Nash Discussion: No harmony, no chemistry, no system (159)

KeepBynum wrote:

revgen wrote:Not gonna happen. Why would any self-respecting PG want to play for Mike Brown?

To win a title.

Seriously? This made me laugh. Mike Brown and title don't mix my friend.

You sign him because it's one of the only veteran PG's out there that has Kobe's respect in terms of controlling the ball. Kobe would trust Nash, Nash would get Kobe open looks, Nash wouldn't defer and stand in the corner.

Already an upgrade. We've had crappy PG defense for years now, we weren't losing games this season in the playoffs because of shotty defense, it was because we relied on Kobe ISO in the 4th quarter way too much and got bitten by it over and over again by not scoring, while the other team was.

I'd pick him up and then I'd trade Pau to get players that could spread the floor for him. Or have a non-stop motor so Nash could find them for easy buckets.

Nash + Howard

can't see it happening

pound4pound1 wrote:can't see it happening

me neither, but if he would take mini mle I would probably do it. He isn't the perfect solution to our PG woes, but his offensive game goes a long way towards helping us out.

If CP3 would have worked well with Kobe at the offensive end, why not Nash? Both are excellent at getting the ball to someone with an open shot. I've salivated for years over Kobe becoming a true off guard with a real PG to get him the ball in the spots where he is most dangerous instead of Kobe expending energy all over the court. In other words, a real PG like CP3 or Nash could extend Kobe's effectiveness as Kobe goes into physical decline. A real PG would stretch the perimeter defense, they couldn't focus on Kobe. CP3 was that guy, but the Lakers got Stern'd. Nash isn't any worse defensively than Sessions and his offense is a lot better. At his age, he can only sign a 2 year deal. At mini-MLE, that's minimal risk to the team if Nash will take it. Amnesty Blake and we have our PG rotation. Sessions will still have a lot of minutes backing up Nash and could be Nash's understudy to take over the job when Nash retires.

borri wrote:Because Bynum and Pau are piss poor help defenders, Nash's D would be a HUGE liability.

Offensively, we'd be VASTLY improved. We don't need Nash to be the ball dominant guard. Just hit J's and 3's at the ridiculous percentages that he normally performs as.

All in all, it wouldn't work with Bynum....unless we get a really good defender at the 4 to replace Pau.

I disagree with the VASTLY improved on offense. Nash only gets open 3 pointers off of the chaos he creates with the shooters he's alway been surrounded by. He rarely shoots off screens or anything other than wide open 3's.... our offensive personnel won't produce those and you can lay off of him and sit in the lane and dare him to score 25 a night..... combine that with what he would give up on the other end and the NET wouldn't be any better than what we have.

I don't think we do a lot better with the Nash/CP3 style of pick and roll guard play.... not with Kobe on the team. I don't see Kobe wanting to wait for that to develop while standing at the 3 point line for a kick-out.... and Nash is useless without the ball in his hands..... D-Will, a more slashing style point guard that can go one on one as well would be a much better match to our personnel IMO.

LOSLAKERS wrote:Nash + Howard

if Howard happen 1st, I could see Nash taking the mini MLE. Sessions would be an ideal backup with a more fast paced 2nd unit, if he is willing to be a backup again.

Rooscooter wrote:

borri wrote:Because Bynum and Pau are piss poor help defenders, Nash's D would be a HUGE liability.

Offensively, we'd be VASTLY improved. We don't need Nash to be the ball dominant guard. Just hit J's and 3's at the ridiculous percentages that he normally performs as.

All in all, it wouldn't work with Bynum....unless we get a really good defender at the 4 to replace Pau.

I disagree with the VASTLY improved on offense. Nash only gets open 3 pointers off of the chaos he creates with the shooters he's alway been surrounded by. He rarely shoots off screens or anything other than wide open 3's.... our offensive personnel won't produce those and you can lay off of him and sit in the lane and dare him to score 25 a night..... combine that with what he would give up on the other end and the NET wouldn't be any better than what we have.

I don't think we do a lot better with the Nash/CP3 style of pick and roll guard play.... not with Kobe on the team. I don't see Kobe wanting to wait for that to develop while standing at the 3 point line for a kick-out.... and Nash is useless without the ball in his hands..... D-Will, a more slashing style point guard that can go one on one as well would be a much better match to our personnel IMO.

Dont think teams would leave Nash open for a second. Less doubles for Kobe and Drew = vast improvement on offense. Depending on who get for Pau or if Pau stays, the double will come from Ron's man. You place Ron at the right place on offense, Bynum won't see those constant doubles.

Also, Nash is a VASTLY superior passer to anyone who have on the team. Even in half court sets, he'll get Bynum the ball even if defenders are fronting him.

Not all about Nash's SUPERIOR shooting ability, but also the THREAT.

teams weakness is age of its core, lack of speed and defensive mentality.

Nash is a great player (still) but he is about to become real old.

pass.

^^the book on Nash is to make him a scorer and pack it in..... every time he's been deep in the playoffs it happens.... a lot like CP3. During the regular season, when you play a different team every night he excels, but when it slows down and you can plan for him it is a lot different.

I still believe that a slashing type point is the best for us..... not a plodding pick and roller..... But that's what these boards are for..... opinions.....

Also, let me add, that the last time we had good team spacing.....was when we had Space Cadet.

When you have a center in Bynum who can dominate if not constantly double teamed, you need shooters to space the floor. It isn't rocket science. HOU did it for Hakeem. See....D12 and ORL. We had shooters in Shaw, Horry, Fox for Shaq.

Ideally, trade Pau for a PF who can defend and hit a midrange shot.....Milsap and pieces?

Add Nash for cheaper, as he wants a ring....Bynum will average 25 and 12 next year...guaranteed.

Rooscooter wrote:^^the book on Nash is to make him a scorer and pack it in..... every time he's been deep in the playoffs it happens.... a lot like CP3. During the regular season, when you play a different team every night he excels, but when it slows down and you can plan for him it is a lot different.

I still believe that a slashing type point is the best for us..... not a plodding pick and roller..... But that's what these boards are for..... opinions.....

to me Nash has one thing we could ABSOLUTELY use which is his amazing shot.

He might very well be the best jumpshooter in the NBA.

I just don't think a ball dominant PG works next to Kobe. Kobe has played this way 16 years. You already see him scream at Sessions all the time and its one of the main reasons why Sessions isn't doing what he absolutely is capable of doing. At some point, its not other PGs, its just that they don't work well with Kobe.

Blake used to be a very good PG who was also capable to get 6-7 assists in a regular basis...now he barely gets 2-3. Sessions absolutely can get 8 apg on any other team except the Lakers if he plays 36 mpg.

Nash is a terrible fit for Kobe because Kobe is neither a good shooter nor a slasher anymore at this point of his career. He wants to post up or get ISO plays on the wing for a pullup J...in both cases Nash will be making horizontal passes around the arc and be rendered useless except for spacing the floor.

Rooscooter wrote:^^the book on Nash is to make him a scorer and pack it in..... every time he's been deep in the playoffs it happens.... a lot like CP3. During the regular season, when you play a different team every night he excels, but when it slows down and you can plan for him it is a lot different.

I still believe that a slashing type point is the best for us..... not a plodding pick and roller..... But that's what these boards are for..... opinions.....

That book was made when PHX was that great run and gun team, that lacked a potent superstar and stud bigman. Same with CP3. Those teams lacked guys who can get their own consistently. On the Lakers that book doesn't apply. Nash and CP3 were clearly the BEST players on their teams. See Lakers after Shaq and pre- Pau.....make Kobe the scorer and not let anyone else get involved.

Even when Nash played for DAL, more halfcourt, he wasn't the MVP player by a large margin....but he still shot the rock really well.

Slashing guard....what's the freaking point? When we lack shooters, the middle is clogged where's the room to penetrate and dish?

Nash makes Drew's life and Kobe's life a heck of alot easier.

borri wrote:Bynum will average 25 and 12 next year...guaranteed.

How can this be?...... He can't handle the double team, He's lazy, selfish, arrogant, entitled and just doesn't care..... You, of course, know that he is the sole reason for us losing don't you..... and the recession, unemployment, the reason for wrinkles, hunger in Africa and Ebola as well....... having a couple shooters won't change any of that.....

KB24 wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:^^the book on Nash is to make him a scorer and pack it in..... every time he's been deep in the playoffs it happens.... a lot like CP3. During the regular season, when you play a different team every night he excels, but when it slows down and you can plan for him it is a lot different.

I still believe that a slashing type point is the best for us..... not a plodding pick and roller..... But that's what these boards are for..... opinions.....

to me Nash has one thing we could ABSOLUTELY use which is his amazing shot.

He might very well be the best jumpshooter in the NBA.

I just don't think a ball dominant PG works next to Kobe. Kobe has played this way 16 years. You already see him scream at Sessions all the time and its one of the main reasons why Sessions isn't doing what he absolutely is capable of doing. At some point, its not other PGs, its just that they don't work well with Kobe.

Blake used to be a very good PG who was also capable to get 6-7 assists in a regular basis...now he barely gets 2-3. Sessions absolutely can get 8 apg on any other team except the Lakers if he plays 36 mpg.

Nash is a terrible fit for Kobe because Kobe is neither a good shooter nor a slasher anymore at this point of his career. He wants to post up or get ISO plays on the wing for a pullup J...in both cases Nash will be making horizontal passes around the arc and be rendered useless except for spacing the floor.

Forget the Nash you saw in PHX. Remember the NASH you saw in DAL. Not ball dominant at all....but still shot lights out with the rock. Don't forget, Nash's shot improved quite a bit since his DAL days.

Rooscooter wrote:

borri wrote:Bynum will average 25 and 12 next year...guaranteed.

How can this be?...... He can't handle the double team, He's lazy, selfish, arrogant, entitled and just doesn't care..... You, of course, know that he is the sole reason for us losing don't you..... and the recession, unemployment, the reason for wrinkles, hunger in Africa and Ebola as well....... having a couple shooters won't change any of that.....

Hope you aren't poking fun at me.....I'd be pissed if you are.

I have always said, Bynum suffers offensively because we lack shooters. You weren't here when i went ballistic that we let go of Space Cadet.

My problem with Bynum will be and will always be, his inability to give a ish consistently on the defensive side of the ball.

borri wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:

borri wrote:Bynum will average 25 and 12 next year...guaranteed.

How can this be?...... He can't handle the double team, He's lazy, selfish, arrogant, entitled and just doesn't care..... You, of course, know that he is the sole reason for us losing don't you..... and the recession, unemployment, the reason for wrinkles, hunger in Africa and Ebola as well....... having a couple shooters won't change any of that.....

Hope you aren't poking fun at me.....I'd be pissed if you are.

You are just about the last one I was "poking fun" at...... you laid out exactly what needs to happen.... shooters and the outcome if it did happen.... first sensible thing I've read today concerning Bynum......

JUST-MING wrote:I’d prefer Jason Kidd.

Wouldn't prefer him to Nash, but a great 2nd choice.

borri wrote:Because Bynum and Pau are piss poor help defenders, Nash's D would be a HUGE liability.

Offensively, we'd be VASTLY improved. We don't need Nash to be the ball dominant guard. Just hit J's and 3's at the ridiculous percentages that he normally performs as.

All in all, it wouldn't work with Bynum....unless we get a really good defender at the 4 to replace Pau.

Pau for Millsap + Hayward solves a few issues.

Have you seen how much Jason Kidd has regressed from last season? It's like he's not the same anymore.

Kidd, I think, would work better with our system than Nash, since Nash is so ball dominant while Kidd plays very well off the ball (maybe Nash can, too, but we'll never know).

Sadly, Jason Kidd is finally done, as his production has significantly dropped, and he's not getting younger.

No. He's old, too ball dominant, and too dependent on the pick and roll. He tends to run around the court until he finds an open shooter just like Jeremy Lin does now. That's why the Knicks want Nash to mentor Lin so he can learn from the master of the sacred run around the court technique and be even easier to be game planned against. That style of play only really works if you are surrounded by shooters which Nash has had his entire career. Even his big men were shooters like Dirk in the past and Channing Frye now. He will NOT be able to do this with a legit post up big man.

IMO, Andre Miller would be a better choice. He is younger and does a great job at managing shot distribution in half court sets. He is also crafty with his ways of getting to the basket and will completely dominate smaller guards with his post play. He is also one of the best lob passing PG which can come in handy when Bynum is fronted. We could use his court savy and ability to see and EXPLOIT mismatches. With the way Miller and Roy clashed in Portland, I expect Miller will be able to NOT always defer to Kobe on every possession.

Ideally Nash running around the court would open up things for Kobe as Nash is a pretty good scorer even at his age because he can still shoot and drive.

Nash anywhere is effective. I dont understand why people think it wouldnt work...have you seen the guy play? He's a phenomenal passer and has eyes everywhere, its amazing to watch the passing regardless of assist numbers (which would be guaranteed 10+ APG). Kobe would find open looks along with MWP for 3's and if we get a new PF for cuts/layups/dunks aswell as the same for Drew.

I think if you convince him the right way he would come. Players 3PT% would go up instantly. Slashers would find the ball going from their hands into the rim seamlessly. Bigs would find easy layups/dunks. Just because of how good Nash is.

BUT although i believe Bynum will average career highs in points, rebounds, and blocks next year, i do think if we got Howard then Nash would be more willing to come to the Lakers. Just b/c Howard fits better with Nash.

^where? yes, nash can work
^when? no, can't beat age at some point, especially with chronical back issues. If Phoenix wasn't working wonders with their staff, Nash would probably be retired already.