Steve Nash Discussion: Epidural Nation

Snakell Beast wrote:This team is not a contender, and I don't see Steve Nash making enough of a difference for this team to be a playoff team anytime soon...if ever. I REALLY WANTED this team to succeed. I am still CHEERING for them every game. I live and die by the success and failure of this team...FOR 17 YEARS NOW. I am just being realistic. Nash is 39 years old in a month. He CANNOT play adequate defense AND be the entire engine of the offense AND maintain his shooting ability AND lead the team emotionally. I don't see it happening.

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:

Snakell Beast wrote:Not going to make much of a difference. Nash is just not the player he was even 3 years ago. Our offense will improve slightly, and our defense will drop off a cliff. I think we should trade Steve Nash for pieces. He doesn't fit our roster, and he isn't the solution going forward.

This might be the worst post I've ever read

Helljumper wrote:

Snakell Beast wrote:This team is not a contender, and I don't see Steve Nash making enough of a difference for this team to be a playoff team anytime soon...if ever. I REALLY WANTED this team to succeed. I am still CHEERING for them every game. I live and die by the success and failure of this team...FOR 17 YEARS NOW. I am just being realistic. Nash is 39 years old in a month. He CANNOT play adequate defense AND be the entire engine of the offense AND maintain his shooting ability AND lead the team emotionally. I don't see it happening.

So Nash was able to do all that a few months ago with a significantly less talented Phoenix Suns team, but he won't be able to do it now even though he has the most talent he's ever played with and his offensive load will be reduced? Gotcha.

KareemTheGreat33 wrote:No, not even close. Some guy also posted that not liking Mike Brown was racist...

Helljumper wrote:"So Nash was able to do all that a few months ago with a significantly less talented Phoenix Suns team, but he won't be able to do it now even though he has the most talent he's ever played with and his offensive load will be reduced? Gotcha."

Snakell Beast wrote:Not going to make much of a difference. Nash is just not the player he was even 3 years ago. Our offense will improve slightly, and our defense will drop off a cliff. I think we should trade Steve Nash for pieces. He doesn't fit our roster, and he isn't the solution going forward.

RetroNikes wrote:There's things you don't understand about basketball.. Nash shot over 50% from the field last year - Do you actually think that's not going to help this Laker team? Remember, he's still one of the best pick and roll players in the game today.

Nash doesn't have to guard the likes of Russell Westbrook or Tony Parker, that's why the Lakers have multiple defenders on this team. Did Fisher Guard Rando in 2010? No. Did Fisher Guard Westbrook all the time when the Lakers played the Thunder in 2009 playoffs? Or what about Metta World Peace guarding and containing Andre Miller in last year's playoffs? Every team has a weakness and the Lakers can simply hide Nash if they need to by putting him someone else, like either a spot up shooter.

Saying that Nash is going to slightly improve this team is ridiculous. The Lakers have yet to see how Steve Nash can run this team. He didn't do it in the pre-season and he didn't do it the first game of the season. He was playing a lot off the ball and now the Lakers are going to see exactly what he can do, a system thats built for his style of play. This will benefit Kobe's legs for the rest of the season and allowing Howard to get easy baskets around the rim.

Yes, this will help the team out a lot and not slightly.

Snakell Beast wrote:

RetroNikes wrote:There's things you don't understand about basketball.. Nash shot over 50% from the field last year - Do you actually think that's not going to help this Laker team? Remember, he's still one of the best pick and roll players in the game today.

Nash doesn't have to guard the likes of Russell Westbrook or Tony Parker, that's why the Lakers have multiple defenders on this team. Did Fisher Guard Rando in 2010? No. Did Fisher Guard Westbrook all the time when the Lakers played the Thunder in 2009 playoffs? Or what about Metta World Peace guarding and containing Andre Miller in last year's playoffs? Every team has a weakness and the Lakers can simply hide Nash if they need to by putting him someone else, like either a spot up shooter.

Saying that Nash is going to slightly improve this team is ridiculous. The Lakers have yet to see how Steve Nash can run this team. He didn't do it in the pre-season and he didn't do it the first game of the season. He was playing a lot off the ball and now the Lakers are going to see exactly what he can do, a system thats built for his style of play. This will benefit Kobe's legs for the rest of the season and allowing Howard to get easy baskets around the rim.

Yes, this will help the team out a lot and not slightly.

Disagreement is not a lack of understanding. I'm not failing to acknowledge Steve Nash's history of floor spreading shooting ability, I am contending that as players get older, their shots don't fall as much anymore...especially if they are injured or tired, both of which will describe Nash for the bulk of the remainder of this season. Second, unless Nash is going to score 20+ points per game while dishing out 10+ assists, he won't make much of a difference on this team.

If he plays about 28 minutes per game (a very realistic number for someone his age coming off a serious injury) and produces 9 or 10 points (on about 44% shooting) and 6 or 7 assists (what I think he is most likely to produce with this team) that will hardly catapult this team into playoff contention...let alone championship contention. We are a slightly less than average team. Get over it. I am probably way more devastated and disappointed, to come to grips with that reality, than anyone else on here.

I am not saying that Nash won't help the team or be effective. I am saying something far worse...I am saying that we seriously overrated this team to begin with. I am saying that we are headed for, at best, a 45-37 record this season, and at worst a 35-47 record. We are simply too old and slow defensively, too young and inexperienced, or washed up and untalented, on the bench...and too fundamentally unsound (FTs, TOs) offensively. One man CANNOT fix all those problems. We must deal with it.

King of Clutch wrote:At least wait until it plays out before you become so pessimistic. Damn. We already have the entire world wanting us to flop, the least we can do as the only supporters of this team is show some faith.

FabFourLakers wrote:Just keep the hope Snakell, you've been here a while and it's weird for me to hear you say these things, I had to do a double take on what you said because I was shocked. I appreciate your honesty and I totally hear what you're saying but man, if that were to happen, you're talking about the biggest disappointment of all time in ALL of sports if this team doesn't even make the playoffs (cuz 45 wins won't get you the 8th seed in the west, esp not this year). And can you imagine the media crucifying Kobe for this? His legacy will be tarnished if THIS team with THIS much talent can't even make the PLAYOFFS. I just don't see that ending for us. I don't. It CAN'T happen and you have to start believing that!!! Come on Snake you got it in you!

Snakell Beast wrote:

RetroNikes wrote:There's things you don't understand about basketball.. Nash shot over 50% from the field last year - Do you actually think that's not going to help this Laker team? Remember, he's still one of the best pick and roll players in the game today.

Nash doesn't have to guard the likes of Russell Westbrook or Tony Parker, that's why the Lakers have multiple defenders on this team. Did Fisher Guard Rando in 2010? No. Did Fisher Guard Westbrook all the time when the Lakers played the Thunder in 2009 playoffs? Or what about Metta World Peace guarding and containing Andre Miller in last year's playoffs? Every team has a weakness and the Lakers can simply hide Nash if they need to by putting him someone else, like either a spot up shooter.

Saying that Nash is going to slightly improve this team is ridiculous. The Lakers have yet to see how Steve Nash can run this team. He didn't do it in the pre-season and he didn't do it the first game of the season. He was playing a lot off the ball and now the Lakers are going to see exactly what he can do, a system thats built for his style of play. This will benefit Kobe's legs for the rest of the season and allowing Howard to get easy baskets around the rim.

Yes, this will help the team out a lot and not slightly.

Disagreement is not a lack of understanding. I'm not failing to acknowledge Steve Nash's history of floor spreading shooting ability, I am contending that as players get older, their shots don't fall as much anymore...especially if they are injured or tired, both of which will describe Nash for the bulk of the remainder of this season. Second, unless Nash is going to score 20+ points per game while dishing out 10+ assists, he won't make much of a difference on this team.

If he plays about 28 minutes per game (a very realistic number for someone his age coming off a serious injury) and produces 9 or 10 points (on about 44% shooting) and 6 or 7 assists (what I think he is most likely to produce with this team) that will hardly catapult this team into playoff contention...let alone championship contention. We are a slightly less than average team. Get over it. I am probably way more devastated and disappointed, to come to grips with that reality, than anyone else on here.

I am not saying that Nash won't help the team or be effective. I am saying something far worse...I am saying that we seriously overrated this team to begin with. I am saying that we are headed for, at best, a 45-37 record this season, and at worst a 35-47 record. We are simply too old and slow defensively, too young and inexperienced, or washed up and untalented, on the bench...and too fundamentally unsound (FTs, TOs) offensively. One man CANNOT fix all those problems. We must deal with it.

lakerfan2 wrote:You just don't inserts stats and act like that's how you base the success of a returning/addition of a player.

Take into consideration ball movement, chemistry, turnovers, experience. Face it, a lot of our games were lost due to the fact that we don't have a point guard to take care of the ball, find our players for easy buckets. Duhon has a done a better than expect job, Morris has been hitting the 3 ball and playing decent defense.

Right now, we're working with Kobe ball, and inside out with Dwight. That's not going to get it done. We can't live on the 3, even though we're a top 10 team percentage wise, but we need more easy buckets. Missed shots count as turnovers too and our offense is too perimeter based right now. Dwight isn't getting his usual 3-4 dunks a game.

That's what Nash brings. His defense is his offense. The ability to keep possession, get the team easy buckets, and develop the chemistry our team desperate needs.

lakerfan2 wrote:^ What I want to see down the stretch is a Kobe/Nash pick and roll.

Forcing Nash's man, a PG to guard Kobe, or usually the guys would double Kobe, leaving either A. Kobe with a PG on him to attack or B. Open lane for Nash to the paint.

Not sure why this set isn't often either. It works, they did it tons of times with success with Duhon/Blake.

KareemTheGreat33 wrote:

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:

Snakell Beast wrote:Not going to make much of a difference. Nash is just not the player he was even 3 years ago. Our offense will improve slightly, and our defense will drop off a cliff. I think we should trade Steve Nash for pieces. He doesn't fit our roster, and he isn't the solution going forward.

This might be the worst post I've ever read

No, not even close. Some guy also posted that not liking Mike Brown was racist...

Mike Trudell ‏@LakersReporter
1/2: Mike D'Antoni said @SteveNash looked good today, meaning he didn't show ill effects from yesterday's full practice.

Showtime.Revival.05 wrote:so i'm guessing that despite the thread title they're still resting him for tomorrow right?

Showtime.Revival.05 wrote:so i'm guessing that despite the thread title they're still resting him for tomorrow right?

karacha wrote:He said it all depends on how he feels tomorrow morning. Xmas for sure, maybe tomorrow.

Snakell Beast wrote:

FabFourLakers wrote:Just keep the hope Snakell, you've been here a while and it's weird for me to hear you say these things, I had to do a double take on what you said because I was shocked. I appreciate your honesty and I totally hear what you're saying but man, if that were to happen, you're talking about the biggest disappointment of all time in ALL of sports if this team doesn't even make the playoffs (cuz 45 wins won't get you the 8th seed in the west, esp not this year). And can you imagine the media crucifying Kobe for this? His legacy will be tarnished if THIS team with THIS much talent can't even make the PLAYOFFS. I just don't see that ending for us. I don't. It CAN'T happen and you have to start believing that!!! Come on Snake you got it in you!

I have some hope, and some rational belief, that this team still has a ceiling (with 56 games remaining) where they could figure it out and go 46-10 (or maybe even 48-8) the rest of the season. That would give us 58-60 wins on the year and probably a 2-4 seed and some home court.

I also can see us, even realistically, going 40-16 the rest of the way and finishing 5th or 6th with a record of 52-30. Also, if we are healthy and in a rythm going into the playoffs, I believe we are equipped with the TALENT to win in anyone else's building and that we will be a VERY tough out in 7 games. I am just trying to temper my expectations...since that is the main cause of my (and our) misery over the past 7 weeks. We just need to be aware of the way things are TRENDING so that we are prepared if it happens, and have the right sense of urgency and pressure to place on the team.