Steve Blake Discussion: Out Indefinitely (p. 102)

There's no pressing need to trade Blake or Duhon.

We still need at least two backup PGs with Nash's age, and both have been getting the job done. If anything, we're likely to move Ebanks for a backup big.

lakerfan2 wrote:

puffyusaf#2 wrote:It is funny how people can't simply give the guy credit for being able to play his game and doing the job we need him to do.

he's been good for the past few games.

but he hasn't been the prime example of consistency with his tenure here. people were expecting the blazers/clippers version of blake, but he really hasn't had many of those type of games.

since returning from his injury, i'd say he's being productive at least.

I have said this one and I guess I'll say it again.

Blake wasn't asked to play the way he played in Portland here. Mike D brought an offense that is open and free flowing where the gaurd can attack. Blake is not an aggressive player like Kobe but he isn't a passive one like Pau either. His game is predicated on being able to move and flow with the ball and NOT just dump it into a post player for a possible set up 3. People forget that when Nash went down Blake was playing great with the starters. Fans keep talking about these major turn arounds for players but the truth is they have been moving without the ball. Blake and Nash are PG's that look to get guys the ball first. They have both been ineffective when our guys just stand still and watch the game. Look at Blakes assist to Twan and Meeks last night. All of them happened because guys moved without the ball. We love EC because he puts in work and moves without the ball. Blake (and Nash) are being more aggressive but the truth of the matter is they are playing better because guys are doing what the coaching staff has screamed all year...move without the ball.

^^^while I give Blake credit for his passing if guys are moving, his offense is what's inconsistent regardless of ball movement or not, one game he'll hit everything in site while other nights he'll look like he forgot how to shoot.

you act like i don't understand that. you don't think players we have had before never moved off the ball? i find that hard to believe.

yes we ran the triangle under phil with blake. yes, under mike brown there was no offense. but, i'm not going to sit here and say that because of those two factors, blake was unable to "play his game". that's blasphemy. if you have the skills to shoot, pass, and dribble, you can play in any offense, and make it work.

Puffy you can't beat the law of averages.

they say Blake hasn't performed well during his career. I'm not going to celebrate when a player has performed for a few games, nor am I going to hate anyone for a few bad games.

Blake has been a disappointment in LA overall, he couldn't even outplay Fish. If you think otherwise, then you are not objective. I'll give him credit when he actually plays a good season for a change.

That's not what puffy is saying. All we're saying is that people will almost always qualify his compliments with insults.

khmrP wrote:^^^while I give Blake credit for his passing if guys are moving, his offense is what's inconsistent regardless of ball movement or not, one game he'll hit everything in site while other nights he'll look like he forgot how to shoot.

that is every player though. Why forgive one player for being off but crucify another? Blake is playing his style of ball now and has steadily improved with each game. When the Lakers don't move then the gaurds (including Kobe) all get trapped by the defense. It makes it easy for teams to negate what we want to do. Paul Pierce last night torched us in the first half mainly because they ran him off screen after screen. When he did that his guys were rotating leaving open lanes. On our side we have guys setting pathetic screens (see Dwight all season) which allows the defense to recover and the trap to be set on our gaurds. Then because no one is moving the gaurds either have to force a shot, force a pass or get stripped. I am not saying Blake is the bestest PG ever and we should throw 15 million at him. What I am saying he is an above average defender, he handles the offense very well and he runs the show better than any of our backups in the recent past. Now that he is being able to move and operate we are seeing his shooting improve and his aggression, when needed, come into games. The guy is not a shoot first guy (just like Nash and Pau) so it isn't a shock when he doesn't shoot a lot. He did the same thing in Portland yet people are complaining like it isn't his game. Give him freedom and he will play the right way. Coach Brown stifled him which is apparent.

lakerfan2 wrote:you act like i don't understand that. you don't think players we have had before never moved off the ball? i find that hard to believe.

yes we ran the triangle under phil with blake. yes, under mike brown there was no offense. but, i'm not going to sit here and say that because of those two factors, blake was unable to "play his game". that's blasphemy. if you have the skills to shoot, pass, and dribble, you can play in any offense, and make it work.

Um yes I am saying players DO NOT MOVE off the ball. Why do you think we love Ariza so much? Because he came in with the energy and moved without the ball. Why do we love EC so much? Because he comes into the game and he moves without the ball. Why did we love Shaq? Because he set up in one spot and then another and then another and then another. He moved without the ball. Kobe? He gets the ball on the block because he moves without the ball. We, as fans, complained all the time about Kobe taking tough shots and not finding teammates yet never placed blame on the teammates. When they started moving Kobe all of sudden became KobeNash. Once they started moving Nash became Nash.

I don't know how you call it blasphemy. Earl Clark has been our shooting star this season yet he was placed way down on the bench. This season has shown Nash, one of the greatest passing PG's in the history of the game, virtually useless because of the way his teammates play with him. All of a sudden Dwight sets a proper pick and people are talking about how magical Nash is again. Two games ago people were calling him garbage. CP3 does none of the great things he does if his guys aren't moving without the ball. That is what makes a PG dangerous. I think it is blasphemy that I have to say that ball movement and player movement is what opens the court up for the gaurds to operate the best. Am I the only one not suprised to see that every time we go on dry spells it just happens to be the same time as our guys are not moving, playing one on one and jacking 3's without passes?

blake looking like he deserves to be, without question, ahead of duhon in the pecking order now. solid, solid stuff recently.

KB24 wrote:Puffy you can't beat the law of averages.

they say Blake hasn't performed well during his career. I'm not going to celebrate when a player has performed for a few games, nor am I going to hate anyone for a few bad games.

Blake has been a disappointment in LA overall, he couldn't even outplay Fish. If you think otherwise, then you are not objective. I'll give him credit when he actually plays a good season for a change.

Here is the problem with that.

1. Blake must of performed well during his career because most Lakers fans wanted him since his Portland days. He hasn't played "offensively" well since his days of being in LA I will agree.

2. He wouldn't say he didn't outplay Fish I would say he Fish has earned the right to be a starter. When Blake played under that system he was asked to feed the ball to the bigs which he did. He almost never looked for his shot. Remember, all the fans were complaining about how no one could get the ball to the bigs and get it into the paint. Blake spent his first years here just dumping the ball into the bigs (and Kobe). Look at Twan, people were hating him saying washed up and old and garbage yet he is still playing the exact same way. What is the difference? Others are finding him when he moves without the ball. He makes a shot they get the assist.

3. And most importantly, I am not saying Blake has been great since coming to LA. In fact, I would agree with everyone that it has been a huge disappointment for him here. What I am saying is that the guy is being able to play the way he played in Portland under Coach D. He has been solid all year but that is overlooked because he doesn't put up points first. My thing and point has always been why can't we give the guy credit when it is due? It is just like Odom1year or Malaco (whatever it is) always coming in to the Kobe thread saying something negative no matter what Kobe has done.

I mean if Blake put up 20 points and 10 assist there will be poster who will say: Yea good game by Blake but that won't happen again. Is that objectivity or just plain hate?

well, these "posters" come here, give credit for the 1-3 games he does well, and hope blake can put together consistent games. i, as a laker fan, always root for a player to do well. it's objectivity.

when a player is just playing timid, or not putting the work, fine, i'll dish out the criticism. we do it for dwight, we do it for kobe. everyone.

He hasn't played timid since his injury though. His jump shot can be pretty inconsistent, but I think you'll find most backup PGs are guilty of the same thing. What's NOT inconsistent is his effort and lately his vision.

lakerfan2 wrote:
when a player is just playing timid, or not putting the work, fine, i'll dish out the criticism. we do it for dwight, we do it for kobe. everyone.

when has blake ever been accused of not putting in the work? All the coaches have said the exact opposite. Kobe has continued to give Blake praise for his tenacity and his work ethic. Did he play timid at times? For me, yes. However, it had been said that he was playing the way the coaches wanted him to play. As for the other players we criticize for almost all the wrong things every time. Someone complained that Dwight only had 13 listed shots which "isn't enough" according to the poster. We had 7 players in double figures yet we have complaints that Dwight didn't get enough touches. My entire point has been for this whole time... give the guy credit when it is due without the added hate.

Chillbongo wrote:Blake has played for 3 coaches as a Laker, each with a different philosophy.

The first coach took him out of the "game" he's been playing his entire career.

With the second coach, he got no training camp in a LOCKOUT season. Not to mention a few different systems and the whole Sessions/Fisher situation put him on the back burner.

The third coach was probably the BEST fit for him, but he stepped on a damn spike strip. Now that he's healthy, and is the TRUE backup pg in a system that is tailored to his play.

With MDA he actually gets to play to his strengths. He knows his role and with Pau out he doesn't have to worry about always playing inside out. I think it's not too crazy to expect games like this from Blake IMO.

Good point.

it doesn't matter what coach or system you play for. you tailor your game to fit the coaches needs. you think players play for the same coach through their entire career? you come to play, you bring your game. blake was primarily a good shooter, that's all we really asked of him. he hasn't really shot outside consistently.

I have to agree with puffy on this one. Blake is playing solid ball right now and has been playing solid ball since his return from that abdominal injury. Really the only issue he's had as a Laker has been health.

puffyusaf#2 wrote:

lakerfan2 wrote:
when a player is just playing timid, or not putting the work, fine, i'll dish out the criticism. we do it for dwight, we do it for kobe. everyone.

when has blake ever been accused of not putting in the work? All the coaches have said the exact opposite. Kobe has continued to give Blake praise for his tenacity and his work ethic. Did he play timid at times? For me, yes. However, it had been said that he was playing the way the coaches wanted him to play. As for the other players we criticize for almost all the wrong things every time. Someone complained that Dwight only had 13 listed shots which "isn't enough" according to the poster. We had 7 players in double figures yet we have complaints that Dwight didn't get enough touches. My entire point has been for this whole time... give the guy credit when it is due without the added hate.

puffy, i was referring to all players, not just blake in particularly.

lakerfan2 wrote:it doesn't matter what coach or system you play for. you tailor your game to fit the coaches needs. you think players play for the same coach through their entire career? you come to play, you bring your game. blake was primarily a good shooter, that's all we really asked of him. he hasn't really shot outside consistently.

That doesn't make sense at all. If that was the case then why do we need Phil Jackson to win Championships? We already had Shaq and Kobe to of the greatest players of all time. Why did Phil modify the triangle for MJ and then again for Kobe? Why did Mike D have to adjust his offense? If you have Dirk on your team you don't play a pound it in the paint game because that isn't Dirk's strengths. Like wise you don't get a team with primary post players to play with Lebron. He needs shooters and cutters around him. Jodi Meeks lead the NBA in spot up shooting last year but this year has been a waste. Why? Because the Lakers were not driving and kicking the ball to play to his strengths. Dwight Howard has the post game of a 5 year old midget but is one of the greatest pick and roll bigs to play the game. Make him a back to the basket post player and its a trainwreck. However, put him in high pick and rolls with guys rotating and its magical. The point is players are traded because they are not built for a system. Lamar Odom, one of the NBA's most versitile players, took years to find his nitch within the triangle. Why? Because his game didn't fit. PJax made him the six man and let the second squad go away from the triangle playing to LO's skills. Can you imagine the Lakers had Pat Riley made Magic play as a forward instead of the PG? Or maybe the 2? It would of been a disaster more likely because Magic's skillsets were of a PG. A passing PG. Coaches job is to try and Maximize a players strength plain and simple. Blake is being maximized now instead of stifled. It really isn't complicated.

lakerfan2 wrote:

puffyusaf#2 wrote:

lakerfan2 wrote:
when a player is just playing timid, or not putting the work, fine, i'll dish out the criticism. we do it for dwight, we do it for kobe. everyone.

when has blake ever been accused of not putting in the work? All the coaches have said the exact opposite. Kobe has continued to give Blake praise for his tenacity and his work ethic. Did he play timid at times? For me, yes. However, it had been said that he was playing the way the coaches wanted him to play. As for the other players we criticize for almost all the wrong things every time. Someone complained that Dwight only had 13 listed shots which "isn't enough" according to the poster. We had 7 players in double figures yet we have complaints that Dwight didn't get enough touches. My entire point has been for this whole time... give the guy credit when it is due without the added hate.

puffy, i was referring to all players, not just blake in particularly.

ok fair enough. Although I think we are overly critical on all our players as a fan base in general.

Blake was great. That is all.

Fantastic offensive game. That was the Blake we used to see against us, hitting 3's, setting up guys, great game.

Superb game. I'm finally feeling like we're beginning to see the Blake we all thought we were getting a couple/few years ago. He seems like himself!! Not the terrible imitation we've suffered watching for so long.

Great stuff from Steve Blake.

This was probably his best game as a Laker. He was moving the ball almost perfectly. He was taking and making the right shots. He was even rebounding the ball effectively.

I know he got kind of worked on by Barea, but to be fair the refs gave him some help and he's a really crafty offensive player.