Steve Blake Discussion: Out Indefinitely (p. 102)

khmrP wrote:

therealdeal wrote:
Blake can't get a whole lot worse, so this season I expect him to get just a bit better. It'll help that he only plays backup PG now.

this theory has been proven wrong over 2 seasons now, i actually do think he can get worse, much worse cause now he's afraid to shoot. At least his 1st yr he took the open shot, now all he does is over pass and takes a shot as last resort most of the time.

Sorry, but you're wrong. Blake's first season here he shot much less than his second. In 2011 he shot 3.9 times per game, in 2012 he shot 5.1 times per game. He shot 2.4 three pointers in 2011 and 3.0 three pointers in 2012. Even taking into account he shot more his second season than his first.

He averaged nearly the same assist/turnover ratio in 2012 compared to 2011, 2.34 and 2.4 respectively. Incidentally that ratio isn't crazy far from his career average of 2.79 assists to turnovers. Definitely worse, but not a ton worse.

The only thing he did significantly worse last season than any of his other seasons was his 3 point percentage which dropped from about 37% to about 33%, but like you said he was forced to take a lot of bailout shots. His percentage from 3 on spot up opportunities according to synergy sports was actually closer to 36%. Not amazing, but not bad either.

Man, I guess with the improvements the Lakers made it was going to be down to Blake being the most hated on this team. People really undervalue what the guy brings to the floor.

puffyusaf#2 wrote:Man, I guess with the improvements the Lakers made it was going to be down to Blake being the most hated on this team. People really undervalue what the guy brings to the floor.

which are what exactly? Doesn't take alot of skills to bring up the ball and dump it to Kobe or Bynum.

nthydro wrote:

borri wrote:

Psychobroker wrote:

LooN3y wrote: he needs the balls in his hands to be effective.

Sometimes i need my balls in my hands to be "effective" too.

I hope it's your own...

Of course....the part about "my balls". Reading comprehension, a lost art. LOL.

Blake is going to benefit tremendously from watching Nash every night. I think that he will absorb a measure of Nashness by observational osmosis.

That's my theory and I'm sticking with it.

Blake played pretty darn well before he injured his ribs. As long as he's anywhere near that level i'd be ecstatic.

borri wrote:Blake played pretty darn well before he injured his ribs. As long as he's anywhere near that level i'd be ecstatic.

Yes...very true. He struggled adapting to the Tri. Once Blake was playing in a traditional offense, he was able to play more comfortably until the injury.

khmrP wrote:

puffyusaf#2 wrote:Man, I guess with the improvements the Lakers made it was going to be down to Blake being the most hated on this team. People really undervalue what the guy brings to the floor.

which are what exactly? Doesn't take alot of skills to bring up the ball and dump it to Kobe or Bynum.

He's a hard worker, good locker room guy, and a great teammate. He's one of the scrappier guys I've seen play for us in a while and that's always a plus.

He's still a good shooter, although not a great one. He's not a dribble penetrator, but he makes good decisions on the break. He finds cutters very well. And he's a decent defender for the point guard position.

khmrP wrote:

puffyusaf#2 wrote:Man, I guess with the improvements the Lakers made it was going to be down to Blake being the most hated on this team. People really undervalue what the guy brings to the floor.

which are what exactly? Doesn't take alot of skills to bring up the ball and dump it to Kobe or Bynum.

Funny the last time you said something like this I broke down each game you complained about and heard nothing again. It is remarkable how fickle Laker fans are and how shortsighted we can be.

It doemuch to bring up the ballsn't take ?

Yet, Lakers fans complain about the turnovers and careless ball handling from Fisher, Glock and Sessions (yes Blake had a few too at times). So which is it? Do we care he takes care of the ball or not?

He dumps it into Kobe or Bynum?

Fans constantly want roll players to know their ROLES yet when they do they complain. When Glock came in everyone praised the guy for being eager to shoot and willing to take the shots. Then they realized that the BIG DOGS weren't getting the touches they needed and the complaints started to kick in. Then its, WTF is the kid doing? Or how about the why is Fisher shooting anytime in a game outside of the last 3 seconds? Or maybe the Why the F isn't the gaurds getting the ball inside to DrewBeast so he can dominate? Was it not you same fans complaining that no one is getting the Bigs the touches they need? Of course it was but eh Blake isn't athletic and doesn't dunk so he must be garbage.

The issue I had with Blake last year was he wasn't aggressive enough on offense when we needed him to be. In the playoffs he got that way a bit but not enough. Yes, I thought he looked to pass to quickly like many have stated but he didn't kill our offense and he damn sure didn't step out of his position trying to do to much. He is a very good backup PG who gets in the mix, makes his man work and tries to get the primary player on the floor the ball like he is supposed to do.

Ahh screw it who cares about those things? Lets ship him out for a bonified chucker who thinks he should be starting.... anyone have Smush Parkers number?

^I prefer Chucky Atkins...

his 3fg % has gone from 37% to 33% and his overall fg% is sub 35% over his 2yr stint here....this "good shooter" stuff is all rep. As far as making the safe play and playing his role, thats fine but is it asking to much to expect a "lil bit" more? As D is concern I dont see it, he still gets lite by most PG, even Fisher got off shots with ease against him, the SG defense I ignore cause thats not his fault potato head thinks he can defend that position for god knows why.

gcclaker wrote:

borri wrote:Blake played pretty darn well before he injured his ribs. As long as he's anywhere near that level i'd be ecstatic.

Yes...very true. He struggled adapting to the Tri. Once Blake was playing in a traditional offense, he was able to play more comfortably until the injury.

His stats before the injury:
24:19 minutes/g
7.25 ppg
2.83 apg
1.92 rpg
0.5 stls pg
40 FG% (33/82)
35 3PT% (17/48)
57 FT% (4/7)
1.58 fouls pg
1.67 tos

Not bad numbers. I wanted to look them up after you guys brought them up. I mean, he'll see those minutes or a little less behind Nash this season. If he can contribute that... maybe one more assist per game considering he'll have much better assist options... That's enough for me. That's enough to win really.

gcclaker wrote:^I prefer Chucky Atkins...

hell lets roll with Jordan Farmar he would shoot as much as he could.

khmrP wrote:his 3fg % has gone from 37% to 33% and his overall fg% is sub 35% over his 2yr stint here....this "good shooter" stuff is all rep. As far as making the safe play and playing his role, thats fine but is it asking to much to expect a "lil bit" more? As D is concern I dont see it, he still gets lite by most PG, even Fisher got off shots with ease against him, the SG defense I ignore cause thats not his fault potato head thinks he can defend that position for god knows why.

His overall field goal percentage as a Laker is exactly 37% (211/574).

This "good shooter" stuff is in fact not all rep. He's been a good shooter as a Laker. His 3 point percentage as a Laker has been exactly 36% (126/351). That's not great, but it is good. We've all been excited about acquiring Meeks and he shot 37% from deep last season. Jamison shot 34% from deep last season (and has done so throughout his career) and we're excited about his spacing.

Like I posted on the previous page in spot up opportunities Blake has shot 36% or so from deep. That's not bad and that'll get the job done.

puffyusaf#2 wrote:

gcclaker wrote:^I prefer Chucky Atkins...

hell lets roll with Jordan Farmar he would shoot as much as he could.

farmar #'s from last season 46% from the field and 44% from 3's, took 8fga to Blake 5fga, not exactly "chuking" there

therealdeal wrote:

khmrP wrote:his 3fg % has gone from 37% to 33% and his overall fg% is sub 35% over his 2yr stint here....this "good shooter" stuff is all rep. As far as making the safe play and playing his role, thats fine but is it asking to much to expect a "lil bit" more? As D is concern I dont see it, he still gets lite by most PG, even Fisher got off shots with ease against him, the SG defense I ignore cause thats not his fault potato head thinks he can defend that position for god knows why.

His overall field goal percentage as a Laker is exactly 37% (211/574).

This "good shooter" stuff is in fact not all rep. He's been a good shooter as a Laker. His 3 point percentage as a Laker has been exactly 36% (126/351). That's not great, but it is good. We've all been excited about acquiring Meeks and he shot 37% from deep last season. Jamison shot 34% from deep last season (and has done so throughout his career) and we're excited about his spacing.

Like I posted on the previous page in spot up opportunities Blake has shot 36% or so from deep. That's not bad and that'll get the job done.

well I guess the standard of being known as "shooter" is pretty low these days than.

khmrP wrote:

puffyusaf#2 wrote:

gcclaker wrote:^I prefer Chucky Atkins...

hell lets roll with Jordan Farmar he would shoot as much as he could.

farmar #'s from last season 46% from the field and 44% from 3's, took 8fga to Blake 5fga, not exactly "chuking" there

3 field goal attempts per game is actually a lot. Farmar played in only 39 games last season and somehow shot the ball 315 times. Blake played in 53 games last season and only shot the ball 268 times. Somehow in 14 more games he shot the ball almost 50 less times than Farmar.

Chucking? I don't know. But he definitely shot the ball a hell of a lot more than Blake did.

khmrP wrote:

therealdeal wrote:

khmrP wrote:his 3fg % has gone from 37% to 33% and his overall fg% is sub 35% over his 2yr stint here....this "good shooter" stuff is all rep. As far as making the safe play and playing his role, thats fine but is it asking to much to expect a "lil bit" more? As D is concern I dont see it, he still gets lite by most PG, even Fisher got off shots with ease against him, the SG defense I ignore cause thats not his fault potato head thinks he can defend that position for god knows why.

His overall field goal percentage as a Laker is exactly 37% (211/574).

This "good shooter" stuff is in fact not all rep. He's been a good shooter as a Laker. His 3 point percentage as a Laker has been exactly 36% (126/351). That's not great, but it is good. We've all been excited about acquiring Meeks and he shot 37% from deep last season. Jamison shot 34% from deep last season (and has done so throughout his career) and we're excited about his spacing.

Like I posted on the previous page in spot up opportunities Blake has shot 36% or so from deep. That's not bad and that'll get the job done.

well I guess the standard of being known as "shooter" is pretty low these days than.

Oh come on now. Is that the best response you have, man? I provided some good evidence and you just give me a sarcastic response... No bueno, my friend.

I don't know what you are expecting really from a "shooter". If you're expecting over 40%, there were only 22 players in the entire league that shot that well from deep in 2012. And many of them shot muh less than Blake did. In fact of the top 15 guys, 9 of them shot under 100 threes (In fact 7 of them shot 60 or less). Would it be great if he shot better? Yes, of course. But he's a bench guy here for a reason. I don't know that anyone can realistically expect more from the guy.

therealdeal wrote:

khmrP wrote:

puffyusaf#2 wrote:

gcclaker wrote:^I prefer Chucky Atkins...

hell lets roll with Jordan Farmar he would shoot as much as he could.

farmar #'s from last season 46% from the field and 44% from 3's, took 8fga to Blake 5fga, not exactly "chuking" there

3 field goal attempts per game is actually a lot. Farmar played in only 39 games last season and somehow shot the ball 315 times. Blake played in 53 games last season and only shot the ball 268 times. Somehow in 14 more games he shot the ball almost 50 less times than Farmar.

Chucking? I don't know. But he definitely shot the ball a hell of a lot more than Blake did.

dont see it as a bad thing with those type of %, if Blake had that kind of #'s I wouldn't care if he shot it 10x a game. Anyways, I'm certainly not the kind to want a player on our team to do bad but I dont share any of your optimissim in regards to Blake, I hope he proves me wrong like Odom did, I hated his game and his #'s the during the 1st couple of seasons when we got him.

therealdeal wrote:

khmrP wrote:

therealdeal wrote:

khmrP wrote:his 3fg % has gone from 37% to 33% and his overall fg% is sub 35% over his 2yr stint here....this "good shooter" stuff is all rep. As far as making the safe play and playing his role, thats fine but is it asking to much to expect a "lil bit" more? As D is concern I dont see it, he still gets lite by most PG, even Fisher got off shots with ease against him, the SG defense I ignore cause thats not his fault potato head thinks he can defend that position for god knows why.

His overall field goal percentage as a Laker is exactly 37% (211/574).

This "good shooter" stuff is in fact not all rep. He's been a good shooter as a Laker. His 3 point percentage as a Laker has been exactly 36% (126/351). That's not great, but it is good. We've all been excited about acquiring Meeks and he shot 37% from deep last season. Jamison shot 34% from deep last season (and has done so throughout his career) and we're excited about his spacing.

Like I posted on the previous page in spot up opportunities Blake has shot 36% or so from deep. That's not bad and that'll get the job done.

well I guess the standard of being known as "shooter" is pretty low these days than.

Oh come on now. Is that the best response you have, man? I provided some good evidence and you just give me a sarcastic response... No bueno, my friend.

I don't know what you are expecting really from a "shooter". If you're expecting over 40%, there were only 22 players in the entire league that shot that well from deep in 2012. And many of them shot muh less than Blake did. In fact of the top 15 guys, 9 of them shot under 100 threes (In fact 7 of them shot 60 or less). Would it be great if he shot better? Yes, of course. But he's a bench guy here for a reason. I don't know that anyone can realistically expect more from the guy.

37% from the field overall is NOT what I consider a shooter, his 3pt% is fine cause thats the typical league avg. anyways.

khmrP wrote:dont see it as a bad thing with those type of %, if Blake had that kind of #'s I wouldn't care if he shot it 10x a game. Anyways, I'm certainly not the kind to want a player on our team to do bad but I dont share any of your optimissim in regards to Blake, I hope he proves me wrong like Odom did, I hated his game and his #'s the during the 1st couple of seasons when we got him.

Those percentages are also inflated because of the limited games he played. I'll give it to Jordan, he played well, and now that we're out of the Triangle I think he'd do well here. But there's no denying he shoots more than he should sometimes. Is that better than Blake's shooting less than he should sometimes? I don't know. I don't think so to be honest. I think they're both bad in their own ways. If there were a player that mixed Jordan's young explosiveness with Blake's savvy and grit... that guy'd be great.

khmrP wrote:37% from the field overall is NOT what I consider a shooter, his 3pt% is fine cause thats the typical league avg. anyways.

37% from the field isn't really that important. A shooter is defined by what he does away from the basket and really beyond the three point line. A scorer on the other hand wouldn't be very good if he shot 37% from the field and had no redeeming qualities.

Blake's 36% from deep is good. I think it's above average, but not great. Maybe a C+ or a B-. And just because I've been defending him doesn't mean I don't see all of his faults. He's not the greatest player for us to have backing up Nash, but it could be worse. All he needs is an outlook change, to be more aggressive, and he'd be a fine backup.

khmrP wrote:

puffyusaf#2 wrote:

gcclaker wrote:^I prefer Chucky Atkins...

hell lets roll with Jordan Farmar he would shoot as much as he could.

farmar #'s from last season 46% from the field and 44% from 3's, took 8fga to Blake 5fga, not exactly "chuking" there

Ahh the stats race. Realdeal already pointed out the particulars so I won't rehash that at all. Lets just talk about the little things besides Farmar playing less games and less minutes. He wanted to be a starter and considered himself well above his level of play thus he is going to take shots from Kobe, Drew (now Dwight) and Pau just because he feels he should. His decision making has always been suspect and, if memory serves me right, he never fed the ball into the post. WHich brings me to another often criticized point from Lakers fans; feeding the ball into the post. Who gets the guys the ball on our team? Who played the best with the cutters like Barnes? Who didn't force their game and just played how the team wanted? That would be Blake. Do you really think Farmar would come in and do that?

The elephant in the room you ask? He played on the NJ Nets and he was so good he is getting waived by the Hawks. Come on now, Blake was on the floor late in games because he does his job and isn't afraid of the moment. Hate is simply hate.

If Blake had hit that corner 3 would we have won that series? Would people look at Blake differently today...what a difference one shot could of made

puffyusaf#2 wrote:The elephant in the room you ask? He played on the NJ Nets and he was so good he is getting waived by the Hawks. Come on now, Blake was on the floor late in games because he does his job and isn't afraid of the moment. Hate is simply hate.

Blake was on the court cause Session forgot how to shoot. True stats are misleading at times, since these 2 players do different things for their teams, just to show you how you said "farmar would shoot more" well you were right, he did but he was justified for doing so. While Farmar did get hurt, its not like his production would've fallen off the cliff, the time he did play he still out produce Blake within the same range of minutes. As far as your other stuff, thats not pertinent to the conversation, what he wants vs. what he got and being waived by Atl has nothing to do with his overall production compared to Blake. IF blake could be waived w/o penalty like Farmar, I'm pretty sure Mitch wouldn't hesitate to do so.