A Series of Proposals To Dissect

A Series of Proposals To Dissect

Postby AVH on Fri May 04, 2007 10:22 am

Im not going to discuss the merits of these ideas. But, I want to summarize a few of them that I have been reading and get your ideas on them for discussion hereafter. They are very generous to other teams as well as helping us become a better more traditionally well rounded team.

All Im going to do is list Whos IN, Whos OUT and the new lineup. You can see by the players, who the trade partner is. These are fair trades. Some more realistic than others, but it all depends on the Busses.

Option 1
Whos IN: Pau Gasol, Magloire MLE, PG at 19,
Whos OUT: Bynum, Kwame, Draft pick or Farmar, Cook

Magloire, Mihm
Gasol, Turiaf
Odom, Walton, Vlad
Kobe, Evans
Farmar or Draft Pick, Sasha

Perhaps you can trade Vlad for Luke Ridnour OR Watson as well here. But I didnt add that.

Option 2 (Interesting that I didnt think about this one before)
Whos IN: Kevin Garnett, Mike James, Mark Blount, Magloire MLE
Whos OUT: Odom, Bynum, Kwame, Farmar, 19

Magloire, Blount, Mihm
KG, Turiaf
Walton, Vlad
Kobe, Evans
Mike James, Sasha

Perhaps you might be able to swap Vlad for Marko Jaric as well

Option 3:
Whos IN: Jason Kidd, Magloire MLE
Whos OUT: Bynum, Kwame, Vlad, 19

Magloire, Mihm
Odom, Turiaf
Walton, Evans
Kobe, Sasha
Kidd, Farmar

Option 4:
Whos IN: Jermaine Oneal, Jamaal Tinsley, Danny Granger, Magloire MLE
Whos OUT: Odom, Bynum, Kwame, Farmar, 19

Magloire, Mihm
Jermaine Oneal, Turiaf, Vlad
Danny Granger, Walton
Kobe, Evans
Jamaal Tinsley, Sasha

Option 5:
Whos IN: MLE PG, trade for Swingman defenderOR MLE Swingman defender, trade for PG

Kwame
Odom
Swingman defender
Kobe
New PG

Bench with remaining pieces

Option 6: The Capspace Plan (davidse's backup plan)
Cap projects to nearly 60Mil next summer.

Do NOT resign Walton unless we can trade Vlad for an expiring contract midway this offseason or midway through the next season.

Your roster at the end of NEXT season, assuming we let all our contracts expire, will be:

Kobe - 20M
Odom - 13M
Bynum - 3M
Cook - 3.5M
Farmar - 2M
Evans - 1.5M
Turiaf - 1M
#19 - 1.5M
Mihm - 2.5M
Walton - 4M

Total of 51.5M

The idea here: To clear as much cap space this season between NOW and next offseason, hopefully by Vlad playing well enough whereby we can trade him for an expiring contract and then make a run at either:

KG, JO or Brand (who has an opt out from his last year at 16M and will most likely do so) to hopefully pair with taht group above.

Then you fill the roster with minimum players for the last 3-4 spots and next years draft pick.

The key, as I showed above, is to have roughly 45-47M in payroll and have available 13-15M to offer a player like JO, KG or Brand to join us. With that above, we are at 51.5M. So, we either sign Walton cheaper OR we trade Cook for an expiring also.

OR

The other thing we can do is try and dump Odom to the Celtics for Theo Ratliff and say Delonte West.

Then when Kwame expires next year, our commitments are:

Kobe - 20M
Bynum - 3M
Vlad - 5.5M
Walton - 4M
Mihm - 2.5M
Turiaf - 1M
Farmar -1.5M
#19 - 1.5M
Cook - 3.5M
Evans - 1.5M
Delonte West - 2.5M

That totals 46.5M

That leaves you with a PG, a SG, a SF and your project center Bynum. The only thing missing. THE BIG TIME SUPERSTAR PF!!!!

Its not a terrible idea guys. Its a risk to wait one year and hope one of those guys is available. But, we field the same team this year and let contracts expire and sign a big name. Not all bad.

As for the other trades above guys. ALL very realistic in my opinion.

The key to getting ANY of those trades is Jamaal Magloire at the MLE. If Jamaal signs, we only lose out on one big man in the scenario.

Kwame, Odom, Bynum? Wow, thats a tough trade to turn down no matter who you are, even for KG. And for us? Well, like I said, Magloire is the key to strengthening our interior with that OTHER big man, JO or KG or Pau!
Last edited by AVH on Fri May 04, 2007 10:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby no_dont on Fri May 04, 2007 10:25 am

the offseason is upon us.
get me pau, JO, KG, GWallace, JOeJohnson, Blake, Watson, Artest, Bibby, Haslem, Prince, Billups, Rip, RLewis, Ray allen, Brand, Corey, Redd, Melo,
Hinrich, BGordon, Posey, Marion, Deng, RJ etc.
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Postby Lakers Showtime24-7 on Fri May 04, 2007 10:45 am

I like the way you think, AVH.

I'm not sure the "options" are up to us to choose from though, but an improvement in lineup is definitely needed. It would kick molasses to work one of those scenarios out. Keeping LO would be a huge bonus too.

Give me your opinion on this please:
Spend now.
Don't you think it's time to splurge a little bit over the summer? We're the Lakers for God's sake. Imagine if our market was a problem such as in Seattle or Memphis. If we were to become one of the top teams in the West for the next 3 years, wouldn't it be easier/less costly to sign quality players and give us a good cap space plan AND a winning team?
I want to buy an authentic, white, #8 Kobe jersey in size 48 or 50. Please message me if you can help.
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Postby AVH on Fri May 04, 2007 10:50 am

Lakers Showtime24-7 wrote:I like the way you think, AVH.

I'm not sure the "options" are up to us to choose from though, but an improvement in lineup is definitely needed. It would kick molasses to work one of those scenarios out. Keeping LO would be a huge bonus too.

Give me your opinion on this please:
Spend now.
Don't you think it's time to splurge a little bit over the summer? We're the Lakers for God's sake. Imagine if our market was a problem such as in Seattle or Memphis. If we were to become one of the top teams in the West for the next 3 years, wouldn't it be easier/less costly to sign quality players and give us a good cap space plan AND a winning team?


The only for us to improve is MLE, draft pick and trade.

We dont have any cap space to sign any great players outright.

Thats why those trade proposals are as you see them. Some of them are downright generous, BUT STILL make the lakers championship contenders.
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Postby Klewfish on Fri May 04, 2007 12:16 pm

I liked option #4 the best.
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Postby davidse on Fri May 04, 2007 1:31 pm

option 1:

i dont' see the grizzlies doing it, but i hope i'm wrong...
i just can't imagine them trading gasol in the west (when they can probably get a great offer from the celtics or bulls) - even for bynum, if they can't also unload a bad contract in the process.

this deal doesn't offer them that, and the salaries actually dont' work in the first place - although it would be quite easy to use fillers here - you need to take care of that if we want a realistic discussion.

i also don't like the pg rotation this leaves us with after spending our mle on a center.


option 2:

again - tweak the salaries. this is just off the top of my head, but i don't think those salaries work, and i'm usually pretty good at these things - even when i do them by memory.
now, that may not seem to matter too much, but actually - if we have to include sasha, or evans (or both) in the deal, this kind of guts our team, and leaves us with too many holes to fill.
we'll have problems with athletic ability too.
and would the wolves trade kg to the lakers without moving either jaric or hudson (their two worst contracts) ? seems a bit optimistic imo...
hope i'm wrong :)


option 3:

i don't see the nets do it - unless they lose carter for nothing and want to compeltely rebuild, and i dont' see the lakers doing it - as they had a chance to make a very similar deal with a 1 year younger kidd - and didn't.
i just don't think it's realistic. if kidd is traded, i think a deal that surrounds him and iverson could be intruiging, but that's a different story all together...


option 4:

i dont know. for the pacers - i'm not sure if bynum for granger is a good enough reason for them to do odom kwame, farmar, and 19 for oneal and tinsley.

i also don't like our pg rotation at all. tinsley is as dependable as dirk in an elimination game against the warrios :)


option 5:

a little too vague... if we can get bell for the mle - that would be a great start. problem is, that once you get past him and blake (and there's high demand for blake, and bell is obviously restricted) - i really see no other option for an mle pg.

but if we do get one of them, need to find the right deal for that swingman...


option 6 :


wow ! that sounds brilliant !!! :))

just joking, look, here's the concept in a nut shell -

if we cant land any of the big fish this off season - which sounds reasonable enough - we are not winning anything in 2007/8, and everyone including kobe just gets more frustrated with no help in sight.

now, the thing is - 3 major power forwards have opt out clauses next summer:

kg, j.o., brand, and to a lesser extent - marion and jamison (don't forget artest too).

all of the top 3 pf's are in situations they dont' particulary like imo.
brand has got to opt out - he only has 1 more year at 16 mil remaining.

kg will probably opt out if it doesn't mean he loses too much money in the process - he also has only 1 more year - but its' a 24 mil year

j.o. has the most money to sacrafice, but if he sees a great situation for him with considerable cap space - he might just opt out to join that situation...

anyway, the idea is that there is every reason to believe that if one of these guys sees the lakers have the right cap space to offer him a new long term deal, and i assume some subtle messages are sent by phil and co - we will get our star pf, and get him without sacraficing bynum, and maybe even odom too.

however, you did list some salary figures that i dont' really get -

evans, sasha - both will be off the books when the season ends.

cook - has got to be one of the first people we move for an expiring contract, since it's probably very doable.

i think that with propper playing time, vlad will be movable for an expiring contract at the deadline, possibly with a 1st rd pick and cash attached.

luke should be resigned, and his contract should be structured so that it only has 4 mil on our books for NEXT summer.

and our mle should only be used on a 1 year deal. i think that players who are looking to prove themselves might go for that - perhaps a bought out francie, or bonzie, etc.

lets say that it will take 2 1st rd picks to move vlad for an expiring deals - this year's pick, and next years' - that also takes them out of our cap numbers.

next summer, this is what we should be looking at:

kobe - 21 mil
odom - 14.5 mil
bynum - 2.8 mil
farmar - 1.1 mil
luke - 4 mil
turiaf's bird rights - 1.7 mil

total - 45 mil, not including roster charges - whatever they are, so i would say about 47 mil.

that's about 12 mil in cap space.

that may not be enough for j.o. to opt out, but brand ? or even kg signing a long term deal ?

i think there's a very reasonable chance.

the thing is - this example did NOT involve trading odom - and the d. west scenario is a great example (we could probably get some more picks or other young talent in the deal too).

another simple solution that will help us stay a very dangerous team this season too - is odom for jamison.

if we pull that off, we could be looking at enough cap space for kg or brand, AND artest, or we could be looking at enough cap space for kg/brand even if we kept vlad, and also kept the 2 1st rd picks i had going out for him, and d. west's bird rights.

a huge factor to consider here - if the wolves, clippers, pacers or kings, think they are about to lose their star for nothing and he is clearly going to sign with the lakers, this may actually force them to trade their player here, and all it will probably cost us is taking on some bad contracts with that player.
you may say it's also an insentive for them to trade those guys elswhere, but it would be difficult to find a situation where they'll get good value back with kg or brand refusing to commit long term...

the point of all this - IF we can't make any significant moves this off season, i think that a plan like this will give kobe and phil much more reassurance that a change is on the way, where as simply adding an mle player might only increase their sentiments that we are going no where.


but again - this is only a plan b for me, i just think it takes us closer to a title than basicaly standing pat and adding a steve blake to the mix.


wow, one of my longest posts ever...lol
i should stop now :)
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Postby AVH on Fri May 04, 2007 2:19 pm

Here's a GREAT trade.

A three teamer:

Lakers

Whos IN: Jermaine Oneal, Jamaal Tinsley, Danny Granger, Magloire MLE
Whos OUT: Odom, Bynum, Kwame, Farmar, 19

Pacers

Whos IN: Bynum, Kwame, Farmar, 19, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff,
Whos OUT: Jermaine Oneal, Jamaal Tinsley, Danny Granger, David Harrison

Celtics

Whos IN: Odom, David Harrison
Whos Out: Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff expiring

Why the deal for all parties:

For the lakers:

They can start this lineup with the above changes:

Magloire, Mihm
Oneal, Turiaf
D.Granger, Walton, Vlad
Kobe, Evans
Tinsley, Sasha

We get our 2 way anchor AND a great athletic DEFENDER in Granger. We get our PG and we sign Magloire for the MLE for our frontcourt

Our bench is not too shabby either.

Also, if we can somehow package Vlad for a pg, that would be great, but as is, its a phenomenal deal.

For the Pacers:

They get RID of Tinsley, Oneal contracts AND they acquire

Bynum, a great prospect center
Gerald Green, a great shooting guard prospect
Farmar, a young full of potential PG
#19 in the draft
and TWO huge expiring contracts totalling over 20M dollars.

They get THAT great core above AND get 15-17M UNDER the salary cap next year.

And all it takes is giving up Granger.

For the Celtics:

Green is a great up and coming shooting guard. BUT, that team, especially if they land the overall #1, would be one impact player away from really contending. That player is Lamar Odom and all it takes is Green to the pacers and the expiring contract of Ratliff

Their projeted lineup would have

West, Rondo
Paul Pierce
Lamar Odom
Al Jefferson
And if they can land the #1 pick, Greg Oden.

Even if they cant. The nucleus, or trio of Odom, Pierce and Jefferson is a great one to conted wiht in the East and Jefferson and Odom can form a great rebounding duo. They already have Perkins to play center if necessary and surely, they will land a top 5 pick to get a big man in the draft like Al Horford. Plus David Harrison is another big body that can be effective for them.

The only thing they give up is the later of Gerald Green for hte now of Lamar Odom.

Its worth it and its somehting Danny Ainge does because he wants to show Boston and Bostonians a winner during his tenure there.

I can't believe how utterly perfect these trades are for EACH team.

Each team gets EXACTLY what they want.

1) The lakers put pieces around Kobe to conted
2) The Pacers rebuild and get WAY under the cap AND obtain phenomenal prospects while doing so
3) The Celtics and Ainge get more impact players for PP and Jefferson with Odom and Harrison coming on board and a top 5 pick surely to follow.

Where's Mitch Cupchak!!!

Get this done Mitch!!!
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Postby DALakeshow on Fri May 04, 2007 2:24 pm

The problem i have with Magloire is he is so slow and unathletic. We would get destroyed by athletic teams. Kwame is much quicker with his rotations.
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Postby AVH on Fri May 04, 2007 2:29 pm

David,

Option 1

The numbers work. Dont include Magloire. Hes the MLE

The numbers work to the 75% rule

Option 2

The numbers work to the 75% rule

Option 3

Carter will opt out and the Nets will rebuild. IF he doenst, then fine, its a moot point.

But, kidd isn't getting any younger.

You get Kidd and sign Magloire, you lose nothing inside, keep Odom and add a hall of fame Kidd, who frankly, doesnt seem to be slowing down. HIs style of game simply doenst merit that it would.

Option 4

Who knows. There are endless possibilities. If we could fulfill both positions, we would strengthen ourselves big time.

Options 5

Granger is the key, but I offered AN EVEN BETTER trade above. A 3 way, the ones you like!

Option 6

WOW....you are amazing man. AMAZING.

Jamison for Odom and he expires AND Then sign Francis or Bonzi to a one year MLE.

We stay competitive AND clear cap space all at the same time.

Im telling you brother, you've got GM skills up the wazoo.

Somebody get Mitch on the phone OR get his freaking email address. We've got some serious people on here who know what the hell they are doing!
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Postby AVH on Fri May 04, 2007 2:30 pm

DALakeshow wrote:The problem i have with Magloire is he is so slow and unathletic. We would get destroyed by athletic teams. Kwame is much quicker with his rotations.


Disagree.

Paired wiht Oneal or KG or GAsol, he just needs to bang down low, fight for boards and be an intimidator.

He'll rebound and bang more than Kwame ever did. Not sure about rotations. But we played against him this year. He was effective.

Anybody is effective right now.

Ill take him next to KG JO OR Gasol ANYTIME.
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Postby AVH on Fri May 04, 2007 2:33 pm

David,

also, if we traded Odom to the Celtics, we might be able to enhance the deal even more by getting not only West, but perhaps Gerald Green OR Tony Allen to accompany Theo Ratliff.

We have to remember, the Celtics are about the NOW. They want better players as they see that they might be able to contend if they Durant or Oden this summer to pair with Jefferson and Pierce.
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Postby davidse on Fri May 04, 2007 2:34 pm

AVH - numbers don't work.

its a 125% rule. not a 75% rule.

there is a difference.

you use 75% - you get to add a third of the salaries (25%=1/3 of 75) - and you think your deal works.

BUT

since it's a 125% rule, you can only add a quarter of the salaries (25% of 75 if you want to look at it that way... = 18.5%) to make the deal work for the team that sends out the least amount of salary.

so dont' get them confused - it's 125% for a reason - not 75%, and the deals as are presented - don't work.
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Postby AVH on Fri May 04, 2007 2:36 pm

davidse wrote:AVH - numbers don't work.

its a 125% rule. not a 75% rule.

there is a difference.

you use 75% - you get to add a third of the salaries (25%=1/3 of 75) - and you think your deal works.

BUT

since it's a 125% rule, you can only add a quarter of the salaries (25% of 75 if you want to look at it that way... = 18.5%) to make the deal work for the team that sends out the least amount of salary.

so dont' get them confused - it's 125% for a reason - not 75%, and the deals as are presented - don't work.


They work bro, they work. Trust me. And I didnt even do the math by calculator, I did it in my head. They work, trust me.
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Postby davidse on Fri May 04, 2007 2:40 pm

AVH wrote:David,

also, if we traded Odom to the Celtics, we might be able to enhance the deal even more by getting not only West, but perhaps Gerald Green OR Tony Allen to accompany Theo Ratliff.

We have to remember, the Celtics are about the NOW. They want better players as they see that they might be able to contend if they Durant or Oden this summer to pair with Jefferson and Pierce.



yes, if we do go for cap space, i really like the ratliff+west scenario.

i think green is a little much to ask for, but probably some other assets - future picks etc, will be heading our way, and overall - it's a much better scenario for our "future contender" than say, odom for jamison.

like you said - staying competitive with jamison is very tempting, and might ultimatly be the choice a proud franchize like the laker would make, but ultimatly - a deal like ratliff, west, and other sweetners - whatever they are, would be the deal that gets us in better position in the 2008 summer...

i guess we have a dillema on our hands... :)

that latest pacer version is interesting.
i'm just worried about the pg rotation, but i guess we might have to take a risk in order to have a real shot at improving ?

thanks for the complements btw - back at you.
allways fun to talk trades with people who are equaly exited about it as you are.
and it's defenetly my favorite part of the nba - looking at possible roster moves... :)

good job.
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Postby AVH on Fri May 04, 2007 2:47 pm

davidse wrote:
AVH wrote:David,

also, if we traded Odom to the Celtics, we might be able to enhance the deal even more by getting not only West, but perhaps Gerald Green OR Tony Allen to accompany Theo Ratliff.

We have to remember, the Celtics are about the NOW. They want better players as they see that they might be able to contend if they Durant or Oden this summer to pair with Jefferson and Pierce.



yes, if we do go for cap space, i really like the ratliff+west scenario.

i think green is a little much to ask for, but probably some other assets - future picks etc, will be heading our way, and overall - it's a much better scenario for our "future contender" than say, odom for jamison.

like you said - staying competitive with jamison is very tempting, and might ultimatly be the choice a proud franchize like the laker would make, but ultimatly - a deal like ratliff, west, and other sweetners - whatever they are, would be the deal that gets us in better position in the 2008 summer...

i guess we have a dillema on our hands... :)

that latest pacer version is interesting.
i'm just worried about the pg rotation, but i guess we might have to take a risk in order to have a real shot at improving ?

thanks for the complements btw - back at you.
allways fun to talk trades with people who are equaly exited about it as you are.
and it's defenetly my favorite part of the nba - looking at possible roster moves... :)

good job.


Yeah, I really REALLY like that three way trade man.

I think it can honeslty happen.

Our pg rotation now could NOT be any worse man.

If we had to get someone from the D league OR better yet, a vet like E.Jones or whatever, we'd be better off for this trade.

We fulfill EVERY other key position we ever needed man.

Swing man defender who can hit the three AND drive
elite two way big
Big man do help the elite two way big
Tinsley isn't all bad. He can definitely help us out, thats for sure.

And the other teams woudl probably bite too.
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Postby AVH on Fri May 04, 2007 2:49 pm

David,

one other thing:

In your honest to God's opinion about our management and GM,

what is the likelihood that they can/are capable/ are doing the same thing we have come up with.

I mean, I know we always criticize them, but is it possible they have done this same thing before and continue to and have this creativity?

I know you are on realgm, take my trade above with the 3 way and post it and ask them what they think as fans.

Who knows, maybe someone knows someone and we can get this thing done!
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Postby davidse on Fri May 04, 2007 2:50 pm

AVH - first of all - sorry about the first scenario - for some reason i thought gasol was making 16 mil, but i was wrong and the salaries do work.


second scenario - i was right, numbers don't work -

kg/blount/james = 34.3 mil.

odom/kwame/farmar/bynum = 25.7 mil.

salaries dont' work. like i suspected - need to sasha or evans.
considering our depleted roster and mle gone for magloire - that could make a difference.
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Postby AVH on Fri May 04, 2007 2:53 pm

davidse wrote:AVH - first of all - sorry about the first scenario - for some reason i thought gasol was making 16 mil, but i was wrong and the salaries do work.


second scenario - i was right, numbers don't work -

kg/blount/james = 34.3 mil.

odom/kwame/farmar/bynum = 25.7 mil.

salaries dont' work. like i suspected - need to sasha or evans.
considering our depleted roster and mle gone for magloire - that could make a difference.


The draft pick my man. That counts as 1.5M. That gets it done.
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Postby davidse on Fri May 04, 2007 2:57 pm

AVH wrote:David,

one other thing:

In your honest to God's opinion about our management and GM,

what is the likelihood that they can/are capable/ are doing the same thing we have come up with.

I mean, I know we always criticize them, but is it possible they have done this same thing before and continue to and have this creativity?

I know you are on realgm, take my trade above with the 3 way and post it and ask them what they think as fans.

Who knows, maybe someone knows someone and we can get this thing done!



i dont know man. you have to assume they are creative enough - i mean, it's their job, and there's more than one person making suggestions, so i'd be surprized (and very diappointed) if creativity is the issue.
i can only assume that lack of vision, bad overall strategy (cap space plans...), and far from perfect talent evaluation have a lot to do with what they've been doing and what they haven't been doing...

i hope that what might be a new sense of urgency would wake them up.

i'm really disapointed. for years i've thought we have some great moves we could have pulled off - even relatively minor moves, and low risk moves, that would have helped this team a lot, even this year, but they just didn't seem to realize how much help we need, and how we can't afford to pass up any opportunity to get that help.
i suppose lack of vision would be my biggest rant against them.

i really hope that creativity isn't the problem here.

i thought mitch did one creative move - the mihm/payton trade, but for 6 years, that's just not enough creativity to get a team to title contention, or even keep it there - since he was handed a championship team...
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Postby davidse on Fri May 04, 2007 2:58 pm

AVH wrote:
davidse wrote:AVH - first of all - sorry about the first scenario - for some reason i thought gasol was making 16 mil, but i was wrong and the salaries do work.


second scenario - i was right, numbers don't work -

kg/blount/james = 34.3 mil.

odom/kwame/farmar/bynum = 25.7 mil.

salaries dont' work. like i suspected - need to sasha or evans.
considering our depleted roster and mle gone for magloire - that could make a difference.


The draft pick my man. That counts as 1.5M. That gets it done.



the pick doesn't count as any money value in trades.

and if you want to trade the player after you signed him - you have to wait till december, and even then he's probably byc - but i'm not sure about that.

but adding a pick to a deal can't be used to balance salaries.
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Postby Lakers#1fan on Fri May 04, 2007 3:04 pm

Forget everything. AVH's 3 way between LAL, Ind, and Boston is the best of all. and also i'd like to give avh some props that is some damn big thinking.


AVH for LAL GM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :jam2:
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Postby KB24 on Fri May 04, 2007 3:05 pm

davidse wrote:
AVH wrote:
davidse wrote:AVH - first of all - sorry about the first scenario - for some reason i thought gasol was making 16 mil, but i was wrong and the salaries do work.


second scenario - i was right, numbers don't work -

kg/blount/james = 34.3 mil.

odom/kwame/farmar/bynum = 25.7 mil.

salaries dont' work. like i suspected - need to sasha or evans.
considering our depleted roster and mle gone for magloire - that could make a difference.


The draft pick my man. That counts as 1.5M. That gets it done.



the pick doesn't count as any money value in trades.

and if you want to trade the player after you signed him - you have to wait till december, and even then he's probably byc - but i'm not sure about that.

but adding a pick to a deal can't be used to balance salaries.


you are right in this one.

If you sign a player you gotta wait till dec. 15th

picks don´t have salary value either.

BYC (base year compensation) means that their salary will only partially count...A BYC player's trade value as outgoing salary is 50% of his new salary, or his previous salary, whichever is greater. BYC applies only to players who re-sign with their previous team and receive a raise greater than 20%. It also applies only when (and as long as) the team is over the salary cap.
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Postby davidse on Fri May 04, 2007 3:17 pm

KB8@CL wrote:
davidse wrote:
AVH wrote:
davidse wrote:AVH - first of all - sorry about the first scenario - for some reason i thought gasol was making 16 mil, but i was wrong and the salaries do work.


second scenario - i was right, numbers don't work -

kg/blount/james = 34.3 mil.

odom/kwame/farmar/bynum = 25.7 mil.

salaries dont' work. like i suspected - need to sasha or evans.
considering our depleted roster and mle gone for magloire - that could make a difference.


The draft pick my man. That counts as 1.5M. That gets it done.



the pick doesn't count as any money value in trades.

and if you want to trade the player after you signed him - you have to wait till december, and even then he's probably byc - but i'm not sure about that.

but adding a pick to a deal can't be used to balance salaries.


you are right in this one.

If you sign a player you gotta wait till dec. 15th

picks don´t have salary value either.

BYC (base year compensation) means that their salary will only partially count...A BYC player's trade value as outgoing salary is 50% of his new salary, or his previous salary, whichever is greater. BYC applies only to players who re-sign with their previous team and receive a raise greater than 20%. It also applies only when (and as long as) the team is over the salary cap.



thanks.

yeah, i know what byc means and i knew about the dec. 15th part, i just wasn't sure if new rookie deals were byc too...
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Postby blakeruns on Fri May 04, 2007 3:34 pm

for some reason i just do not see 4 new starters around Kobe next year.
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Re: A Series of Proposals To Dissect

Postby thevilOne on Fri May 04, 2007 3:48 pm

AVH wrote:Im not going to discuss the merits of these ideas. But, I want to summarize a few of them that I have been reading and get your ideas on them for discussion hereafter. They are very generous to other teams as well as helping us become a better more traditionally well rounded team.

All Im going to do is list Whos IN, Whos OUT and the new lineup. You can see by the players, who the trade partner is. These are fair trades. Some more realistic than others, but it all depends on the Busses.

Option 1
Whos IN: Pau Gasol, Magloire MLE, PG at 19,
Whos OUT: Bynum, Kwame, Draft pick or Farmar, Cook

Magloire, Mihm
Gasol, Turiaf
Odom, Walton, Vlad
Kobe, Evans
Farmar or Draft Pick, Sasha

Perhaps you can trade Vlad for Luke Ridnour OR Watson as well here. But I didnt add that.

Option 2 (Interesting that I didnt think about this one before)
Whos IN: Kevin Garnett, Mike James, Mark Blount, Magloire MLE
Whos OUT: Odom, Bynum, Kwame, Farmar, 19

Magloire, Blount, Mihm
KG, Turiaf
Walton, Vlad
Kobe, Evans
Mike James, Sasha

Perhaps you might be able to swap Vlad for Marko Jaric as well

Option 3:
Whos IN: Jason Kidd, Magloire MLE
Whos OUT: Bynum, Kwame, Vlad, 19

Magloire, Mihm
Odom, Turiaf
Walton, Evans
Kobe, Sasha
Kidd, Farmar

Option 4:
Whos IN: Jermaine Oneal, Jamaal Tinsley, Danny Granger, Magloire MLE
Whos OUT: Odom, Bynum, Kwame, Farmar, 19

Magloire, Mihm
Jermaine Oneal, Turiaf, Vlad
Danny Granger, Walton
Kobe, Evans
Jamaal Tinsley, Sasha

Option 5:
Whos IN: MLE PG, trade for Swingman defenderOR MLE Swingman defender, trade for PG

Kwame
Odom
Swingman defender
Kobe
New PG

Bench with remaining pieces

Option 6: The Capspace Plan (davidse's backup plan)
Cap projects to nearly 60Mil next summer.

Do NOT resign Walton unless we can trade Vlad for an expiring contract midway this offseason or midway through the next season.

Your roster at the end of NEXT season, assuming we let all our contracts expire, will be:

Kobe - 20M
Odom - 13M
Bynum - 3M
Cook - 3.5M
Farmar - 2M
Evans - 1.5M
Turiaf - 1M
#19 - 1.5M
Mihm - 2.5M
Walton - 4M

Total of 51.5M

The idea here: To clear as much cap space this season between NOW and next offseason, hopefully by Vlad playing well enough whereby we can trade him for an expiring contract and then make a run at either:

KG, JO or Brand (who has an opt out from his last year at 16M and will most likely do so) to hopefully pair with taht group above.

Then you fill the roster with minimum players for the last 3-4 spots and next years draft pick.

The key, as I showed above, is to have roughly 45-47M in payroll and have available 13-15M to offer a player like JO, KG or Brand to join us. With that above, we are at 51.5M. So, we either sign Walton cheaper OR we trade Cook for an expiring also.

OR

The other thing we can do is try and dump Odom to the Celtics for Theo Ratliff and say Delonte West.

Then when Kwame expires next year, our commitments are:

Kobe - 20M
Bynum - 3M
Vlad - 5.5M
Walton - 4M
Mihm - 2.5M
Turiaf - 1M
Farmar -1.5M
#19 - 1.5M
Cook - 3.5M
Evans - 1.5M
Delonte West - 2.5M

That totals 46.5M

That leaves you with a PG, a SG, a SF and your project center Bynum. The only thing missing. THE BIG TIME SUPERSTAR PF!!!!

Its not a terrible idea guys. Its a risk to wait one year and hope one of those guys is available. But, we field the same team this year and let contracts expire and sign a big name. Not all bad.

As for the other trades above guys. ALL very realistic in my opinion.

The key to getting ANY of those trades is Jamaal Magloire at the MLE. If Jamaal signs, we only lose out on one big man in the scenario.

Kwame, Odom, Bynum? Wow, thats a tough trade to turn down no matter who you are, even for KG. And for us? Well, like I said, Magloire is the key to strengthening our interior with that OTHER big man, JO or KG or Pau!


Great job AVH. Lots of possible ways to go. But just seeing Sasha in your senerios make me want to :hurl:

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