...this issue is a juggler knot fa sho
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby kray28 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:15 am

Every time I start feeling really good about the Lakers, someone reminds me that Mike Brown is still the coach.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby SK8 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:27 am

Somewhere about 7 and 8. You are overreacting on Mike Brown, and writing like he is the worst coach in the league. Yes, he did have some mind blowing moves last season, but i don't have problem with that. He tried some things and it didn't work, so what? He will do much much better, you'll see.
He manage to get that trash Cleveland team only with LeBron so far in playoff, with team that he got now, he will be OK.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Doc Brown on Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:36 am

KB24stk wrote:He manage to get that trash Cleveland team only with LeBron so far in playoff, with team that he got now, he will be OK.


Why do people keep saying this? It's so far from being true......

He didn't only have Lebron, the Cavs just so happened to be in the. ".500 and your the 5th seed Eastern Conference", weak conference, it wasn't like he was the saving grace that pushed the Cavs farther then they could have gotten.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby kray28 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:40 am

I figure we'll be fine in the regular season...that's never what really worries me with a coach like Brown (except for the fact that he literally ran Kobe and Pau into the ground). Better depth now should alleviate that issue.

The real thing that troubles me is what happens in the playoffs when the opposing coach is going to outcoach Brown 9 times out of 10. Good example would be Brown's joke level coaching performance in our 7 game series with the Nuggets. Karl coached circles around Brown in that series....taking a far inferior team and using it to attack the core weaknesses of the Lakers. In a normal series (if say Phil was coaching), that buys you 1, maybe 2 wins, then the counter adjustments are made and the Lakers seal the deal.

That did not happen at all in the Denver series. Basically Pau showed up, Kobe did his thing, and the players won Game 7.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby hypotenuse on Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:08 am

kray28 wrote:Every time I start feeling really good about the Lakers, someone reminds me that Mike Brown is still the coach.

Ha that's how I feel about it as well. My only hope is that Brown (and the Lakers FO) at least is good about their assistant coaching hires.. for example Person I still on as an assistant coach, even though he was an assistant coach as part of the old Jackson-lead regime.

Judging from the vast majority of these answers it doesn't seem like any of the hardcore Laker fans have any faith whatsoever in Brown. A lot of my disbelief comes from the fact that Brown doesn't seem to have any sort of offensive system in place. I mean there are sets and schemes the Lakers run but a lot of it seems to be basic cutting/spacing of the floor for 3-point shooters, something that is easily done in pickup games. While Brown has undoubtedly given the Lakers a better defensive system that won't mean that much until the Lakers can run the sets they want down the stretch.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby KB24 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:16 am

Kray

I actually think Brown out-coached Brooks in the Thunder series.

The Thunder were running all over the Lakers in game 1. After that Brown made better adjustments and kept making it impossible for the Thunder to recover except for the elimination game in which the Lakers are traditionally awful on the road. We would have easily won game 2 with Kobe not choking it away. Game 3 was a solid win, game 4 was a very very unfortunate loss...thanks to Gasol's lack of balls.

Also saying Brown ran Kobe to the ground is kind of not true. Kobe did play many minutes but

1. It was a short season
2. He had 2 weeks of rest right before the playoffs

I don't think Kobe's performance in the post season was by the least affected by fatigue. And please stop giving Gasol an excuse and a pass every year when he sucks.

Gasol 2009: 37:00 mpg
Gasol 2010: 37:00 mpg
Gasol 2011: 37:00 mpg
Gasol 2012: 37:23 mpg

those 23 seconds barely count as a significant increase when you count a shorted season...again I'm aware that it was a compressed season and that these players aren't getting younger but the Laker players had basically off from early mai until late december so fatigue is a terrible excuse. Gasol had already pussed out the year before againt scrubs. First people called complacency an issue, the popular excuse after that back then was that 3 straight finals took a toll on his body.

At the end of the day it is what it is. You only win if you want it more than your opponent and if you muscle through it. Don't you think LeBron was fatigued playing 40+ minutes at PF in the playoffs? nobody cares why you lost when you lose. The Lakers finished last season 41-25 which is rather awful and they were especially terrible on the road. Its about getting better, especially with the reinforcements.

Mike Brown doesn't have any excuses anymore. He has to deliver now and while he is far away from being the smartest coach in the league he puts emphasis on defense and doesn't shy away from established players. He has benched everyone when they didn't play with effort and this team always needs a kick in their arse or else they get complacent.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby kray28 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:38 am

Only adjustment that Brown made was to slow down the game plan even more, and basically play the starters huge minutes.

It was a good adjustment given our personnel and lack of viable depth...but the downside was that our starters were unable to execute well down the stretch. My hope is that increased depth...used wisely (and there's the rub) helps keep Kobe a bit more fresh to get things done in the fourth. With Dwight's freethrow shooting, we'll need Kobe/Nash to close things down the stretch for us.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby jamabile on Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:41 am

It's at a 6 right now; however, we upgraded our coaching staff. We have good offensive and defensive minds. We don't have to be relegated to players drawing up plays like they did last year in the huddle unless Nash or Kobe suggest something.

The one thing I do like about Brown is he will allow other coaches/players to make suggestions and adjustment applying them during the course of a game. If he does the same this year with his coaching staff and players, he'll be fine...
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Finwë on Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:50 am

KB24 wrote:Kray

I actually think Brown out-coached Brooks in the Thunder series.

The Thunder were running all over the Lakers in game 1. After that Brown made better adjustments and kept making it impossible for the Thunder to recover except for the elimination game in which the Lakers are traditionally awful on the road. We would have easily won game 2 with Kobe not choking it away. Game 3 was a solid win, game 4 was a very very unfortunate loss...thanks to Gasol's lack of balls.

He did outcoach him games 2,3 & 4. But that's not saying much, IMO Brooks is one of the most overrated coaches in the L, which he proved in the Finals.

KB24 wrote:Also saying Brown ran Kobe to the ground is kind of not true. Kobe did play many minutes but

1. It was a short season
2. He had 2 weeks of rest right before the playoffs

Yeah because he was INJURED....

Agreed with the rest of your post, especially this:
KB24 wrote:Mike Brown doesn't have any excuses anymore. He has to deliver now and while he is far away from being the smartest coach in the league he puts emphasis on defense and doesn't shy away from established players. He has benched everyone when they didn't play with effort and this team always needs a kick in their arse or else they get complacent.

I liked the comment about how "he doesn't shy away from established players". That was one of the very few things I liked about Brown. He showed some balls from time to time. That breakout game Jordan Hill had vs OKC doesn't happen if Brown shies away from benching Bynum (who was really sucking that game) in the 4th till the end of the game.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Nikez on Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:33 am

My confidence in lakers management is sky high. Therefore, I believe when they decided to bring him here they saw something in him that none of us have.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby John3:16 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:51 am

If Brown out coached Brooks, how come we never made an adjustment to Perkins fronting Bynum? How come we had Blake guarding Harden?

I didn't see anything that suggested he out coached anyone, but hey, I'm just a racist.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Doc Brown on Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:58 am

John3:16 wrote:If Brown out coached Brooks, how come we never made an adjustment to Perkins fronting Bynum? How come we had Blake guarding Harden?

I didn't see anything that suggested he out coached anyone, but hey, I'm just a racist.


Or the fact that in multiple games, our offense was Kobe ISO for the last 5 minutes of the game, which ultimately resulted in us getting the L because we couldn't score. This is after Kobe was playing essentially the whole game at 33 and had nothing left in the tank.

If you're the head coach, you don't let that happen. A timeout, a play call off the bench other then ISO, something.

But Hey....I'm White..........W - H - I - T.....






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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby pound4pound1 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:03 pm

racism


good lord
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby TIME on Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:11 pm

I don't know that Brown out coached Brooks. To me it was more like a contest to see who could coach worse. I'll just pick one example of Brown's coaching that sealed the no confidence deal for me. Steve Blake playing back up SG.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby jamabile on Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:22 pm

^Steve Blake playing any position hurt our team. He's horrible, but I agree with you. There's no excuse for that happening this year at all with the acquisition of Meeks. We have a roster full of talent that if Brown finds any way to mess up, he's gone.

I remember of at least two-three times throughout the year that Brown had players draw up plays on offense. It was absurd. He has no clue what he's doing offensively. That's why he needs to hand that part of his job off and handle the defense.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby KB24 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:29 pm

John3:16 wrote:If Brown out coached Brooks, how come we never made an adjustment to Perkins fronting Bynum? How come we had Blake guarding Harden?

I didn't see anything that suggested he out coached anyone, but hey, I'm just a racist.


we didn't make other adjustments because we couldn't or didn't have the depth to change things up.

Our PGs were a complete no show, timid and scared, overwhelmed with Westbrick. Sessions was invisible and Blake was awful after a solid series vs. the Nuggets.

With Bynum and Pau you do not have the flexibility to experiment and move him further out to avoid him getting fronted. So it took a PG to get him the ball but good luck with that. So with him camping in the paint, him getting fronted was inevitable without a PG that makes an entry pass.

Blake vs. Harden...in 5 games Harden shot 36% from the floor and 25% from 3 while getting the second fewest FTs in the playoff rounds, hardly an argument against Brown.

Mike had already played a 3 guard rotation for a while. Who would you have wanted? Glock? no thanks. Barnes was flat out garbage too. In 47 minutes he was 3-10 from the field with 11 fouls. When you play with Westbrook and Harden in the backend, you are going to have to pick your poison.

Really we didn't have too many alternatives. Ebanks was the only option but Ebanks is a show stopper on offense and we didn't lose to OKC on defense, we lost on offense. When we led by 7 with 2 minutes left and we lost, scoring just 12 points in the 4th...or another break down in game 4 with 9 point lead with 6 minutes left and ended up with like 17 in the 4th. We simply couldn't score when it mattered. On defense, we only lost game 1 and game 5 (which is always a challenge on the road in elimination game and in the Kobe era we have always been barbe-qued in those games even though for a change this time he had 42).

Brown certainly wasn't out-coached. Did you really expect the Lakers to do better against the Thunder? We lost 2 very close games. Nobody expected us to win. Sure 4-1 isn't close but neither was the 0-4 flame out the year before with Jackson at the helm.

Look at our 4th quarters and the break downs on offense...
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Center Court on Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:23 pm

Brown: 5/10
Bench: 8/10
Nash/Kobe: 12/10
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Snakell Beast on Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:42 pm

Racism? I wouldn't go that far, but I do think people are over exaggerating how much he "sucks".


My point exactly, except that I think that a lot of the people that hate and mock Mike Brown with so much contempt and condescension are motivated at least in part by a strong dislike of his characteristics, behavioral characteristics that are (I believe unfairly and by racists) deemed to be most prevalent in African Americans.

Racism... ugh.


You Make Simple Word.

Pulling the racism card might be the weakest argument ever. I think people don't even understand what the term means anymore.


Describing your personal assessment of the inherent strength or weakness of a given argument is not an effective or logical argument against the substance of the claim. Racism isn't just hating someone because of their skin color, it also INCLUDES making assumptions (about a person's skills or abilities) based on statistically significant influence from subconscious perceptions of characteristics inherent in racial stereotypes perpetrated in popular culture, and making value judgments based on those assumptions.

Many people here wanted Brian Shaw. So much for the "racism" card.


Right, because racist people NEVER favor certain "types" of behavior or personality traits in otherwise negatively perceived ethnic groups and then prop those favored groups up to tear the rest down. To those people, Shaw is "one of the good ones". I don't know how many of the people that "hate" Mike Brown fall into that category, but there definitely are plenty.

I wanted Nate McMillan and like Eddie Jordan, so much for your [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] racism theory...


aah, the old "Some of my best friends are black" mantra. Often the Go-TO calling card of the closet racist.

racism


good lord


emphatic but substantively void arguments


Holy Cannoli

Phil led us to 5 titles. I must've slept thru Browns 6 titles.


Any literate person knows I was talking about Phil's LAST YEAR, in which he won 0 rings. With a less talented team the next season, Mike Brown did better against better competition. Try to stay within the context of the argument that you refute, otherwise it's an obsolete argument, whether you realize it or not.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby John3:16 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:50 pm

Snakell Beast wrote:
Phil led us to 5 titles. I must've slept thru Browns 6 titles.


Any literate person knows I was talking about Phil's LAST YEAR, in which he won 0 rings. With a less talented team the next season, Mike Brown did better against better competition. Try to stay within the context of the argument that you refute, otherwise it's an obsolete argument, whether you realize it or not.


Okay. Brown took us further then Phil did in his last year. Game 4 to the team that won the title vs a Game 5 to the runner-ups. Both 2nd round. you're absolutely right. Brown must be better then Phil.

Seriously, drop the racist accusations that have no merit. You're better then that.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Finwë on Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:54 pm

TIME wrote:I don't know that Brown out coached Brooks. To me it was more like a contest to see who could coach worse. I'll just pick one example of Brown's coaching that sealed the no confidence deal for me. Steve Blake playing back up SG.

What's worse is that he did so in crunch time in that Denver series. Game 5 I think it was, we were almost completely out of the game, then Kobe went NUTS and brought us back, but it wasn't enough. Why? Because Steve Blake was guarding Andre Miller! Miller just posted Blake up and hit a couple of shots. Game. DUMB.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Kit on Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:57 pm

kray28 wrote:Every time I start feeling really good about the Lakers, someone reminds me that Mike Brown is still the coach.


Nothing is perfect, my friend... nothing is perfect lol
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Snakell Beast on Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:03 pm

John3:16 wrote:Okay. Brown took us further then Phil did in his last year. Game 4 to the team that won the title vs a Game 5 to the runner-ups. Both 2nd round. you're absolutely right. Brown must be better then Phil.


Again, stick to what I actually said. If you read what I said, you'll notice that I said "comparable", which only means relevant to and/or equivalent enough so as to warrant comparison. It just means he is worthy of the conversation in the context of comparing the past two seasons. I did not imply, nor would I, that A. Mike Brown did a BETTER job than phil, or B. That Mike Brown is a better coach. Neither of those are statements I made, have made, or WOULD EVER make. In fact, if you read my previous statement, you'll notice that I went out of my way to SEPERATE the 4 coaches I thought were just better than the rest...the rest includes Mike Brown.

John3:16 wrote:Seriously, drop the racist accusations that have no merit. You're better then that.


I think you meant that I am better THAN that. Secondly, I stand by the logic and merit of my arguments in response to criticism of, and in defense of, my claims of racism as a motivating factor for the extreme vitriol, hatred and utter disdain some have expressed about Mike Brown.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby TIME on Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:48 pm

Snakell Beast wrote:
Secondly, I stand by the logic and merit of my arguments in response to criticism of, and in defense of, my claims of racism as a motivating factor for the extreme vitriol, hatred and utter disdain some have expressed about Mike Brown.


I read your posts asserting racism as a motive for the dislike of Mike Brown as a coach. What you claimed does not seem logical to me. It seems like you are making some fairly significant assumptions when no one has really raised the issues to which you alluded. It's true that some posters here have made fun of his mouth and verbal patterns, but nothing I've seen here on that had anything to do with his race.

You've been here long enough to see the same posters draw attention mockingly to Steve Blake's appearance, Jordan Farmar's ears, Sasha's hair, and Luke Walton's general dorkiness as just a few easy examples. Was the disdain expressed toward those players a function of racism, and if not, why not?

It is possible to dislike a player or coach for reasons other than race. It does not strike me as logical at all to presume racism when there has been no overt or even subtle reference to it as a motivating factor.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Finwë on Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:00 pm

lakerswiz wrote:
Finwë wrote:
TIME wrote:I don't know that Brown out coached Brooks. To me it was more like a contest to see who could coach worse. I'll just pick one example of Brown's coaching that sealed the no confidence deal for me. Steve Blake playing back up SG.

What's worse is that he did so in crunch time in that Denver series. Game 5 I think it was, we were almost completely out of the game, then Kobe went NUTS and brought us back, but it wasn't enough. Why? Because Steve Blake was guarding Andre Miller! Miller just posted Blake up and hit a couple of shots. Game. DUMB.

And this year it's going to be Nash. Who's probably smaller and weaker than Steve Blake.

Mike Brown isn't going to magically coach Nash to be stronger and tougher. So what do you want him to do at that point? Take out Nash and put Steve Blake on him? Now we're back at square 1.

There are going to be mismatches. There isn't always an adjustment to be made. There are going to be missed shots.

All of them can't be blamed on Brown.

Umm put Kobe on Dre Miller?? Blake shouldn't have been on the floor. MWP could have easily guarded Kobe's man (Gallinari).
Karl went small knowing that if Brown did the same he had us, because Blake can't guard Miller, they were the more athletic and fast team and we'd lose our main advantage. Brown should have kept MWP on the floor instead of going with Sessions, Kobe AND Blake. Dumb decision is dumb.
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