Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Snakell Beast on Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:42 pm

Racism? I wouldn't go that far, but I do think people are over exaggerating how much he "sucks".


My point exactly, except that I think that a lot of the people that hate and mock Mike Brown with so much contempt and condescension are motivated at least in part by a strong dislike of his characteristics, behavioral characteristics that are (I believe unfairly and by racists) deemed to be most prevalent in African Americans.

Racism... ugh.


You Make Simple Word.

Pulling the racism card might be the weakest argument ever. I think people don't even understand what the term means anymore.


Describing your personal assessment of the inherent strength or weakness of a given argument is not an effective or logical argument against the substance of the claim. Racism isn't just hating someone because of their skin color, it also INCLUDES making assumptions (about a person's skills or abilities) based on statistically significant influence from subconscious perceptions of characteristics inherent in racial stereotypes perpetrated in popular culture, and making value judgments based on those assumptions.

Many people here wanted Brian Shaw. So much for the "racism" card.


Right, because racist people NEVER favor certain "types" of behavior or personality traits in otherwise negatively perceived ethnic groups and then prop those favored groups up to tear the rest down. To those people, Shaw is "one of the good ones". I don't know how many of the people that "hate" Mike Brown fall into that category, but there definitely are plenty.

I wanted Nate McMillan and like Eddie Jordan, so much for your [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] racism theory...


aah, the old "Some of my best friends are black" mantra. Often the Go-TO calling card of the closet racist.

racism


good lord


emphatic but substantively void arguments


Holy Cannoli

Phil led us to 5 titles. I must've slept thru Browns 6 titles.


Any literate person knows I was talking about Phil's LAST YEAR, in which he won 0 rings. With a less talented team the next season, Mike Brown did better against better competition. Try to stay within the context of the argument that you refute, otherwise it's an obsolete argument, whether you realize it or not.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby John3:16 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:50 pm

Snakell Beast wrote:
Phil led us to 5 titles. I must've slept thru Browns 6 titles.


Any literate person knows I was talking about Phil's LAST YEAR, in which he won 0 rings. With a less talented team the next season, Mike Brown did better against better competition. Try to stay within the context of the argument that you refute, otherwise it's an obsolete argument, whether you realize it or not.


Okay. Brown took us further then Phil did in his last year. Game 4 to the team that won the title vs a Game 5 to the runner-ups. Both 2nd round. you're absolutely right. Brown must be better then Phil.

Seriously, drop the racist accusations that have no merit. You're better then that.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Finwë on Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:54 pm

TIME wrote:I don't know that Brown out coached Brooks. To me it was more like a contest to see who could coach worse. I'll just pick one example of Brown's coaching that sealed the no confidence deal for me. Steve Blake playing back up SG.

What's worse is that he did so in crunch time in that Denver series. Game 5 I think it was, we were almost completely out of the game, then Kobe went NUTS and brought us back, but it wasn't enough. Why? Because Steve Blake was guarding Andre Miller! Miller just posted Blake up and hit a couple of shots. Game. DUMB.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Kit on Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:57 pm

kray28 wrote:Every time I start feeling really good about the Lakers, someone reminds me that Mike Brown is still the coach.


Nothing is perfect, my friend... nothing is perfect lol
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Snakell Beast on Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:03 pm

John3:16 wrote:Okay. Brown took us further then Phil did in his last year. Game 4 to the team that won the title vs a Game 5 to the runner-ups. Both 2nd round. you're absolutely right. Brown must be better then Phil.


Again, stick to what I actually said. If you read what I said, you'll notice that I said "comparable", which only means relevant to and/or equivalent enough so as to warrant comparison. It just means he is worthy of the conversation in the context of comparing the past two seasons. I did not imply, nor would I, that A. Mike Brown did a BETTER job than phil, or B. That Mike Brown is a better coach. Neither of those are statements I made, have made, or WOULD EVER make. In fact, if you read my previous statement, you'll notice that I went out of my way to SEPERATE the 4 coaches I thought were just better than the rest...the rest includes Mike Brown.

John3:16 wrote:Seriously, drop the racist accusations that have no merit. You're better then that.


I think you meant that I am better THAN that. Secondly, I stand by the logic and merit of my arguments in response to criticism of, and in defense of, my claims of racism as a motivating factor for the extreme vitriol, hatred and utter disdain some have expressed about Mike Brown.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby TIME on Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:48 pm

Snakell Beast wrote:
Secondly, I stand by the logic and merit of my arguments in response to criticism of, and in defense of, my claims of racism as a motivating factor for the extreme vitriol, hatred and utter disdain some have expressed about Mike Brown.


I read your posts asserting racism as a motive for the dislike of Mike Brown as a coach. What you claimed does not seem logical to me. It seems like you are making some fairly significant assumptions when no one has really raised the issues to which you alluded. It's true that some posters here have made fun of his mouth and verbal patterns, but nothing I've seen here on that had anything to do with his race.

You've been here long enough to see the same posters draw attention mockingly to Steve Blake's appearance, Jordan Farmar's ears, Sasha's hair, and Luke Walton's general dorkiness as just a few easy examples. Was the disdain expressed toward those players a function of racism, and if not, why not?

It is possible to dislike a player or coach for reasons other than race. It does not strike me as logical at all to presume racism when there has been no overt or even subtle reference to it as a motivating factor.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Finwë on Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:00 pm

lakerswiz wrote:
Finwë wrote:
TIME wrote:I don't know that Brown out coached Brooks. To me it was more like a contest to see who could coach worse. I'll just pick one example of Brown's coaching that sealed the no confidence deal for me. Steve Blake playing back up SG.

What's worse is that he did so in crunch time in that Denver series. Game 5 I think it was, we were almost completely out of the game, then Kobe went NUTS and brought us back, but it wasn't enough. Why? Because Steve Blake was guarding Andre Miller! Miller just posted Blake up and hit a couple of shots. Game. DUMB.

And this year it's going to be Nash. Who's probably smaller and weaker than Steve Blake.

Mike Brown isn't going to magically coach Nash to be stronger and tougher. So what do you want him to do at that point? Take out Nash and put Steve Blake on him? Now we're back at square 1.

There are going to be mismatches. There isn't always an adjustment to be made. There are going to be missed shots.

All of them can't be blamed on Brown.

Umm put Kobe on Dre Miller?? Blake shouldn't have been on the floor. MWP could have easily guarded Kobe's man (Gallinari).
Karl went small knowing that if Brown did the same he had us, because Blake can't guard Miller, they were the more athletic and fast team and we'd lose our main advantage. Brown should have kept MWP on the floor instead of going with Sessions, Kobe AND Blake. Dumb decision is dumb.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby John3:16 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:10 pm

Snakell Beast wrote:
John3:16 wrote:I stand by the logic and merit of my arguments in response to criticism of, and in defense of, my claims of racism as a motivating factor for the extreme vitriol, hatred and utter disdain some have expressed about Mike Brown.


If you truly believe that I feel sorry for you.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Doc Brown on Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:27 pm

Snakell Beast wrote:I think you meant that I am better THAN that. Secondly, I stand by the logic and merit of my arguments in response to criticism of, and in defense of, my claims of racism as a motivating factor for the extreme vitriol, hatred and utter disdain some have expressed about Mike Brown.


Since you've seen these racist remarks and are so sure that a majority of people are racist, how about you toss out some examples of people being racist towards/about Mike Brown? Show me some previous posts with this racist vitriol you speak of....

You seem like you've seen quite a large sample size a racist remarks on here on the subject, so it should be easy to find them and point them out.

Otherwise I have a hard time your argument serious......
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby CarolinaLakerFan on Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:47 pm

My confidence level in Potatohead is a 3.

My confidence level in Kobe, Dwight, Pau and Steve is a 10.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Finwë on Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:19 pm

lakerswiz wrote:
Finwë wrote:
lakerswiz wrote:
Finwë wrote:
TIME wrote:I don't know that Brown out coached Brooks. To me it was more like a contest to see who could coach worse. I'll just pick one example of Brown's coaching that sealed the no confidence deal for me. Steve Blake playing back up SG.

What's worse is that he did so in crunch time in that Denver series. Game 5 I think it was, we were almost completely out of the game, then Kobe went NUTS and brought us back, but it wasn't enough. Why? Because Steve Blake was guarding Andre Miller! Miller just posted Blake up and hit a couple of shots. Game. DUMB.

And this year it's going to be Nash. Who's probably smaller and weaker than Steve Blake.

Mike Brown isn't going to magically coach Nash to be stronger and tougher. So what do you want him to do at that point? Take out Nash and put Steve Blake on him? Now we're back at square 1.

There are going to be mismatches. There isn't always an adjustment to be made. There are going to be missed shots.

All of them can't be blamed on Brown.

Umm put Kobe on Dre Miller?? Blake shouldn't have been on the floor. MWP could have easily guarded Kobe's man (Gallinari).
Karl went small knowing that if Brown did the same he had us, because Blake can't guard Miller, they were the more athletic and fast team and we'd lose our main advantage. Brown should have kept MWP on the floor instead of going with Sessions, Kobe AND Blake. Dumb decision is dumb.


lol, Karl went small because that's all they can do. They didn't go small. They are small. Regardless of who was on the floor they were always going to be faster than us and more athletic than us.

Oh and if you go back and watch the game / read the play by play, Steve Blake hit 2 3's in a row and grabbed an offensive board in the last 5 seconds to give us a second look at the bucket to send it to overtime.

If that shot was made you wouldn't even remember Andre Miller making two baskets in the last 6 minutes.

And if my memory serves me correctly, both of those plays involved no help side at all, in any way. Almost no one in the league is going to be able to play defense on someone when they don't have the help sliding over. From what I remember one was a lay up with Blake by himself and the other was a fadeaway jumper from 4 feet out.

1) They did go small.
2) Blake's 2 straight 3s came with more than 7 minutes left.... We were down 11 after his second 3. He literally did NOTHING after that until that offensive rebound you mentioned. Brown's decision to keep him on the floor and having him guard Miller was EXTREMELY dumb. There's no defending that call.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Lakerjones on Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:39 pm

TIME wrote:
Snakell Beast wrote:
Secondly, I stand by the logic and merit of my arguments in response to criticism of, and in defense of, my claims of racism as a motivating factor for the extreme vitriol, hatred and utter disdain some have expressed about Mike Brown.


I read your posts asserting racism as a motive for the dislike of Mike Brown as a coach. What you claimed does not seem logical to me. It seems like you are making some fairly significant assumptions when no one has really raised the issues to which you alluded. It's true that some posters here have made fun of his mouth and verbal patterns, but nothing I've seen here on that had anything to do with his race.

You've been here long enough to see the same posters draw attention mockingly to Steve Blake's appearance, Jordan Farmar's ears, Sasha's hair, and Luke Walton's general dorkiness as just a few easy examples. Was the disdain expressed toward those players a function of racism, and if not, why not?

It is possible to dislike a player or coach for reasons other than race. It does not strike me as logical at all to presume racism when there has been no overt or even subtle reference to it as a motivating factor.


^^ Agreed. I haven't seen any support or evidence that race is a prevailing factor for why so many here, including myself dislike Brown as head coach.

I know for my part I can say with 100% conviction that Brown's ethnicity or race has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that I don't like his coaching. I just really don't like his coaching. I think many on this board feel similarly in that regard.

I feel that KB24 hit the nail on the head about fan bases blaming head coaches. It's a thing that's fairly universal especially when they aren't bringing championships. The Heat fan base were brutal towards Spo when he was floundering early on, and later as well when they lost to Dallas. In fact, I'd say it was generally worse than I've seen towards Brown.

The fact is, when things aren't coming together in Pro Sports the head coach is most often the fall guy. That's simply the way it is.

I'll say this - if you think I'm being hard on Brown you should have seen me talk about Del Harris, my all time most despised coach.

RE: Brown's hire - I was upset about it because I didn't think he was the right fit. After a season of watching him at work I'm still not convinced that he is the right guy. I didn't like his offense - it was horrendous. I didn't like his substitutions. I thought he had some good ideas on defense but not the right personnel to implement them. I didn't like the stubbornness that you brought up. I didn't like him getting severely out coached in the first round. I din't like the fact that he can't seem to adapt with good in game adjustments or sometimes out of game adjustments.

A couple things he really seems to lack as well are an understanding of his players and a sense for what will work out there as seen by his substitutions. Some of it you can chalk up to it being his first season, but then again, I just don't feel like he gets them for the most part. See the way Pau himself felt underutilized or misused in the offense as evidenced by his exit interview.

The first coach I liked for us to hire was Shaw. You can look back at my post history to see why, but in a nutshell here are the reasons:
1. Familiarity and good chemistry with our players. Shaw understudied with Phil and knew these guys incredibly well - their strengths and weaknesses and what made them tick. He had a great rapport with Kobe Bryant especially who endorsed him as a coach he wanted for the Lakers. Heck, he even played alongside Kobe as well as coaching him. This wasn't a buddy/buddy thing either. Shaw knew how to critique Kobe and the right buttons to push. Kobe trusted Shaw. That says a lot. I don't think Kobe trusts Mike Brown at all. He was basically coaching out there for him on the sideline, or should I say instead of him. And the Lakers were responding more to Kobe seemingly than Mike Brown. By a long shot as far as I could see.

2. Same offense system in a lockout shortened season. I hated the fact that we had to recreate the wheel when it was obvious that there wasn't time for such a thing. Shaw would have run the Triangle and really, there was no good reason at all not to given our personnel and the fact that there was a lockout. Trying to implement a new system with no training camp was a problem. On top of that Mike Brown's "system" looked the same as it did in Cleveland: ISO, ISO and more ISO. It was a disaster to watch that atrocity offensively last year. I dreaded watching a lot of those games as we were so terrible.

3. Gravitas. Brian Shaw has been through a lot in his life and he has handled the adversity with a lot of grace and a lot of heart. He's pretty inspirational as a person. That goes a long way when you are coaching and leading others. To me he has that thing - that quality as a quiet (although sometimes vociferous) leader who does it by example and carries some real weight. Remember that Brian Shaw was the guy who, when we were down by 15 near the end of the third against Portland in that deciding game 7, led us back by hitting three pointers just when we were on the ropes, right at the edge of defeat. By his inspiring play we came back, and went on to win our first of three consecutive championships that brought us back into true relevancy as a franchise in the 2000s. On the other side of things, I don't feel that spark from Mike Brown. He seems like a nerdy, bookish guy who no one takes too seriously. I don't know if he knows what it takes to get it done. And I don't think the players sense that from him.

Ok, so I was pretty sold on going with Shaw, first of all. But then when Adelman's name came up, I was even more sold on him. Here's the reasons and it doesn't have to do with race.

1. Great offensive coach and system that really fit our personnel. I felt that actually Adelman's system was an even better one for our guys, primarily Kobe and Gasol, than the Triangle was. I thought that it would utilize Pau's passing skills and high post play, plus pick and roll with Kobe, perfectly. I also thought it would open up more room for Bynum down low.

2. Also a great player's coach with good instincts for his personnel. Adelman has always had a knack for figuring out how best to use his players. He's just a great coach in that regard and his players would tell you that. Just ask Ron Artest who played some of his best ball under Adelman.

3. Experience. This was the biggest reason I felt we should go with Adelman over Shaw. He just has so much experience as a head coach and with Shaw he was unproven in that regard.

Now, even though I really dislike Brown as a head coach (I think he'd be a terrific defensive assistant coach like Thibodeau was in Beantown), I am thankful for one thing. At least we didn't hire Dumbleavy. That would have been the worst possible scenario. As hard as I might be on Brown, I take him any day, any time over Dunleavy.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby therealdeal on Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:41 pm

TIME wrote:
Snakell Beast wrote:
Secondly, I stand by the logic and merit of my arguments in response to criticism of, and in defense of, my claims of racism as a motivating factor for the extreme vitriol, hatred and utter disdain some have expressed about Mike Brown.


I read your posts asserting racism as a motive for the dislike of Mike Brown as a coach. What you claimed does not seem logical to me. It seems like you are making some fairly significant assumptions when no one has really raised the issues to which you alluded. It's true that some posters here have made fun of his mouth and verbal patterns, but nothing I've seen here on that had anything to do with his race.

You've been here long enough to see the same posters draw attention mockingly to Steve Blake's appearance, Jordan Farmar's ears, Sasha's hair, and Luke Walton's general dorkiness as just a few easy examples. Was the disdain expressed toward those players a function of racism, and if not, why not?

It is possible to dislike a player or coach for reasons other than race. It does not strike me as logical at all to presume racism when there has been no overt or even subtle reference to it as a motivating factor.


Who here has exhibited any kind of racial discrimination against Brown? Who? We've all basically concluded that Shaw and Scott would have been absolutely welcomed to the team as head coaches. We're all massive fans of the team meaning we support one or more of Kobe Bryant, Andrew Bynum/Dwight Howard, Jodie Meeks, Andrew Goudelock, Metta World Peace, Devin Ebanks, Earl Clark, and Antawn Jamison. If there was a racist sentiment, wouldn't that be counter productive?

The very thought that people here would be against Mike Brown due to his race is insulting.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Finwë on Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:43 pm

wiz, a couple of posts from the gameday thread during game 5:

Uncle_Meat: "Here comes the next k.o. from Karl... hey Brown get a damn clue you boob!"

Weezy: "Good God get Blake off Miller.
Kobe AGAIN, this is nuts."

khmrP: "who's fault was it?"
Response-> Doc Brown: "Maybe Steve Blake, you know the guy that was guarding him. Crazy thought."

Frank Dux: "I've seen enough of Blake. He might be one of the worst defensive players in the league"

kray28: "I want to hear Brown defend his two PG backcourt some more. Blake just couldn't stop Miller. Still, we had this one almost"
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Kobe Bryant 8 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:32 pm

8.

We were a few dumb plays away from making the WCF. We had the Thunder... we HAD them. It was his first season, no real training camp, we lost Odom, didn't really have any defenders to play into his scheme.

With Nash as the floor general and Dwight anchoring, I can see a LOT less complaining coming. Well, people will still complain about rotations... it's easier said than done choosing between Blake/Morris/Goudelock as back-up guards when you're behind a computer. We don't see practice, we don't hear what goes on.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Rooscooter on Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:54 pm

Snakell Beast wrote:I stand by the logic and merit of my arguments in response to criticism of, and in defense of, my claims of racism as a motivating factor for the extreme vitriol, hatred and utter disdain some have expressed about Mike Brown.


I don't follow..... why would an open racist against Blacks watch... follow and otherwise be involved to the point of posting on an on-line forum with a sport that has 85% of the participants that are Black or Foreigners? Why would a racist against Blacks be more concerned about the color of the coach than the color of the players?

It would seem that a "real racist" wouldn't even follow the NBA...... instead, one would think a racist against Blacks would despise the NBA. The NBA would embody just about everything a such a person would hate......
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Rooscooter on Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:03 pm

therealdeal wrote:
TIME wrote:
Snakell Beast wrote:
Secondly, I stand by the logic and merit of my arguments in response to criticism of, and in defense of, my claims of racism as a motivating factor for the extreme vitriol, hatred and utter disdain some have expressed about Mike Brown.


I read your posts asserting racism as a motive for the dislike of Mike Brown as a coach. What you claimed does not seem logical to me. It seems like you are making some fairly significant assumptions when no one has really raised the issues to which you alluded. It's true that some posters here have made fun of his mouth and verbal patterns, but nothing I've seen here on that had anything to do with his race.

You've been here long enough to see the same posters draw attention mockingly to Steve Blake's appearance, Jordan Farmar's ears, Sasha's hair, and Luke Walton's general dorkiness as just a few easy examples. Was the disdain expressed toward those players a function of racism, and if not, why not?

It is possible to dislike a player or coach for reasons other than race. It does not strike me as logical at all to presume racism when there has been no overt or even subtle reference to it as a motivating factor.


Who here has exhibited any kind of racial discrimination against Brown? Who? We've all basically concluded that Shaw and Scott would have been absolutely welcomed to the team as head coaches. We're all massive fans of the team meaning we support one or more of Kobe Bryant, Andrew Bynum/Dwight Howard, Jodie Meeks, Andrew Goudelock, Metta World Peace, Devin Ebanks, Earl Clark, and Antawn Jamison. If there was a racist sentiment, wouldn't that be counter productive?

The very thought that people here would be against Mike Brown due to his race is insulting.


Just a quick point about the enlarged part..... no one posting in an on-line forum has the opportunity, or is in a position to "discriminate" against anyone they don't have direct contract with on a regular basis.

Thinking the coach is incapable of coaching because of the level of pigment in his skin is a bias based on race.

I don't think I've ever read a post here that I would consider a true racist comment..... much less directed at Coach Brown. He deserve criticism for how he handled the team and situations last year for sure but I would need some pretty demonstrable proof before anyone should be throwing that word around...
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby therealdeal on Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:53 pm

^ I knew the wording was wrong as soon as I pushed "post", but I was in a hurry.

You get my point though. I have not seen ANY evidence of racism on this site in regards to Brown and his coaching abilities (or lack thereof).
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:31 pm

Snakell Beast wrote:Describing your personal assessment of the inherent strength or weakness of a given argument is not an effective or logical argument against the substance of the claim. Racism isn't just hating someone because of their skin color, it also INCLUDES making assumptions (about a person's skills or abilities) based on statistically significant influence from subconscious perceptions of characteristics inherent in racial stereotypes perpetrated in popular culture, and making value judgments based on those assumptions.


Ok please point out these assumptions that people have made in this thread where they denigrate Brown's abilities as a coach based on racial stereotypes and we'll determine whether they are valid or not.

To be honest you just sound like some paranoid idiot. Brown isn't the first coach to be heavily ridiculed by fans of the sport. I think it's funny that you try to put together your sentences so eloquently when the meaning of them is nothing more than unsubstantiated trash.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby kray28 on Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:56 am

Most of us were totally on board with Shaw as Phil's replacement. It would have provided continuity and familiarity. Others, going a year before that were open to Scott. I know I was. Both would have been better than Brown.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby jlkr on Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:17 am

I was sold on Shaw or Adelman, not so much on Scott. Shaw for continuity and knowledge of the players; Adelman for his offense and his coaching ability. Both had Kobe's respect in spades and I believe Kobe was expecting one of those two.

I don't really understand why so many like Scott when he has a track record of losing his team. Did it twice: with the Nets after their Finals appearances and again with the Hornets (anyone remember 123-59?). Now maybe he's learned from those experiences, but the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned. Too much risk for the Lakers. Let someone else give him another chance.

I never liked the Brown hire; I thought baseball cap boy got sold a fake bill of goods. OK, the season was exceptional under the circumstances; Brown has that much excuse. This season, he has no excuses for falling short of the WCF. If OKC is beats the Lakers in the WCF, OK I can live with that, that is a great team over there. But nothing short of losing to OKC in the WCF is acceptable. There isn't anyone else in the West that should be able to beat the Lakers in the playoffs so Brown should absolutely get fired if that happens. I like the Eddie Jordan and Bernie Bickerstaff hires, that means Brown is on the hot seat and can be replaced if the Lakers struggle too much after D12 gets healthy.
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

--Robert Frost
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby CarFlagChris on Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:29 am

Phil Jackson, at the end of his last regular season, allowed lowly Sacto to take the Lakers into OT.
In the 2nd round, they were swept.
Before PJ's return, Rudy Tomjanovich was hired based on his winning the championship, twice, as a head coach. Obviously, he didn't survive a single season.

Mike Brown did very well considering the chaos of Odom and Gasol being traded in the rejected CP3 deal, the lack of training camp and the lack of any bench. Everyone should give this issue a rest.
WE WANT PHIL!! WE WANT PHIL!! WE WANT PHIL!!
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Finwë on Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:15 am

lakerswiz wrote:
Finwë wrote:wiz, a couple of posts from the gameday thread during game 5:

Uncle_Meat: "Here comes the next k.o. from Karl... hey Brown get a damn clue you boob!"

Weezy: "Good God get Blake off Miller.
Kobe AGAIN, this is nuts."

khmrP: "who's fault was it?"
Response-> Doc Brown: "Maybe Steve Blake, you know the guy that was guarding him. Crazy thought."

Frank Dux: "I've seen enough of Blake. He might be one of the worst defensive players in the league"

kray28: "I want to hear Brown defend his two PG backcourt some more. Blake just couldn't stop Miller. Still, we had this one almost"
This obviously means nothing to me.

LOL, K.
I was just showing you it wasn't only me who thought Brown's decision to have Blake guard Miller in crunch time was DUMB and was a huge reason why we failed to come all the way back in that game. Most of us watching that game noticed it. I can't believe I'm still explaining why it was dumb, it should be extremely obvious and easy to understand.. I guess we are done here.
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby Snakell Beast on Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:09 pm

First and foremost, the question my OP was responding to was why Mike Brown is SO HATED. In my responses, I am NOT referring to the people on CL...well, most of them anyway. I'm sure there are a few racists on this site, it is basically a mathematical inevitability, however I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT CL WHEN I MENTION RACISM. FYI.

All the people on here defending the forum need to chill, I'm not talking about Club Lakers. I'm talking about ESPN, I'm talking about people on comments sections at the bottom of articles, etc. A lot of the people that HATE Mike Brown hate the things about him that they associate with Black people.

John3:16 wrote:“If you truly believe that I feel sorry for you.”


Wow...feigned pity, what an effective and rational argumentative tactic!

Doc Brown wrote:“Since you've seen these racist remarks and are so sure that a majority of people are racist”


Wow, talk about putting words in my mouth/totally misinterpreting/misunderstanding/misrepresenting my argument!!!! TRY TO REMEMBER, I was referring to the people that HATE Mike Brown, not people that don't like his coaching style or think he is not the best option for our team. HATE. Try to stay on task.

Rooscooter wrote:“I don't follow..... why would an open racist against Blacks watch... follow and otherwise be involved to the point of posting on an on-line forum with a sport that has 85% of the participants that are Black or Foreigners? Why would a racist against Blacks be more concerned about the color of the coach than the color of the players?

It would seem that a "real racist" wouldn't even follow the NBA...... instead, one would think a racist against Blacks would despise the NBA. The NBA would embody just about everything a such a person would hate......”


Well, firstly, there are plenty of racists who watch the NBA because they are willing to admit that “the blacks are definitely better runners and jumpers” who get a thrill from knowing/observing that the vast majority of coaches and owners in professional sports, including the NBA, are white. It reenforces the age old narrative that Black people, while physically gifted (similar to animals like primates) lack a mature adult level of cognitive function in comparison to white skinned races.

It's the argument that is used against black quarterbacks in the NFL. A racist would only really care about a black coach if it was HIS team that the man was coaching, then it becomes about how this inferior coach is ruining his team's chance at winning. The racist that thinks this way would simply laugh at and have general disdain for other teams with black coaches/gms etc. These people also constantly complain about a lack of fundamentals, about high salaries and about the attitudes and behavior of these modern “thug” players.

They actively cheer for the white players on their team, and only marginally accept the selfish diva blacks on their team, provided that the team is winning. If it isn't, it's obviously the black people on the team's fault. You mention the percentage of African Americans in professional basketball, that is the main reason that the league has seen such a drop in certain demographic groups, like the vast majority of white males, especially older ones. It's why the NBA is going so global, they want to counteract the losses they have seen in the states from marketing their predominantly black stars. This is a very commonly known issue, really.

In closing, everyone on Club Lakers needs to be made aware, I AM NOT ACCUSING ANY MEMBERS OF CL OF RACISM. THERE IS NO NEED TO DEFEND THIS FORUM, IT WAS NEVER MY INTENTION, NOR WAS IT EVER IN THE CONTENT OF MY STATEMENTS, TO IMPLY THAT CL HAS ANY RACISM REGARDING MIKE BROWN.

If you read some of my posts, I was HEAVILY critical of Mike Brown. The difference is, even at the height of my doubt and criticism, I never approached feelings of hatred toward Mike. There are people out there (NOT ON THIS BOARD) who literally HATE him. That is what I am talking about.
The End is nigh. Time for a total Cut and Shuffle. Kobe contract was a mistake...time to avoid making more. The future is here, whether we want it to be or not. An era is over, but for the death rattle, and it's time for the cycle to begin anew. Growth and change are scary and painful, but alas...nothing worth achieving comes easily.
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Re: Scale of 1-10, your confidence level in Mike Brown

Postby khmrP on Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:19 pm

maybe calling him Potato head has racial implications?
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