Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby JSM on Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:58 am

Mike Bresnahan of the LA Times wrote:Charles Barkley and Shaquille O'Neal have never hidden their thoughts on the Lakers.

Earlier this month, in fact, O'Neal said Dwight Howard was the third best center in the league, behind Andrew Bynum and New Jersey's Brook Lopez.

So it wasn't overly surprising to hear the TNT analysts give a thumbs down to the Princeton-style offense the Lakers have employed this preseason.

"I've always said I want my accountants from Princeton, not my offense," Barkley said in a conference call Tuesday with reporters.

Added O'Neal: "If they're going to switch offenses, they should go back to the triangle."

The Lakers are 0-6 in exhibition play but have been short-handed most of the month. Dwight Howard just made his Lakers debut Sunday and Jordan Hill practiced Wednesday for the first time since sustaining a back injury two weeks ago. Hill will probably play Wednesday against the Clippers and Howard will likely play again Thursday against Sacramento in the Lakers' exhibition finale.

Barkley wasn't completely dour on the Lakers.

"The Lakers and the Celtics are the two biggest things that have ever happened to the NBA," he said. "The Lakers and Celtics are money-making gold mines. [The Lakers] are in the conversation for the next five years with a legitimate chance to win the championship. There are only a couple teams who can say that. The Lakers are just amazing to me."

TNT analyst Reggie Miller added, "You always have to put great product on the floor and that's what the Lakers have done the last 30-40 years."

Barkley even provided a way for the Lakers to prevail if they meet Miami in the NBA Finals.

"The only way to beat them is to beat them up physically," Barkley said, calling the Heat a "very small team."

"LeBron James is great but he can't stop Pau Gasol and Dwight Howard."
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby revgen on Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:02 am

I agree with Shaq on one thing. We should have just stayed with the triangle. Both Princeton and the Triangle are "automatic" offenses in which plays are not called and it involves all 5 players executing based on how the defense is set up. We decided to go to a "traditional" play calling offense to disastrous results. Now we're back to running another "automatic" offense again.
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby therealdeal on Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:05 am

Hm. Barkley was surprisingly complementary.

Shaq's opinion was something I could have predicted. :man10:
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby Center Court on Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:34 am

Shaq just likes to take shots wherever and whenever he has the opportunity and he's proven that over his career...
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby Texas Lakers Fan on Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:46 am

Shaq spouting his usual trollish non sense. Chuck actually made logical sense with his comments.
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby TIME on Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:31 am

Shaq and Chuck's offensive preference in their primes: Gimme the ball and get outta my way!
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby lakersStan24 on Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:49 am

Nice to see that Charles Barkley and Reggie Miller at Least Respect Us
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby LakRfAn on Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:56 pm

I agree. You don't install a run & cut offense when your starting five's average age is 73 and when you have arguably the best pick and roll player of all time running the point.

Run the damn pick and roll over and over and over and over again with this team. It was unstoppable when Nash was passing to Gortat, Frye and Dudley. Maybe it can work with Kobe, Dwight and Pau?!
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby therealdeal on Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:26 pm

Or maybe Nash is 38 and he can't physically handle that???

Why can't people understand that part of why he is here is so that he doesn't have to run the offense 100% of the time? And what a waste of Kobe Bryant to be relegated to playing like Jared Dudley.
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby revgen on Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:29 pm

Anybody who thinks Nash wants to run P&R over and over again needs to watch his press conference interview.
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby LakRfAn on Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:59 pm

To the above two posters:

So you think that Kobe and Nash are going to be effective running around picks and moving without the ball?

During stretches when they've done that - especially in the case of Nash - they were completely taken out of the games
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby revgen on Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:08 pm

1) The triangle is an "automatic" offense, just like the Princeton offense. If Kobe can play out of the triangle, he can play within the Princeton offense too.

2) Nash has made it clear in his press conference interview that he doesn't want to have the ball in his hands all the time. He's getting too old to do that at this point in his career. If he wanted to do that, he would have gone to Toronto for more money. Will it be an adjustment for him to play off the ball? Probably, but he's a smart high-IQ player and he has one of purest strokes in the NBA from distance and he'll get open looks with Dwight and Pau in the post. He'll figure it out.
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby therealdeal on Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:19 pm

For the first time in a long time, I agree with revgen.

And it's not like I'm saying we shouldn't use Steve Nash like he was used in Phoenix. All that I'm saying is that with a system offense in place, we don't have to OVER-use him. He's 38 years old. He doesn't want or need to control the ball every single possession. We have an offense in place so that all of our names can contribute as they should.

Nash should control the ball early and he should control the ball late, but in between other guys need to pick up the slack. We don't need to run Nash into the ground.
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby Lakerjones on Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:34 pm

And I'll have to agree to disagree with some of the above. First off, why is Nash doing what he has done his whole career going to "wear him out," i.e. playing the Point Guard position, being the floor leader, running the offense? The way we are going to wear him out is if Mike Brown insists on running him tons of minutes like 35 or so a game. It's not any particular offense. There's nothing inherently more tiring about Nash running the show than running around in a motion offense without the ball. The difference is he's just not going to be nearly as effective.

We brought in one of the greatest point guards of all time. We don't have to force him to play like he played on the Suns. If you guys noticed we happen to have other All Star caliber players here, as in Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol and Kobe Bryant. Nash has NEVER had the luxury of having this many great offensive weapons by his side. Just because he plays point guard and distributor doesn't mean he has to do more work.

Besides look at John Stockton - the guy played pick and roll exclusively until he was 41 years old. I'm not even advocating that we play all pick and roll. But I do think it should be the bread and butter of what we do. When you have a PG like Nash, and highly mobile bigs like Howard and Pau, run a lot of pick and roll and pick and pop. When you want to give Nash a break, let Kobe handle the ball. There's nothing strange about that. Look at how Kobe and Howard ran that together. Looked freaking great. Kobe and Pau won two championships playing like that as well. We have so many weapons and we finally have a point guard capable of getting people the ball. Utilize it or it's going to be a waste of a season. Again, I'm not saying you have to scrap the Princeton, just use it sparingly with the starters (i.e. Nash) and use it more with whoever is playing backup PG. It's the only thing that makes sense.
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby revgen on Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:46 pm

Stockton was splitting minutes with Mark Jackson when he was 41 years old. He wasn't playing more than 27 minutes per game. Mark Jackson is also a top 10 all-time NBA assist leader, just like Stockton, so even when John sat, the Jazz never suffered.

We, on the other hand, have Steve Blake.

We need Nash out there longer than 27 minutes per game IMO. Not only because he's by far our best playmaker, he's also our best shooter, and we need shooting to space the floor for our 2 bigs. If we play him 35 minutes per game, we need to have stretches where he's simply acting as a floor spacer so he doesn't wear out.
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby kray28 on Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:56 pm

If you're a Laker fan, you have plenty of reasons to be insecure. The big 3 causes for concern would be age, health, and coaching. A vote of confidence from Barkley (aka the Barkley Kiss of Death™) isn't something that inspires additional confidence.
Last edited by kray28 on Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby baddmann28 on Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:56 pm

I agree with Shaq on this one. If you are going to change the O, go back to the triangle. But I'll say what he didn't finish.

Fire Brown, hire Either Rambis or Shaw who will install it.


Unless Phil has the itch, then he'll bring Rambis and Shaw back for one more year of grooming. :jam2:
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby kray28 on Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:58 pm

And Shaq is right about the Tri...I hate to say it. We should have never gone away from it.
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby kray28 on Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:06 pm

Here's what I see to be problem right now (especially after the Nash acquisition):

The Princeton, like the Tri, takes the ball out of the hands of a ball dominant point like Nash. Why you want to do that is puzzling on multiple levels.

The offense we ran last year..actually needed a point, but we didn't actually have one. The fix to that was to move to a system offense like the Princeton because it doesn't need a great PG.

But then Mitch landed Nash...but the plan to install the Princeton did not change. We should have immediately realized that plan to transition to a systemic Princeton would have to be gradualized...and we should use Nash's playmaking skills to full effect until the Princeton concepts are fully entrained into the players (it will take a long time).

The front office made great personnel moves, but the coaching game plan was and is still a mess.
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:31 pm

We probably would have kept running the triangle had Shaw been the coach since he had loads of experience as a player and a coach under the system, but in the shortened lockout there was no way in hell Clown would have been able to handle that.
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:34 pm

As for the Princeton I don't think it's such a big deal when it comes to Nash. They won't be running it every time down the floor and Nash is still free to run pick and roll when he's out there by himself with Pau or Howard. We haven't even seen any of our real rotations yet.
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby thkthebest on Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:28 pm

Barkley's smarter than people think. He's just not articulate so he comes off sounding dumb.
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby Tragic on Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:45 pm

JSM wrote:
Mike Bresnahan of the LA Times wrote:
"I've always said I want my accountants from Princeton, not my offense," Barkley said in a conference call Tuesday with reporters.



:man10:
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new offense

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:55 pm

thkthebest wrote:Barkley's smarter than people think. He's just not articulate so he comes off sounding dumb.


Didn't he say something about this one time? That he sounds really stupid on TV because he has to take his time and make sure he doesn't say something offensive lol
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Re: Shaq and Chuck on the Lakers and their new

Postby jimbo327 on Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:20 pm

I have to agree with them. We have Nash. We should not be running a system where it takes the ball out of his hands. And if we do run a system, we might as well run the triangle. But it doesn't matter, Mike Brown has no idea how to run anything besides iso ball with Kobe.
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