Shelburne: Lakers Plan To Huddle And Assess Options

@phoenixrisingla

I absolutely agree that system and style affect players. But when you have games shooting 2-11 and having games with 2 points on 1-6 shooting then the problem isn't only the scheme.

You are making it too easy if you blame the system for Pau's struggles...the guy is eating up a 5th of the teams salary while doing literally nothing. I'm not only mad at his pathetic offensive performance, but he plays without the hunger and determination thats necessary to be successful. I have seen enough sequences of Pau passing up on wide open looks or not bothering to post up with 6 inch players defending him.

At some point, you have to want it and I clearly don't see him wanting it. Is he the reason this team sucks? no, obviously a team with Kobe, Nash and Howard should win games without him so this team has Jay-Z's famous 99 problems...but Pau is the one who is way below expectations. Ever since Phil's final season he has been on the edge playing like garbage....every time there is an excuse...international play, played too much C, needs a PG, too unselfish, lets see him with Nash, lets see him in the playoffs when it counts, bla bla bla...

he is getting schooled left and right and benched rightfully.

phoenixrisingla wrote:

KB24 wrote:

phoenixrisingla wrote:Did anyone who's calling for Pau to be traded watch him BEAST for Spain over the summer?

Love how we've had two coaches in a row fail at using one of the best low-post scorers in the league correctly, and our answer is to trade the player.

please...Pau started the suck fest when Phil was here and Pau started to get owned by scrubs like Hayes or Landry before he got raped by Dirk in the post-season....that was the start of the end.

Also great players will get theirs, no matter what. Can't blame the coach when a big skilled player is shooting 30% in the paint...

Pau doesn't have it, actually he never had it. But in the past he was talented enough to overcome soft play and contribute...clearly, he isn't anymore.

He played poorly in the playoffs in Phil's last year. True. But he played well during that season.

Since then he has been playing out of position and asked to do things that are not what he does.

Pau shooting three's isnt the coach's fault? I didnt see that much of that during his run with Phil. I saw him in the paint, scoring a lot. Then I saw him later with two rings.

You can say "great players get theirs no matter what" if you want, but schemes/systems affect players. Especially those that were never really aggressive types to begin with.

Spain played him the way youre supposed to and he destroyed. I'll bet its hard to keep your effort level at its peak when you've had 2 sub-par years because you are not being allowed to do what you do best.

And we are telling you that as long as he's a Laker, he will play out of position and be the 3rd option. So he won't be motived. So there is no point keeping him. He checked out years ago.

KB24 wrote:@phoenixrisingla

I absolutely agree that system and style affect players. But when you have games shooting 2-11 and having games with 2 points on 1-6 shooting then the problem isn't only the scheme.

You are making it too easy if you blame the system for Pau's struggles...the guy is eating up a 5th of the teams salary while doing literally nothing. I'm not only mad at his pathetic offensive performance, but he plays without the hunger and determination thats necessary to be successful. I have seen enough sequences of Pau passing up on wide open looks or not bothering to post up with 6 inch players defending him.

At some point, you have to want it and I clearly don't see him wanting it. Is he the reason this team sucks? no, obviously a team with Kobe, Nash and Howard should win games without him so this team has Jay-Z's famous 99 problems...but Pau is the one who is way below expectations. Ever since Phil's final season he has been on the edge playing like garbage....every time there is an excuse...international play, played too much C, needs a PG, too unselfish, lets see him with Nash, lets see him in the playoffs when it counts, bla bla bla...

he is getting schooled left and right and benched rightfully.

I actually agree with most everything you said.

I just think that you are drastically underestimating the effect that pulling a low-post player out to the 15-20ft range has on his game.

He looks disinterested to you? Yeah, I can see that, he doesnt know how to be effective in a role that he's not made for. Just because he can occasionally shoot jumpers doesnt mean we should stretch our best low-post scorer to the perimeter.

Pau as primary low post option: 2 chips
Bynum as primary low post option: Bounced from 2 playoffs
Dwight as primary low post option: sub .500 record

Maybe a little overly simplistic, but it is what it is.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, but I think you're takin gto much responsibility off of D'Antoni for trying to force his system on players that it doesnt work for.

At this point I think we'd be better off having Pau spell Dwight at C.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:And we are telling you that as long as he's a Laker, he will play out of position and be the 3rd option. So he won't be motived. So there is no point keeping him. He checked out years ago.

And can you explain to me WHY?

Last time we played him in his natural scoring position we won 2 championships.

phoenixrisingla wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:And we are telling you that as long as he's a Laker, he will play out of position and be the 3rd option. So he won't be motived. So there is no point keeping him. He checked out years ago.

And can you explain to me WHY?

Last time we played him in his natural scoring position we won 2 championships.

Our coach. He has a certain style that he likes and he won't change it.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:

phoenixrisingla wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:And we are telling you that as long as he's a Laker, he will play out of position and be the 3rd option. So he won't be motived. So there is no point keeping him. He checked out years ago.

And can you explain to me WHY?

Last time we played him in his natural scoring position we won 2 championships.

Our coach. He has a certain style that he likes and he won't change it.

So you're willing to trade one of the games efficient low-post scorers who brought us 2 banners and undo all the work that Mitch did in assembling this roster, because they hired a coach over the phone to stick it to Phil?

Seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face to me...

statistically Pau is shooting a worse fg% in the paint then he is from the perimiter, unless this stat isn't as telling as the +/- stat

khmrP wrote:statistically Pau is shooting a worse fg% in the paint then he is from the perimiter, unless this stat isn't as telling as the +/- stat

That is depressing. What are the numbers perimeter vs. paint?

NOW they plan to huddle and discuss options??????

Why weren't they huddling weeks ago when the Lakers were 9 and 14? Was it really "let's wait for Nash to fix everything?" That is crazy. The holes and misfits for MDA's system have been obvious for many weeks. It was obvious that Gasol QUIT on the team after MDA and Kobe called him out -- CHOOSING to sit out on his own, without the trainers advising him to do so. He goes -20 in a game and there is no huddling then?

So NOW, after all 3 bigs are down, and it appears that the Lottery is much more likely than the playoffs (with the Lakers looking at 5 more losses in the next 7 games), they huddle? Now -- after Cousins has regained confidence in his game, and Love is hurt (so Minny likely won't want to deal for an often-injured Gasol). Idiots.

phoenixrisingla wrote:

khmrP wrote:statistically Pau is shooting a worse fg% in the paint then he is from the perimiter, unless this stat isn't as telling as the +/- stat

That is depressing. What are the numbers perimeter vs. paint?

just taking it from another poster so take it for what its worth but in the paint something like 31% or something and jumpshots is around 41%.

Patience is fine, I trust Mitch, but the longer they wait the more this season slips away.

^ He pulled the trigger quick on letting Brown go. I don't think he'll wait too much longer to do something. Don't know the magnitude though.

socallakerlove wrote:^ He pulled the trigger quick on letting Brown go. I don't think he'll wait too much longer to do something. Don't know the magnitude though.

I'm not sure Mitch gets the final decision on Coach's, but it's hard to know what he's thinking. Possible he agrees with a lot of fans that player personnel isnt the issue...

socallakerlove wrote:^ He pulled the trigger quick on letting Brown go. I don't think he'll wait too much longer to do something. Don't know the magnitude though.

No, he didn't. It was all Dr. Buss and Jim. There were reports saying Mitch wanted to wait, keeping Brown.

There is no reason to doubt Mitch's ability to make a good move. He will do what's in the best interest of the team. I would like to see a move made though.

Phoenix trying to trade for gay centered around dudley and 1st rounders. Theres gotta be a way to top that offer or do a three way for gay. Nash, kobe, gay, jamison, dwight would be smooth on offense...

jjin28 wrote:Phoenix trying to trade for gay centered around dudley and 1st rounders. Theres gotta be a way to top that offer or do a three way for gay. Nash, kobe, gay, jamison, dwight would be smooth on offense...

cost savings for Mem, just like the Pau trade for Kwame.

abeer3 wrote:i'm fine with patience. pau's trade value is at rock bottom, and he's the only piece that they should consider moving. trying to integrate the new pieces will be another adjustment period, anyway. better to try and right the ship with what's here, then look at a roster revamp in the summer. at that point, you can also evaluate whether you want to fall prey to the sunk cost effect with dantoni. to trade for dantoni pieces now might be throwing good money after bad.

^^ Totally agree with you on this abeer3. I think moving Gasol in the summer is the time to do it. Unless of course there's some incredible deal out there, but I truly doubt that at this point.

I would hope that they would do something else now though. Either a small trade of some of the weaker bench guys or even just picking up Kenyon Martin, who I dislike, but beggars can't be choosers with 3 bigs hurt.

As I've mentioned many times I wish we would get a capable backup 3 and drop Ebanks or Morris.

The FO (minus Kupchak) would absolutely get rid of Pau if they could. IMO, they *can* view Pau as the lone remaining piece from the Triangle era and they would love nothing better than to rid themselves of everything to do with Phil and his Triangle. They passed on Shaw and Phil, and they wanted Slowtime back, so what's it to them?

phoenixrisingla wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:

phoenixrisingla wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:And we are telling you that as long as he's a Laker, he will play out of position and be the 3rd option. So he won't be motived. So there is no point keeping him. He checked out years ago.

And can you explain to me WHY?

Last time we played him in his natural scoring position we won 2 championships.

Our coach. He has a certain style that he likes and he won't change it.

So you're willing to trade one of the games efficient low-post scorers who brought us 2 banners and undo all the work that Mitch did in assembling this roster, because they hired a coach over the phone to stick it to Phil?

Seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face to me...

khmrP wrote:

jjin28 wrote:Phoenix trying to trade for gay centered around dudley and 1st rounders. Theres gotta be a way to top that offer or do a three way for gay. Nash, kobe, gay, jamison, dwight would be smooth on offense...

cost savings for Mem, just like the Pau trade for Kwame.

Even so, a three way trade can send them BETTER cost saving players than Dudley and a pick. Minnesota can send a pick and two nice young pieces over there for Gasol while we get Gay.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:

phoenixrisingla wrote:Did anyone who's calling for Pau to be traded watch him BEAST for Spain over the summer?

Love how we've had two coaches in a row fail at using one of the best low-post scorers in the league correctly, and our answer is to trade the player.

He was obviously motivated. He is not motivated in a Laker uniform because he is 3rd option and that won't change. Having a great game every 10 games or so isn't going to cut it. We need a constant. Right now, Hill is a better PF than Gasol.

and who's fault that doesn't change?

player is not the problem...... Lakers new philosophy is given the roster we have.

Players aren't suppose to conform to coaches systems.... coaches are suppose to come up something to utilize the pieces he has...........

that's what a coach is...... this is not college where it's about systems that you recruit players towards.... it's a short shelf life for coaches..... the good ones adjust what they do towards what they got.......

the fact that this guy is continually being let off the hook is astonishing ........

Lakerjones wrote:

abeer3 wrote:i'm fine with patience. pau's trade value is at rock bottom, and he's the only piece that they should consider moving. trying to integrate the new pieces will be another adjustment period, anyway. better to try and right the ship with what's here, then look at a roster revamp in the summer. at that point, you can also evaluate whether you want to fall prey to the sunk cost effect with dantoni. to trade for dantoni pieces now might be throwing good money after bad.

^^ Totally agree with you on this abeer3. I think moving Gasol in the summer is the time to do it. Unless of course there's some incredible deal out there, but I truly doubt that at this point.

I would hope that they would do something else now though. Either a small trade of some of the weaker bench guys or even just picking up Kenyon Martin, who I dislike, but beggars can't be choosers with 3 bigs hurt.

As I've mentioned many times I wish we would get a capable backup 3 and drop Ebanks or Morris.

I agree with a lot of this.... especially the highlighted stuff

I'm amazed we haven't brought in Delonte yet.. Nash's defense down the stretch against Denver should have been the nail in the coffin. We need a small quick guard that can hit 3's & guard pg's for important stretches when we need big stops.. Sticking Kobe & Ron on those guys is just taking away from the other things we need them to do. Especially when Ron is playing stretch 4 & then having to come guard a PG. It's too confusing for a team that already has chemistry issues & bad rotations..

That's 1 need but far from the only one.. We need an athletic defender at SF who can knock down open shots. We'd be much better replacing Pau with an AK47 or someone like that, who can stretch the floor but also contribute big in other categories.. That rumored deal with Minne from a while bag isn't looking too shabby. Especially if Pek is still part of it, because we could easily flip him for the guard we need in that Delonte role.

nvm