Sooo, John Hollinger Predicts...

I'm not really comparing it, I am simply saying that many great teams in the past had horrible preseason records because no one actually cared much about winning those games. Coaches only want to see who will get minutes and who won't and that's pretty much it. I've seen competitive superstars who would miss a layup and laugh afterwards in preseason. Guys are just trying stuff, sometimes they use moves that just can't work in a given situation, but they use the time to practice them anyway. What else is there to be done except that and working on your stamina?

Let's just wait until November to make that call.

I'm venting obviously. But anyone who watched last night's game can't feel too good about what you saw. I don't care who was out. The fact is that Kobe, Nash and MWP and our sixth man Jamison played the entire first quarter and only managed to score 15 points. What I'm saying is we look like garbage right now. I'm not blaming the players - I don't see any organization whatsoever on the offensive side of things. Were those Princeton sets? Didn't look like it. Just looked like nonsense to me. Meanwhile what is Brown doing playing Nash and Kobe for a full quarter straight? What the hell is that? In a preseason game? He wore Nash out to the point that he was throwing 2 or three errant passes in a row. When was the last time you saw Nash do that? He's gonna run this guy into the ground. Meanwhile Blake looked like pure trash out there.

Barbosa apparently signed with Those Guys. We better do something to fix the backup PG situation and fast. Likewise, I'm hoping Brown gets the hook before we get too deep into the season. This guy is just horrid.

After watching last night's game I seriously don't care any longer about the fact that DirecTV and TWC won't resolve things until the season. I don't need to see any more of that crap.

Lakerjones wrote:I'm venting obviously. But anyone who watched last night's game can't feel too good about what you saw. I don't care who was out....

You really should.

^^ Why? Can't we see some semblance of order even without Pau and Dwight? Is this really the offense we're running? I still watched Kobe and Nash play every minute of the first quarter and it looked like pathetic. And I'm not blaming the players. Things didn't get any better of course when the second unit came in. Did you watch that garbage last night Lakerman JSJ? It was abysmal.

therealdeal wrote:Actually it looked almost exactly like the offense from the last 3 games LJ, but the personnel were different.

First of all Gasol hasn't looked stellar, but it was clear Nash has gotten used to him already. There were plays were Nash threw the ball to the spot Gasol would usually be in. But since Jamison is used to running the 3 and f***ing Aguilar was in for God's sake, Nash threw the ball away. (I'm not cursing at you, I just hated being forced to watch Aguilar on the court... get the f*** out of here with that guy...)

Basically the offense ran the way it should when our starters are in, but since we had guys playing out of position, namely Jamison, we looked awful offensively. Nash played horrible and not all of that can be attributed to the offense, he just had a bad game. You can't blame 4 turnovers on the coaches, that's him.

^^ Fair enough, but two of those turnovers came after Nash had played about 10 1/2 minutes straight in the first quarter. Not sure that wasn't fatigue talking. I'm not blaming anything on our players when I see coaching, or rather lack of coaching like I saw last night.

This is why I'm pissed. This is the one of the best starting fives I've ever seen assembled and every sign I can see is is that Brown is going to fail. The guy's a joke.

If this year is another wasted season, it's going to be a very costly one. I'd feel a hell of a lot better right now if we had a world class coach and even ONE decent backup Point Guard to fill in minutes for Nash. No such help on the horizon.

therealdeal wrote:Actually it looked almost exactly like the offense from the last 3 games LJ, but the personnel were different.

First of all Gasol hasn't looked stellar, but it was clear Nash has gotten used to him already. There were plays were Nash threw the ball to the spot Gasol would usually be in. But since Jamison is used to running the 3 and f***ing Aguilar was in for God's sake, Nash threw the ball away. (I'm not cursing at you, I just hated being forced to watch Aguilar on the court... get the f*** out of here with that guy...)

Basically the offense ran the way it should when our starters are in, but since we had guys playing out of position, namely Jamison, we looked awful offensively. Nash played horrible and not all of that can be attributed to the offense, he just had a bad game. You can't blame 4 turnovers on the coaches, that's him.

Right. Turnovers can only be blamed on the player making the mistakes. Unfortunately technology hasn't come far enough yet to allow for coaches to "control" the movements of the players all the way from the bencg...

therealdeal wrote:Actually it looked almost exactly like the offense from the last 3 games LJ, but the personnel were different.

First of all Gasol hasn't looked stellar, but it was clear Nash has gotten used to him already. There were plays were Nash threw the ball to the spot Gasol would usually be in. But since Jamison is used to running the 3 and f***ing Aguilar was in for God's sake, Nash threw the ball away. (I'm not cursing at you, I just hated being forced to watch Aguilar on the court... get the f*** out of here with that guy...)

Basically the offense ran the way it should when our starters are in, but since we had guys playing out of position, namely Jamison, we looked awful offensively. Nash played horrible and not all of that can be attributed to the offense, he just had a bad game. You can't blame 4 turnovers on the coaches, that's him.

Right. Turnovers can only be blamed on the player making the mistakes. Unfortunately technology hasn't come far enough yet to allow for coaches to "control" the movements of the players all the way from the bench...

Sure, I'd like to see us winning preseason games by 50, but at the end of the day it really doesn't matter. Savvy vets like Nash are going to tinker in the preseason (especially when working in a new offense and a new team with new teammates). I'm not sweating this at all.

Lakerman JSJ wrote:Sure, I'd like to see us winning preseason games by 50, but at the end of the day it really doesn't matter. Savvy vets like Nash are going to tinker in the preseason (especially when working in a new offense and a new team with new teammates). I'm not sweating this at all.

Well, I'm not sure anyone is asking for the team to win these games by 50. I think a question mark that is popping up is why aren't we even competitive? You've got Kobe, Jamison and MWP playing more minutes than any Utah player. Can't use the "they don't care" reasoning because no one scores 31 points in a game they don't care about. I get the tinkering thing, I totally do but have they found something that works so they can continue to fine tune it? This isn't at all comparable to the Shaq/Kobe teams because a) the stars never played and b) they didn't have to play because there wasn't anything to tinker with.

There are obviously a lot of other variables at play here. Howard being out the major one here. But I think the reason this is still getting discussion in here, is because it substantiates the concerns (not necessarily the final seeding however) that Hollinger outlined.

Health
Chemistry (aka Tinkering)
Bench

Based solely on observations of the preseason, all 3 of those things continue to be legitimate concerns thus far. The bench play hasn't alleviated my concerns about our depth. And I haven't seen enough chemistry out of the team on a consistent basis outside of a few moments here and there where I can say, ok on day 1 we will have great chemistry. Obviously, health will continue to be an issue with an aging and ailing team.

Whether these things will result in a 4th seed finish in the West remains to be seen obviously. But I guess the point that some people are making is that nothing we have seen thus far, alleviates any of the concerns about the team as we near the regular season. We all thought the bench was vastly improved. Does it look like it? Not to me SO far. We all said chemistry would be no problem with these guys. Looks like there is still some tinkering and chemistry building that needs to happen. And so as Hollinger rightly said, these are things we will need to spend time in the regular season to develop. And developing that in the regular season will cost us some games.

I really don't think anyone is saying that we need to blow this team up because we're winless in exhibition games.

hmm, wonder if we're on pace or below his pace at this point.

So from what i saw in the earlier pages some ppl are mad that the lakers will be in 4th place seed. Is that still getting people mad?

That Hollinger's prediction looks generous at this point is scary. I didn't forsee Nash being out this long though, not sure many did. I also didn't know at the time how good the Clippers bench is.

Below his pace. We'll be lucky if we're even a 6th seed at this point.

I guess my concerns from the previous page proved to be grounded after all, right? I'm not even talking about their current state because to me Nash and Pau getting injured have truly hampered any chance D' Antoni might have had to continue with Bernie's immediate success. Although he doesn't get a total pass because he was misusing Pau for the most part while he did have him and as soon as he came in that free and easy play we had under Bernie's coaching seemed to leave the building. Don't know if it's just because D' Antoni is so tightly wound or what in that regard, but the team lost that looseness and as a result has really seemed ill at ease lately. But that's another discussion.

Anyway, I was right about our team looking like complete crap under Brown. And yes, nothing at all changed once we hit the regular season, so the pre-season did mean something as it was a harbinger of how the team was going to play once it counted. It's crazy to me that everyone was jumping down my throat for stating what seemed more than obvious at the time and proved to be true.

hollinger was wrong guys...

he picked the lakers to finish too high!


6th seed at best

Lakerjones wrote:I guess my concerns from the previous page proved to be grounded after all, right? I'm not even talking about their current state because to me Nash and Pau getting injured have truly hampered any chance D' Antoni might have had to continue with Bernie's immediate success. Although he doesn't get a total pass because he was misusing Pau for the most part while he did have him and as soon as he came in that free and easy play we had under Bernie's coaching seemed to leave the building. Don't know if it's just because D' Antoni is so tightly wound or what in that regard, but the team lost that looseness and as a result has really seemed ill at ease lately. But that's another discussion.

Anyway, I was right about our team looking like complete crap under Brown. And yes, nothing at all changed once we hit the regular season, so the pre-season did mean something as it was a harbinger of how the team was going to play once it counted. It's crazy to me that everyone was jumping down my throat for stating what seemed more than obvious at the time and proved to be true.

To be fair, I don't think we would have looked that bad in Pre-season had Dantoni had a full training camp with the team, and everybody was HEALTHY. But it's tough to say that HEALTH is the main reason we're struggling...a team featuring a still very efficient Kobe Bryant and a 75% Howard with decent role players should STILL be winning games and be better than .500

Yeah, I'd be pretty happy if we got a top 4 seed at this point.

Lakerjones wrote:I guess my concerns from the previous page proved to be grounded after all, right? I'm not even talking about their current state because to me Nash and Pau getting injured have truly hampered any chance D' Antoni might have had to continue with Bernie's immediate success. Although he doesn't get a total pass because he was misusing Pau for the most part while he did have him and as soon as he came in that free and easy play we had under Bernie's coaching seemed to leave the building. Don't know if it's just because D' Antoni is so tightly wound or what in that regard, but the team lost that looseness and as a result has really seemed ill at ease lately. But that's another discussion.

Anyway, I was right about our team looking like complete crap under Brown. And yes, nothing at all changed once we hit the regular season, so the pre-season did mean something as it was a harbinger of how the team was going to play once it counted. It's crazy to me that everyone was jumping down my throat for stating what seemed more than obvious at the time and proved to be true.

Yeah, I hear you man. I was voicing the same concerns. Definitely didn't predict struggles of this magnitude, and frankly, I didn't predict we would "struggle" at all, but I also didn't think Hollinger's predictions were that crazy. I thought they were quite reasonable.

Who would have thought, they would have been unreasonably optimistic? Haha.

I don't think anyone saw us being one of the worst teams in the Western Conference through around 25% of the season.

For all the people who said just give it time, I wonder how many of those are still thinking it will take time? Or how many are realized this whole experiment is turning out to be an epic fail?

I have a feeling the train we all knew was coming after Kobe retires has arrived sooner than we thought. I don't see Howard resigning with a team that won't be a contender. So its possible Kobe's final year will be on a team similar to the one he started with after Shaq left.

If I'm the coach of that team, I just let him finish his last year shooting every chance he gets to try and move up the all time scoring chart. They might only win 25 or 30, but fans will come to watch Kobe score 35 every game.

snackdaddy wrote:For all the people who said just give it time, I wonder how many of those are still thinking it will take time? Or how many are realized this whole experiment is turning out to be an epic fail?

I have a feeling the train we all knew was coming after Kobe retires has arrived sooner than we thought. I don't see Howard resigning with a team that won't be a contender. So its possible Kobe's final year will be on a team similar to the one he started with after Shaq left.

If I'm the coach of that team, I just let him finish his last year shooting every chance he gets to try and move up the all time scoring chart. They might only win 25 or 30, but fans will come to watch Kobe score 35 every game.

yeaaaaah that's jumping the gun a bit don't you think?

22 games into the season with a grand total of 2 games played with all of our big 4 together. and those two games were with a less healthy dwight than we have now. with mike brown as coach.

for the record im one of those who is still thinking it will take time

screw this team, until they start winning and playing with effort and playing smart

screw them in the a-hole.

MDA needs to tweak his system, its a no brainer. dont understand why that wasn't the first thing he did, unless he 's truly dumb and believed he can run this team all season long and into the playoffs.


lol the funny thing is MDA was surprised himself he even got the CALL, and even more when he was HIRED.

Showtime.Revival.05 wrote:

snackdaddy wrote:For all the people who said just give it time, I wonder how many of those are still thinking it will take time? Or how many are realized this whole experiment is turning out to be an epic fail?

I have a feeling the train we all knew was coming after Kobe retires has arrived sooner than we thought. I don't see Howard resigning with a team that won't be a contender. So its possible Kobe's final year will be on a team similar to the one he started with after Shaq left.

If I'm the coach of that team, I just let him finish his last year shooting every chance he gets to try and move up the all time scoring chart. They might only win 25 or 30, but fans will come to watch Kobe score 35 every game.

yeaaaaah that's jumping the gun a bit don't you think?

22 games into the season with a grand total of 2 games played with all of our big 4 together. and those two games were with a less healthy dwight than we have now. with mike brown as coach.

for the record im one of those who is still thinking it will take time

What does that mean, just curious. As in, it's just a matter of time before this team becomes an elite contender? Or, it's just a matter of time before we know for sure whether this team is or is not an elite contender?

if hollinger's calculator predicted steve nash and pau gasol's injury problems, he's better than i thought!

abeer3 wrote:if hollinger's calculator predicted steve nash and pau gasol's injury problems, he's better than i thought!

Well, it's not going to predict that Nash would suffer a fibula injury. But he factored in the team's age and minutes and made the assumption that it is likely that injuries/health would negatively impact this team.

A lot of folks here were in denial about it, but most reasonable people would say that that is a safe assumption.

Where he got it right, and we got it wrong, is in how injuries would impact our record and seeding.