Steve Nash Discussion: Retiring; Lakers Disabled Exception

Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby Finwë on Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:33 am

King of Clutch wrote:At least wait until it plays out before you become so pessimistic. Damn. We already have the entire world wanting us to flop, the least we can do as the only supporters of this team is show some faith.

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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby Snakell Beast on Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:46 am

FabFourLakers wrote:Just keep the hope Snakell, you've been here a while and it's weird for me to hear you say these things, I had to do a double take on what you said because I was shocked. I appreciate your honesty and I totally hear what you're saying but man, if that were to happen, you're talking about the biggest disappointment of all time in ALL of sports if this team doesn't even make the playoffs (cuz 45 wins won't get you the 8th seed in the west, esp not this year). And can you imagine the media crucifying Kobe for this? His legacy will be tarnished if THIS team with THIS much talent can't even make the PLAYOFFS. I just don't see that ending for us. I don't. It CAN'T happen and you have to start believing that!!! Come on Snake you got it in you!


I have some hope, and some rational belief, that this team still has a ceiling (with 56 games remaining) where they could figure it out and go 46-10 (or maybe even 48-8) the rest of the season. That would give us 58-60 wins on the year and probably a 2-4 seed and some home court.

I also can see us, even realistically, going 40-16 the rest of the way and finishing 5th or 6th with a record of 52-30. Also, if we are healthy and in a rythm going into the playoffs, I believe we are equipped with the TALENT to win in anyone else's building and that we will be a VERY tough out in 7 games. I am just trying to temper my expectations...since that is the main cause of my (and our) misery over the past 7 weeks. We just need to be aware of the way things are TRENDING so that we are prepared if it happens, and have the right sense of urgency and pressure to place on the team.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby RetroNikes on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:20 am

Snakell Beast wrote:
RetroNikes wrote:There's things you don't understand about basketball.. Nash shot over 50% from the field last year - Do you actually think that's not going to help this Laker team? Remember, he's still one of the best pick and roll players in the game today.

Nash doesn't have to guard the likes of Russell Westbrook or Tony Parker, that's why the Lakers have multiple defenders on this team. Did Fisher Guard Rando in 2010? No. Did Fisher Guard Westbrook all the time when the Lakers played the Thunder in 2009 playoffs? Or what about Metta World Peace guarding and containing Andre Miller in last year's playoffs? Every team has a weakness and the Lakers can simply hide Nash if they need to by putting him someone else, like either a spot up shooter.

Saying that Nash is going to slightly improve this team is ridiculous. The Lakers have yet to see how Steve Nash can run this team. He didn't do it in the pre-season and he didn't do it the first game of the season. He was playing a lot off the ball and now the Lakers are going to see exactly what he can do, a system thats built for his style of play. This will benefit Kobe's legs for the rest of the season and allowing Howard to get easy baskets around the rim.

Yes, this will help the team out a lot and not slightly.


Disagreement is not a lack of understanding. I'm not failing to acknowledge Steve Nash's history of floor spreading shooting ability, I am contending that as players get older, their shots don't fall as much anymore...especially if they are injured or tired, both of which will describe Nash for the bulk of the remainder of this season. Second, unless Nash is going to score 20+ points per game while dishing out 10+ assists, he won't make much of a difference on this team.

If he plays about 28 minutes per game (a very realistic number for someone his age coming off a serious injury) and produces 9 or 10 points (on about 44% shooting) and 6 or 7 assists (what I think he is most likely to produce with this team) that will hardly catapult this team into playoff contention...let alone championship contention. We are a slightly less than average team. Get over it. I am probably way more devastated and disappointed, to come to grips with that reality, than anyone else on here.

I am not saying that Nash won't help the team or be effective. I am saying something far worse...I am saying that we seriously overrated this team to begin with. I am saying that we are headed for, at best, a 45-37 record this season, and at worst a 35-47 record. We are simply too old and slow defensively, too young and inexperienced, or washed up and untalented, on the bench...and too fundamentally unsound (FTs, TOs) offensively. One man CANNOT fix all those problems. We must deal with it.



It's not about a disagreement, it's about you not making any sense.

Nash shot over 50% from the field, the second best of his career and you're talking about as players age their shots stop falling? Or what about Jason Kidd? He's older than Nash yet his one of the best 3 point shooters in the league. You can't argue with results and that will certainly help this team out a lot. Nash is not going to fix all the Laker problems but he sure will fix a lot. The Lakers were in so much mess at the the start of the season, so it's difficult to see how good this team really is. Yes, this team needs to get a little more athletic and that's where Mitch comes in. If this team needs improvement and Pau Gasol doesn't fit with this team, he can simply trade him for younger players in the back court to get this team the needed help. Nash simply getting looks for other teammates can go along way, and that will not be just a slight improvement. The Lakers are not getting a lot of pick and roll plays and they're not getting Dwight Howard easy looks at the basket and Nash can fix that.

What I'm seeing now is that this offense is much better for this team, unlike the princeton offense. For the first time, Nash will be able to run the show and we might get to actually Nash make Dwight Howard more comfortable around the basket as he gets easy looks. I'm confident in the Lakers that they will get this team on track, even if they have to do a trade to fix it.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby lakerfan2 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:29 am

You just don't inserts stats and act like that's how you base the success of a returning/addition of a player.

Take into consideration ball movement, chemistry, turnovers, experience. Face it, a lot of our games were lost due to the fact that we don't have a point guard to take care of the ball, find our players for easy buckets. Duhon has a done a better than expect job, Morris has been hitting the 3 ball and playing decent defense.

Right now, we're working with Kobe ball, and inside out with Dwight. That's not going to get it done. We can't live on the 3, even though we're a top 10 team percentage wise, but we need more easy buckets. Missed shots count as turnovers too and our offense is too perimeter based right now. Dwight isn't getting his usual 3-4 dunks a game.

That's what Nash brings. His defense is his offense. The ability to keep possession, get the team easy buckets, and develop the chemistry our team desperate needs.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:53 am

lakerfan2 wrote:You just don't inserts stats and act like that's how you base the success of a returning/addition of a player.

Take into consideration ball movement, chemistry, turnovers, experience. Face it, a lot of our games were lost due to the fact that we don't have a point guard to take care of the ball, find our players for easy buckets. Duhon has a done a better than expect job, Morris has been hitting the 3 ball and playing decent defense.

Right now, we're working with Kobe ball, and inside out with Dwight. That's not going to get it done. We can't live on the 3, even though we're a top 10 team percentage wise, but we need more easy buckets. Missed shots count as turnovers too and our offense is too perimeter based right now. Dwight isn't getting his usual 3-4 dunks a game.

That's what Nash brings. His defense is his offense. The ability to keep possession, get the team easy buckets, and develop the chemistry our team desperate needs.


Good post. The key, at least IMO, is during the end of games when games get tight in the 4th quarter with 2-3 minutes left; we know Dwight is not a reliabe option in the 4th quarter. Pau has had a tendency to tighten up as well; so, the only person you could go too is Kobe.

Nash adds another option out there because he can shoot from anywhere on the floor, create his own shot for himself & others, and shoot freethrows. So, when we face the Spurs, Thunder, Heat, we now have two legitimate options that we can work through...
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby lakerfan2 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:11 am

^ What I want to see down the stretch is a Kobe/Nash pick and roll.

Forcing Nash's man, a PG to guard Kobe, or usually the guys would double Kobe, leaving either A. Kobe with a PG on him to attack or B. Open lane for Nash to the paint.

Not sure why this set isn't often either. It works, they did it tons of times with success with Duhon/Blake.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby easyguy on Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:06 pm

lakerfan2 wrote:^ What I want to see down the stretch is a Kobe/Nash pick and roll.

Forcing Nash's man, a PG to guard Kobe, or usually the guys would double Kobe, leaving either A. Kobe with a PG on him to attack or B. Open lane for Nash to the paint.

Not sure why this set isn't often either. It works, they did it tons of times with success with Duhon/Blake.



I think they would prefer to do PnR with a center or power forward, because they are usually slow and lazy so more chance of an easy score. Guard and guard PnR are harder I think because they can usually switch.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby John3:16 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:12 pm

KareemTheGreat33 wrote:
JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:
Snakell Beast wrote:Not going to make much of a difference. Nash is just not the player he was even 3 years ago. Our offense will improve slightly, and our defense will drop off a cliff. I think we should trade Steve Nash for pieces. He doesn't fit our roster, and he isn't the solution going forward.


This might be the worst post I've ever read


No, not even close. Some guy also posted that not liking Mike Brown was racist... :freak2:


:man10: :man10: :man10:

Well played sir.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby Finwë on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:20 pm

Mike Trudell ‏@LakersReporter
1/2: Mike D'Antoni said @SteveNash looked good today, meaning he didn't show ill effects from yesterday's full practice.
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby Doc Brown on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:30 pm

Mike Trudell ‏@LakersReporter
And so, the good news for the Lakers - as of right now - is Nash said he'll "for sure" be starting at PG on Christmas Day.
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More


And boom goes the dynamite.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby S.R.05 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:33 pm

so i'm guessing that despite the thread title they're still resting him for tomorrow right?
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby XXIV on Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:42 pm

Showtime.Revival.05 wrote:so i'm guessing that despite the thread title they're still resting him for tomorrow right?


That seems most likely.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby therealdeal on Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:06 pm

Showtime.Revival.05 wrote:so i'm guessing that despite the thread title they're still resting him for tomorrow right?

Game time decision based on how he feels is how I'm reading it.

You don't want to rush, but at the same time if he feels up for it then it's time that he gets involved. Christmas Day vs. New York is a high task after a long time off.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby karacha on Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:15 pm

He said it all defends on how he feels tomorrow morning. Xmas for sure, maybe tomorrow.p
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby KBJelleyBean24 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:18 pm

karacha wrote:He said it all depends on how he feels tomorrow morning. Xmas for sure, maybe tomorrow.

I really hope he feels good enough tomorrow to play. Golden State is tough and we need all the wins we can get at this point.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby FabFourLakers on Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:49 pm

Snakell Beast wrote:
FabFourLakers wrote:Just keep the hope Snakell, you've been here a while and it's weird for me to hear you say these things, I had to do a double take on what you said because I was shocked. I appreciate your honesty and I totally hear what you're saying but man, if that were to happen, you're talking about the biggest disappointment of all time in ALL of sports if this team doesn't even make the playoffs (cuz 45 wins won't get you the 8th seed in the west, esp not this year). And can you imagine the media crucifying Kobe for this? His legacy will be tarnished if THIS team with THIS much talent can't even make the PLAYOFFS. I just don't see that ending for us. I don't. It CAN'T happen and you have to start believing that!!! Come on Snake you got it in you!


I have some hope, and some rational belief, that this team still has a ceiling (with 56 games remaining) where they could figure it out and go 46-10 (or maybe even 48-8) the rest of the season. That would give us 58-60 wins on the year and probably a 2-4 seed and some home court.

I also can see us, even realistically, going 40-16 the rest of the way and finishing 5th or 6th with a record of 52-30. Also, if we are healthy and in a rythm going into the playoffs, I believe we are equipped with the TALENT to win in anyone else's building and that we will be a VERY tough out in 7 games. I am just trying to temper my expectations...since that is the main cause of my (and our) misery over the past 7 weeks. We just need to be aware of the way things are TRENDING so that we are prepared if it happens, and have the right sense of urgency and pressure to place on the team.


I know man, I totally get where you're coming from. I've never been this quiet about a Lakers season EVER. All my annoying laker hater/ clippers fan buddies are not talking too much ish YET, but you can feel it from them with each bad loss that we have....you know they're just WAITING for us to crumble completely. I think EVERYBODY is waiting to see what happens when Nash comes back before they COMPLETELY write them off. I'm just going to hope and pray that this team doesn't let us down...its been a tough 26 games, but I think we're about to see what this team is made of in the next month. If we stay at .500 by the end of January, I'll start to believe what you're saying. I just hope they take us all out of our misery...
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby dj vitus on Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:57 pm

I'm trying to not get too giddy when Nash gets back. Lots and lots of ground to make up in the Western Conference. :man5: We need to start climbing the standings immediately and show that we have a winning mentality instead of letting other random teams get easy transition baskets and run us out of the building. Hopefully this Nash + D'Antonio reunion will be the best thing since sliced bread. :jam2:
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:19 am

Games should be at least more enjoyable to watch with Nashty Nash coming back .... more ball movement and nice assists ...

These latest two seasons have not been fun to watch for Lakers fans regardless of the games results
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby Lakerjones on Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:21 am

I can't wait for Nash to return, period. But I'm confused over the headline with the thread title, where was it reported that he's actually playing tomorrow? Everything I've seen or heard said it was going to be the XMAS game. Seems like the headline should be updated to Tuesday.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby Snakell Beast on Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:47 am

RetroNikes wrote:It's not about a disagreement, it's about you not making any sense.


You can disagree with my prediction about the level of value Nash adds to the team when he comes back, but to say I am not making any sense is not only an unnecessarily insulting thing to say, it also completely misrepresents the situation.

YOU might think it makes no sense for me to say that age and offensive role, when combined with an ADMITTEDLY slow recovery from a very painful and serious structural injury, should cause a drop in FG%... but I believe it to be true. If you can point me to some statistical analysis that conclusively disproves my contention, or some data that at least shows a statistically significant trend in favor of your argument, then I might change my perception...otherwise, it will continue to be my opinion...regardless of your insults.

The fact is, no one knows for sure A. What Nash has left in the tank, especially after a broken bone in his leg and 2 months of inactivity, and B. What Nash's aggregate effect will be on this team's defense, turnovers, free throws and win/loss record for the remainder of the season.

We can all make predictions, and posture and insult and brag at each other...but not one person here KNOWS anything right now. I am choosing to be sober with my expectations of Nash's effect on the team. I know it is apples to oranges, but his play early in the year left MUCH to be desired.

I assume he will improve in a system he knows so well...but how much more room for improvement is there for NASH, when fatigue and pain, offensive role, roster dynamics, lack of continuity and intense pressure will be the primary influential variables in the equation of Lakers success for the rest of the year???

I don't necessarily see a huge improvement. There are just too many fluid unknowns right now...but like I said before, TIME WILL TELL. I HOPE I AM DEAD WRONG.

PS - I agree with LJ! The thread title should be changed to reflect the new info.
The End is nigh. Time for a total Cut and Shuffle. Kobe contract was a mistake...time to avoid making more. The future is here, whether we want it to be or not. An era is over, but for the death rattle, and it's time for the cycle to begin anew. Growth and change are scary and painful, but alas...nothing worth achieving comes easily.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby khmrP on Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:06 am

would still like to see him play Sat...dont want him coming back against a solid NY team rusty, we saw what happened with Pau's shot against Cha.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby Helljumper on Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:20 am

https://twitter.com/KevinDing

KEVIN DING ‏@KevinDing

As I said on @TWCSportsNet, bet on him playing. RT @ThatKidMarco_: @KevinDing so Nash will play tomorrow against the Warriors?


KEVIN DING ‏@KevinDing

It's simple logic that if he feels up to it, Nash will want to get some game action in before the big stage of Christmas vs. Knicks.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby Finwë on Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:03 am

:jam2:
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby Finwë on Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:15 am

If Stevie starts against the warriors and we look good I'm dancing naked on the streets !!
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion (Saturday Return Expected! pg102)

Postby GoldenKnight on Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:24 am

Finwë wrote:If Stevie starts against the warriors and we look good I'm dancing naked on the streets !!


I will join you :man10:
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