it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby hollywood swinger on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:33 am

Either because Gatsby is too old or just doesn't have the mindset he can't be full game attacker at the pg with #24. Nash can't be the true attack running mate Kobe needs at pg that he has never had his entire career. This team can't go anywhere without 2 attackers from the perimeter ala : Lebron/Wade, Durant/RW, Dwill/JJ, Parker/Ginobili ect... you have to have 2 perimeter players who can score and constantly put pressure on other team the whole game and we don't have that. Nash at this age or mindset can't do it now and no way will he for the next 2 years.
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby TIME on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:42 am

Here's a hint. The problem is not how many points we are scoring, but how many we are allowing.

So, no, can't agree with your premise.
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby Doc Brown on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:45 am

How many games does the opposing team need to score 110+, while we are scoring 100+, before everyone realizes the problems are at the other end of the court?
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby revgen on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:51 am

^And that's with no Pau, no Hill, and no D12.
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby k0i308v3 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:57 am

Doc Brown wrote:How many games does the opposing team need to score 110+, while we are scoring 100+, before everyone realizes the problems are at the other end of the court?


Agree with both of the statements. Yours and the one above, however I do agree to some point with the first post. Kobe really needs to tone down on the shots, be a bit more passive. He is taking to many shots and I can see the well no one can make shots on our team argument, but his shooting isn't nescesarry. I wish he would put in the effort on the Defensive end rather than taking 22+ shots. Same with MWP while he has played good those shots would much better be suited for Nash or Dwight in the post. Our Defensive end SUCKS plain and simple but the Offense is so plain n people stand around so much I don't think anyone outside of maybe Nash & Kobe look like they are into Mike's system.
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby k0i308v3 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:05 pm

revgen wrote:^And that's with no Pau, no Hill, and no D12.


Hill is out for the season so no help from him, while he was playing good and deserved more minutes that Pau. Pau I don''t see him helping at all on the Defensive end to slow can't jump anymore I watched a replay of his alley oop from Kobe and its pretty sad for someone so tall how little he gets of the ground, on top of that too soft and weak. D12 is the only one that can really impact the Defensive end at all but again it is a team effort and our rotations are slow, late don't exist half of the time, I really see us not improving at all untill the players on this roster realize it and really put in the effort, or we make drastic changes.
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby GoldenKnight on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:24 pm

It was only a matter of time before people started to blame Nash...

All I have to say is stop being ridiculous & realize our obvious problem is defense & not offense.
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby kenzo on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:26 pm

Lol. I guess none of the real PG's would work with Mamba.
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby 432J on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:27 pm

mindblowing how some of you think that this teams problem is offense
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby k0i308v3 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:29 pm

GoldenKnight wrote:It was only a matter of time before people started to blame Nash...

All I have to say is stop being ridiculous & realize our obvious problem is defense & not offense.


Dont think it's Nash, he fits in fine under this system and yes our problem is defense for sure, but if anything it is guys not wanting to sacrafice something for the better of the team mainly being Kobe I just don't think him and Nash fit because of that. Kobe want's and needs the ball to get up points and honestly is shooting too much, he was suppose to help free up Nash as well something I really don't see, and that might be because our post players are not doing much. Again our main issue is defense, but our chemistry we just look like a sloppy team on both ends.
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby revgen on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:34 pm

k0i308v3 wrote:
revgen wrote:^And that's with no Pau, no Hill, and no D12.


Hill is out for the season so no help from him, while he was playing good and deserved more minutes that Pau. Pau I don''t see him helping at all on the Defensive end to slow can't jump anymore I watched a replay of his alley oop from Kobe and its pretty sad for someone so tall how little he gets of the ground, on top of that too soft and weak. D12 is the only one that can really impact the Defensive end at all but again it is a team effort and our rotations are slow, late don't exist half of the time, I really see us not improving at all untill the players on this roster realize it and really put in the effort, or we make drastic changes.


I think "realizing it" requires more emphasis in practice. Rumors are that the players are only spending 15-20 min's on defense during practice.
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby borri on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:45 pm

432J wrote:mindblowing how some of you think that this teams problem is offense
:man10:


Ain't that the truth. But historically, CL'ers worry alot more about O than D.
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby k0i308v3 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:55 pm

revgen wrote:
k0i308v3 wrote:
revgen wrote:^And that's with no Pau, no Hill, and no D12.


Hill is out for the season so no help from him, while he was playing good and deserved more minutes that Pau. Pau I don''t see him helping at all on the Defensive end to slow can't jump anymore I watched a replay of his alley oop from Kobe and its pretty sad for someone so tall how little he gets of the ground, on top of that too soft and weak. D12 is the only one that can really impact the Defensive end at all but again it is a team effort and our rotations are slow, late don't exist half of the time, I really see us not improving at all untill the players on this roster realize it and really put in the effort, or we make drastic changes.


I think "realizing it" requires more emphasis in practice. Rumors are that the players are only spending 15-20 min's on defense during practice.


Yeap, and that is on the coaching staff. Mike D is not the greatest his history has shown it, so no suprise. However you would think we would put in more effort this late in the season during games. Players just do not rotate at times which is mind blowing to me. The other night 2.7 sec in the 2nd quater KD got open and wide open on a screen while Kobe and Clarck both switched off and let him get the 3, that even if coached comes down to comunication and execution.
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby Jellincon on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:25 pm

k0i308v3 wrote:
GoldenKnight wrote:It was only a matter of time before people started to blame Nash...

All I have to say is stop being ridiculous & realize our obvious problem is defense & not offense.


Dont think it's Nash, he fits in fine under this system and yes our problem is defense for sure, but if anything it is guys not wanting to sacrafice something for the better of the team mainly being Kobe I just don't think him and Nash fit because of that. Kobe want's and needs the ball to get up points and honestly is shooting too much, he was suppose to help free up Nash as well something I really don't see, and that might be because our post players are not doing much. Again our main issue is defense, but our chemistry we just look like a sloppy team on both ends.


Kobe doesn't need to have the ball to be effective. Earlier in the season when Kobe was super efficient, he was getting a lot of his points off of moving without the ball.

IMO for the Kobe & Nash combo to be most effective on offense, there either needs to be a structured offensive system in place (Princeton, Triangle, ect...) that forces off ball movement or Nash needs to learn how to say "no" to Kobe.

Contrary to popular belief, Nash doesn't have to always give the ball to Kobe every time he asks for it. It's Nash's job to make sure everyone is involved on offense since he's the PG. When Kobe starts straying away from the flow of the offense, Nash needs to do what Fisher used to sometimes do which is ignore Kobe and get the ball to other guys so they stay engaged. Doing this allowed Kobe to settle down a little and help him get back within the flow of the offense.
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:34 pm

We're talking about offense , offense man .. not the D when it matters .. we're talking about offense man
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby hollywood swinger on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:51 pm

TIME wrote:Here's a hint. The problem is not how many points we are scoring, but how many we are allowing.

So, no, can't agree with your premise.


well i wish we had a multiple quote option so i could reply to everyone who said the same thing you did above but i will just quote you to make my point. the problem is the other teams best players who are attack perimeter players only have to play on 1 side of the court and that is their offensive side of the court. they rest on defense when playing us. they send some no important offensive player or players to help and double kobe and then when they come on offense they are fresh. Nash isn't making guys play both ends of the floor by having to run around and guard him because he is being aggressive hence those same attackers are fresh the entire game on offense and kill us.
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:58 pm

That's one way to get your post count.
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby Armani on Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:33 pm

^ You can say that again. :man11:

But to address the topic, yeah... the Laker offense is 6th in offensive efficiency. Offense is not the problem. Not. The. Problem.
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby Jon on Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:39 pm

Your logic makes no sense swinger, that same theory can be applied to every team, every player, and make an argument about energy being conserved. The problem is defense, the problem is defense, and the problem is defense. These are NBA players their conditioning and energy is FAR different than what you think it is. I seriously don't think Nash not being an offensive threat gives the opposing team a GREAT advantage in conserving energy to score 77467262+ more points on us. IT'S THE DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE. Your logic and theory does not make sense and is wrong.
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby karacha on Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:42 pm

Stop posting the same thing four times in a row. Once is enough, we've seen it.
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby TIME on Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:56 pm

hollywood swinger wrote:
TIME wrote:Here's a hint. The problem is not how many points we are scoring, but how many we are allowing.

So, no, can't agree with your premise.


well i wish we had a multiple quote option so i could reply to everyone who said the same thing you did above but i will just quote you to make my point. the problem is the other teams best players who are attack perimeter players only have to play on 1 side of the court and that is their offensive side of the court. they rest on defense when playing us. they send some no important offensive player or players to help and double kobe and then when they come on offense they are fresh. Nash isn't making guys play both ends of the floor by having to run around and guard him because he is being aggressive hence those same attackers are fresh the entire game on offense and kill us.


Go back and read your own original post. You changed your argument (which still isn't the reason why we are losing).

Here are the numbers for our last 11 losses:

We are scoring 105 ppg. That's plenty to win games in the NBA.

We are giving up 113 ppg.

That's ridiculously bad. Our D sucks. Therefore we suck.
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby BadCoaching on Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:34 pm

The issue is tempo as much as defense. They run hand in hand with a team like this. You can control the tempo through your offense, it's why Phil was able to take slow teams and win. Lakers don't control the pace of the game. These coaches are horrendous.
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby hollywood swinger on Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:01 pm

karacha wrote:Stop posting the same thing four times in a row. Once is enough, we've seen it.


you telling me or asking me? :man3: so now its a limit on replies inside of threads? don't be a power hungry mod :man10:
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby hollywood swinger on Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:03 pm

TIME wrote:
hollywood swinger wrote:
TIME wrote:Here's a hint. The problem is not how many points we are scoring, but how many we are allowing.

So, no, can't agree with your premise.


well i wish we had a multiple quote option so i could reply to everyone who said the same thing you did above but i will just quote you to make my point. the problem is the other teams best players who are attack perimeter players only have to play on 1 side of the court and that is their offensive side of the court. they rest on defense when playing us. they send some no important offensive player or players to help and double kobe and then when they come on offense they are fresh. Nash isn't making guys play both ends of the floor by having to run around and guard him because he is being aggressive hence those same attackers are fresh the entire game on offense and kill us.


Go back and read your own original post. You changed your argument (which still isn't the reason why we are losing).

Here are the numbers for our last 11 losses:

We are scoring 105 ppg. That's plenty to win games in the NBA.

We are giving up 113 ppg.

That's ridiculously bad. Our D sucks. Therefore we suck.


yea i'm wrong thats why on time warner worthy and horry keep saying nash should be more aggressive. they say the same thing because yes we score a ton of points but we don't make the other team work on defense which compounds our suck defense.
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Re: it sucks but Nash just doesn't work with #24

Postby karacha on Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:30 pm

hollywood swinger wrote:
karacha wrote:Stop posting the same thing four times in a row. Once is enough, we've seen it.


you telling me or asking me? :man3: so now its a limit on replies inside of threads? don't be a power hungry mod :man10:


I'm telling you. You posted four identical posts in a row. You don't see them now because I deleted three of them.
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