System/Personnel Thread

System/Personnel Thread

Postby trodgers on Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:21 am

After watching Jason Kidd, at 39 years old, fire out of the gates for what looks like his best season since the mid 90s, I've been doing some thinking.

It is clear that we are doing some things wrong, just flat out wrong. The answer seems to be finding the appropriate balance between the system we're running and the personnel we have. It seems like we won't change the system, because we wouldn't have brought on D'Antoni if we wanted anything other than uptempo (we could have gone with the triangle, arguably the best slow-it-down, halfcourt offense). Any perhaps we shouldn't, as we've already done that this year, once going to Princeton and once going away from it. But being cash strapped and having only a somewhat undesirable aging, injured Pau Gasol as principal trade bait, we seem unable to make significant personnel moves.

So let's use this thread to consider just the question of how best to use the current roster we have. What should be each player's role in this system?
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Re: System/Personnel Thread

Postby trodgers on Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:30 am

Some thoughts...

Kobe - the one we saw to start the season, not a passive creator, but someone who was looking for the best shot available, shot a career best on FG-3pt-FTs. He has been good this season, and I'd like to see him operate more without the ball. He has proven an ability to get open looks while moving without the ball.

Howard - does not look to be a dominant offensive player. Seems to need to be spoon fed passes in scoring position right now. I do love the activity on D though. Why is he rebounding so poorly?

Pau - maybe it's just injuries, but he can't hit jumpers. When he doesn't score, he seems to pout. Then his D goes from so-so to terrible. Do we have to try to maximize his time on court WITHOUT Howard in order to get the most from him?

MWP - I think that MWP is having his best season since coming to LA. He's shooting well from 3, is hitting his FTs, and his individual D is mostly good. Maybe letting him launch threes is a good way to get the most from his game.

Nash - No idea. I just want to see this guy play. We can't rely on him to solve our defensive issues with his defense, but we MIGHT be able to lean heavily on his offensive game to get people motivated again and buying in on the defensive side of the court.
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Re: System/Personnel Thread

Postby thkthebest on Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:01 am

trodgers wrote:After watching Jason Kidd, at 39 years old, fire out of the gates for what looks like his best season since the mid 90s, I've been doing some thinking.

I am seriously going to miss some of these older players. Kobe is the best SG at his age. Duncan is arguably the best big right now. If Dirk weren't injured, he'd probably be the best PF. They all have some of the best fundamentals and highest BBIQ in the league.

trodgers wrote:Why is he rebounding so poorly?

Well, Dwight just had a 20, 16, and 18 rebounding game. Kind of odd timing. Lol. I wouldn't say he's rebounding "poorly" because he is averaging over 12 a game, but he's not in a rebounding position a lot of times because he's helping out on defense so much.

trodgers wrote:Pau - maybe it's just injuries, but he can't hit jumpers. When he doesn't score, he seems to pout. Then his D goes from so-so to terrible. Do we have to try to maximize his time on court WITHOUT Howard in order to get the most from him?

Pau's best minutes have come at the center position next to Jamison so I'm going to say yes. Hill/Dwight clog the lane too much for Pau.

Pau at PF: 40.6 eFG%, 16.6 points per 48
Pau at C: 60.5 eFG%, 23.1 points per 48
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Re: System/Personnel Thread

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:11 am

The system is completely wrong for our personnel. This is probably the slowest and most unathletic team in the NBA and we are running an up tempo style? What is going on here? If anything, we should be a half-court team and run when the opportunity arises but not look to run just for the sake of running. We need to contain the youngers legs of this league by slowing things down, not trying to run with them.

Our biggest assets are our size and post up players. I think Pau should be the #1 focus down low followed by Howard. I know that won't sit well with most but Pau is the better offensive player in the post. Him taking 18 footers all day is not utilizing his potential. Howard should be more of a roamer. Picking up missed shots and getting put backs. He will rack up 20 points easily just by doing that but doubt he will be happy being the 2nd option down low. But i think that will maximize the potential of this team.

I really think it starts there. If we get down who our main dogs are in this offense, we can rally around that and have a direction of what we are offensively. And when Nash comes back, we can also run the P&R. So our offense should be based on getting our bigs involved with Pau as top dog down low and Howard as second fiddle and clean up man along with the P&R. That gives us identity and direction.

Not to mention, we have a guy named Kobe in the perimeter to bail us out if the clock runs down. But our offense should go through our bigs first, just as it did during our championship years.
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Re: System/Personnel Thread

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:48 am

Whaddya guys talking about? This coach and system are a PERFECT fit for our personnel. Our front office even told us so - they said we don't think this team has the right personnel for the triangle, we think Mike Antoni's uptempo system is the right one.

How can you guys even question that? You guys must not be Laker fans. I mean, having two seven footers and an aging backcourt: the only obvious system you should do is run and gun. Outscore the opponents with more possessions than they have. After all we're much younger and more athletic than the teams at the top of the food chain like OKC and Miami.

Oh wait . . . umm . . . .

But don't dare to question the wisdom of the front office that brought you Rudy T and Mike Brown. And those hires ended up so well after all.
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Re: System/Personnel Thread

Postby therealdeal on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:11 am

I have no real problem with the system concept, just the way it's being executed. Uptempo doesn't mean running a lot necessarily, it means pushing the ball up the floor earlier in the clock to try to take advantage of early scoring opportunities. There's more fast breaks, sure, but that's good for the team. I feel like we haven't had more than 5 fast break points a game since 2010.

Our personnel can fit the offense, but we've got to heal up and we've got to think differently. Gasol needs to be near the rim, right? Well do what most of us said in the summer and limit his time next to Howard. You put him out there with his running mate Kobe Bryant and you surround those guys with athletes and hustlers. We only have a couple: Meeks and Hill. I think a lineup of Meeks, Kobe, Artest, Hill, Gasol can run, but it's very effective in half court sets. You have good spacing and good movement, and with two guys that can be inefficient you have an all-out rebounder and a savvy defender in Artest. This unit has the most continuity also from before and are familiar with each other.

The second lineup you take advantage of is Nash, Meeks, Ebanks, Jamison, Howard. This unit can run the floor since all of these guys being good athletes (sans Nash, but he's the captain) and when they hit half court sets they can run pick and roll with the two best options the league has in those situations. You have good spacing with those 3 with Ebanks filling in the Hill role and moving around, finding the open spots.

Then you can put all the superstars in to end games and using their overwhelming talent to work off of each other. The ball still goes into Kobe's hands when the game is tight anyway. Might as well have 2 great rebounding options in there.

But this is the only way that I can see the Lakers taking advantage of their roster and taking advantage of the players we have. If they run the rotations this way then I can see us keeping Gasol around, but if not then they might as well let him go.
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Re: System/Personnel Thread

Postby therealdeal on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:12 am

And it's not as if either of those teams can't run. Both of those lineups have personnel in them that can push the tempo effectively at times.
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Re: System/Personnel Thread

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:22 am

^^^

I don't have a problem with pushing the pace once in a while to take advantage of the D not being set but to make an up tempo style your identity does not make sense with this team. More shot attempts mean more fast break opportunities for the opposition. That means more back and forth action and we just don't have the legs for that. We need to limit the action and slow the game down. We almost accomplished this against OKC last year by using our bigs and slowing things down. It almost worked but OKC proved to be the superior team.
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Re: System/Personnel Thread

Postby therealdeal on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:26 am

If you have the right person running the show, you're not just running the ball and creating opportunities for other teams to score easily. That's why we have Steve Nash, he just isn't playing yet. When he comes back, he'll create easier looks and get guys open shots that they should hit. Bang, bang.

The most disturbing part is our tendency to allow teams to create transition opportunities on an inbounds play. That's unacceptable no matter what style we're playing in.

And the way that I am talking about playing isn't fast breaks, it's just probing for early opportunities. That means when we get the ball, find Nash quickly, and have him move the ball up the floor. One or two guys will be sprinting down, the other two running but measured. Nash probes, sees if he can find an open shot, and if not, we pull back out and run the ball through Kobe/Pau/Howard in the post or go to a p&r with Howard/Gasol. That's a faster pace, but it's still a reasonable pace for professional athletes.
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